The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.

Red vs. Blue (Cold war Style)

Red*PandaRed*Panda Registered User regular
edited August 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
First I present this..

Russian bomber flies over a U.S. military base

Then this..

Russia Restores Bomber Patrols

and finally this..

Russia Claims the Artic and North Pole

I dont feel very good about all this, then again they are entitled to patrol there own borders and keep a strong military! its not like we can say much we invaded another country. (good or bad, thats what we did)

how do all of you feel about Putin and the moves he has been making lately?

redpandasmall.jpg
Red*Panda on

Posts

  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    This has the potential to be an awesome thread but, I kinda don't know where to begin...usually when you start a thread you supposed to kick off the conversation...

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • Red*PandaRed*Panda Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    This has the potential to be an awesome thread but, I kinda don't know where to begin...usually when you start a thread you supposed to kick off the conversation...

    yah, Fixed.. thanks

    Red*Panda on
    redpandasmall.jpg
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    "veteran Arctic explorer Artur Chilingarov"

    I can't make this shit up. Well, I guess I could.

    Someone needs to kick Putin in the balls, but he's got quite a bit of Sambo training.

    Octoparrot on
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies? I'm all about another one if that's the case.

    Fellhand on
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I myself don't know how to feel. I look at Putin and instantly notice that he is a charismatic leader that is doing good things for his country. Then I look at the militarization of that country and militarization always without fail always stimulates the economy. Just look at their defense spending, I saw a bunch of weird stuff they were making on wired.com.

    With concerns to the expansion stuff; It was my understanding that the arctic was to remain unclaimed by any country and Russia was just like: "tsh we claimin this shit what choo gonna do bout it".

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • CorlisCorlis Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    My anthropology professor used the USSR as an example of why laisse-faire economics are not necessarily good for every nation on earth at all times: Robber barons took control of many industries and they ended up with a massive amount of organized crime. Of course the USSR wasn't happy-lucky-funland before the break-up, so I suppose the people are just getting screwed by different people now, or at least people with different job titles. Not having lived there, I couldn't say whether it's actually worse or better now.

    Corlis on
    But I don't mind, as long as there's a bed beneath the stars that shine,
    I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I myself don't know how to feel. I look at Putin and instantly notice that he is a charismatic leader that is doing good things for his country. Then I look at the militarization of that country and militarization always without fail always stimulates the economy. Just look at their defense spending, I saw a bunch of weird stuff they were making on wired.com.

    toward the end of the cold war, the USSR was spending close to 25% of their GNP on their military, and ther economy was in the toliet. just because a country spends money on the military doesn't mean their economy is going to do well too

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pants Man wrote: »
    I myself don't know how to feel. I look at Putin and instantly notice that he is a charismatic leader that is doing good things for his country. Then I look at the militarization of that country and militarization always without fail always stimulates the economy. Just look at their defense spending, I saw a bunch of weird stuff they were making on wired.com.

    toward the end of the cold war, the USSR was spending close to 25% of their GNP on their military, and ther economy was in the toliet. just because a country spends money on the military doesn't mean their economy is going to do well too

    agreed.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pants Man wrote: »
    I myself don't know how to feel. I look at Putin and instantly notice that he is a charismatic leader that is doing good things for his country. Then I look at the militarization of that country and militarization always without fail always stimulates the economy. Just look at their defense spending, I saw a bunch of weird stuff they were making on wired.com.

    toward the end of the cold war, the USSR was spending close to 25% of their GNP on their military, and ther economy was in the toliet. just because a country spends money on the military doesn't mean their economy is going to do well too

    agreed.

    what, really? because you just said that "militarization always without fail always stimulates the economy" and i just said that's incorrect.

    unless you were being sarcastic and i didn't pick up on it


    edit: also "I look at Putin and instantly notice that he is a charismatic leader that is doing good things for his country."


    yeah, i'm pretty sure you were just being sarcastic and i'm just dumb.

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2007
    Maybe it's because of all the "fuck you"s we've been sending Moscow recently.

    Doc on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited August 2007
    Pants Man wrote: »
    toward the end of the cold war, the USSR was spending close to 25% of their GNP on their military, and ther economy was in the toliet. just because a country spends money on the military doesn't mean their economy is going to do well too

    ...and right now the dollar is worth fuckall compared to the rest of the world. I <3 shopping online thanks to that. :P

    Echo on
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    Fellhand on
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    toward the end of the cold war, the USSR was spending close to 25% of their GNP on their military, and ther economy was in the toliet. just because a country spends money on the military doesn't mean their economy is going to do well too

    ...and right now the dollar is worth fuckall compared to the rest of the world. I <3 shopping online thanks to that. :P

    it's a more nuanced than that, but yeah, the iraq war isn't helping our economy

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • Pants ManPants Man Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.


    like i said, it's a lot more nuanced than that. the economy doesn't just automatically respond because there's a war going on, and in the soviet union's case, the way they were running their economy meant that no amount of cold war defense spending was going to magically make their economy all better.

    Pants Man on
    "okay byron, my grandma has a right to be happy, so i give you my blessing. just... don't get her pregnant. i don't need another mom."
  • FellhandFellhand Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Hm. I'll reread more on the CW tonight. I'm intrigued now on the economic side.

    Fellhand on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Doc wrote: »
    Maybe it's because of all the "fuck you"s we've been sending Moscow recently.

    But Bush looked into Putin's soul and discovered he was a good man! Why would a good man act like a jackass?

    Couscous on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator, Administrator admin
    edited August 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Maybe it's because of all the "fuck you"s we've been sending Moscow recently.

    But Bush looked into Putin's soul and discovered he was a good man! Why would a good man act like a jackass?

    Actually, that was Bush giving Putin cancer with his x-ray vision.

    Echo on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Maybe it's because of all the "fuck you"s we've been sending Moscow recently.

    But Bush looked into Putin's soul and discovered he was a good man! Why would a good man act like a jackass?

    Our president can peer into people's souls now? Like wishmaster?

    Octoparrot on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Octoparrot wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    Doc wrote: »
    Maybe it's because of all the "fuck you"s we've been sending Moscow recently.

    But Bush looked into Putin's soul and discovered he was a good man! Why would a good man act like a jackass?

    Our president can peer into people's souls now? Like wishmaster?
    I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.

    Couscous on
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    I remember an 80's movie with John Candy in it (Canadian Bacon), and it had almost that same plot. America wanted a new cold war so they got Russia to come down here and they said no and it eventually lead to a cold war with Canada. I know my description is kinda sketchy it been a while since I've seen it.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • Red*PandaRed*Panda Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    I remember an 80's movie with John Candy in it (Canadian Bacon), and it had almost that same plot. America wanted a new cold war so they got Russia to come down here and they said no and it eventually lead to a cold war with Canada. I know my description is kinda sketchy it been a while since I've seen it.

    It was an Ok movie, it had a few funny parts. it was in 1995 though.

    Canadian Bacon

    Red*Panda on
    redpandasmall.jpg
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Red*Panda wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    I remember an 80's movie with John Candy in it (Canadian Bacon), and it had almost that same plot. America wanted a new cold war so they got Russia to come down here and they said no and it eventually lead to a cold war with Canada. I know my description is kinda sketchy it been a while since I've seen it.

    It was an Ok movie, it had a few funny parts. it was in 1995 though.

    Canadian Bacon

    my mistake.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • TofystedethTofystedeth Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Red*Panda wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    I remember an 80's movie with John Candy in it (Canadian Bacon), and it had almost that same plot. America wanted a new cold war so they got Russia to come down here and they said no and it eventually lead to a cold war with Canada. I know my description is kinda sketchy it been a while since I've seen it.

    It was an Ok movie, it had a few funny parts. it was in 1995 though.

    Canadian Bacon

    my mistake.

    Funny thing about that movie, is it was a Michael Moore movie, and I think, his best one. Is it wierd that I think his fictional comedy was more worthwhile than his "documentaries"?

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • IShallRiseAgainIShallRiseAgain Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I didn't realize there was a difference between the two.

    IShallRiseAgain on
    Alador239.png
  • an_altan_alt Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I laughed.

    At any rate, there were upsides and downsides to the cold war. I almost miss the days of proxy wars instead of civil wars.

    an_alt on
    Pony wrote:
    I think that the internet has been for years on the path to creating what is essentially an electronic Necronomicon: A collection of blasphemous unrealities so perverse that to even glimpse at its contents, if but for a moment, is to irrevocably forfeit a portion of your sanity.
    Xbox - PearlBlueS0ul, Steam
    If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited August 2007
    Red*Panda wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    I remember an 80's movie with John Candy in it (Canadian Bacon), and it had almost that same plot. America wanted a new cold war so they got Russia to come down here and they said no and it eventually lead to a cold war with Canada. I know my description is kinda sketchy it been a while since I've seen it.

    It was an Ok movie, it had a few funny parts. it was in 1995 though.

    Canadian Bacon

    my mistake.

    Funny thing about that movie, is it was a Michael Moore movie, and I think, his best one. Is it wierd that I think his fictional comedy was more worthwhile than his "documentaries"?

    He's actually a really funny guy.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=l2JHzj2j5Jw

    Doc on
  • GoumindongGoumindong Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Pants Man wrote: »
    Fellhand wrote: »
    Didn't the cold war help sustain both the US and USSR economies?

    hahahahahahah NO

    Nothing more then hahahah no? That's it? I mean I didn't really elaborate, but in times of conflict defense contracts do an awesome job of stimulating the economy and generating local revenue.

    After the cold war ended and we started to close bases up here there was a noticeable decline in economic activity. I've often thought it would be a great scheme for two countries to intentionally have a cold war just to keep their economy running on a certain level.

    Uhh. Fucking no. Holy lord no.

    Military spending is fucking terrible. The Cold war for the U.S. was sustained by gains and debt from WWII. For the U.S.S.R. it was an unmitigated disaster.

    But these gains from WWII only came because after the rest of the industrialized world had the shit blown out of it the U.S. had a huge comparative advantage in producing everything

    I mean, if a bunch of people were fighting in your house, blew the shit out of it and then some other guy came in built you a house and on a contract for debt he would be able to buy a bunch of fancy stuff too.

    In short, follow this axiom.

    Military spending is only advantagious when when that spending is used to procure resources or keep resources from being producred from you. [which is in all ways a negative sum game compared to other spending]

    During the cold war, we overproduced military needs to a ridiculous extent.

    Goumindong on
    wbBv3fj.png
  • DanHibikiDanHibiki Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Doc wrote: »

    He's actually a really funny guy.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=l2JHzj2j5Jw

    did he say "she attends funerals for fetal tissue"?

    DanHibiki on
  • ShmoepongShmoepong Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'm tempted to look at these three events as seperate incidences and that they're not building on one another. The Kremlin sticks their fingers in the US's eyes any chance they get or they'll bullshit a reason just to do it. This backdrop of hostility left over from the Cold War is nothing new, it's just Russia is able to flex it's muscles more actively now than 16 years ago. The Kremlin's flush with cash from the relatively new state owned oil sector, so it makes sense to revitalize the deflated ego of the Russian Federations armed forces. If my intuition proves corret, these are just short lived stunts that Russia won't follow up with any real firepower. Besides, their military is like 50 years behind current technological trends.

    The most interesting article here is the claim of the extent of land protruding from the Lomonosov shelf. With the ten billion barrels of oil sitting there we can be sure to see more vodka induced hilarity.

    Like this!
    Concept for Gazprom's HQ. It's a woman's shoe. =|
    miraculous-russian-gazprom-building_4_49.jpg

    Edit:
    how do all of you feel about Putin and the moves he has been making lately?

    Meh. Although, Europe will kick up a shit storm if he turns into the Siberian Chavez.

    Shmoepong on
    I don't think I could take a class without sparring. That would be like a class without techniques. Sparring has value not only as an important (necessary) step in applying your techniques to fighting, but also because it provides a rush and feeling of elation, confidence, and joyful exhaustion that can only be matched by ... oh shit, I am describing sex again. Sorry everyone. - Epicurus
  • TachTach Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Meh. Let 'em have a shelf of ice. It'll be gone soon enough.

    Besides, we can always claim the Moon. Then we can begin work on the "Alan Parsons Project".

    Tach on
  • brandotheninjamasterbrandotheninjamaster Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Tach wrote: »
    Meh. Let 'em have a shelf of ice. It'll be gone soon enough.

    Besides, we can always claim the Moon.

    Nah, I hear China going to be the next one up there to plant the old flag.

    brandotheninjamaster on
  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Tach wrote: »
    Meh. Let 'em have a shelf of ice. It'll be gone soon enough.

    Besides, we can always claim the Moon. Then we can begin work on the "Alan Parsons Project".
    It's not so much the ice or the water under it that he's claiming...
    natural resources

    Aldo on
  • GorakGorak Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Shmoepong wrote: »
    Although, Europe will kick up a shit storm if he turns into the Siberian Chavez.

    The governments or the people? Personally, I've got no problem with him offering cheap fuel to poor people and telling the IMF to eat a dick.

    Gorak on
  • Ant000Ant000 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Did anyone catch this article? I think it was on Digg like a month ago. It's like a weird Russian, Hitler Youth-esque, movement.


    All able bodied youth to the Love Oasis for procreation!

    Ant000 on
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I think that generally, China and Russia will start asserting themselves more and more. Which is kind of understandable. But I dont trust the US and more than I trust Russia really.

    Fallingman on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Sign In or Register to comment.