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On the topic of "Broadband."
Merovingi
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regular
"Report: Cable companies facing big bandwidth crunch"
I saw this article over at Ars Technica (by way of Slashdot) and it got me thinking: is the U.S. really that behind when it comes to broadband internet access?
Also, what sort of challenges are the cable and telecom companies facing when it comes to rolling out broadband everywhere-- something that even politicians are starting to address in their campaigns. I'd also like to hear about how Net Neutrality and IPTV play into this mess. Finally, what do you think the future of data/information sharing is, and how do you think our society is going to change because of it (good or bad)?
Edit: This doesn't have to be about broadband in the U.S. Discussion of international broadband access (wireless included) is encouraged as well.
(I don't really make it a habit to make new threads, and I don't do so lightly. I've been putting a lot of thought into the subject and I'd REALLY love to hear more about what you guys have to say on the subject.)
Discuss!
I saw this article over at Ars Technica (by way of Slashdot) and it got me thinking: is the U.S. really that behind when it comes to broadband internet access?
Also, what sort of challenges are the cable and telecom companies facing when it comes to rolling out broadband everywhere-- something that even politicians are starting to address in their campaigns. I'd also like to hear about how Net Neutrality and IPTV play into this mess. Finally, what do you think the future of data/information sharing is, and how do you think our society is going to change because of it (good or bad)?
Edit: This doesn't have to be about broadband in the U.S. Discussion of international broadband access (wireless included) is encouraged as well.
(I don't really make it a habit to make new threads, and I don't do so lightly. I've been putting a lot of thought into the subject and I'd REALLY love to hear more about what you guys have to say on the subject.)
Discuss!
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Merovingi on
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I live in Australia, in a reasonably large city (the only bigger city in my state is Sydney). I'm on dialup because wired broadband is not available to me and the telcos in this country thinks I'm going to pay $110 PER MONTH for wireless 512k broadband with a 3 gigabyte limit. Satellite is subsidised for me.. and works out to be the exact same price except with a ridiculous installation fee.
I admit this has little to do with your topic and I didn't read what you linked (although I've read up on it before) but I just thought you might like to know how much worse it could be :P
I'm currently paying $40CDN for 1.5 megabits, 20 GB limit, and am switching from DSL to cable to A) ditch the telco I hate so much, and b) pay $45CDN for 10 megabits, and a 50 GB limit.
But, I'm in Canada. So I'm basically contributing nothing at all.
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The USA actually has it pretty good when it comes to internet service. Most companies provide relatively cheap dsl or cable with no down/up limits. Yes it can be hard to get good service out in the middle of nowhere but the country is just so big it's hard to expect absolute service everywhere.
Though really once it gets to that point you aren't going to see some huge change in civilization. Everything is still going to be the same regardless of whether or not you can get internet access everywhere.
I never asked for this!
Down here it's being heavily pushed because the largest telco, Telstra, just rolled out this massive wireless network they call NextG (because its based on enhanced 3G technologies, so it's apparently faster). They really seem to think people want speed over capacity, the plans are 200mb, 1g and 3g, the service is being marketed at Joe Sixpack, and as far as I can tell, is only useful for those who travel alot and need access / are rich and want it for kicks. Joe Sixpack can probably get wired broadband at his house for 1/4 of the cost and 4x the download limit.
I'm sorry for going off topic but the poor state of telecommunications in Australia shits me off intensely
To be somewhat on topic though, couldn't this bandwidth problem be lessened if that buyout of the newly freed spectrum goes ahead?
No, that has a lot do with the topic. I'm not just interested in hearing about U.S. broadband access..I'm looking for discussion on broadband access worldwide. Your situation does make what the U.S. has seem a lot more acceptable, though.
Ugh, download/upload limits are the bane of the internet. That needs to die, fast.
Is that true, though?
I thought that the cable and telecom companies are stuck in their massive infrastructures (though, mostly out of greed) and access to higher speeds isn't as easy as it sounds. Wouldn't it require massive upgrades to said infrastructure in order to increase bandwidth and speeds? That would mean higher rates, not lower rates I would think.
According to this article from I, Cringely, the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) puts the U.S. in the "middle of the pack among developed countries," and even behind a few developing countries as well. Is that accurate?
Cringely believes that one of the reasons the U.S. is behind is because of our dual-infrastructure set-up. We have both telecom AND cable competing for internet access whereas most other countries have their service provided through telecom infrastructure. I wonder if that will ever actually help us.
I don't know where wireless will take us. I think maybe the lack of security compared to wired might keep it back, but I don't really know if that's true or not.
Why is Australia so difficult when it comes to data infrastructure? I know you guys pay through the ass when it comes to imported goods because of shipping, but would something like that apply to bandwidth and such? I suppose laying all that cable out there might.. but I dunno.
So does Japan. You can get 100Mbps+ connections for less than $30 or so. Damn. I guess S. Korea is just as good, if not better.
Be happy.
The tax here is about 30% too, and the cost of goods is about 20-40% higher after exchange rates.
I'd say the infrastructure problem in Australia has to do with the fact that the landmass is, for the purposes of this discussion, similar in size to the mainland US, but only has 20mil people on it. So to roll out a similar network to what's in the US would have crappy returns, hence the high prices. Although if you live in the big city (sydney, melbourne.. we have two!) you can get up to about 24mpbs I think.
The original phone network is copper and wasn't designed for data, I guess. My phone exchange is enabled for broadband, I'm just too far from it. The government stipulates that any communications company in Australia MUST be able to provide 19.2kpbs of data throughput. I firmly believe this number should be raised to 64kpbs.
There are technologies that allow the range of broadband to be extended, the name escapes me now, miniDSlams or something, and Telstra is rolling them out in the 'rural' areas because they are subsidised by the government out there. Since I'm metro, it's not subsidised, so they won't put the device in. I've looked it up and the things only cost about $8000.
I used to live in Japan where I had access to outrageously fast internet and coming back to Australia was a real kick in the teeth :P
Additionally there are 4 people in my house who use the internet regularly, which apart from splitting 56k four ways, means we have a dedicated phone line for the dialup, and because we don't have a dialup modem/router combo, we have a gateway computer running all the time acting as our router, sharing the connection. So between line rental, dialing costs, and running an extra computer no one uses constantly, I most likely pay more for my 56k than the average Australian is paying for their broadband. (Unless they got sucked into the afformentioned wireless network)
It always amazes me how the US got stuck in Cable limbo. Lay down some fiber optic lines for the good of consumers and companies.
Edit: For reference. Ahem. SWEDEN, FUCK YEAH!
I'm lucky I have "Unlimited" 10mbit Cable though. I say "Unlimited" because it's Comcast, and I'm sure everyone's already heard about their 220 GB download cap, which may shift up or down mind you. So nobody really knows what the number actually is.
I know a lot of people out there are screwed with 4GB-20GB limits. This shit needs to die.
Yeah. I live in the country's biggest fucking city and currently I'm paying $40 for a wireless broadband connection that rarely reaches downloads faster than 25kb/s. We're about to install a phone line ($300) and go for one of the faster providers around (iiNet) who will charge $70 for a phone line plus broadband with a 6gb limit.
...long story short, Australia sucks at pretty much everything. Our dollar may be hanging around the us$0.85 mark, but when you're actually here, it's good for nothing. Not in telecommunications, not in consumer electronics, games, media... nothing.
Also I tihnk they hire Rohaq.
Who can afford to build a nationwide fibre to the house network? Telstra? Why would they do that when they'd be forced to open it up to their competitors? I also suspect that, given the importance of internet access, Telstra would have to charge quite a low rate to competitors for access - so again, pretty small incentive for them.
Another issue is the international data connection between Australia/NZ and the rest of the world - I believe that especially in NZ's case it is rather expensive - and given how much of your day to day surfing requires international access, well, there is part of the cost. Sucks to be a WOW player with that letency eh? Oceania servers my ass.
There isn't really a simple or cheap answer for Australia or NZ sadly, and even less so for those living in the country, or small rural areas.
I suggest checking http://www.whirlpool.net.au/ for your ISP and checking.
As for me, $AU100 per month for a 100gb download limit and 1.5mb/s connection. Download Caps: Serious Business.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
I think it all changed when carphone warehouse started offering free broadband as long as you used them as your landline provider, since then things have got a lot cheaper. I'm now paying £10 a month for 16Mb broadband from Sky, though you do need to be a Sky TV subscriber but i already had Sky so its not a problem. I also live less than half a mile away from the exchanges so always get good speeds so all is good.
On the good side, there are 2 things coming to the US that should help with our internet speeds:
Fiber - it seems that it's starting to spread faster than DSL and with a much cheaper cost for bandwidth.
WiFi - With the auction of the newly opened spectrum it's hoped that it will be used for high-speed internet for rural areas that don't have access to cable or DSL or fiber.
Personally, I'm surprised the internet has come as far as it has with all of the restrictive types of connection worldwide.
Yes, I think you're view is more realistic than randombattle's. A company, typically, absolutely will not upgrade any of it's technology until it is obsolete. This goes for pretty much any company. Especially big ones where it is damn near impossible to get a proposal past the gate if it costs any amount of money and doesn't immediately make ten times what it will cost to implement. It's pretty shortsighted, but then most directors are just worried about what next years annual report will say. Blowing hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure will make the annual report look awful, even if it does mean big payoffs in ten years time when all the other companies suddenly realise they need that infrastructure as well and are all frantically upgrading while the company that upgraded scoops up a lion's share of the market. That payoff in ten years time doesn't translate to an easy end-figure to present to the shareholders in April next year.
Of course, the exception is when the investment in new infrastructure results in significant and immediate cost-of-business savings, such as upgrading a factory to be more efficient and thus require less staff. I'd say that the IPTV solution potentially sounds like that sort of upgrade because it drastically reduces bandwidth usage without requiring lots of extra cable laying. From the sounds of things it would just require alterations to the way things like TV are piped and the home-user boxes that decode the signal. I suspect that would be cheaper than digging up all the existing cable and laying fibre, even if you were just laying the fibre over the existing cable. That might mean you could put more customers on the same cable, charge a premium for even faster bandwidth speeds or larger allowances or simply allow you to sell more HD channels over your existing cables. All of which essentially translates to 'more money, now'. Whether customers need or want that yet is maybe the reason why it isn't being done yet.
What bothers me about broadband in Australia isn't the speeds, it's how there's always a cap on your bandwidth... as far as I've seen anyways. Also, your phone system is asinine. I'm afraid to use the phone in my apartment because of how much money it would cost me. I'm just used to paying 18 a month and being able to make as many local calls as I want for however long I want to talk. I can't believe people put up with this.
Also, John Howard = lolz.
PSN: TheSuperVillain
God YES!
We had a 20/10gb limit (dl/ul) here on a 7 Mbit line, and we were tired of that limit, so we decided to go for the other plan, which is more expensive, but provides us with 10 Mbit and unlimited DL and UL. Yesterday, I received a letter from these crooked assholes (Vidéotron) telling me that starting October, my "unlimited" connection will become a 100gb limit (the 100gb being dl+ul), with absolutely no drop in price.
I can't believe the nerve of these pieces of shit. In the letter, they say "which should amply satisfy your needs"... WHAT?
Combine the DL and UL of last month and I did 176gb.
But the alternative is Telus, where if I want a second device to connect to the internet, I'd have to call them and register the MAC address of the NIC so they can authroize it. No thank you.
Also up in Canada.
I ring them up and ask them what the deal is. They said that while there are unlimited downloads with our connections, there is also a fair use policy in place. The manager explains to me that it is a community broadband programme and that for all of us to be downloading so much, is unfair to others as it takes up all the speed. I agree with him, and tell him that a friend and I only download very late at night, from around 2am onwards if we are downloading anything. He says that the engineers are working out a way to give everyone the bandwith they require, and that because I am downloading much more than everyone else, they may upgrade me to a seperate business line that will have me connecting at the same speed, but will give me truly unlimited downloads. The price for that is to pay an extra €40 a month. I talk with my brother about it, and we agree to split the price between us. I ring Ardmore back and they say to wait a fortnight, to see if something can be sorted out without us having to pay more.
It's been three weeks now, and the engineers are still working, apparently. I may have to go the business route after all, but the official word won't come until next week. A friend of mine, who is too far to get the signal from Ardmore, has gone through the phone line route with Eircom's extended reach. His connection, supposedly a 1mb, is more like 512k. Instead of downloading at 120k or so, he usually only manages to download at 30k with a connection that constantly craps out. He has a 10GB download limit that he has no way of breaching due to the slow speed and constant disconnections.
I think I'll be glad to take the business option on my side, but as you can tell, the state of broadband in Ireland is atrocious. And Sweden and Japan have 100mb, unlimited connections :x
Nothing's forgotten, nothing is ever forgotten
. . and had to go back to dial up as there were no other options where I moved to. Man, that sucked so bad. I really feel for anyone who doesn't have decent broadband options. A co-worker got satellite broadband, which seemed to have decent speeds when I checked it out, but the lag time was horrible (at least, at that time), so I didn't bother with that. Fortunately the flood gates opened in my neighborhood after that, and I was able to get back onto cable, at the same speeds I believe, that I was getting before. Things were back to normal . .
. . .then they started offering FiOS in my neighborhood, which I of course went to, and never looked back. 20/5 with no limits (as of yet), $50 a month (I believe it's $45 since I have TV through them as well) and I couldn't be happier. It may not be the speeds some other countries have, but I have no complaints at all about it . .
There isn't so much a lack of fiber in the US as there is a lack of fiber going direct to consumers. During the dot com bubble a whole lot of fiber got laid, and was never really made use of, not to it's real potential, at least.
And yeah, they're working on it. I have FiOS at my home, and I enjoy it.
Contrast that to the US where pretty much everything you want to talk to is, well, already here. Nowhere near as much of a need to send data over an under-sea fiber cable, and running fiber municipally/cross-country is comparatively dirt-cheap. Sure, you still need to send data overseas, but it's comparatively far less often then Australia would need to, so the costs will balance out easier.
It's pretty fascinating actually... Neal Stephenson (either you know who he is, or you need to read his books five minutes ago) wrote an interesting article about undersea fiber called Mother Earth Mother Board that's probably slightly dated at this point, but really goes into the details.
While I was googling for that, another interesting article came up about Austrailia's bandwidth situation - see this article for more info.
As far as US vs. Scandinavian bandwidth, I think we just have a far older infrastructure that companies wanted to leverage, vs. what I'm betting is an entirely new infrastructure being put in place in, say, Sweden. We're catching up slowly, but we will catch up as companies prepare for the future and start rolling out mo' fiber.
Sort of unlimited, in that if I exceed 40GB between 6pm and midnight in any given month, they start traffic shaping between those times. Only ever hit it once, and everything still works as normal (web, ftp, voip, etc.) except bittorrent downloads.
I'm pondering switching to Be unlimited (24 Mb/s), but I've heard mixed reports, and they've just been bought by O2.
Yeah, Verizon is the main proponent on bringing Fiber to your house, but I think that only applies to the N.E. of the U.S. at the moment. I'd love FiOS but I also can't wait for the pricing to go down.
We had dial-up till 2000 when we then signed up with Brighthouse (then, TimeWarner) RoadRunner cable service. I've had 0 complaints. We do live in a suburban residential area, and I don't know if it's because there aren't many other subcribers, but it's pretty quick. I believe we have a 7Mbps connection with unlimited up/down for about $50 but I'm not exactly sure on the specifics. I can't/don't complain too much; especially after seeing what you Aussies have to deal with. Man, that blows.
I'd definitely like to see the bandwidth increase and rates lower, though.
Portions of Florida have FiOS deployed to them. If Verizon is not available as a local phone carrier in your area though, you aren't in one of them, unfortunately. .
Yes. Yes, it is. When it comes to broadband and cell phones, the US is pretty much stuck in the bronze age.
Actually, I only have 30. :P
(For $25 per month. No limits.)
I live in a rural part of the U.S. and the only way I can get broadband is through a satellite connection. While this is way better than a dialup connection (which maxes out at about 22k because of the crappy phone lines) the fact that data has to go up to a satellite and back down to earth again gives me a latency of over a second in most cases... which means online vidjagames are all but out.
My family pays $40 a month for 1.5Mbps DSL from Telus. The pathetic bandwidth has not improved at all in eight years, but the monthly fee has gone up by a dollar or two. It has a 50GB/month traffic limit, but they don't enforce it. Luckily, the local cable company is a small mom-and-pop outfit, which offers 5+Mbps connections and unlimited traffic. They also don't pull shit that major ISPs like Telus/Rogers/Shaw do, like throttling torrents and blocking pro-union websites. I intend to switch to the cable as soon as I get around to migrating my parents to Gmail.
Now, some fucking fiber would be nice, but I think I can put up with 5 megabits for the time being.