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"How could you possibly agree and be comfortable with this?"
AlyceInWonderland
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Hey guys, I need your opinions on something. My boyfriend just recently got accepted to a very good college, but since attending it, doesn't like it what so ever. He's unhappy, and the only class he enjoys is German class. He's grown to dislike his major (Psychology), and not only that, but he may not be able to afford college anymore anyway.
He's very interested in a career my dad brought up. You see, my dad used to be a Sheetmetal worker for around 25 years. It pays excellently, and he absolutely loved his job, and my dad thought my boyfriend would be great at this job. Since being mentioned to him, my boyfriend has researched the job, and talked to my dad about it, and decided that he is really interested in becoming a Sheetmetal worker. He'd have to go to trade school, and would be making around 25 an hour his first year, which goes up 5% every year, and in 4 years when he graduates trade school would go up 100%. He would be making around 80K a year on his own at 22 years of age if he sticks with it.
He has all the skills required (knowledge of Math, good coordination, handy with tools, etc), and he thinks this job will not only make him really happy, but successful as well.
Problem: All his friends (and mine as well...) are telling him that dropping out of college is a stupid idea. They keep on telling him that he's a "smart kid" and should stay in school, despite him not being happy, and not being able to afford it. Not only that, but if he's stays in school, he won't be guaranteed a good paying job, while if my dad gets him this job, he's guaranteed that he'd get a job, and would get insane money.
Our friends just don't see our reasoning, and keep on telling us it's a ridiculous idea.
Is it a stupid idea for him to drop out and persue a career he'd be more happy in? How do I get these people to see our logic? Should we just ignore them, when they say it's stupid and ask how I could possibly agree to this situation?
Thanks in advance.
He's very interested in a career my dad brought up. You see, my dad used to be a Sheetmetal worker for around 25 years. It pays excellently, and he absolutely loved his job, and my dad thought my boyfriend would be great at this job. Since being mentioned to him, my boyfriend has researched the job, and talked to my dad about it, and decided that he is really interested in becoming a Sheetmetal worker. He'd have to go to trade school, and would be making around 25 an hour his first year, which goes up 5% every year, and in 4 years when he graduates trade school would go up 100%. He would be making around 80K a year on his own at 22 years of age if he sticks with it.
He has all the skills required (knowledge of Math, good coordination, handy with tools, etc), and he thinks this job will not only make him really happy, but successful as well.
Problem: All his friends (and mine as well...) are telling him that dropping out of college is a stupid idea. They keep on telling him that he's a "smart kid" and should stay in school, despite him not being happy, and not being able to afford it. Not only that, but if he's stays in school, he won't be guaranteed a good paying job, while if my dad gets him this job, he's guaranteed that he'd get a job, and would get insane money.
Our friends just don't see our reasoning, and keep on telling us it's a ridiculous idea.
Is it a stupid idea for him to drop out and persue a career he'd be more happy in? How do I get these people to see our logic? Should we just ignore them, when they say it's stupid and ask how I could possibly agree to this situation?
Thanks in advance.
AlyceInWonderland on
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It sounds like he really really wants to try a trade. He should. It's not like dropping out is the end of the world. I was 22 before I even started my post secondary course (The age your boyfriend will be when he gets his ticket by the sounds of it). If sheet metal work doesn't turn out, he can always try something else.
That's all you need to know.
Don't listen to other people, do what YOU want to do.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
A degree isnt a job ticket, if they believe so they are woefully uninformed. Skilled trades are a respectable job that make good money.
If I had stopped and listened to people who said I should go to college instead of the air force I would still be in Hawaii, getting high and working some crap job, and I likely wouldn't have stuck with school.
If I had stayed in the air force I would have been sent to Iraq, a war I don't agree with, an administration I don't trust, and a job I had grown to hate.
Now I'm living well in Japan, my wife and I are happy, I have a job that pays the bills and my GIBill pays for college, and I enjoy what I do day to day.
Don't let others make decisions for you, go with your gut and don't be afraid to start from scratch when where you are just isn't working out.
If your boyfriend doesn't have your dad, I can't feel like your "guarantee" of a well-paying job is that much of a guarantee.
It may be a bit biased of a conclusion, but it sure seems like dropping out is the smarter thing to do.
With a trade, that's your job. Carpenters do carpentry, sheet metal workers work with sheet metal, and so on. The jobs pay well when they're around, but sometimes you have to move or some other thing comes up and you're unable to do your job. That's a harder situation when you're in a trade.
The risks are not exclusive to trades, and I'd say that in the scheme of things, sheet metal worker has significantly more job prospects and a brighter future than a degree in Psychology. The friends who are saying "you're dumb, college is better" are hopefully saying so with the idea that he simply change majors in college, but I would strongly suggest that if your boyfriend is interested in physically using his hands to create things, he *at least* gets the hell away from Psychology.
Personally, I'm an intellectual kind of guy, office work is the work for me, and I've been working on getting a degree in white collarness. But there's a ton of people in college who are only there because that's what they're "supposed" to do after high school, and they might as well toss $20k in a bonfire and sit on a beach for four years. Craftsmen get paid very well for what they do, or so I hear, and they need to be smart people too.
Meanwhile, for years trades were looked down upon and as such nobody went to trade school. What this means is that today trade workers (of all kinds) are in extremely high demand and as such are compensated greatly.
As a guy that sits in front of a computer all day I can definitely see how rewarding working with my hands would be. Then again, the grass is always greener...
Trade school is nothing to scoff at. It's never too late to choose college or trade school. If he's hard pressed for cash in college now, it's only going to get worse with each new year.
It is if you're capable of marketing yourself. Its just that universities often do a pretty poor job of letting their students know how to do that, especially outside faculties like engineering and law.
That, my dear, is a load of rank fucking bullshit. The skills related to information processing and evaluation, critical thinking and writing, time management, and other 'hidden' parts of the syllabus make liberal arts degree holders far more useful than popular thinking would have it. What's more, those skills can be applied in a far broader range of fields than the more technical degrees. English and other humanities majors are well qualified to work in a huge variety of functions across the white-collar working world.
I agree with you in theory: being in school and being exposed to a variety of subject gives you intellectual as well as real-life tools to use in your career and enrich your life. Sadly, however, the product of many wishy-washy dime-a-dozen Bachelors of Arts degrees in America seems to be nothing more than a pack of half-wit drones. Also, while education gives you tools that help you accomplish things in life, it really depends more on personal motivation. Many people who graduated from my college, which is (in)famous in the scientific community for its hardcore science curriculum, have gone on to lead what you might consider fairly unproductive lives; only those who were truly motivated were able to turn their prized academic achievements into something useful. And I do not say this out of self-congratulating elitism, I actually consider my own performance somewhat middling, having just entered grad school, 3 years after graduating from college.
Having said that, I think it's important to note that, while many Americans seem to emerge from college rather unscathed from learning, college can be a wonderfully enriching experience for those who are receptive and those who are interested in more than just hooking up and getting drunk. College is by far the best and most convenient place to expand your knowledge and interests.
HOWEVER. The OP's boyfriend doesn't seem to enjoy this, which is perfectly fine. You don't have to go to college to have a fulfilling, successful life, not to mention that people have different definitions of success. I used to know this really smart girl in high school. She could have gotten into any top-20 university and gone on to an illustrious career in any academic field she chose, but instead she chose to go to a local community college and persue a future in missionary work with Jehovah's Witnesses. I always thought that was an unfortunate waste of her intellect, but hey, she's entitled to do what makes her happy. So, in short, the decision to drop out of college isn't always a bad one, no matter how people have been indoctrinated by society.
But as other people have brought up, there is doubt whether this metalworking thing holds as rosy of a future as it looks at first glance. Firstly, there's the relationship thing: what's going to happen to his career if he stops being your boyfriend? Secondly, personal motivation: is he going to lose interest after a couple weeks/months? Those are very important and pertinent questions. I would say the smart thing to do is to hedge his bets. Don't drop out of school just for the sake of starting trade school yet if it's possible for him to get some experience before committing. For example, would it be possible for him to do a sort of "internship" over summer break or something? If he tries it out and really takes to it, and decides that it's a career he'd pursue regardless of any "guarentees" from being your boyfriend, then obviously he should drop out of school and start trade school. On the other hand, he might try it and decide it's not all he dreamt it would be, and then he wouldn't be stuck doing nothing.
All very well, but that's more a function of college being expected of rather than aspired towards for those people than anything else. Over here, its the business degree students who exhibit the same characteristics - only there because they don't know what else to do, not really applying themselves, yada yada. That's hardly the fault of the courses themselves, and also means absolutely nothing when it comes to those people who are in those courses for good reasons. If OP's bf is only in college because he drifted there, its probably a great idea to strike out and pursue something - even the act of taking control of one's life itself is important, I think. His friends probably think he's going to miss out on 'freedom' or the opportunity to party in a dorm or whateverthefuck, which isn't a terribly enlightened perspective. They're also probably concerned that he'll have a lot less in common with them due to taking a different life course, to which all I can say is 'if they think they can't get along with anyone who isn't just like them, they can get stuffed'. What you can be sure of is that they're probably not really thinking about his best interests, or they're not aware of how unhappy he is.
Like I said before, not going to college straight from school =/= never going ever. He can always go back if it doesn't work out.
Yeah, I think we agree on the essentials of the theory of college etc. ^^^That, however, is the most important point and I feel it deserves stressing: his buddies aren't looking out for his best interest, and so their opinion shouldn't be given a lot of weight.
You outlined everything you need to make your decision in the OP: he'd enjoy it more than his present path, you'd support him, and plus he'd make a good living. I say go for it, definitely. :^:
Nail: head: hit. How does anyone know he's not just seeing the greener grass? Sometimes I think I'd prefer if I took Politics, Philosophy and Economics at Oxford rather than taking Computer Science (at not Oxford). Does that mean anything? Probably not. It just sounds like something I'd like to do. I'd know about as much about it as your boyfriend does about metalworking if he's not actually done it.
Your boyfriend has an impetus to leave because he's not enjoying his major. It looks like he's just looking for the nearest justification.
I guess it also depends on what "very good" college is. Are we talking about the sort of college where you can graduate with any degree you please, and then pretty much get consideration for all sorts of jobs? I'm talking Oxbridge, Princeton, Stanford. These sort of things. If so, why not find a major that does suit? Why not German? I don't believe that someone who is academically talented enough to reach these sort of echelons of education cannot find a subject that doesn't stretch the mind and make him happy.
NOTE: I'm not saying sheetworking is good or bad. I'm just thinking it's a hell of a coincidence that your boyfriend must have tried very hard to get where he is, is now unhappy, then finds out your Dad does sheetworking, and now thinks that its his life-calling. Supporting him is making sure he is clear in his own mind his motivations, however hard it is for him to deal with.
Yeah, he should definitely try to get pretty good grasp of what the experience of the job is like.
He needs to try talking to a few people in the industry in addition to the OP's dad, find out if the day to day experience is something that would attract him. He should also check out Labour Market information about the demand for the position, the likely pay ranges, etc. See if your State/Province has a website like Bc Work Futures that gives a quick breakdown of jobtypes, and the market for those positions, potential earnings, etc.
As for his friends, well, its a problem in general that society doesn't appreciate the value of skilled tradespeople, which is why we have a huge shortage of them here in BC now.
Going into big debt to get a degree that he won't enjoy getting is a whole lot worse idea than gaining a useful skill. College/University isn't something you have to do at 18/19. Older and adult students are becoming more and more common, so if he decides he wants to go back to college later, he shouldn't be worried about that.
However, he may also want to investigate other majors, or change his courses if possible. Deciding on a major in your first year isn't required. Personally, I took a wide range of courses in my first year to try different things before deciding on a major. However, my economic circumstances (and the low tuition at the time) made that possible. It sounds like that may be something the OP's BF doesn't have the economic ability to do.
Personally I have a degree in engineering, I enjoyed the degree and I wanted the job. But that's me. One of my friends got in the 98th percentile of our year and failed because he didn't like the course or the structure at uni. That's life, some people just aren't cut for it and that's that.
Trades are a goddam important skill to learn and being bright helps tremendously people saying only slow people do trades are fucking slow, do you want a stupid person to wire your house or a bright one? He's not selling himself short if he's smart and dedicated to his job. If he wants to cruise through life doing fuckall, then that is selling himself short.
The other thing he needs to consider is life isn't a big bowl of cherries. It'd be sweet if it was but fact of the matter is that there are plenty of aspects in all jobs (and degrees and training) that are as boring as fuck. He needs to recognise whether he wants what is at the end of the road. (ie. with University a degree in whatever or a trade) You don't want to be 30 having tried 15 different jobs and quitting all of them because you don't like one aspect of them. I'm not saying sell yourself short and live in mediocrity, but instead don't expect perfection.
Satans..... hints.....
First of all, I'm with Cat. A good liberal arts education has become an increasingly valuable professional tool. It's also worth pointing out that in America, as of right now, only about 32% of people have four year degrees. The number may appear small, but consider the fact that as a young adult, most of the people you know are probably in or considering college, which can't help but skew your perspective on any given degree's distinctiveness. The fact is, there are a LOT of college drop-outs. Finishing school at all can be in itself a marketable distinction.
Also, I would be wary of dropping out of college with the assurance that if all else fails, you can go back. Yes, technically you can go back any time you please. You see that forty year old sitting in the back row every so often, but the fact is, the longer you wait, the more difficult it is to reimmerse yourself into an academic setting full-time (though obviously this does not preclude part time education). Everyone knows that one guy who is totally going to get things straight, make some calls and go back to school. It sounds great in your head, but becomes difficult to finally put into practice. You can become distracted by the real-world, a furthered sense of independence, and even a general self consciousness about being the oldest person in the room, if only by a couple of years. Will this happen to the OP's boyfriend? Not necessarily, but it's a potential challenge lying in wait.
Where do you fit in here OP?
Are you at his college? Are you in the city where he would be doing this trade skill? It sounds like the latter, which is good, but remember you might have a biased view because you want to be closer to him. It's perfectly understandable, but might be clouding your judgement as to what you think is the right thing to do.
I'd like to be optimistic and say that we won't be breaking up any time soon, but if it ever were to occur, I'm sure it would be hard, but my dad probably wouldn't stiff a hard worker like him. But hopefully that doesn't happen.
When my boyfriend signed up for psych. he liked the idea of helping people, and still likes psychology in general, but he thought about how he can't afford it, and how much he doesn't like the college life, and the classes at that particular school, and it just put him off.
Now, my dad has had several talks with him, explaining, in depth, what the job is like. And Peter (boyfriend) has done some extensive research, and he told me the more he researched it, the more he liked the idea. Peter's father is also a carpenter, and worked with his hands much like my dad, and peter's always loved the idea of that, and has some experience from working with his dad.
I'm actually currently at college in the city, however, Peter would probably be either in the city or working more up in the country on houses/buildings/malls that need ductwork/skylights. So it could go either way.
Sorry if I'm not making much sense with my posts. I'm rather tired, and i'll fix whatever tomorrow.
Thanks again, I really appreciate all of this!
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It's good that he researched all this stuff, but did he do that before he started psych? Has he done it for other possibilities at college?
Knowledge is power!
Check out my art! Buy some prints!
2. If you're worried about money, you shouldn't be going into psychology. Undergrad psych positions pay shit, if you can find any at all. You need at least a grad degree to even be considered for a lot of positions.
3. Having said points 1 and 2, your main concern should be enjoying what you do. If he doesn't enjoy psych, then he should definitely switch. Try the sheet metal job. If he doesn't like it? Do something else. Pretty much everything else is irrelevant. Money is worthless if you still dread getting up in the morning.
I`ve known quite a few friends that clearly wanted to go into trades after high school, but allowed their parents to pressure them into university. They are the unhappiest of all.
Your BF really should try sheet metal work. Worst cast scenario he works for a year or two and doesn`t like it, but goes back to college with a big TV and a fat wallet.
I think it's not so much that degrees are required to do the jobs, it's just that so many people nowadays have generic english/psych/social science/etc degrees, and so many people apply for every position, that they just slap a "need degree" on the job listing to cut the number of apps in half. I've seen some completely rediculous requirements listed for entry level job postings, and I can only assume it's because they normally get 300 apps and they want to cut it down to 10. Looking around at the office I work in, I have trouble believing any of the work would've taken more than a week of training to be able to do fine.
So not having a degree will make it harder to find a white collar job, but if you can get one odds are you'd do as well as any liberal arts type at it.
On the flip side, now i have a great job in the tech industry, from an employer that didn't give a damn about my less than steller GPA or even what my major was in. People care that you have relevant skills. As long as you have those, you'll do fine. So...pick up some relevant skills, be they in sheet metal, tech, whatever. College is not a nessecity for this.
If i've learned anything from the college experience, it's that as long as you want to work where you do, you're informed and a hard worker, people will see that and hire you. I really wanted this job. I went in with the intention to feel it out if it would be right for me, and my boss who interviewed me was a really nice guy and i was just honest about my situation and my ability and willingness to learn. Needless to say, they hired me, so i must have done something right...now i'm pretty much set. I don't hate waking up to go to my job every day, i enjoy the disposable income it gives me, and life is pretty good at the moment. So do what you want to do, not what everyone else says you should do.
My dad was in the same situation. He hated school and went to cooking school. He makes a really good six figure salary, but hates his job. He is in no position to change is job either. In theory you can go back at any time. But the longer you're out of school the harder it is to go back. The sheer weight of financial considerations just makes it that hard. If you have a car/family/house/apartment/expenses going back to school is hard. At the end of the day, no amount of preparation or thinking can prepare you for trying to figure out if a 40-50 year commitment will work out. So take a chance, you're young yet, or rather he is.
While supporting a family is a big one, all the others can be sacrificed if you really want it. I know one guy that gave up being a lawyer at 30 and became a doctor because he wanted to. Although to be fair his wife was earning enough money to support him and their children.
You can sell a house if you are worried about that money, you can do the same for your car. For expenses fuck it, you don't need to eat out every night. It's called sacrifice, you do it when you want something, hell look at most uni students, their main dietry staple consists of ramen while they might spend too much also on alcohol these people are making sacrifices to do their degree.
Going back to university is not as big of a deal as some people have made it out to be, I know a few people who went back the only difference between them and everyone else is that they tool around less in class because they definatly know they want to be there.
Satans..... hints.....
This. Uni culture is weird in the US, though, it seems to be a lot more anti-anyone-over-18-to-21 judging by the comments on this board. Or maybe the college kids here are just assholes...
People really do have a hard-on for college. You can do plenty of things without a fancy education and make a good amount of $ doing it.
Make sure he sticks to it.
I think this is the sentiment of self-entitled brats that make up a majority of the college populations. I go to a junior college and I've rarely taken a class that didn't have some one in their late 20s and up. I personally love it because they are the most dedicated people. They are there because they want to be. Hell, my dad is still going to school and he doesn't have to.
Unfortunetly, it's also the sentiment that keeps people locked into college when they don't want to be. Everyone makes you feel like a loser if you're not in school between the ages of 19 and 22.
OP: If your bf feels he knows what he's doing then he should go for it. He has the support of the people that count, you and your father who will mentor him, so why not. It's both logical and sensible to his given situation. If his friends can't get over their bias and support him then the are only going to inhibit his success. Why keep them as friends?