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Stop camping noob
Hotlead Junkie
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I don't play a lot of VS multiplayer games, because I like to find the most efficient, safest way of winning a match of something, and if that involves waiting in the same spot for 10 minutes because I have a 100% clear view of the surrounding area and there is no way for the enemy to sneak up on me (Rainbow 6 vegas and Gears being two), in most cases I'll wait there for the other player/s to decide to get bored and start looking for me, then I'll pop them in the head when they appear and usually get shouted at/booted for camping, or just leave because of the verbal abuse.
I use 'cheap' combos in fighting games too, I'll find the 'safest', most damaging combo, hopefully one that locks the other player into a stun and just continue doing that. It's the game that should be blamed if that tactic is impossible to get out of, not the player for taking advantage of the game's mechanics to win (most of the time 'winning' being the point of playing and improving your skills).
So, am I wrong for wanting to do what it takes to win and am I wrong by thinking that my opponents should be easily be able to find a way to change their playstyles slightly if they have trouble beating me? I jjst get the feeling a lot of people who play games such as Vegas and Gears a lot are used to playing with other people who just like to run out and kill as fast as possible and hate it when they have to change their 'winning' playstyle because people don't play how they want them to play. This the reason I don't acually own GoW as with R6's terrorist hunt mode is a lot more fun for me as you NEED to use these kind of tactics to win most of the time.
In other games when people order you not to use sniper rifles or rocket launchers because you keep killing them. Learn to hide you idiots and stop blaming me because your 'run at the enemy all guns blazing' tactic doesn't work with a patient guy, hidden away with a sniper rifle or shield. Try to think of where I could be, play mind games with me, telling me that you 'know' I'm in the east side of the map under a barrel, wheras you actually know I'm in the tower on the north. I'll be distracted, looking for you running to the east side while you take the long route around and shoot me in the head from behind. I will congratulate you for that awesome kill and will be much warier and have a lot more respect for that player.
I mean, I son't always just use the hiding tactic, I'll leave cover and find a new spot or weapon if it is the wisest choice, for example, I need armour, the enemy knows where my hidey hole is, etc.
It just feels like 90% of people I play online games with of this nature all think the same damn way, if you aren't running around like a headless chicken with a heavy machinegun you shouldn't be playing this game. It's actually worse if I win the game as I have to tell them it's a viable tacic, it works and need to give them advice on how to beat someone who does that, then they just get abusive. Am I the only one who thinks like this?
I use 'cheap' combos in fighting games too, I'll find the 'safest', most damaging combo, hopefully one that locks the other player into a stun and just continue doing that. It's the game that should be blamed if that tactic is impossible to get out of, not the player for taking advantage of the game's mechanics to win (most of the time 'winning' being the point of playing and improving your skills).
So, am I wrong for wanting to do what it takes to win and am I wrong by thinking that my opponents should be easily be able to find a way to change their playstyles slightly if they have trouble beating me? I jjst get the feeling a lot of people who play games such as Vegas and Gears a lot are used to playing with other people who just like to run out and kill as fast as possible and hate it when they have to change their 'winning' playstyle because people don't play how they want them to play. This the reason I don't acually own GoW as with R6's terrorist hunt mode is a lot more fun for me as you NEED to use these kind of tactics to win most of the time.
In other games when people order you not to use sniper rifles or rocket launchers because you keep killing them. Learn to hide you idiots and stop blaming me because your 'run at the enemy all guns blazing' tactic doesn't work with a patient guy, hidden away with a sniper rifle or shield. Try to think of where I could be, play mind games with me, telling me that you 'know' I'm in the east side of the map under a barrel, wheras you actually know I'm in the tower on the north. I'll be distracted, looking for you running to the east side while you take the long route around and shoot me in the head from behind. I will congratulate you for that awesome kill and will be much warier and have a lot more respect for that player.
I mean, I son't always just use the hiding tactic, I'll leave cover and find a new spot or weapon if it is the wisest choice, for example, I need armour, the enemy knows where my hidey hole is, etc.
It just feels like 90% of people I play online games with of this nature all think the same damn way, if you aren't running around like a headless chicken with a heavy machinegun you shouldn't be playing this game. It's actually worse if I win the game as I have to tell them it's a viable tacic, it works and need to give them advice on how to beat someone who does that, then they just get abusive. Am I the only one who thinks like this?
Hotlead Junkie on
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If the way that you play makes the game not fun anymore for other people, then you are being a dick.
I go all out with guns a blazing... and hope I get a kill or two, it's more fun if you do it that way. At least to me it is.
If I'm playing Strikers Charged! against someone online, and I see that their team is Waluigi and Dry Bones x3, I know they're going to either stun my goalie and put in the rebound, or deke their way through the goalie and just tap the ball in the net. If I'm playing NHL, and it's a shootout, it's terrible the number of people that will skate back and forth in front of the net for 30 seconds just to abuse timid goalie AI.
Don't even get me started on Plasma Pistol combos in H2, which I really should have no problem with cause all it requires is knowing where cover is, but god it gets frustrating.
Campers are alright, grenades can bounce after all.
I mean, okay, okay, in deathmatch maybe it's not all that fun to have to search out for some jackass, but if I'm defending my fucking flag in CTF, and you call me a "camping noob", well what the fuck is that shit?
that's the fun part for who?
If you're spamming thesame thingover and over that is the opposite of improvising, and if your oponant is cursing at you, I don't think he agrees on whatthe fun parts are.
As for the fighting game thing, sure, it isn't your fault there are combos that can't be broken. Nor is it super jumpers fault that super jumps exist. There are however dozens of ways to win that don't involve just spamming the same move, and you know what? It makes feel all warm and fuzzy when I win by doing something creative and skillful instead of just hoping I get my unbalanced combo off before the other guy does.
Ah, but the fact is I'm not doing this purposfully to 'be a dick', I'm doing it for the same reason a lot of them are doing it, to win, I'm just not the type of guy who would rather rely on adreynaline and quick reflexes, I'd rather sum up my options and play safe. I guess I just enjoy these kinds of games in a different way to the rest of the players do. I like being patient and being efficient and sneaky, much more satisfying (and easier for me) than running out and gunning down my opponents with heavy weapons
If I can use the same move over and over, and the guy I'm playing against still can't anticipate and counter, whose fucking fault is that?
It's possible to unintentionally be a dick.
It's alright if that's how you like to play it, but if you find that most people want to play it differently, my advice is to go find other people that like your play method, and play with them.
You don't have to change what's fun for YOU, but if you know thatyou are ruining the joy of the game for everyone else you really ought to be looking for a way to, you know, not be a dick, rather than complaining that it's everyone else who is wrong.
Think about everyone else, you buttfuck!
While it can be annoying for someone playing to win and using every tactic they know of to do so, it's how the game is played. Some people play for fun, some people to play to win.
Camper's are annoying, but I don't blame them for a tactic that obviously works against so many people.
To me, whining about camping sounds like the people who would whine like little bitches when you "blocked too much" in Street Fighter.
Besides, explosives stop campers pretty quick, but the best way to kill a camper, know the map.
basically, yes. If i do ever camp, it's not for very long because i'll get bored. I like to be in the thick of the action, and don't have the patience to sit around waiting for it to come to me. But i don't see why anyone should have to change their playstyle just because someone on the server can't adapt.
Pot/kettle..
If it's the former, you're a bastard. If it's the latter, I don't really see anything wrong with it.
Also, I can see people getting pissed at uber-cheap combos in fighting games (though, I don't really play fighting games). I think that is more a question of fairness towards your opponent. If there is literally nothing they can do to counter your move, then they have right to be pissed. If it's just that they are too slow, or haven't figured it out yet, then they need to practice.
What is the point then, though?
If the other guy can't do a thing about your move, then you might as well just be playing in a trainng mode where the computer player does nothing.
What are yougetting out of the experience that is so worth pissing the other guy off? If it is CLEAR that he has no idea what to do about the move, what are you really proving by exploiting that fact?
People love being sneaky in games like MGS and SS, I like doing this against real opponents, really satisfying. Then again, if the safest option is to go crazy with a light machinegun or bunker down with a riot shield and pop heads I'll do that. Going on the offensive is usually never the sanest option if you want to stay alive.
Some people enjoy hearing their friend get pissed off at them.
You're winning. To some people, a lot of people, actually, the fun comes from winning, by any means necessary.
I can't wait for the bitching in CoD4 with the ultra good camouflage on the ghille suit.
For some people, a game being fun means they're always winning. For some people, a game being fun is ruining it for others.
He's just playing the game and not cheating. The point is to kill the other players and he's doing that with the tools allowed. Fuck them if they can't handle that.
The last DM game I played much of at all was the original UT, and while I never achieved the same level of zen in UT as I did in Q1, I do remember it being pretty camping-unfriendly as well. I don't know much about DM games nowadays, but I can't imagine they're being created in a way that encourages camping at all.
But if you're talking about CS:S, then shit, I'll hang back when it's called for. The first 30 seconds of a round is usually so chaotic on a pub server that you can get a couple kills right off the bat simply by picking a good spot that's likely to be rushed haphazardly. But, if your team is on offense, staying there the whole round is just dumb. It's not lame as much as it is stupid, because there's an objective waiting to be fulfilled and your team is a man down if you're not supporting them.
The fact with me is that I'll be activley suggesting ways my opponent can counter this. One day of playing Dead or alive 4 had us 'cheesing' each other with a 'cheap' combo until we both kept figuring out how to counter them. By the end of the day we were much better players
Yes, which falls right into my whole "you're being a dick" thing.
If you're a dick to your friends, though, it's a bit different than being a dick to total strangers online.
See the main reason I stopped playing CS is because in 99% of the games I played there would always be that ONE guy who spawns in the beginning, gets the sniper rifle, and sits at his spawn point behind a crate and just waits out the entire fight behind there.
Games would last about 10 minutes between rounds and it would get annoying if you're just watching this guy sit behind the crate hoping someone would walk by it.
People that do that all the time are dicks and have no skill whatsoever.
But you can also run and gun, if you want. You can take out a sniper if you know where he is, and you can do it in multiple ways. You can countersnipe with some weapons, you can launch (or throw) a grenade or you can just go a long way around and stab him in the back for a sniper rifle.
Also, another awesome thing is that in most servers you don't get a sniper immideatly. And pistols are still lethal.
I don't know if its online community is still active though.
Honestly, that doesn't sound all that healthy.
But if that's really all that matters to you, then seek out opponants who are of a like mindset; don't take your issues out on folks who just want to have fun.
I'm not assuming you're the type who would derive serious pleasure from turning people off of the game you're playing; I just don't think you got his point.
Essentially, I only play games that evolve to compensate for poor gameplay mechanics (and that's all it is, it's just a poor decision or oversight on the developers' part).
On the other hand, I play multiplayer games (usually) to have fun. And if I know my opponent, and feel good about their abilities, I can only have fun if they're having fun. I've purposefully held back a bit on my ferocity in Smash, for instance, if I'm playing in a big four-person group with three other people of very varying abilities. It's not that I play dumb, it's just that I relax a bit. (I mean, I can still choose to win, but I can also do some crazy stuff, like pick up every item I see and throw 'em at people.)
Another example: I used to play Battlefleet Gothic, a tabletop spaceship strategy game in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. One game, a shot I fired in the first time hit another ship, blew it up in one hit (rolled straight 6s essentially), and start a chain reaction that blew up half my opponent's fleet. I could have played out the rest of the game, but I just asked, "ehhh, call it a wash and start another game?" To which my opponent obliged and we played again. I knew anything after that wouldn't be fun.
Wait... No.
If being fun for the other players means changing your tactics to make things easier on them, or giving the other players/team more kills, fuck that noise. And I'm not sure how it could mean anything else. The only reason I see other players/team complaining about a person's or team's style or tactics is: the whiner(s) want more kills/points. Same goes with fighting games.
I'm usually on the receiving end of severe beat-downs when I FPS multiplayer games--especially with deathmatch, usually at least 50% with team games--so I do sympathize with players who get frustrated with uberl33t snipers and campers. However, that's part of the game. If you're not having fun with it, here are your options:
1. Man up and figure out a way to counter your opponent.
2. Stop playing multiplayer for the day--finish up the match and go play some single player.
3. Continue practicing in multiplayer games until you get better and figure out some good ways to counter the other players/team. Personally, I know this approach can make for some very satisfying games. There's nothing better than sticking out an ass whipping for several rounds, figure out some good tactics for countering, and then come back and whip some ass a few matches in a row.
Edit: Just read hazard's post, and wanted to add that spawn camping, unless it's a crucial part of the game (for something like Wolfenstein), is a pretty lame tactic that should be addressed on the developer end. If you use it as a cheap tactic just to piss people off, yeah, you're being a dick.
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As was said before, there's nothing wrong with a bit of good old fashioned sniping, the issue is when you set yourself up to snipe at spawn points.
The real issue here is that folks are talking about certain things (spawn-camping, combo-spamming, etc.) that sort of ignore the "rules of engagement" of videogaming. You need to give your competitor a fair shot, which means yes, you let him have a moment to grab his bearings, and try to make a run for cover, before you pick him off.
One of the best examplesi can think of is the old Goldeneye rule that you couldn't kill anyone until after they had gotten a weapon.
Honestly, if youcan't win in a fair fight, then you aren't really winning at all, you're just exploiting.
Personally unless I'm playing with friends, I don't see the need to go out of my way to make a game fun for someone else. I'm not saying I'm gonna be an asshole and talk shit, but if I found a way to survive that they have trouble countering against - tough titties. As for the fighting games, fuck if I know, I don't play them.
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Way to ignore context.
I said, SPECIFICALLY, that you don't have to change your tactic.
I was suggesting seeking out other players who are OKAY with your tactic.
Basically, play it the way you like, but try to do it with folks who are okay with you playing that way.
Now, when your playing CS, and have an objective, and your camping in your regular spot and not trying to complete the objective, your a moron. There are exceptions, like tacticly camping the bomb knowing that 2 players on other side will come to try and camp themselves, effectively using your fallen objective as bait, etc.
You may not talk shit, butI don't see how that isn't being an asshole.
Actually, I'v ever been in only 1 clan game in my life, and that was in the origonal Rainbow 6 on over origonal XBL. Look, I actually tell people all the time on how they can beat my tactics, like suggesting using grenades, hiding from me, whatever, I do this all the time because I hate to look like a dick for playing like this, I just find it's the best way for me to play if I want to win. I guess I'm just like this now in multiplayer games because I could never have any fun with them, and if I tired a crazy new idea, I sucked and died a lot. I just decided to say 'fuck it, if I'm playing this I'm playing to win'. And FYI, I don't really play many games where 'spawn camping' is possible. Even if I did try this in Rainbow 6 Vegas, they know where I am when they die, it's hard to get an 'instant kill' in that game without taking a second or two to like up my shot and soforth, it's not worth it.
No it isn't! What the fuck, dude. If I've been able to master a certain style in such a way that in makes it hard to kill me, well, good for me.
Now, spawn camping is lame as it sort of breaks the 4th wall there. But normal camping or abusing a powerful weapon is not the huge crime you think it is. When I first started UT I used to hate people who kept camping the rocket launcher until I realized they couldn't fucking aim and NEEDED the splash damage.
Don't call me an asshole just because I may or may not be better than some person somewhere.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
So, remember how much it sucked when you tried doing other things, and couldn't win? That is kind of how you are making these other people feel.
And as for tellingthem how to beat you, I am sure that you are doing this with the kindest of intentions, but can you see how, from their perspective, that might just be percieved as pure arrogance?