The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
On Kathy Griffin and offending religious people
Qingu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
At the Emmy's, Kathy Griffin made a blasphemous speech, saying (paraphrasing here) "a lot of people thank Jesus when they're up here. I'd like to say that nobody has less to do with this award then Jesus. Suck it, Jesus! This award is my God now!"
The Christian community is predictably outraged. But a lot of Christians, such as a Catholic priest interviewed on Fox News, claim there is a double-standard in the media where it's okay to mock Christians but not okay to make fun of Islam, Jews, or African Americans, and point to the slap-down people like Don Imus and Mel Gibson got.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k0jhs-Stfg&mode=related&search=
In general, this seems to be a fairly common line of defense among Christians nowadays—calling anti-Christian messages "hate speech" and such.
In my humble opinion: while I agree that there is a double standard where it's okay to mock Christianity vs. Islam or Judaism, I think it's incredibly stupid—and dangerous—when religious people try to compare such mockery to actual racism. When someone makes fun of religion or a religious figure, they are simply making fun of an idea, no different than mocking Republicanism or Communism. This is completely different from racism, and being prejudiced against people because of the color of their skin.
A lot of Muslims often conflate what they call "Islamophobia" with "racism," as if (1) Muslims are a race and (2) legitimate criticism of Islam equates to prejudice against said imaginary race. I think Christians would do well to not follow in this ignorant example, and avoid equating mockery and criticism of their religion with racism.
Edit: I love the way Fox News "edited" Kathy's speech to make it suitable for their audience. S*$% it, Jesus!
The Christian community is predictably outraged. But a lot of Christians, such as a Catholic priest interviewed on Fox News, claim there is a double-standard in the media where it's okay to mock Christians but not okay to make fun of Islam, Jews, or African Americans, and point to the slap-down people like Don Imus and Mel Gibson got.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k0jhs-Stfg&mode=related&search=
In general, this seems to be a fairly common line of defense among Christians nowadays—calling anti-Christian messages "hate speech" and such.
In my humble opinion: while I agree that there is a double standard where it's okay to mock Christianity vs. Islam or Judaism, I think it's incredibly stupid—and dangerous—when religious people try to compare such mockery to actual racism. When someone makes fun of religion or a religious figure, they are simply making fun of an idea, no different than mocking Republicanism or Communism. This is completely different from racism, and being prejudiced against people because of the color of their skin.
A lot of Muslims often conflate what they call "Islamophobia" with "racism," as if (1) Muslims are a race and (2) legitimate criticism of Islam equates to prejudice against said imaginary race. I think Christians would do well to not follow in this ignorant example, and avoid equating mockery and criticism of their religion with racism.
Edit: I love the way Fox News "edited" Kathy's speech to make it suitable for their audience. S*$% it, Jesus!
Qingu on
0
Posts
With Jews obviously it gets a little sticky because of the whole "it's a race and a culture/ethnicity sort of" thing, but yes, I really have never seen anything wrong with criticizing religion.
And to say that it's not OK to poke fun at Islam? Well, people might be scared, but Islam gets plenty of serious criticism from basically everyone all across the Christian Right in America.
America is a Christian nation, where almost all of the people are Christian of some sort, thankfully. Kathy Griffin is a heathenish monstrosity who deserves to burn in hell.
Can't argue with that. The Christian Right are still douchebags though.
This is all I have to say.
Christianity/Jesus is definitely a whipping boy for people who are anti-theists who don't really have a good argument- anti-Christian remarks in the vein of Kathy Griffin's tend to strike me as little more than rote polemic. I certainly don't mind it, but it's not something I'm really willing to endorse with any real enthusiasm, as it's (largely) meant to offend rather than inform and improve.
I posted the cartoons outside my dorm room. It was ripped off the wall.
Definitely. Still, I don't think that any religion really warrants special protection along the lines of hate crimes, except where ethnicity and religion intersect very closely.
They know she's kidding, but just because something is a joke doesn't make it any less offensive. Framing things in the context of a joke is not some unlimited use free pass. You would still be a dick.
If you worshiped someone so vehemently that you grew to hate others and rule your childrens' lives by his rule, and you went to groups every week to worship this individual, and you formed a large social club bound to living by his rule, fighting everyone that opposes him, and you close yourself out to arguments that go against what you believe, and you hold dear on an inhuman level everything to do with him, and following this guys rules had closed you off to most human experiences...
Look, Kathy just should have insulted Zeus.
No one has a sense of humor in the real world, a thread gets made. Sunrise, sunset.
People burning U.S. flags aren't attacking the United States.
Not in a literal sense. But it does signify some displeasure at US policy or ethics whenever it's done.
I mean, people don't burn US flags for warmth, usually.
Displeasure with policy and ethics =/= attacking the United States. a fair number of people actually argue that burning flags is one of the most patriotic things one can do, in the spirit of protest and dissent that a fair number of people associate with the United States.
I don't want to derail this into a flag-burning thread, btw.
Seconded, and James, this isn't a Christian Nation, this nation is supposed to be about freedom and equality of religion, but fuckers who think christianity is all there is and anything else deserves to be ignored or gotten rid of are the reason this country is going to shit.
She was a dumb bitch to say that on national television, but it was her right to say it, weather the christians like it or not.
Seconded. I've always thought Kathy Griffin is a worthless shit, and it was monumentally retarded of her to say this at the fucking Emmy's, but it's even more retarded the backlash it is getting.
Also, thank you to whoever said that it is not an attack on Christianity, it is a mockery of award speeches.
I mean, I guess it is both, and obviously she meant it to be a religious jab, but it's not like she was all 'Thanks guys! Oh by the way FUCK JESUS.' (although I guess to Christians it might seem like that).
If that can be classified as "hate speech", I hate to think of all the people Jehovah's Witnesses and Scientologists will be suing, since to mention them is to mock them.
It was no more her right to say it on someone else's airtime at someone else's event than it would be for someone to post things that are against the rules here at PA.
Who in this thread has generalized?
I sort of got that impression. Whatever, doesn't matter.
I thought Donohue's comments were laughable, at best, though it does frighten me that people are actually taking serious offense to her remarks. I mean, grow some balls or something.
Meh.. Atheists, like Muslims, are second-rate citizens in the eyes of many anyway.
Paraphrasing Robert Newman:
"For the first time ever a country has succeeded in uniting everyone else against them. We even have our own flag!"
"Oh, what is it?"
"Same as yours, but on fire."
The Mohammed pictures and roundabout dogs resulted in much burning of Danish and Swedish flags.
This is the most laughably incorrect statement I've heard in a long time.
1) Someone else's airtime? So when a station gives somebody an award and allocates time for the person to give a personally-written speech, it's not that persons time to speak?
2) Against the rules? Against what rules? THERE IS NO FUCKING RULE OR LAW against saying what she said.
Goddamn, it's been a while since I've read such a post. Please, try to put some thought into your next one.
Then there would at least be a valid reason to get offended.
Exactly. Award speeches are usually such trite, self-serving twaddle, and I think taking a pot-shot at the "I'd like to thank gaaaaawd for getting me this award for making a movie about a *insert character/theme considered morally degenerate by christians*" crowd actually makes her a better christian than most.
And the "huge numbers of outraged people" basically comprise Bill Donahue, a psychotic bully-boy who has no connection to the church officially, and a few humor-impaired rednecks. Fuck 'em.
Except those of the event organizer. They probably have rules about what speakers can and can't say.
Well that was my point; if they had no rules about that then it doesn't matter. :P
Edit: what I meant were rules to keep the event organizer from having to deal with a shitstorm from statements like this.
Showing disrespect to Jesus is nothing new on TV. Every other Family Guy or Mad TV episode makes a jab at Jesus, VH1 is constantly airing parts of that Madonna music video (the one where Madonna makes out with a reanimated Jesus) during their 80s countdowns, and who doesn't like to make fun of the God Warrior?
But when Kathy Griffin demands that Jesus give her oral sex, that crosses a line. Take out the 'Suck it!' and her joke becomes passable.