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iPod touch, iPhone, and the future of printed books

QinguQingu Registered User regular
edited September 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
Apple just announced the iPod Touch, which is basically a phoneless version of their iPhone. To me, the most notable thing about both of these devices is how easy it is to use them to read and navigate the internet.

Assuming both devices (and their imitators) take off reasonably well, lots of people are going to be sitting in coffee shops and college quads reading websites on their iPhones/Pods. And if more cities start to have universal wireless, lots of people are going to be reading their iPhones/Pods on the buses and trains.

So, books. A lot of people I've talked to say that books (and sometimes, newspapers) will never go away, because people just intrinsically like to have a printed page in front of them. There is a certain "feel" to a printed, physical page that can't be emulated on a computer screen.

But what exactly is this special feeling you get from reading books, as opposed to a computer monitor? Readibility may be part of it, but not a huge part—bright modern monitors are probably easier to see than print books in some circumstances (like dark rooms, obviously). I think portability is a huge part of why people like books—they are easy to pick up, carry around, maneuver into a new position when your arm gets tired, stuff in a backpack, etc. Also, I think people simply like the tactile experience of turning pages. Turning pages is, for example, a lot more fun than rolling and unrolling a scroll—they separate the text into discreet parts and stopping points, and they also serve to conceal from the reader what happens a few paragraphs after the one you're reading (unless, of course, you skip ahead to see what happens).

In its first iteration, the iPhone and iPod touch seem to match books in all these things. It's obviously just as portable as a book. And unlike other PDAs and handheld internet devices, websites are very readible and easy to navigate on the iPhone.

As for the tactile experience of turning pages, the touchscreen could, in theory, give a similar sort of experience. The problem now is that online writing is not really structured like print writing. E-books simply look like shit. They are either blurry, scanned-in pdfs of print book pages, or else they are long columns of html text that simply becomes boring to scroll through, even if they're broken up into chapters. A further problem with online writing is that shit simply looks different—paragraphs and dialogue are spaced differently with much more white space in online than in print. This has a subtle but noticeable effect on the reader.

On the other hand, I think certain websites are just as easy to read as books, because they have evolved to structure themselves around the internet format (as opposed to the printed page format). Clicking on links, for example, has a similar sort of effect as turning a book's page—it's a form of physical interaction that serves to advance the narrative of whatever you're reading. I think this is why it's so easy and often pleasurable to click through dozens of interlinked Wikipedia articles.

The problem with online books is that their authors have not yet learned to structure the text with the online format in mind. But once they do, I think the days of the printed book are numbered.

Qingu on
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Posts

  • CasketCasket __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Without books politicians and professors and scientists won't be able to look smart in pictures and video because the bookshelves behind them will be empty.

    Casket on
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  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I will always prefer to read something by light reflecting off it than light passing through it or from it into my eyes.

    Also books are neat and you can have a bookshelf/shelves.

    Alternatively, you can have an ipod sitting on a coffee table somewhere. :(

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Reading off of a screen for an extended time hurts my eyes.

    Couscous on
  • IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Personally, the only problem I have with our current implementation and delivery of digital print media is that it's not as browsing-friendly as traditional print media. For example, if I want to find a new book to read but have no idea what book I want, I would go to a brick-and-mortar bookstore and walk around the shelves and see if anything catches my eye. Same thing with newspaper articles.

    Another thing is the current method of viewing digital print media: eye-strain. Many people find it more stressful to read a back-lit LCD screen than a printed page. Though, at the most recent SIGGRAPH, I saw an exhibition of hand-held displays that are being developed to address that problem right now, which will probably enter the consumer market in the near-future.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2007
    Books are easy on my eyes, and I'm unlikely to give them up for a bright screen.

    Qingu wrote: »
    The problem with online books is that their authors have not yet learned to structure the text with the online format in mind. But once they do, I think the days of the printed book are numbered.

    Uh, I'm not really sure what an 'online book' is; care to expand on that a bit?

    Are you talking about online enhancements, like citation links that would talk you straight to whatever it is that's being cited?

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Will they smell like books too? I don't want my nostalgic memories triggered by white plastic.

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • MurphyMurphy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Damn it, my words have all left me this evening. I know what I want to say, but I'm having trouble saying it.

    Basically, I wouldn't count out the printed word just yet. There is a lot to be said for the tactile sensations of reading a book. There is a certain visceral pleasure involved with curling up on a cold autumn morning with a cup of coffee and a good book. There is a similar pleasure involved with being in a room full of books. On shelves, stacked haphazardly on the floor and on tables, and what have you.

    Not that there aren't certainly leaps to be made on the electronic reading front, but for a lot of people (myself included), it will take more than a portable screen that fits in my pocket for me to switch to electronic reading full time.

    Murphy on
  • MorninglordMorninglord I'm tired of being Batman, so today I'll be Owl.Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I can definitely see it being used in business and school environments though.

    Just not leisure.

    The other thing about a good set of bookshelves is that it allows people to scan at glance what you read, and thus give opportunities to strike up conversations. Oh pratchett? I like pratchett. You remember that....etc

    Morninglord on
    (PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I really like printed books, but I also really like reading things on my computer as well.

    I would think that textbooks would be a prime target for electronic books, especially if they involve some sort of search capability.

    (And I really want Apple to come out with a touch screen tablet laptop)

    mrflippy on
  • QinguQingu Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Elki wrote: »
    Books are easy on my eyes, and I'm unlikely to give them up for a bright screen.
    But you have to admit it's possible that in ten or so years this might not be an issue anymore. Look at how much better screens have gotten in the past five years alone!
    Uh, I'm not really sure what an 'online book' is; care to expand on that a bit?

    Are you talking about online enhancements, like citation links that would talk you straight to whatever it is that's being cited?
    I really just meant any book that is available to read online.

    Honestly, I don't think any true "online books" have been written yet, as far as books actually written with the medium in mind. (Soon to change, if I ever get off my ass and finish my online book!)

    Qingu on
  • CasketCasket __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Murphy wrote: »
    There is a certain visceral pleasure involved with curling up on a cold autumn morning with a cup of coffee and a good book.

    Man thats super cliche. I hear this all the time when people talk about the advantages of books, but I'm convinced no one ever really does this. You'd either spill coffee after five minutes or your back would start hurting or you would sit down in a much better position suited for reading.

    Casket on
    casketiisigih1.png
  • MurphyMurphy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Electronic textbooks would be pretty damn nifty. Of course, that would require that all students have a laptop or computer of some kind, but that's almost a requirement now, so it's not that huge a step.

    But as Morninglord mentioned above, for pleasure reading, nothing beats a traditional book (at least for me).

    Murphy on
  • DVGDVG No. 1 Honor Student Nether Institute, Evil AcademyRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    As I generally see it, the problem with eBooks has been that performance on PDFs/Acrobat Reader is pretty crappy. Thus, there is a larger break in immersion when changing pages that isn't existent in physical books.

    DVG on
    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    But you have to admit it's possible that in ten or so years this might not be an issue anymore. Look at how much better screens have gotten in the past five years alone!
    That doesn't mean that it will happen. If audio books haven't supplanted print books, why should ebooks eventually supplant them?

    Couscous on
  • CasketCasket __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Here's my idea for eBooks.

    You flash 1 word on the screen at a time. Very big. The time it stays on the screen has some relation to the length of the world. So basically, reading through a book would consist of a steady stream of words quickly appearing and getting replaced on the screen. This will be great for technical books. You can read quickly because there is no time to pronounce and the better you get at reading like this the faster you can have the words go. So eventually some day you may be able to read at blazing fast speeds.


    COOL?

    Casket on
    casketiisigih1.png
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    But you have to admit it's possible that in ten or so years this might not be an issue anymore. Look at how much better screens have gotten in the past five years alone!
    That doesn't mean that it will happen. If audio books haven't supplanted print books, why should ebooks eventually supplant them?

    Audio books are fundamentally different because you're not actually reading the book. Ebooks are much closer to real books.

    mrflippy on
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Casket wrote: »
    Here's my idea for eBooks.

    You flash 1 word on the screen at a time. Very big. The time it stays on the screen has some relation to the length of the world. So basically, reading through a book would consist of a steady stream of words quickly appearing and getting replaced on the screen. This will be great for technical books. You can read quickly because there is no time to pronounce and the better you get at reading like this the faster you can have the words go. So eventually some day you may be able to read at blazing fast speeds.


    COOL?
    I hope you're joking, because that sounds horrid. (Especially for technical books)

    mrflippy on
  • MurphyMurphy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Casket wrote: »
    Here's my idea for eBooks.

    You flash 1 word on the screen at a time. Very big. The time it stays on the screen has some relation to the length of the world. So basically, reading through a book would consist of a steady stream of words quickly appearing and getting replaced on the screen. This will be great for technical books. You can read quickly because there is no time to pronounce and the better you get at reading like this the faster you can have the words go. So eventually some day you may be able to read at blazing fast speeds.


    COOL?
    Who would determine the speed? Also, that sounds like it would be obnoxious. I already read at blazing fast speeds, and don't need any electronic assistance.

    Murphy on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    mrflippy wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    But you have to admit it's possible that in ten or so years this might not be an issue anymore. Look at how much better screens have gotten in the past five years alone!
    That doesn't mean that it will happen. If audio books haven't supplanted print books, why should ebooks eventually supplant them?

    Audio books are fundamentally different because you're not actually reading the book. Ebooks are much closer to real books.

    So ebooks will supplant regular books because they will be pretty much the same with a slightly different format?

    Most of the stuff I have seen that might make ebooks popular are about emulating print books as much as possible. For example, electronic paper.

    Couscous on
  • CasketCasket __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Murphy wrote: »
    Casket wrote: »
    Here's my idea for eBooks.

    You flash 1 word on the screen at a time. Very big. The time it stays on the screen has some relation to the length of the world. So basically, reading through a book would consist of a steady stream of words quickly appearing and getting replaced on the screen. This will be great for technical books. You can read quickly because there is no time to pronounce and the better you get at reading like this the faster you can have the words go. So eventually some day you may be able to read at blazing fast speeds.


    COOL?
    Who would determine the speed? Also, that sounds like it would be obnoxious. I already read at blazing fast speeds, and don't need any electronic assistance.

    You would. Through adjustable sliders and settings. It's just variables you see. You change them until you read at speeds you like.

    Casket on
    casketiisigih1.png
  • tdonlantdonlan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    wrote a psuedo-review of reading ebooks on iPod here: http://www.daydalus.net/blog/?postid=140
    The beauty of books is their portability. They don't require power supplies. Reading directly from the computer screen was doable, but I needed something more versatile. Some sort of portable device with a decent sized screen, mechanism to scroll through pages...

    iPod! Specifically it's Notes feature.

    Fortunately, someone else had the same idea and created this handy site for converting txt files to iPod Notes files (http://www.ambience.sk/ipod-ebook-creator/ipod-book-notes-text-conversion.php)

    The output is a zip package of a few dozen binary files. Copy the unzipped directory to the NOTES folder on the iPod. Then navigate to Notes. Behold!

    The font is very readable, although keeping the backlight on is a must, even in direct light. Each note "page" is probably 2-3 pages in a real book (600 page novel = 275 notes), but can be read surprisingly fast. I found that scrolling through each note breaks up the monotony of seeing a huge chunk of text on the printed page.

    There are a few primary drawbacks over real books. It's great to listen to music while reading an ebook, but the navigation isn't as nice as it could be. While playing a song, the screen will default to the song meter. You'll have to touch the clickwheel to bring back the note. Also, changing songs requires navigating up a level, out of the notes.

    Saving places is also a pain. The notes will remember you opened up Note number 5, for example, but it won't remember you clicked over to note 10 while reading. Next time you open the Notes "application" you'll be back on Note 5. The equivalent of a bookmark would be incredibly helpful.

    For simply rendering pure text, the notes are also pretty slow. First time you drop a full book onto the iPod hard drive, the software has to "cache" each note into memory, which can take a minute or two. Switching between pages also has a bit of lag. And finally, playing music and reading ebooks drains the battery rapidly. Doesn't help that the backlight is basically required for reading.

    tdonlan on
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  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    mrflippy wrote: »
    titmouse wrote: »
    But you have to admit it's possible that in ten or so years this might not be an issue anymore. Look at how much better screens have gotten in the past five years alone!
    That doesn't mean that it will happen. If audio books haven't supplanted print books, why should ebooks eventually supplant them?

    Audio books are fundamentally different because you're not actually reading the book. Ebooks are much closer to real books.

    So ebooks will supplant regular books because they will be pretty much the same with a slightly different format?

    Most of the stuff I have seen that might make ebooks popular are about emulating print books as much as possible. For example, electronic paper.
    My actual point was that audio books are not a very good comparison because they are fundamentally too different. (Though, to be fair, something that gave you knowledge instantly a la The Matrix might supplant books even though it's fundamentally different, but I think many people would still want books for the experience)

    mrflippy on
  • MurphyMurphy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    That still doesn't help because of the way some people read. I mean, I don't read one word at a time unless I'm intentionally reading really slowly (like, if I'm reading aloud or something).

    Murphy on
  • tdonlantdonlan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Casket wrote: »
    Murphy wrote: »
    Casket wrote: »
    Here's my idea for eBooks.

    You flash 1 word on the screen at a time. Very big. The time it stays on the screen has some relation to the length of the world. So basically, reading through a book would consist of a steady stream of words quickly appearing and getting replaced on the screen. This will be great for technical books. You can read quickly because there is no time to pronounce and the better you get at reading like this the faster you can have the words go. So eventually some day you may be able to read at blazing fast speeds.


    COOL?
    Who would determine the speed? Also, that sounds like it would be obnoxious. I already read at blazing fast speeds, and don't need any electronic assistance.

    You would. Through adjustable sliders and settings. It's just variables you see. You change them until you read at speeds you like.

    Someone already made that: http://www.spreeder.com/

    tdonlan on
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  • CalciumCalcium Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Not to sound like I'm pushing a product, but if something like the Microsoft Surface hits the mainstream populace, and allows you to interface with a lightweight mobile device that allows you to transfer information such as an ebook in between, then I can indeed see the crude mass of paper that is a book becoming rapidly obsolete.

    I mean if an ebook or two can be spread over the surface of a table, what need do we have for paper?

    Calcium on
  • tdonlantdonlan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Calcium wrote: »
    Not to sound like I'm pushing a product, but if something like the Microsoft Surface hits the mainstream populace, and allows you to interface with a lightweight mobile device that allows you to transfer information such as an ebook in between, then I can indeed see the crude mass of paper that is a book becoming rapidly obsolete.

    I mean if an ebook or two can be spread over the surface of a table, what need do we have for paper?

    um...reading on the couch, the beach, the train...

    tdonlan on
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  • CalciumCalcium Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    tdonlan wrote: »
    Calcium wrote: »
    Not to sound like I'm pushing a product, but if something like the Microsoft Surface hits the mainstream populace, and allows you to interface with a lightweight mobile device that allows you to transfer information such as an ebook in between, then I can indeed see the crude mass of paper that is a book becoming rapidly obsolete.

    I mean if an ebook or two can be spread over the surface of a table, what need do we have for paper?

    um...reading on the couch, the beach, the train...

    Hence the lightweight mobile device.

    Calcium on
  • IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    tdonlan wrote: »
    Calcium wrote: »
    Not to sound like I'm pushing a product, but if something like the Microsoft Surface hits the mainstream populace, and allows you to interface with a lightweight mobile device that allows you to transfer information such as an ebook in between, then I can indeed see the crude mass of paper that is a book becoming rapidly obsolete.

    I mean if an ebook or two can be spread over the surface of a table, what need do we have for paper?

    um...reading on the couch, the beach, the train...

    I think his point is you can toss your ebooks onto MS Surface to have them lying around, and then pick them up with your hand-held reader when you decide you want to read one. It does sound like a pretty fun idea. I think interactive displays will go a long way towards closing the gap between e-shopping and brick-and-mortar stores. If, for example, you had an interactive wall display (like 5'x5'), then you can just make virtual bookstores that you can browse from the comfort of your own home.

    P.S. Anyone else here go to SIGGRAPH? Did you guys catch that demo video of the interactive display? How awesome is that?! :D I want to like cover all my walls with that.

    IreneDAdler on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Perhaps some more detail:

    Why do I like printed books over electronic books? Mostly it's the experience. Feature-wise, electronic books (can be) superior in every way, except perhaps in the not-needing-power department. If I have a document on my computer, I can easily and quickly search that document, copy from it, resize the pages or the text, and many other things that I simply cannot do with standard printed books.

    But I still really like reading books.

    And, then, in the back of my head I see an image of Picard (or someone) sitting down in a comfortable chair, sipping a cup of tea, and reading off of a small portable electronic device.

    I think that there are a few reasons that audio books will not replace real (or electronic) books. First, the experience is fundamentally different. Reading a book is participating, while listening to a book is spectating. Secondly, I can't as easily search, scan, reread, or study the book. I don't even know how a technical book about, say, programming algorithms would work as an audio book. How would you represent the complex mathematical equations or program code? I just don't see that happening.

    And, you'll never have an audio coffee table book. :P

    mrflippy on
  • enc0reenc0re Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Books:
    user interface
    battery life
    robustness
    readability
    resale value

    eBooks:
    storage capacity
    search
    text transferability

    So yeah, for reference works eBooks are great.

    Anything that's read sequentially in its entirety? Dead tree please!

    enc0re on
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    enc0re wrote: »
    Books:
    user interface
    battery life
    robustness
    readability
    resale value

    eBooks:
    storage capacity
    search
    text transferability

    So yeah, for reference works eBooks are great.

    Anything that's read sequentially in its entirety? Dead tree please!
    I think I disagree on user interface, robustness, and readability. User interface is awfully subjective, paper back books aren't very robust, and I can change the font or size of my text on a computer. (Depending on the program used of course)

    mrflippy on
  • AdrienAdrien Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'd be delighted to test a paperback book against any handheld device you care to put up in the bath/car/second-story-window triathlon.

    Adrien on
    tmkm.jpg
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Ok, robustness maybe. I suppose I was thinking more along the lines of data storage rather than the actual medium of representation.

    mrflippy on
  • Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator Mod Emeritus
    edited September 2007
    eInk is supposedly high-contrast and provides reflective images as opposed to backlit transmissive images. It's at a pretty high resolution, and once the image is "written" onto the surface, it supposedly is persistent without having to refresh the screen or using much (if any) power. It's apparently a pretty neat technology, and is improving fairly rapidly.

    Irond Will on
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  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Unless the Touch's screen gained a couple thousand DPI overnight, the book is safe.

    Plus the whole tactile and my book never needs to be plugged in things

    Senjutsu on
  • MumblyfishMumblyfish Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I'm surprised that the astronomical difference in cost has not yet been mentioned. Any popular book, in paperback, can be yours for mere pennies. Unless the world has changed substantially in the last twenty minutes, iPods and their ilk are sickeningly expensive and will remain so for many years to come. And let us not forget the multitude of libraries which, wonders that they are, will give you all the books you want for £Fuck All; I do not see the government handing me free PDAs in the foreseeable future, even if the Monster Raving Looney Party were to make a bid for power.

    Mumblyfish on
  • mrflippymrflippy Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mumblyfish wrote: »
    I'm surprised that the astronomical difference in cost has not yet been mentioned. Any popular book, in paperback, can be yours for mere pennies. Unless the world has changed substantially in the last twenty minutes, iPods and their ilk are sickeningly expensive and will remain so for many years to come. And let us not forget the multitude of libraries which, wonders that they are, will give you all the books you want for £Fuck All; I do not see the government handing me free PDAs in the foreseeable future, even if the Monster Raving Looney Party were to make a bid for power.

    That's not really a fair comparison. Paperback books are usually cheap, but one wouldn't be buying a PDA per book, so the cost of the viewing device is a one-time thing. But you are correct. iPods and PDAs are quite expensive, and are not a good way to read books. I would rather have a dedicated viewer or larger tablet device. Many books are much more expensive than paperbacks as well.

    I just did some searching for ebook readers, and there are a whole lot more out there than I expected. Why is this? Why have I not heard of them? I'd probably be receptive to the idea of using a book reader, but nobody has advertised them to me.

    mrflippy on
  • NerissaNerissa Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Unless you can give me a portable screen with a display at least the size of a page in an average paperback, I will always prefer the print books.

    I've tried to read an e-book on my Palm, and it was amazingly annoying -- you only get like a half a paragraph at a time before you have to scroll down, and then it's in this tiny font that's hard on the eyes. If you make the font bigger, you get maybe a sentence at a time, if you're lucky.

    And that's in addition to the light source & power problems that have been already mentioned.

    Nerissa on
  • InquisitorInquisitor Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I can see one large incentive for writers/book publishers to not go digital.

    Just imagine how easy it would be to pirate literature, they were just big text documents anyway.

    Inquisitor on
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