Sangokushi Taisen DS

Dracil

I'll let the videos do the talking first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfnQwSnSbqc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7iQubyJwsM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqg-rX1LsEY

What is it? The first two videos are from the arcade version, the first one is a fight commentary video that shows how it's actually played with the table, the second is a bigger screen recording of a game, and the last one is what it's like on the DS.

Ok, but what is it really about? Basically, the game is a CCG/RTS arcade game ported onto the DS set in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms/Records of Three Kingdoms era (三國演義 and 三國志 respectively). Before the game starts, you select a group of cards representing generals and their army that have a combined cost of up to 8 (costs vary between 1-3/card), set them up on the board, select a special ability to use in the battle (such as increasing power, reducing recovery time, restoring troops, etc.). The game then begins, and the objective is to siege down the enemy fort before your own falls. Every card also has its own special ability that can be used which uses up your morale (think of it as a constantly regenerating mana bar). There are also 6 different troop types each with their own advantages and disadvantages (for example, spearmen get a row of spears in front of them when not in battle that does damage to enemies that touch it, while cavalry get a blue aura when moving that reduces projectile damage, increases speed, and does charge damage on contact, but will get massive penalty damage if it touches an enemy spearmen's row of spears).

To play on the arcade, you need to first pay $5 for a starter deck. After that, it's something like $3/game (-$1 every time you win in a row but minimum of $1), but you also get a random card after every game as well no matter if you win or lose. And every game is ranked. It's like an automated CCG tournament. In comparison, the DS version is a one-time cost of (currently, as there's a deal) $29.90 + shipping on play-asia.com and it also comes with 5 exclusive DS-only cards, as well as an actual card you could use at the arcades.

Of course, playing on the DS has its quirks. For one, you only have one hand (your stylus) for moving cards around since the DS doesn't support multi-touch, but the same limitation goes for everyone else so it's not too big a deal. The graphics are not as refined of course and the screen is tiny, and it's hard to pick out cards if you've stacked them on top of each other (I guess I should learn to rotate cards more). That said, it's STILL $29.90, based on the 2nd arcade version, is portable, and has Wi-Fi play. What more do you really need?

If you're cool and thus already have the game, my friend code is 0817-1261-7843

If you don't, to entice you to buy it, here are some reusable coupons (until Aug 23) at Play-Asia.

10$ off 60$ coupon: DE-ALT-AKB
5$ off 30$ coupon: DE-ALT-AKA

(I just want some more people playing an (IMO) awesome game so I don't have to play across the ocean for wi-fi :P)

Dracil

The lack of response makes me a sad panda.

Or maybe everyone's just going gaga over this weekend's Comiket releases (Touhou 10! Touhou 10.5 demo! IOSYS CD!) since both this and that appeal to the import gamer crowd. Hmm... speaking of which, that deserves a topic if there isn't one yet.

inthegray

well, the game sounds really awesome, and i appreciate you taking the time to write up this preview on a game you're obviously passionate about; it's just that language barriers prevent us from really enjoying the title. even with the online support, we'd probably get whupped, not understanding all the complexities of the game.

i just looked over NCSX preview, and something like this really sounds fun and perfect for the DS. hopefully sega/koei or some other publisher will eventually localize it for us.

Dracil

The language barrier actually isn't all that bad. The most important text are during gameplay, but a lot of the important gameplay events come with a line of English text or are obvious (like being ambushed, or you're entering single combat, sieging, destroying an enemy unit, losing a unit, etc.) so you know what's happening during the battle, or else you'll know what to do within a few games (all that text in the beginning screens are just telling you to lay down your troops, and then pick a special strategy for this battle).

The only places that are really text heavy are the story (which isn't too important, if you really want to know the story there are English translations of the novel the game's based on online) and the special abilities of each card, which can be overcome with the translated card lists on Gamefaqs.com. That and the tutorial, but again, we can just Gamefaqs that. You can have a pretty good understanding of the game by reading the already available FAQs (also check under the Arcade version). There's also some stuff at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sangokushi_Taisen and http://www.sgcardgames.com/viewtopic.php?t=19277 In fact, if there's actually some interest I may try to translate some of the remaining stuff and put it all together into one FAQ.

It isn't really any harder than something like Jump Ultimate Stars, but it's definitely a lot more balanced and innovative.

Zarcath

Looks interesting, though i'd much rather play the arcade version. You mention 3 exclusive DS cards, do you win 1 digital card in the DS version for every game you play? is that the only way to get new DS cards or are there like DS card packs you buy?

Man...the japanese are so advanced with their arcade games I wish we had CCG arcade games in the US (yeah i know that PS3 one is out).

scootch

wow, that game looks fun. need english version.

Dracil

Zarcath wrote: »

Looks interesting, though i'd much rather play the arcade version. You mention 3 exclusive DS cards, do you win 1 digital card in the DS version for every game you play? is that the only way to get new DS cards or are there like DS card packs you buy?

Man...the japanese are so advanced with their arcade games I wish we had CCG arcade games in the US (yeah i know that PS3 one is out).

I think there are 5 exclusive DS cards. But yeah, you get 1 digital card after every game. You can also trade cards with people. And there's nothing to buy, just play and play. You also randomly get items and strategies (one-time use power for each battle)/gems in addition to the cards. Items auto-equip with their respective generals and increase their abilities. You start out with the Level 1 Recovery strategy (reduces time for defeated generals to return to the field) but you can get other strategies after you fulfill certain conditions (e.g. after using 100 total spearmen-type cards, you get a chance to get a strategy that greatly increases your Shu force's power - because most of the Shu kingdom generals use spears, or if you like using cards that give you the Wall ability, you'll eventually get a Strategy that lets you rebuild the walls). If you get a gem, it'll increase one of your strategy's levels, I think up to 10. Later levels require more gems for a level up, up to 5. Once they're reached Master level, you can also find two strategy books for each that give them further bonuses.

In Story mode, you also have a search party that'll also automatically look for items and will return with a new item after X number of battles. I think it goes from Idle -> Searching -> Found -> Recovering -> Returning -> Item GET -> Idle. The item recovered will always be for the side whose story you're currently playing.

Basically, playing on the DS is a helluva lot cheaper than playing the arcade. Assuming an average of $2/game, it'll run you several hundred dollars to get all the cards, assuming you get a new card every single time (and there's a lot of rarities - common, uncommon, rare, super-rare, legendary, and extra, so that's unlikely).

Also Morale, which is used for the special card skills (like increasing fighting power, multi-directional spear attack, flooding an area, etc.) is usually a max of 6, but if you only have 2 sides in your deck, it's a max of 9, and if one side, it's a max of 12. Similar to the mana curve/land decisions when deciding to use multiple colors in M:tG

As far as I know, there were like 2 untranslated arcade machines in the US for playtesting. One of them was in Illinois.

Some other aspects of the game:
Two units that move to the same location have a chance of entering Single combat between the generals. You get a sort of rhythm game type screen where you have to touch the pad when the bars reach a line. How well you do determines whether you win, lose, or tie. The loser's unit is automatically defeated. Warriors with high fighting ability have bigger bars so it's easier, and warriors with the Chivalry ability have a better chance of getting Musous which is the best you can get when tapping (ranges from Miss, Weak, Strong, Powerful, Musou).

Generals also have an Intelligence score, which affects how much damage they do when they ambush an enemy unit, and how long/powerful their special card skill is when used.

You may also notice that players have all sorts of titles depending on their rank. Like in the first video, the top guy (who you see playing) has a title of Great Hero, while the second person has a rank of Great Military Advisor. The second video is between a Hero and King of Wu. You start off as a Commander 10th class.

The cards are also illustrated by some pretty famous mangaka/game illustrators (the one people will most likely know is Clamp, and maybe Hiro Mashima of Rave Master)

Zarcath

is this really big in japan or is it more of a basement enthusiast kind of thing.

n00bish

I'm going to plug my store one more time. My Gameworks, located in Schaumburg, IL has the arcade version. We lost it for a bit and got it back, probably permanantly. Like the DS version, it is in Japanese. The language barrier is almost completely non-existent. The only issue is with knowing exactly which power each busho, or general uses, and we had (need to get a new one) a great big poster board that listed every card and their power. This is our biggest moneymaker on the game side. Individuals have dropped several hundred apiece, one over a thousand on this game. It is hella fun. We had a tournament in May, and the top prizes were copies of the DS games. Apparently, it plays very well, looks awesome, and has little slowdown. As far as how this game is in Japan, it is super popular in the arcades, and has a V2 with new cards and gameplay mechanics that I hope get localized and sent to our store.

If the game looks good to you and you have just an ounce of patience, get this game. The Japanese shouldn't be much of a factor.

Dracil

Ah, I think I mentioned your store in an earlier post, didn't realize it was a PAer's store. That said, move to California, dammit! :P

BTW, the DS version is already based on Version 2 of the game, so hopefully you kept a copy to see what it's like (and hopefully you kept a copy so we can play )

poshniallo

I love this game (DS), but haven't played online yet. Have to re-install that Nintendo Wi-Fi dongle I bought.

I'm still hunting for a cheap copy of the translation of the books.

BahamutZERO

Lu Bu! It's Lu Bu! AYYYERGH

firekiun

sorry for bumping this thread, but I just want to say that this game is really good.

Very deep strategy and planning is needed to win each game. NPC is good, and fighting against player is even better.

The language barrier isn't that bad, but you do need to know the special effect of each card. Everything else is represented by picture and obvious number, str, int, troop type, moral, cost. The only thing that will mess you p is the special skill that each card has. I wish they would translate and bring this state side.

omega71

Man I really wish they would port this here in English.

I saw this a few days ago and my pants got all tight.

Dracil

Just import it! The full card translations are available at http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/file/934651/48291

The translation of the original story can be found at http://www.threekingdoms.com/

There's an official English site that explains how to play the non-translated arcade. http://www.sangoku-wars.com It's based on Version 1 so it doesn't explain everything (the DS is based on version 2), like the items, elephant units, recruitment ability, etc (but they're kinda self-explanatory). But at least it does it in a pretty graphical manner.

It also has a graphical card list (again, V1) so the art may be different and there's fewer cards listed than in the game (the GFAQ translation, while not having pics, actually provides more exact details on the mechanics of each ability)

But this site is probably the extent of translation that Sega is willing to go through.

It actually probably suffers to some extent the same problems of porting Jump! Ultimate Stars - they have to secure rights from the various illustrators for the cards.

anti-everything

I am lucky enough to have a Gameworks near that has this game. It's the only reason I go there.

Ketherial

just to chime in from japan, this game is really popular (with geeks) in japan and is one of the most impressive games i have ever seen in terms of gameplay, player interactivity and just sheer awesomeness. you get players coming into arcades with their decks and lots of times lines form around the machines.

the only game that i think actually beats it in terms of "woah, cool" factor is the insanely awesome gundam game where you get into that crazy 180 degree screen pod and pilot the robots.

Dracil

There's an extremely ghetto (and I do mean extreme) version of it that someone made for the PC with some pre-made decks.

http://hazane.hp.infoseek.co.jp/e3594_v1221.zip

Press space bar to use card special abilities, use enter to use your strategy. Use space bar during Single Combats.

Zarcath

sorry if I missed it but is there wifi mp or is it local only?

Yriel

Hi,

This game is great .

Made a post about it in these forums about 2 months ago but couldnt sell it as much as I believed in it.

Its a great Hit not just in Japan, but most Asian countries like Hongkong(China), Singapore, Taiwan, Malaysia, etc. There are also many organized events for the Arcade version.

Hope this game catches on!

Dracil

So, like, the people with the game seriously need to post up their friend codes. I'll even go out and buy the WiFi USB thing so I can play online (the router here uses WPA instead of WEP)

Yriel

you can just use the auto matching system (allows you to earn rank). The wait time is normally just 2-3mins.

Dracil

Well, it's more like I'd like to play with people with as little lag as possible (to be honest, I haven't actually played online yet so I'm not too sure what it's like, since my current place doesn't have a router set to WEP but my new place will). But if nobody here wants to play, then that's probably what I'll end up doing.

I also find I tend to have more motivation to get better at a game when I play with people I recognize, rather than random matchups.

Meanwhile, I've almost completed all of single player. Tried the hardest difficulty 10-match training mode. The last 3 matchups were just insane. Since the computer is allowed to cheat with higher army cost limits, that last matchup was basically against an army 2x the size of mine in sheer numbers with slightly higher power as well. I think I'm going to need a fully mastered strategy and fully itemed-up generals to have a chance there.

Zarcath

how long are matches usually?

Dracil

Pretty fast. the 99 timer during battle means they probably don't really last longer than several minutes (each count is about 3 seconds, slightly less I think), then add maybe 30 seconds to setup time. If you watch the video, you see they can last as long as 8 minutes (first video) or as short as 1-2 minutes (third video, 3 games + chatter in about 10 minutes).

If you're playing story mode, it can be over in 30 seconds because the timers can be as low as 30, with victory conditions of killing a specific enemy unit in that time limit. There are also battles with normal victory conditions but timers are rarely set to 99.

In the "training" mode against the CPU, it's all 99 count standard victory games though.

Yriel

hi,

playing one-on-one with friend code isnt really faster, plus its great to see all the different kinds of combos ppl have out there in random matchup.

One more thing to add : you get rank if you play random matchups; the Mandarin characters in the red box of your name section indicates your pvp rank, while the one in the blue box is your pve rank.

Edit : btw, for the arcade version of this game, there are ppl selling personal 'playcards' with maxed out strategies at 'master level' with 2 sub scrolls for as high as $10k usd. Individual legend cards go as high as $50usd, Thats how crazy it is in Asia.

Yriel

Dracil wrote: »

Meanwhile, I've almost completed all of single player. Tried the hardest difficulty 10-match training mode. The last 3 matchups were just insane. Since the computer is allowed to cheat with higher army cost limits, that last matchup was basically against an army 2x the size of mine in sheer numbers with slightly higher power as well. I think I'm going to need a fully mastered strategy and fully itemed-up generals to have a chance there.

There is a way to cheat that last matchup. Its a cheese strat that only works vs. computer but... it gets the job done when you want to pass the training mode at the start.

Place your units on the far right, Use 2 ambush units to counter the high force, low int heroes that will charge from there. Finish them off, use the 'AE Slow' strategy and go straight for the base. Works better if you have 1 siege unit.