To sugarcoat the Tiananmen square thing is ludicrously easy, and is routinely done. All you do is just show the student standing up to the tank, with the driver unsure of what to do and the whole chinese military machine unable to advance because this one kid believes in democracy and freedom so much. Its glorious, its heroic, you want to be that guy.
We see this part of the scene so much that people don't even really know that he most likely got taken away and killed, alongside 1000s of other people (well, between hundreds and thousands) and that his whole brave stance was absolutely futile.
Tiananmen square is easily one of the examples of the most sugarcoated events in human history.
There is, I think, a difference between "sugarcoating" and "romanticizing."
I don't know - less then you're implying I would say. In one version "oh man how heroic", in the other version "he was dealt with by the Chinese authorities later obviously".
I think he's right it's often and easly sugarcoated. I'll have to keep thinking.
Are you talking about the Dinsey movie? Because if so, that wasn't sugar coating, just plain stupid.
Maybe Mulan, what with the Mongols fighting the Imperial army, but that's a stretch. The Mongols didn't settle in China like the Europeans settled in America; Mulan had the invading forces and battles but not the culture clash, if I remember right.
The Little Mermaid had a theme of seduction, didn't it? The Ariel girl had to kiss the guy to win the bet and even had her Jamaican crab friend create mood music about getting to second base.
I once heard an uttelry creepy rape analogy about the little mermaid, its was something to do where her father discovers her cave and smashes everything up.
Even then, the story centres around a girl who gives up her voice in order to get a human body from the waist down, to win the affection of a guy. Its not hard to make puberty/sexual awakening comparsons to the whole plot.
You can sugarcoat racism by making the group you're hating on goofy or funny or harmless. Like those singing crows from Dumbo. "You eva see a house fly? I believe I seen about evrthing, when I's seen an elephant flyyy."
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
To sugarcoat the Tiananmen square thing is ludicrously easy, and is routinely done. All you do is just show the student standing up to the tank, with the driver unsure of what to do and the whole chinese military machine unable to advance because this one kid believes in democracy and freedom so much. Its glorious, its heroic, you want to be that guy.
We see this part of the scene so much that people don't even really know that he most likely got taken away and killed, alongside 1000s of other people (well, between hundreds and thousands) and that his whole brave stance was absolutely futile.
Tiananmen square is easily one of the examples of the most sugarcoated events in human history.
There is, I think, a difference between "sugarcoating" and "romanticizing."
I don't know - less then you're implying I would say. In one version "oh man how heroic", in the other version "he was dealt with by the Chinese authorities later obviously".
If you want to go seriously creepy, try and sugarcoat eugenics. People like to make off-hand remarks about it. Like they want to live in a world where your right to live and procreate is predetermined and totally unknown to you.
Most people have one unfavorable gene variant or the other. Some are really rare, and only give problems when your partner has the same variant and passes it as well as you to your child (recessive), so you might never know. Other symptoms might only show up when you get older. People can act so stupidly confident of their pedigree it is insulting.
On the other hand. There is a novel approach to eugenics that works on the principle of the carrot instead of the stick. With a complex procedure, you can already gene-type sperm cells (not sure about eggs) before fertilization. This circumvents the whole 'baby-killer' conundrum, so I imagine insurance companies will want to pay for such procedures in the future.
Doesn't take away the 'Star Trek' arguments against such 'positive eugenics' however. Not having a genetic disease your father could have given to you hardly sets you apart from normal humans. But not ever getting sick is (morally) a small step from that. Will we go further and make superhumans? Will they go all 'KHAAAN!' on us? Would regulation hamper our development as a species? Is this massively off-topic?
Think it is sorry about that. Blame my train of thought, it wont stay on track
But seriously. I'm sure Hitler did do some things right that the Weimar-republik didn't (they got some things wrong). I believe unemployment was at an all time low once the war got started. :P
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
You idiot, that story was explicitly anti-racist, using simple imagery to demonstrate how silly the idea is.
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
You idiot, that story was explicitly anti-racist, using simple imagery to demonstrate how silly the idea is.
There was also that butter-side down vs butter-side up one about nuclear holocaust with a healthy dosage of Dr Strangelove.
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
You idiot, that story was explicitly anti-racist, using simple imagery to demonstrate how silly the idea is.
You have to explain racism in the first half before you can explain anti-racism in the second half. All the first half was was acknowledging that one physical appearance is superior to another while some guy with a wacky machine profited the whole time. I don't know why those Sneeches didn't beat the crap out of that troublemaker and demand their money back by the end.
I'm going to watch that episode where the Simpsons travel to Australia but I'll scowl the whole time. :x
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
You idiot, that story was explicitly anti-racist, using simple imagery to demonstrate how silly the idea is.
You have to explain racism in the first half before you can explain anti-racism in the second half. All the first half was was acknowledging that one physical appearance is superior to another while some guy with a wacky machine profited the whole time. I don't know why those Sneeches didn't beat the crap out of that troublemaker and demand their money back by the end.
Man what?
I got the satire when I was a kid the first time I read that book.
The "Duck and Cover" video is only a small part of the horror of the nuclear war propaganda. "Atomic Cafe" is an excellent documentary that is almost all simply clips from propaganda of the period that i reccomend to everyone.
One involves a kid in a hazmat suit being taught to ride a bike by his dad. He falls over and it's horrible and hilarious.
The "Duck and Cover" video is only a small part of the horror of the nuclear war propaganda. "Atomic Cafe" is an excellent documentary that is almost all simply clips from propaganda of the period that i reccomend to everyone.
One involves a kid in a hazmat suit being taught to ride a bike by his dad. He falls over and it's horrible and hilarious.
You know, it's how it poked fun of this propaganda that made me The Iron Giant so much.
Watch those Sneetches again. The inventor is playing off of racial insecurities and, while the sneetches learn their lesson by the end (we're all equal no matter what we look like on the outside), that's like a minute of a twenty minute show.
In case anyone is interested, the picture was of a guy hit by a sniper round, and missing most of his head. Point being, you might be able to sugarcoat war as a vague concept (Hollywood certainly tries its hardest); you can't do it face to ex-face.
Apparently this is too shocking for most people, but on the other hand, if they were exposed to the nasty side a little more, they might not be so gung-ho & casual about sending soldiers off to conflicts like the ones we're in, and might show a little more respect when they get back. Worth a jailing methinks.
Fawkes on
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Gabriel_Pitt(effective against Russian warships)Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
Yes, because the Penny-Arcade forums are a seething pit of pro-War and send more troops to Iraq sentiment.
You have brought light to a place long dark good sir! We salute your sacrifice for the cause! *golf clap*
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited September 2007
What the fuck is wrong with you, Fawkes?
Also, a general note to our forumers, for those of you with autism or something: we're not a haven for pictures of dismembered bodies or snuff flicks. Torn-up corpses qualify as "shock images" the same way as prolapsed rectums.
Posts
I think he's right it's often and easly sugarcoated. I'll have to keep thinking.
I once heard an uttelry creepy rape analogy about the little mermaid, its was something to do where her father discovers her cave and smashes everything up.
Even then, the story centres around a girl who gives up her voice in order to get a human body from the waist down, to win the affection of a guy. Its not hard to make puberty/sexual awakening comparsons to the whole plot.
Scientology is routinely sugercoated. Its known primarily as "that kooky religion that Tom Cruise goes crazy for, ho ho ho"
Dr. Seuss also had those yellow monsters with the stars on their bellies. I forget what they're called but that helps makes the concept of racism digestible for kids.
That wasn't a student.
That was an office worker.
"Sugarcoating" is more like making a euphemism.
I believe that was superbad, where the tank man is a cock drawing.
Most people have one unfavorable gene variant or the other. Some are really rare, and only give problems when your partner has the same variant and passes it as well as you to your child (recessive), so you might never know. Other symptoms might only show up when you get older. People can act so stupidly confident of their pedigree it is insulting.
On the other hand. There is a novel approach to eugenics that works on the principle of the carrot instead of the stick. With a complex procedure, you can already gene-type sperm cells (not sure about eggs) before fertilization. This circumvents the whole 'baby-killer' conundrum, so I imagine insurance companies will want to pay for such procedures in the future.
Doesn't take away the 'Star Trek' arguments against such 'positive eugenics' however. Not having a genetic disease your father could have given to you hardly sets you apart from normal humans. But not ever getting sick is (morally) a small step from that. Will we go further and make superhumans? Will they go all 'KHAAAN!' on us? Would regulation hamper our development as a species? Is this massively off-topic?
You can't do it, you just can't.
But seriously. I'm sure Hitler did do some things right that the Weimar-republik didn't (they got some things wrong). I believe unemployment was at an all time low once the war got started. :P
Are you kidding?
Have you seen Little Nicky?
People -love- to turn old enemies into lovable comedic caricatures. Especially ones with cute mustaches.
--
Baby Stewie would be another candidate.
You idiot, that story was explicitly anti-racist, using simple imagery to demonstrate how silly the idea is.
I keed, I keed.
Rape-Bo!
You have to explain racism in the first half before you can explain anti-racism in the second half. All the first half was was acknowledging that one physical appearance is superior to another while some guy with a wacky machine profited the whole time. I don't know why those Sneeches didn't beat the crap out of that troublemaker and demand their money back by the end.
I'm going to watch that episode where the Simpsons travel to Australia but I'll scowl the whole time. :x
EDIT: Nuclear holocaust sugarcoated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BAdYk89UlI
Man what?
I got the satire when I was a kid the first time I read that book.
How do you not get it?
EDIT: Jesus christ that video is scary beyond all reason.
One involves a kid in a hazmat suit being taught to ride a bike by his dad. He falls over and it's horrible and hilarious.
You know, it's how it poked fun of this propaganda that made me
Now I don't want any more confusion about the Tank Man, OK?
@ 59:00
*removed*
It seems like a remarkably good idea to reduce wear and tear on the face. Perhaps you should try it?
And since I'm not sure if the term 'sugarcoated' has actually been correctly used more than once or twice in this thread, sugar-coated Hitler.
Apparently this is too shocking for most people, but on the other hand, if they were exposed to the nasty side a little more, they might not be so gung-ho & casual about sending soldiers off to conflicts like the ones we're in, and might show a little more respect when they get back. Worth a jailing methinks.
You have brought light to a place long dark good sir! We salute your sacrifice for the cause! *golf clap*
Also, a general note to our forumers, for those of you with autism or something: we're not a haven for pictures of dismembered bodies or snuff flicks. Torn-up corpses qualify as "shock images" the same way as prolapsed rectums.