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[Phalla] Through The Greatwood - Finale: A Hero's Return (Good Guys Win!)

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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    As a reminder Xevo, if we all vote for him, we have no voting records to use tonight to findnig bad guys. We just need to find bad guys and since he's done us the favor of saving ourselves a seering, it would be better a vigilante considers hitting him since at this time, their kills will likely hit good guys over bad guys. It's up to them if they want to do it or not. If I was a vigilante, the more I think about it now, I would shoot him.

    Besides, we need to find the other bad guys. It's always possible he wants us to be distracted from something else we were doing at that point, but likely he just told us that not all the bad guys knew each other.

    Ardor on
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    XevoXevo Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Again, no single special has contacted me. I will out whoever I seer tonight unless they're a good guy special (for I hope obvious reasons).

    Xevo on
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    GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Lets look at the facts:

    Xevo is a relatively new player

    Xevo admits that he watched the HP phalla very closely (where I pulled exactly what he is trying to pull here)

    Xevo gets bandwagoned, he figures hey.. it worked for Grundl I might as well try it (again, it's way too much of a coincidence that he is pulling the same thing that I did... considering he watched the game very closely)

    Xevo announces that he's going to seer VisibleHowl. VisibleHowl is a self outed bad guy. I bet we'd all be really surprised if his seering showed that he was a bad guy! VisbleHowl was the safest choice for a fake seer to "prove" himself by announcing he's a bad guy.

    Seriously, when have we ever hit a special with a bandwagon day 1 and they came out and told us they were so and so and it actually turned out to be true? I don't remember it ever happening.... although I remember quite a few times when the people were lying.

    Grundlterror on
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    XevoXevo Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    As a reminder Xevo, if we all vote for him, we have no voting records to use tonight to findnig bad guys. We just need to find bad guys and since he's done us the favor of saving ourselves a seering, it would be better a vigilante considers hitting him since at this time, their kills will likely hit good guys over bad guys. It's up to them if they want to do it or not. If I was a vigilante, the more I think about it now, I would shoot him.

    See that's reasoning I can get behind, and I hope our vig reads this and kills visiblehowl tonight! I just think all the BS people are bringing up about "Maybe he has a special power that needs him to get voted off!" is just ridiculous and makes me extremely suspicious...

    Xevo on
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    XevoXevo Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Xevo admits that he watched the HP phalla very closely (where I pulled exactly what he is trying to pull here)

    There is one major difference: You never quoted any kind of Role PM info except to say you were Trelawny, which was extremely suspicious since like 10 posts previously someone else claimed Trelawny could be the seer role. I have actually stated what my power is per my PM, and said as much as I could without breaking the rules.

    Also, I've already said I will specifically NOT seer VH tonite and hope that our vig kills him instead.

    Xevo on
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    GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Xevo wrote: »
    Ardor wrote: »
    As a reminder Xevo, if we all vote for him, we have no voting records to use tonight to findnig bad guys. We just need to find bad guys and since he's done us the favor of saving ourselves a seering, it would be better a vigilante considers hitting him since at this time, their kills will likely hit good guys over bad guys. It's up to them if they want to do it or not. If I was a vigilante, the more I think about it now, I would shoot him.

    See that's reasoning I can get behind, and I hope our vig reads this and kills visiblehowl tonight! I just think all the BS people are bringing up about "Maybe he has a special power that needs him to get voted off!" is just ridiculous and makes me extremely suspicious...

    Why? WHY??????????

    Grundlterror on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Ardor, the problem with Xevo starting to build a network privately instead of confirming himself by publicly seering someone (it doesn't have to be VH) is that we'll never be able to trust him. If he's a bad guy, he could survive for a while by pretending to be the mouthpiece for a network that doesn't even exist. You know how people behave in these games: we're all doubtful of Xevo now, but once people accept the idea that he's probably our seer, his word will be Law and the majority of players will buy everything he says. If he's a monster, he can hurt the village a lot at that point.

    If I were a monster being bandwagoned on day one, I'd do exactly what Xevo is doing right now. I'd claim to be a seer. I wouldn't be able to live very long, because the real seer would find a way to out me at some point, but I could do some damage to the village in the meantime. I might even catch a special or two if they were stupid enough to contact me.

    I'm really torn about this. I'm not comfortable with voting out a player who might be our only seer, but on the other hand I have a hard time believing he is a seer. His suggestion that our vigilante should out himself reeks of monster, in my opinion.

    I base my opinion on this matter by value.

    Killing a bad guy is good. Killing our seer is really bad. I'd rather take the chance that he is a bad guy and give him a few days to gather a network than kill him only to find out we killed our (likely) only seer in the game. He's always going to be here if he's being protected, so we don't have to worry about him too much.

    Alternatively, let's assume he is a bad guy. At some point, it'll be very apparent what he is whether another network throws him to the wolves or something else happens to prove he's a bad guy. Since he's now under scrutiny, he'll be watched but noted. If he dies clean, we lost our seer and any potential leads we could've gotten from him.

    At this point in time, it might not be a bad idea to look at the people who were posting after he came out and did not retract their votes in the first page or two. What he's doing is not unreasonable and the folks who don't understand it either weren't paying attention, or want him to die.

    Ardor on
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    cheezcheez Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Typhus733 wrote: »
    Honestly I'd rather not but I'm going to !retract Xevo since I got shanked in the FF phalla for basically this same situation.

    For being a jerk? :P

    Anyway, holy crap, lots of goings-on since I went to bed. I'm inclined to think that we should leave both VH and Xevo alone today to see what comes of it. However, any network of innocents that Xevo starts is going to be extremely weak, simply due to the significant chance of him being evil. The only way he can really redeem himself is by deliver an evil.

    As for VH, I really don't know what he's playing at, and I think it'd be kind of silly for a bad guy to have a day 1 goal of eating a bandwagon. But still, I guess we can't take the chance there, since I really see no purpose in his post other than to say "Vote for me!" So I can wait a day.

    I'm going to vote for telcus, because "pork" should not show up as a verb and a noun in the same sentence.

    I'm also going to vote for Ardor.

    cheez on
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    Cold Salmon and HatredCold Salmon and Hatred __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    Hey guys, I'm the vigilante.
    With my sword I stab people and they die.

    My telling of the way I kill people as it says in my pm obviously means I'm telling the truth.

    Cold Salmon and Hatred on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Seriously, when have we ever hit a special with a bandwagon day 1 and they came out and told us they were so and so and it actually turned out to be true? I don't remember it ever happening.... although I remember quite a few times when the people were lying.

    It's happened at least once or twice, yes. I hate to bring it up, but in the Phalliad I didn't lie about being a seer, although there was a way to bring me back to life.

    Did we kill Life3 in FF Phalla when he claimed to be a seer as well by the vote? I forget.

    Ardor on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man, didn't any of you listen to my logic? If you think I'm a bad guy, you shouldn't kill me.

    On the other hand, Mr. Vigilante, if you think I'm innocent, you should definitely take me out.

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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    OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Zot wrote: »
    Hey guys, I'm the vigilante.
    With my sword I stab people and they die.

    My telling of the way I kill people as it says in my pm obviously means I'm telling the truth.

    Stab Teclus the same way he stabs pork.
    Bent over, squealing and with a lot of grunting.

    Oats on
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    GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    Seriously, when have we ever hit a special with a bandwagon day 1 and they came out and told us they were so and so and it actually turned out to be true? I don't remember it ever happening.... although I remember quite a few times when the people were lying.

    It's happened at least once or twice, yes. I hate to bring it up, but in the Phalliad I didn't lie about being a seer, although there was a way to bring me back to life.

    Did we kill Life3 in FF Phalla when he claimed to be a seer as well by the vote? I forget.

    No robothero kinda tipped him off that he was going to be killed by the badguys (aka me and robothero and some other people) and he came out to the thread and begged for protection.

    Grundlterror on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Man, didn't any of you listen to my logic? If you think I'm a bad guy, you shouldn't kill me.

    On the other hand, Mr. Vigilante, if you think I'm innocent, you should definitely take me out.
    Guys, I have a revelation to make.

    I'm a bad guy.

    Now, I know what you're thinking. You want to kill me. And that's understandable. But think logically about this for a moment.

    For at least the past 10 phallas I've been in, one of two things has happened with me:

    1) I die on the first or second day;
    2) I do something that severely cripples my team, usually causing it to lose.

    In fact, my team has lost the last 3 phallas in which I wasn't killed day 1. Ask somebody about Space Phalla 13.

    So what do you think? If you think I'm actually a good guy, you should vote for me and kill me off on day one so I don't harm the village's chances. If you think I'm a bad guy like I claim, you should let me live, because I'll probably screw up my team's chances.

    You decide.

    Edit: Lawlz, top of the page.

    So let me get this straight. We should kill you if we think you are good because somehow your living decreases the chances for a good guy victory whereas if you are evil, you should live to curse them.

    That would make a lot of sense if I believed in the tooth fairy and easter bunny.

    Your existence in a game doesn't sway the odds one way or the other based upon the past 3 games you've played. Are you suggesting that all the folks who work very hard to make their team win are completely nullified by the fact that you were still alive past day 1?

    Ardor on
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    zalzal Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I thought first night's voting is 95% a shot in the dark anyway, so we can't really be expecting any productive result. With that said, since it's a throw away, it really can't be considered a waste no matter who ends up being the target, whether someone claiming to be a bad guy, or another hinting to be a seer.

    zal on
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    XevoXevo Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Yes certainly killing who is possibly the only good guy seer couldn't possibly be seen as a waste! :roll:

    Xevo on
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    NionNion Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    By that logic every possible vote is a horrible idea, as everyone could be a good special. You saying you are one doesn't change anything.

    EDIT: Though I do admit that keeping you alive would be the better course of action at the moment. We just don't have any evidence to suggest anyone else would be a better target for the mighty bandwagon of killing someone every day.

    Nion on
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    Jester313Jester313 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ok. After looking through all this, I !retract Xevo for execution just in case he is our seer. But man, what the hell. What. The. Hell.

    I keep my vote on Squashua for investigator.

    Since I really dislike him for the Revolution Phalla, I'm going to grudge !vote precisionk.

    Jester313 on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    Nion wrote: »
    By that logic every possible vote is a horrible idea, as everyone could be a good special. You saying you are one doesn't change anything.

    You can always do what Fembot did and vote for Fembot.


    :lol:

    Squashua on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I'd give him a few days. I'd feel strongly against any more than that.

    If he's lying, within a few days the legit network would gun for him. However, the concern is that we may lose the seer on day one, leaving him "safe." That's why I'm leery of leaving him around over-long.

    Elendil on
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    Hi I'm Vee!Hi I'm Vee! Formerly VH; She/Her; Is an E X P E R I E N C E Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ardor wrote: »
    So let me get this straight. We should kill you if we think you are good because somehow your living decreases the chances for a good guy victory whereas if you are evil, you should live to curse them.

    That would make a lot of sense if I believed in the tooth fairy and easter bunny.

    Your existence in a game doesn't sway the odds one way or the other based upon the past 3 games you've played. Are you suggesting that all the folks who work very hard to make their team win are completely nullified by the fact that you were still alive past day 1?

    My presence isn't the be-all end-all. Case in point, I almost screwed up the network in the Phalliad, but was able to erase my mistake by some ninja editing and the blessing of the fact that I outed myself really late at night, so practically nobody saw it. The village ended up scraping by in that one. In the Salem phalla I told a bad guy who one of the vigilantes was. Marx was going to die anyway (by the other team), and the village won, but it was pretty tight at the end, and we could have used an extra kill.

    So no, it doesn't just depend on which team I'm on. However, I'm sure you remember Space Phalla 13, where I inadvertantly killed 4 good guys (including the seer) with my one-time-use ability. In the democratic anti-virus phalla, I was the ILOVEYOU virus, and contacted a good guy in the hopes he was a bad guy, rather than just laying low and hoping something more concrete showed up. I'm pretty sure I handled the Firefly phalla rather badly, although that was a weird one, so it might not count. And FWD maintains to this day that the Communists lost the Red Scare phalla because of my inaction.

    Of course it's ridiculous to think that I am the sole decider of victory for a Phalla. It's not so ridiculous to realize that I'm usually detrimental to my team.

    Honestly, somebody should kill me today just on the off-chance that I'm on their team.

    Edit: trimmed the quote tree

    Hi I'm Vee! on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Nion wrote: »
    By that logic every possible vote is a horrible idea, as everyone could be a good special. You saying you are one doesn't change anything.

    We've worked under the assumption from past experiences, that if you are a good guy, pretending to be a good guy special can really screw with your team and hurt their chances of winning.

    Let's say I came forward right now and claimed I'm a vigilante and I'm going to kill XXXXXX. If there's only one guardian, they have a choice to make. Let's say they protect me and Xevo dies while I survive, but I'm not a vigilante. We lost a seer and I screwed my team.

    If you feel you have to make such a claim to survive, you potentially hurt your team's chances not because you will die and they lose a villager, but because some powers may shift around that cost us a real special in the balance.

    The best bet is to come clean with what you are or to find a better target and convince everyone else why that person should die and not you.

    If folks are really not sure what they want to do, they should just vote based on grudges or RNG rolls because tonight's not going to help us much otherwise.

    Ideally, we would pick two people and aim to tie them. Once we know what both of them are, we can deduce people by which choice they made. Did they vote for person A? Person B or someone else randomly to not get caught up in those vote records?

    That would be my suggestion. We find two people and shoot for a tie vote. If someone breaks that tie, then we should heavily consider that person to be a bad guy unless they have impeccable reasons why they thought someone was evil. On day 1, nobody has such reasons, so they have no excuses.

    Ardor on
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    Jester313Jester313 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    So who should we tie?

    Dethkok already has a good number of votes...so maybe him and someone else who is pretty inactive?

    TheWook? Green?

    Jester313 on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    It's a proven fact that I choose poorly when it comes to finding bad guys. I'll leave you guys up to that decision and I will follow it if you want to go the route of the tie. I can always agree to find someone just above the inactivity line for a voting target though. If nothing else, they haven't been adding much to the game at that point.

    Ardor on
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    Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    I suggest Precisionk, for being uncharacteristically quiet.

    Bliss 101 on
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    OatsOats Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    I suggest Precisionk, for being uncharacteristically quiet.

    Wow... I just noticed that. Kinda the way you just notice silence.

    Oats on
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    Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Ardor, is the idea to have Xevo as the other tied vote target? Because that seems like a pretty dangerous gamble if he indeed is a seer like he claims (which I still find rather doubtful). On the other hand, if we assume he's either a seer or a monster, we could get a lot of information out of that vote later. On a yet another hand, now that a big deal has been made out of day one voting records, the monsters are unlikely to make dumb mistakes with their votes.

    Bliss 101 on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Part of the reason I didn't want to mention PK was that in a game like this where he can be elected, when he's not gunning for it, he's usually a special or bad guy.

    He's never out to screw his own team, regardless of what people think of him.

    RE: Bliss101. No. We need to assume Xeno is the seer for now but while good guy specials should NOT contact him, we should follow elendil's advice and give him a few days. By then, a seer can either out a bunch of bad guys or have someone come forward to condemn him.

    Also, players, be very cautious should someone come to you and say that such and such has seered evil and they need your help to publicize it. If it's a ruse, you will die by our hands the next day and turn out to be good.

    Ardor on
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    SquashuaSquashua __BANNED USERS regular
    edited August 2007
    precisionk is never around till the afternoons/evenings on these games.

    Squashua on
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    ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Ardor, is the idea to have Xevo as the other tied vote target? Because that seems like a pretty dangerous gamble if he indeed is a seer like he claims (which I still find rather doubtful). On the other hand, if we assume he's either a seer or a monster, we could get a lot of information out of that vote later. On a yet another hand, now that a big deal has been made out of day one voting records, the monsters are unlikely to make dumb mistakes with their votes.
    Tying up the vote only works if there's someone the monsters need to save.

    This would mean we would need (A) to make a monster one of these and (B) the monsters to be dumb enough to try and save him.

    I don't see how this is supposed to work. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

    Elendil on
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    Jester313Jester313 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    How many votes would Precision need to get elected?

    Jester313 on
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    Niceguy MyeyeNiceguy Myeye Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    To Visible Howl:

    If you're so concerned about your team and having you on it is like the plague. Why didn't you just relinquish your spot to one of the reserve players?

    I'm sure they would have loved it.

    Niceguy Myeye on
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    GrundlterrorGrundlterror Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Elendil wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Ardor, is the idea to have Xevo as the other tied vote target? Because that seems like a pretty dangerous gamble if he indeed is a seer like he claims (which I still find rather doubtful). On the other hand, if we assume he's either a seer or a monster, we could get a lot of information out of that vote later. On a yet another hand, now that a big deal has been made out of day one voting records, the monsters are unlikely to make dumb mistakes with their votes.
    Tying up the vote only works if there's someone the monsters need to save.

    This would mean we would need (A) to make a monster one of these and (B) the monsters to be dumb enough to try and save him.

    I don't see how this is supposed to work. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

    It won't work... only the bad guys really benefit because theres always that one guy that comes and breaks the tie at the last minute.... possibly saving their comrade. Everything else is just chance.

    Grundlterror on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Elendil wrote: »
    Bliss 101 wrote: »
    Ardor, is the idea to have Xevo as the other tied vote target? Because that seems like a pretty dangerous gamble if he indeed is a seer like he claims (which I still find rather doubtful). On the other hand, if we assume he's either a seer or a monster, we could get a lot of information out of that vote later. On a yet another hand, now that a big deal has been made out of day one voting records, the monsters are unlikely to make dumb mistakes with their votes.
    Tying up the vote only works if there's someone the monsters need to save.

    This would mean we would need (A) to make a monster one of these and (B) the monsters to be dumb enough to try and save him.

    I don't see how this is supposed to work. Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

    Call it an experiment.

    We don't know what happens when a tie occurs, nor do we know if vote manipulators exist. If they do, we will never have an accurate count so I wouldn't worry about them.

    If we tied two people up, we'd remind everyone to not vote one way or the other to see what happens. Anyone voting to break that tie is either a completely retarded innocent or a bad guy trying to save someone. Nobody should have information at this point in the game to assume one person is more likely bad than another. Therefore, no reasonable excuse exists for someone who decides to break the tie.

    Also, we've used voting records in the past games (obviously) to help locate bad guys. This is much easier to use when we have a choice between two targets rather than one big bandwagon. We look at who voted for person A, who voted for person B and who voted for someone else and assume the likelihood or where the bad guys are in that distribution.

    That's my take on it. Let's make day 1 useful.


    RE: Niceguy, it's likely he's a bad guy and they did not know each other, so he's bringing them together. VH isn't an ass who would try to screw his team instead of having a reserve take his place.

    Ardor on
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    Jester313Jester313 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Well my Children, it sounds as though we are having a hard time devising a plan. Perhaps, then, we shouldn't have a plan.

    Everyone do what they feel is best on this day. Then, when the dawn breaks we will be able to look with a fresh eye on the night's events, and he who was elected investigator can lead us in our search.

    Jester313 on
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    Bliss 101Bliss 101 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Oh well, I guess I'd rather err on the side of caution, so consider me swayed. I never seem to fail to flip-flop on my day 1 voting.

    !retract Xevo for now.

    And Dëthkök, don't get lazy just because you seem to have dodged the bandwagon. We demand vote counts! Maybe this will whip you back in shape:

    !vote DËTHKÖK

    For the record, I'm only voting for Dëthkök because that seems like the best way to save Xevo right now. I don't really want DK to die for posting haikus. I'd get behind a precisionk bandwagon if more people are thusly inclined.

    Bliss 101 on
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    zalzal Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Does anyone actually have a working plan when elected as the investigator? My vote belongs to whoever that will provide a sound plan.

    zal on
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    Jester313Jester313 Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Good point.

    Maybe we should discuss what we need to know to make things easier on the village.

    Jester313 on
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    ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Jester313 wrote: »
    Well my Children, it sounds as though we are having a hard time devising a plan. Perhaps, then, we shouldn't have a plan.

    Everyone do what they feel is best on this day. Then, when the dawn breaks we will be able to look with a fresh eye on the night's events, and he who was elected investigator can lead us in our search.

    And let day 1 be a waste? We can more effectively use day 1 voting records by organizing two bandwagons and trying to tie them.

    Worst case scenario, we kill 2 innocents.

    Best case scenario, we kill 2 bad guys.

    Reasonable scenarios, we find a bad guy and someone tries to save them, meaning we have 1-2 very good targets for the next night or two or we use the voting records to assume distrubution of bad guy votes under the three categories I mentioned earlier and shoot into the crowd we think has a better chance of finding a bad guy.

    We know nothing in this game and I'm not willing to let day 1 go by without it giving us some sort of advantage. If you'd rather play the guessing/RNG game, go ahead and advocate why that's a better idea than to have some form of plan, in a game where that plan greatly contributed to the victory the bad guys had in games like SS13, BANG and French Phalla.

    Ardor on
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    precisionkprecisionk Registered User regular
    edited August 2007
    Squashua wrote: »
    precisionk is never around till the afternoons/evenings on these games.

    This man knows the truth. I come on to read what is up and I already have people going for my throat, because I didn't announce my intent to lead nor have posted a hojillion times. I figured I would give someone else a shot, seeing as my last reign in France ended up horribly.

    I am also in the process of fucking reinstalling Windows Server 2003 at work, so it is eating up forum time kids.

    I need to catch up on what fiascos have already happened.

    precisionk on
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