EDGE Magazine UK - They gave Bioshock a bit of a bashing this Month

Kworn

Anyone read this Mag?

They gave Bioshock a REAL bashing this month. Normally it is a very repected magazine but I think they went a bit far with this one.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts?

japan

Haven't got this months yet, but I'll probably pick it up tomorrow.

What were their specific objections?

EDIT: and what was the score? To even get an 8 out of EDGE is something of an achievement.

Ritchmeister

An Edge 8 is like an IGN 10.

It got an 8.

Ritchmeister

"I have registered on this forum to express my outrage at the score EDGE gave Bioshock. It is quite clearly the best game ever, as Metacritic proves. Why, even those faint-hearted bozos over at Eurogamer had to admit to it's brilliance.

EDGE IS WRONG

To make it perfectly clear how wrong they are, I am never coming back here again."

Haha, god that will be why I no longer frequent the EDGE forums.

Though to be fair most of the people there are ok.

NexusSix

japan wrote: »

What were their specific objections?

I'm U.S., and can't get to their site from the work PC. But I'd like to hear what their complaints are. Still, an 8 out of 10 isn't bad... I'm just wondering if there were legit complaints, which are always fair, or if the review was just some silly backlash.

Kworn

japan wrote: »

Haven't got this months yet, but I'll probably pick it up tomorrow.

What were their specific objections?

EDIT: and what was the score? To even get an 8 out of EDGE is something of an achievement.

Ok it got an 8, but if you read the review it would seem like they were heading for a 6-7. I think they changed the score at the last minute.

A few snippets from the review

"Bioshocks problem is that it simply cant maintain a consistent standard outside of its exceptional opening and occasional highpoints"

"The Environments are noticeably distinct, its perhaps the lack of variety within them that is most noticeable"

"Little sisters and Big Daddies dont Interact with the world in any believable way"

"Bioshock offers nothing new outside of it area of setting"

I'm sorry but a lot of the review I think is utter bullshit!!

There is a lot more to the review that is just WRONG but I need to sit here and type it all out

japan

Yeah 8 is still a really good score. Generally I find that I'll consider anything above a 6.

For example, some other EDGE "8" games:
Gran Turismo 3
GTAIII
MGS3
God of War
Guitar Hero

Ritchmeister

Although they gave Space Giraffe an 8 aswell this month.


Oh and they happen to run a column by Jeff Minter.

Rook

EDGE; Bioshock is one of the experiences of the year, but certainly not unreservedly. It's at once a joy and a disappointment, achingly ambitious and cravenly conservative, and ultimately a complete triumph in one sense and a nagging failure in several others

EDGE; Bioshock's problem is that it simply can't mantain a consistent standard outside of its exceptional opening and occasional highpoints.

There are scripted encounters with splicers that you'll witness, and certain animations which can be touching, but if, for example, ou kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

In fact, Bioshock offers little that's new in any area outside of its setting, and the much-vaunted Little Sister dilemma is an unmitigated failure. Games cannot offer moral choices, but they can create a moral context for your in-game actions. Bioshock doesn't, primarily because it quickly becomes clear that there is a 'right' option to choose and what that option is - but also because, if you play the game through twice, the effects of your actions are invisible, and even in the one location where they should be obvious have had no visual impact. Worst of all, the immediate results of your choice turns out to be a 'green blood moment'.


EDGE; That would be an unkind note to end on, because Bioshock offers a lot of quality beyond the problems that exist within it. But it's a game of 'if only'. If only the mechanics matched the atmosphere. If only Rapture was a less linear world to move through. If only Bioshock was the wholly brilliant experience you know, from your moments within it, it could have been.

It's not actually out in the UK as far as I'm aware. So I can't vouch for how accurate these quotes are. But generally speaking, there is no way in hell that Bioshock is the perfect game everyone is talking about. There's just so many things in bioshock that could have been (much) better, in the game.

Nickle

I've been on the fence about this myself. I've been interested in Bioshock for a while, but after seeing reactions (both good and bad), I'm torn. Granted, it's obvious that it has really sweet grafix, yo, but what does it really offer aside from that?

I've got people raving about it in one ear, and people complaining about lack of variety in the enemies, crap ai, linearity, and tons of other problems on the other, and I'm starting to thing the first group is just distracted by shiny things.

Please, set me straight.

Which also brings to mind another question, is there a split between people who want great graphics in an 8-hour game, or good graphics in a 20 hour game?

Kworn

Rook wrote: »

EDGE; Bioshock is one of the experiences of the year, but certainly not unreservedly. It's at once a joy and a disappointment, achingly ambitious and cravenly conservative, and ultimately a complete triumph in one sense and a nagging failure in several others

EDGE; Bioshock's problem is that it simply can't mantain a consistent standard outside of its exceptional opening and occasional highpoints.

There are scripted encounters with splicers that you'll witness, and certain animations which can be touching, but if, for example, ou kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

In fact, Bioshock offers little that's new in any area outside of its setting, and the much-vaunted Little Sister dilemma is an unmitigated failure. Games cannot offer moral choices, but they can create a moral context for your in-game actions. Bioshock doesn't, primarily because it quickly becomes clear that there is a 'right' option to choose and what that option is - but also because, if you play the game through twice, the effects of your actions are invisible, and even in the one location where they should be obvious have had no visual impact. Worst of all, the immediate results of your choice turns out to be a 'green blood moment'.


EDGE; That would be an unkind note to end on, because Bioshock offers a lot of quality beyond the problems that exist within it. But it's a game of 'if only'. If only the mechanics matched the atmosphere. If only Rapture was a less linear world to move through. If only Bioshock was the wholly brilliant experience you know, from your moments within it, it could have been.

It's not actually out in the UK as far as I'm aware. So I can't vouch for how accurate these quotes are. But generally speaking, there is no way in hell that Bioshock is the perfect game everyone is talking about. There's just so many things in bioshock that could have been (much) better, in the game.

I think you will find it is in the UK, I have had it since last friday.

Best game I have ever played, and I am fussy as hell with games.

etoychest

From the people I have spoken to who have read the review, it comes across as pretty fair (though I am guessing), and echoes some of my issues with the game. Not to say BioShock is not a good time, but the fun it offers goes in peaks and valleys. There are issues, which for the majority of coverage out there currently, have been conveniently glossed over. I need the issue to show up at Barnes & Noble so I can read it for myself.

LewieP

Edge is an interesting read, but I tend to differ in opinion from their reviews (and scores)

I find my opinion on lots of games is very very close to Eurogamer reviews. I will be buying BioShock as soon as I can afford to.

japan

I have to say, the comments sound pretty reasonable, and are about in line with what I would have expected from the game anyway. Whenever a new title is hyped to all hell like Bioshock has been (and I don't mean by advertisers, I mean more in the sense of frothing forumites) there's always a tide of opinion of the "ZOMG BEST GAEM EV4R!!!1!" variety, which rarely holds up for any length of time.

EDIT: Also, I checked in Borders Buchanan st. for it on my way home from work today, and they didn't have it yet, so it's probably not out everywhere.

Echo

I'm not done with Bioshock yet, but so far I'm hovering at about 8.5 out of 10.

PeekingDuck

Here's my review.

Gameplay is generally average, some neat plasmids, average AI.

Big daddy, little sister mechanic overrated.

Story and atmosphere are the best in any shooter I've ever played.

The people who are pissed were looking for the perfect game, well... it isn't perfect.

It is still the best thing to come out in a very long time.

I don't finish games anymore, I can't remember the last one I did finish before Bioshock.

Well, I finished Bioshock in four days playing pretty much as often as I could, but real life kept getting in the way.

Rook

japan wrote: »

I have to say, the comments sound pretty reasonable, and are about in line with what I would have expected from the game anyway. Whenever a new title is hyped to all hell like Bioshock has been (and I don't mean by advertisers, I mean more in the sense of frothing forumites) there's always a tide of opinion of the "ZOMG BEST GAEM EV4R!!!1!" variety, which rarely holds up for any length of time.

EDIT: Also, I checked in Borders Buchanan st. for it on my way home from work today, and they didn't have it yet, so it's probably not out everywhere.

Release date (according to the Edge Forumites) should be the 30th. Some places I'm sure get it sooner. I checked in WHSmiths yesterday and they still had the old issue.

There's a making of System Shock 2 featurette in it, which I'm looking forward to.

Kworn

The problem I have with the review is that they gloss over all the good things about Bioshock and make the niggly things stand out.

That is the first time I have ever read a review and got really mad while reading it.

Did they play the god damn game???

Kworn

Rook wrote: »

japan wrote: »

I have to say, the comments sound pretty reasonable, and are about in line with what I would have expected from the game anyway. Whenever a new title is hyped to all hell like Bioshock has been (and I don't mean by advertisers, I mean more in the sense of frothing forumites) there's always a tide of opinion of the "ZOMG BEST GAEM EV4R!!!1!" variety, which rarely holds up for any length of time.

EDIT: Also, I checked in Borders Buchanan st. for it on my way home from work today, and they didn't have it yet, so it's probably not out everywhere.

Release date (according to the Edge Forumites) should be the 30th. Some places I'm sure get it sooner. I checked in WHSmiths yesterday and they still had the old issue.

There's a making of System Shock 2 featurette in it, which I'm looking forward to.

That feature is ACE six pages I think

japan

Rook wrote: »

There's a making of System Shock 2 featurette in it, which I'm looking forward to.

OK, I'm definitely picking it up now.

Regarding the review, I really don't think there's anything in that which constitutes a "bashing", and 8 is a really good score. For the record, it seems from searching their review database that EDGE hasn't given out a score above 8 since issue 166, the new issue (with Bioshock in it) being issue 180.

hamburger helper

Phantom Hourglass got a 9 last month

urahonky

And people thought that Zelda fanboys were irrational.

Bioshock is a great game to me, but I can see how it wouldn't appeal to other people. It happens.

Lave II

I think your annoyance comes from the fact that EDGE scores on a scale of 1 to 10, rather than 6 to 10 like everyone else.

Not that I think they are perfect, by any means.

Rook

japan wrote: »

Rook wrote: »

There's a making of System Shock 2 featurette in it, which I'm looking forward to.

OK, I'm definitely picking it up now.

Regarding the review, I really don't think there's anything in that which constitutes a "bashing", and 8 is a really good score. For the record, it seems from searching their review database that EDGE hasn't given out a score above 8 since issue 166, the new issue (with Bioshock in it) being issue 180.

I'm 100% sure that's not even vaguely right.... I'll have a dig through my issues just to be sure, but stuff like Forza 2 got a 9 I think... I'm sure there have been plenty others.

edit: curse you hamburger helper

japan

hamburger helper wrote: »

Phantom Hourglass got a 9 last month

So it did. It was a quick 'n' dirty search of their score database, which has never been the most reliable of things. What I was getting at is that a 9 or a 10 is really pretty rare.

The_Scarab

Thread is made of lies.

They gave it an 8.

Just cause their review wasnt a collective fuck n suck doesnt mean they bashed it. They praised it but actually listed its faults that other reviews didnt.

As for the 8, an 8 in edge is a 10 anywhere else. We all know this.

Rami

I agree with all their complaints, I had the same feelings when playing through the game. It's enjoyable to be sure, but the game clearly has high points and then 'bits in-between the high points'. The whole Big Daddy/Little Sister thing was pretty boring, to hear them go on about it in interviews it was something miraculous. In game, it was little more than 2 NPCs that patrol the levels repeating the same 4 animations/speech clips over and over again.

The plasmids also felt disappointingly useless outside of basic puzzle solving like 'melt the ice', there's nothing inventive or clever you can do with them in combat, no chance for creative use of super powers. The lack variety in enemies also makes the game's combat become rather stale.

8/10 is about exactly the score I would give it. Setting/design/atmosphere, brilliant, it's really what makes it as enjoyable as it is. I have a feeling that if you removed the gameplay from that setting and put it in something more generic, it would feel like a not very good Star Wars game. Jedi Outcast certainly did the whole guns + super powers (+ lightsabre) thing a lot better, and that's a pretty old game now.

VoodooV

yeah. Tell me again why anyone should care that some magazine doesn't like a game as much as everyone else?

Hoz

Didn't they give the original Halo a 10? I don't want to get into cross-fanboy warfare but if they're so strict with their reviews then that should make any reasonable person go "What?"

Magic Pink

Kworn wrote: »

japan wrote: »

Haven't got this months yet, but I'll probably pick it up tomorrow.

What were their specific objections?

EDIT: and what was the score? To even get an 8 out of EDGE is something of an achievement.

Ok it got an 8, but if you read the review it would seem like they were heading for a 6-7. I think they changed the score at the last minute.

A few snippets from the review

"Bioshocks problem is that it simply cant maintain a consistent standard outside of its exceptional opening and occasional highpoints"

"The Environments are noticeably distinct, its perhaps the lack of variety within them that is most noticeable"

"Little sisters and Big Daddies dont Interact with the world in any believable way"

"Bioshock offers nothing new outside of it area of setting"

I'm sorry but a lot of the review I think is utter bullshit!!

There is a lot more to the review that is just WRONG but I need to sit here and type it all out

Except for the Big Daddies and Little Sisters not reacting I'd say it's pretty spot on.

galenblade

The inevitable counterpoint to this is the Variety review of Metroid Prime 3.

Whereas the EDGE review is a good critical look at Bioshock (IMO), the Variety one seems more misguided and uninformed. I think the EDGE one can be a good critique, but the Variety one skews further off the mark.

hamburger helper

The_Scarab wrote: »

Thread is made of lies.

They gave it an 8.

Mei Hikari

hamburger helper wrote: »

The_Scarab wrote: »

Thread is made of lies.

They gave it an 8.

Juxtaposing that image with your sig makes for some wild imagination...

NexusSix

kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

If I read this complaint one more time, I'm going to reach through the tubes and stab somebody in the eye with a pencil. This is addressed in-game, makes perfect sense within the game's reality, and works as a cool moral quandry as far as I'm concerned:

Sisters are Wolverine on speed--they can immediately regenerate even the gravest of wounds. They're living stem cell factories running at full capacity and high-speed production. The cannot be killed unless harvested. End of story.

Hells. :x

Guek

well that's a disappointment. The only reason Bioshock had me interested at all was because the developers spoke as if the world interaction made a sizable difference in the play experience. And if the AI and battle system is just mediocre then I can see why it would get an 8.

Not that I've played it yet, mind you. I'll have to see for myself in due time. If anything I'll play this game for the atmosphere. I was really blown away by how much praise this game was getting. It seemed...improbable, almost. Now I know not to have my hopes set to high going in and will most likely thoroughly enjoy the game.

on another note, this thread has actually gotten me more excited for phantom hourglass. weeeee

Hoz

NexusSix wrote: »

kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

If I read this complaint one more time, I'm going to reach through the tubes and stab somebody in the eye with a pencil. This is addressed in-game, makes perfect sense within the game's reality, and works as a cool moral quandry as far as I'm concerned:

Sisters are Wolverine on speed--they can immediately regenerate even the gravest of wounds. They're living stem cell factories running at full capacity and high-speed production. The cannot be killed unless harvested. End of story.

Hells. :x

Yeah they attack you just as they attack the big daddy first too. That was a stupid fucking complaint.

Mei Hikari

I'm sure they actually mean, why don't the splicers try to harvest her?

Shujaa

I stopped reading Edge when they decided to spoil the ending to STALKER for no apparent reason. And I don't mean a subtle hint or marked spoilers, I mean an image of the game with a caption reading "there are many different endings to stalker, all of which involve _______".

What the fuck.

They're all a bit pretentious over there tbh.

Guek

NexusSix wrote: »

kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

If I read this complaint one more time, I'm going to reach through the tubes and stab somebody in the eye with a pencil. This is addressed in-game, makes perfect sense within the game's reality, and works as a cool moral quandry as far as I'm concerned:

Sisters are Wolverine on speed--they can immediately regenerate even the gravest of wounds. They're living stem cell factories running at full capacity and high-speed production. The cannot be killed unless harvested. End of story.

Hells. :x

but the review says they dont even look at her? shouldn't they at least pay attention? or something? i haven't played the game, i'm just confused over the idea.

also:

Hoz wrote: »

Didn't they give the original Halo a 10? I don't want to get into cross-fanboy warfare but if they're so strict with their reviews then that should make any reasonable person go "What?"

halo deserved a 10 when it came out. Whoo! Let's get this fanboy fight goin!

VoodooV

I just can't be bothered to care because I don't understand why people like us even read reviews in the first place. Questionable ethics of some reviewers aside, its still just one person's opinion.

I listen to people here or on other forums or I play a demo. done.

Even if I do buy a game that I end up not really caring for. I just don't really consider it a big deal. unless its completely not fun for me, I usually just play it out anyway and try something new. or if worst comes to worst. I sell it.

I just don't understand this bipolarity that some people have that a game must either be the greatest thing in the world or "worst game evar!" And no matter what they come up with, all these rating systems for how good someone thinks a game seems so fundamentally flawed. If there must be reviews, then read the damn article, don't trust a stupid number.

Rook

Guek wrote: »

NexusSix wrote: »

kill a Big Daddy then leave the Little Sister next to her dead protector, surrounded by splicers who'll do anything for the Adam she holds, she won't be touched. In fact, the movement routine of splicers will merrily take them through her position, scraping their weapons on the floor and not even looking. The promise of interacting with a grand world in which you're surrounded by creatures with their own agendas is hollow.

If I read this complaint one more time, I'm going to reach through the tubes and stab somebody in the eye with a pencil. This is addressed in-game, makes perfect sense within the game's reality, and works as a cool moral quandry as far as I'm concerned:

Sisters are Wolverine on speed--they can immediately regenerate even the gravest of wounds. They're living stem cell factories running at full capacity and high-speed production. The cannot be killed unless harvested. End of story.

Hells. :x

but the review says they dont even look at her? shouldn't they at least pay attention? or something? i haven't played the game, i'm just confused over the idea.

Err, remember that bit in the opening level when a splicer sneaks up on a little sister? What do you think would normally happen next, he gives her some flowers and walks off?