As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

What do you believe but cannot prove?

DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
edited October 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
This thread is shamelessly stolen from a book I saw in a shop in london. So then,

what do you believe but cannot prove?

I believe that our growing culture of mood altering medication, special consideration and liability is a poor solution for personal problems and often a distraction from actually dealing with issues. You aren't depressed because your life is depressing, you have a chemical imbalance in your brain. You can't study because you have a learning disorder, its not that you are undisciplined.

I'll keep it at that because I'm sure it will piss people off and the thread isn't really about what i said.

Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

https://medium.com/@alascii
DodgeBlan on
«134567

Posts

  • Locutus ZeroLocutus Zero Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I try my best not to believe anything I can't prove. And since when you get right down to it you can't REALLY prove anything, I try not to believe anything. The best I can do is assign a very high probability to something.

    Locutus Zero on
    Locutus+Zero.png
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I believe I exist. Can't prove it to anyone but myself though.

    electricitylikesme on
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    trust d&d to get overly metaphysical.

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    That it's a floor wax _and_ a dessert topping.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Mine is probably the most personal one I could share.

    I believe in a soul.

    I have no reason to, my belief defies my logic, and were I to rely strictly on reason, I probably would conclude that it's impossible. But that belief gives me comfort, and I want to believe it.

    Don't try to tell me how flawed that is. I know.

    That being said, I still strongly believe in all that science has to offer. I use the word "beleive" now in the same sense that I say I "believe" the sun will rise tomorrow. An example I believe I stole from Richard Dawkins. I can't remember.

    It's an odd dichotomy. As strongly as I want to believe in an after-life, I more often than not end up arguing a very definite athiest point of view. I suppose because I'm so insecure and serious about the fallacy of my own beliefs, whenever I come across anyone who tries to pass their own spiritual beliefs as the obvious and logical path, I want to destroy their entire argument. I typically pass them off as fools, at least in that matter. But what do I know? I'm an idiot, anyhow. I don't mean that entirely, but in a more general sense. I'm missing a lot of information, all the time about everything.

    I most admire people who say, "I don't have any sort of strong reason for it, and I maybe be wrong, but I still believe in God." This also relies on the fact that they don't reject, say, evolution.

    "I may have no evidence for it, but I strongly believe the Earth is 6,000 years old."

    JamesKeenan on
  • Something WittySomething Witty Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I believe Jesus stole my sock. But he has an alibi.

    Something Witty on
    IMWithDentToo.png
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    No one can tell the difference between Wizzo butter and a dead crab

    Fencingsax on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Nothing. At least, I can't think of anything. I accept a lot of information without personally proving it, but that's a given.

    Aroused Bull on
  • Locutus ZeroLocutus Zero Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    There is one thing: German is just English backwards.

    Locutus Zero on
    Locutus+Zero.png
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    Nothing. At least, I can't think of anything. I accept a lot of information without personally proving it, but that's a given.

    Same here. I do my best to demand proof from all my friends for their wild claims.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ...but there must be something, even though most people doubt it, even though its probably not true, that feels right to you and you must believe?

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Maybe I'm jaded, or naive, or just plain moronic, but I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone on Earth has at least one belief which has no rational or solid backing.

    There was an article on the same topic. It was quizzing scientists, and asking them what they believe without proof. I only remember one answer, and it was that modern singing grew out of basic yodeling. I don't remember if he was just claiming the yodel was the birth of music, or that the physical act of the yodel itself was the catalyst for an evolutionary change which allowed us to sing as we do now.

    My point is that everyone has something they believe without proof. Even something as mundane and earthly as singing. It doesn't have to be emotional, or spiritual, like mine. Just, something. Maybe, without a real reason, you believe your neighbor is gay.

    JamesKeenan on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    ...but there must be something, even though most people doubt it, even though its probably not true, that feels right to you and you must believe?
    Um. No?
    There is one thing: German is just English backwards.
    If only.

    Aroused Bull on
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Well I hope your cold hard logic keeps you warm at night.

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • theSquidtheSquid Sydney, AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I also believe in a soul. We don't understand the entire functionality of a brain yet, so hey, there's still hope.

    I also think there is a gigantic demon in my closet that feeds from my soul at night. That's something else entirely.

    theSquid on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Maybe I'm jaded, or naive, or just plain moronic, but I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone on Earth has at least one belief which has no rational or solid backing.

    There was an article on the same topic. It was quizzing scientists, and asking them what they believe without proof. I only remember one answer, and it was that modern singing grew out of basic yodeling. I don't remember if he was just claiming the yodel was the birth of music, or that the physical act of the yodel itself was the catalyst for an evolutionary change which allowed us to sing as we do now.

    My point is that everyone has something they believe without proof. Even something as mundane and earthly as singing. It doesn't have to be emotional, or spiritual, like mine. Just, something. Maybe, without a real reason, you believe your neighbor is gay.

    Not unless we're using a less rigid definition of belief than I thought we are. I might have suspicions of something, based on too little evidence to actually be decided on the matter. I might have a hunch, which could be based on subconscious observations or on nothing at all, but that's even less than a suspicion. I might believe something erroneously, not having properly considered the proof required, but if it's brought to my attention I'll re-evaluate the evidence and decide whether to believe it or not. There are basic axioms I have to accept, of course, but I don't know of anything that I believe in without also believing that there is sufficient proof to justify my belief.
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Well I hope your cold hard logic keeps you warm at night.
    Yes, it does, actually. I prefer my decisions to be rational. I fail to see how believing in something for no reason can be considered a comfort.

    Aroused Bull on
  • Smug DucklingSmug Duckling Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I wouldn't say I believe it, exactly, but I think there's like a 90%+ chance that there is something we would define as life somewhere else in the universe.

    Smug Duckling on
    smugduckling,pc,days.png
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    Maybe I'm jaded, or naive, or just plain moronic, but I find it nearly impossible to believe that anyone on Earth has at least one belief which has no rational or solid backing.

    There was an article on the same topic. It was quizzing scientists, and asking them what they believe without proof. I only remember one answer, and it was that modern singing grew out of basic yodeling. I don't remember if he was just claiming the yodel was the birth of music, or that the physical act of the yodel itself was the catalyst for an evolutionary change which allowed us to sing as we do now.

    My point is that everyone has something they believe without proof. Even something as mundane and earthly as singing. It doesn't have to be emotional, or spiritual, like mine. Just, something. Maybe, without a real reason, you believe your neighbor is gay.

    Not unless we're using a less rigid definition of belief than I thought we are. I might have suspicions of something, based on too little evidence to actually be decided on the matter. I might have a hunch, which could be based on subconscious observations or on nothing at all, but that's even less than a suspicion. I might believe something erroneously, not having properly considered the proof required, but if it's brought to my attention I'll re-evaluate the evidence and decide whether to believe it or not. There are basic axioms I have to accept, of course, but I don't know of anything that I believe in without also believing that there is sufficient proof to justify my belief.
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Well I hope your cold hard logic keeps you warm at night.
    Yes, it does, actually. I prefer my decisions to be rational. I fail to see how believing in something for no reason can be considered a comfort.

    1. In my post I used the more obvious definition of belief, but not because I thought that I was required to. As I understand it, the definition of belief in this thread is the more general, conceptive, kind of belief. Also, you didn't give one. So you still owe us.

    2. I don't buy it! How can cold logic keep you warm?! Unless you're...

    Iceman.gif

    JamesKeenan on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I wouldn't say I believe it, exactly, but I think there's like a 90%+ chance that there is something we would define as life somewhere else in the universe.
    We're going to find life on Mars. It'll turn out it came from Earth on one of the Viking landers.

    electricitylikesme on
  • NexelauNexelau Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I believe in souls, I believe that ghosts are either the souls of people who have passed or the "psychic imprint" of people who have been there in the past, I believe that there are people who can speak to the dead, see the future/past and do things that science cannot explain.

    I believe cars are a lethal weapon and a tool and should be treated as such.

    I believe that there may be a higher power at work in the universe, although I hesitate to call it "God" or accept religion's interpretations of it and its wishes.

    I believe that there is life on planets other than our own.

    I believe that the American constitution has the status of a religion in the minds of many.

    Nexelau on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    1. In my post I used the more obvious definition of belief, but not because I thought that I was required to. As I understand it, the definition of belief in this thread is the more general, conceptive, kind of belief. Also, you didn't give one. So you still owe us.

    To avoid confusion, then: believe, to accept as true, genuine, or real. Not the religious faith sort of belief.

    Aroused Bull on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    1. In my post I used the more obvious definition of belief, but not because I thought that I was required to. As I understand it, the definition of belief in this thread is the more general, conceptive, kind of belief. Also, you didn't give one. So you still owe us.

    To avoid confusion, then: believe, to accept as true, genuine, or real. Not the religious faith sort of belief.

    You still haven't given us one. And, what, three posts now? So yours has to be at least 3 times as interesting as everyone else's here. If that's not possible yours must be as interesting as possible.

    JamesKeenan on
  • Vrtra TheoryVrtra Theory Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I believe that Planescape: Torment is the last good Planescape game I will ever play. Hopefully somebody someday will prove me wrong!

    Vrtra Theory on
    Are you a Software Engineer living in Seattle? HBO is hiring, message me.
  • GafotoGafoto Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    ...but there must be something, even though most people doubt it, even though its probably not true, that feels right to you and you must believe?

    The american people won't elect another C student.

    I know it's crazier than scientology, but I can't help myself.

    Gafoto on
    sierracrest.jpg
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    1. In my post I used the more obvious definition of belief, but not because I thought that I was required to. As I understand it, the definition of belief in this thread is the more general, conceptive, kind of belief. Also, you didn't give one. So you still owe us.

    To avoid confusion, then: believe, to accept as true, genuine, or real. Not the religious faith sort of belief.

    You still haven't given us one. And, what, three posts now? So yours has to be at least 3 times as interesting as everyone else's here. If that's not possible yours must be as interesting as possible.

    You weren't asking for a clarification of 'belief'? Then what the hell are you talking about? I already said I don't hold any unfounded beliefs.

    Aroused Bull on
  • darthmixdarthmix Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I believe that utopia is a legitimate possibility. Or at least, some scheme of social organization that's so dramatically better than ours that it would seem to us like utopia. If we can manage not to kill ourselves off, I give us pretty good odds of reaching it on a long enough time scale.
    I wouldn't say I believe it, exactly, but I think there's like a 90%+ chance that there is something we would define as life somewhere else in the universe.

    I'd be willing to say 100%. Copernican principle for teh win.

    darthmix on
  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against Russian warships) Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Man, Entropykid would have just had a ball in this topic.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    1. In my post I used the more obvious definition of belief, but not because I thought that I was required to. As I understand it, the definition of belief in this thread is the more general, conceptive, kind of belief. Also, you didn't give one. So you still owe us.

    To avoid confusion, then: believe, to accept as true, genuine, or real. Not the religious faith sort of belief.

    You still haven't given us one. And, what, three posts now? So yours has to be at least 3 times as interesting as everyone else's here. If that's not possible yours must be as interesting as possible.

    You weren't asking for a clarification of 'belief'? Then what the hell are you talking about? I already said I don't hold any unfounded beliefs.

    I already clarified that neither I, nor the thread as I understand it, are specifically asking for beliefs in that sense. There is not one thing you believe (as in you believe the sun will rise tomorrow) without proof? I realise we're just arguing semantics, now. But at least answer the thread in a more substantial manner than "nope." There has to be something you accept as true or most likely true without sufficient reason to do so. Something you believe by some reason which wouldn't pass the most cynical skeptic. You're human. There just has to be something.

    JamesKeenan on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    There is one thing: German is just English backwards.
    If only.
    That is the best thing ever.

    Elendil on
  • Aroused BullAroused Bull Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    I already clarified that neither I, nor the thread as I understand it, are specifically asking for beliefs in that sense. There is not one thing you believe (as in you believe the sun will rise tomorrow) without proof? I realise we're just arguing semantics, now. But at least answer the thread in a more substantial manner than "nope." There has to be something you accept as true or most likely true without sufficient reason to do so. Something you believe by some reason which wouldn't pass the most cynical skeptic. You're human. There just has to be something.

    I've been considerably more loquacious than just "nope". As I've said, there are basic axioms that I have to accept in order to function, like 1=1 and everything else of that sort. I've said that I'm obliged to accept a lot of information without personally proving it, working under the belief that certain sources can be trusted to certain extents. If a friend tells me they'll meet me at the restaurant in half an hour, I assume that they will. What do you want? There's not much more I can say than what I already have, except to admit that I believe in something without reason, which I don't.

    Aroused Bull on
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Exactly are Arb said. Look, this thread is getting dumb as fuck without a proper definition of what exactly you're asking. When belief without proof comes up, I tend to take that as meaning "faith" in one manner or another - belief where there can be no proof. Beyond that I could prove a lot of things, but I have no desire to do so and no reason to believe the greater scientific community is lying to me.

    electricitylikesme on
  • jotatejotate Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    How difficult is it to assume that the "belief without proof" this thread is looking for is the kind that is "without proof" scientifically in general? He's not looking for a list of generally accepted scientific theories that you haven't had the time to test yourself.

    That said, I believe there's a greater power. Even if it's as simple as a force beyond the physical limitations of our universe, something had to point the arrow of time in the direction it's flowing. And I believe it's unlikely any human will ever reach the cognitive ability to even fathom how it all went down.

    I also believe there's likely life, or evidence of former life, on Mars, but we'll never find out about it. Because that bodes very poorly for the religious officials that regulate everything that happens in this country, and I doubt anyone's gonna beat us to Mars.

    jotate on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited September 2007
    Mysticism.

    Shinto on
  • JamesKeenanJamesKeenan Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    I already clarified that neither I, nor the thread as I understand it, are specifically asking for beliefs in that sense. There is not one thing you believe (as in you believe the sun will rise tomorrow) without proof? I realise we're just arguing semantics, now. But at least answer the thread in a more substantial manner than "nope." There has to be something you accept as true or most likely true without sufficient reason to do so. Something you believe by some reason which wouldn't pass the most cynical skeptic. You're human. There just has to be something.

    I've been considerably more loquacious than just "nope". As I've said, there are basic axioms that I have to accept in order to function, like 1=1 and everything else of that sort. I've said that I'm obliged to accept a lot of information without personally proving it, working under the belief that certain sources can be trusted to certain extents. If a friend tells me they'll meet me at the restaurant in half an hour, I assume that they will. What do you want? There's not much more I can say than what I already have, except to admit that I believe in something without reason, which I don't.

    I suppose I should have backed off earlier, but perhaps my judgment was lax because of exhaustion. I usually stick a decently regular schedule, but stayed up the entire night after getting Halo 3, and haven't slept, because I have class today.

    I didn't mean to insinuate you had any obligation whatsoever to answer the question. I was being an ass, and I thought it was funny for whatever unknown reason. However, after reading your reply, it was a startling realization that I look like a dick...

    So I apologize.

    JamesKeenan on
  • Low KeyLow Key Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    ArrBeeBee wrote: »
    DodgeBlan wrote: »
    Well I hope your cold hard logic keeps you warm at night.
    Yes, it does, actually. I prefer my decisions to be rational. I fail to see how believing in something for no reason can be considered a comfort.

    I don't know about believing in things for no reason, but there are plenty of concepts that are so huge and unwieldy as to be unprovable that people accept on a regular basis because it makes like easier.

    I have the whole 'belief in the fundamental decency of people' thing for example. Ignorant, confused, prone to jumping to conclusions, harassed, frustrated and a little bit flipped, sure, but never fundamentally bad. I'm almost certainly wrong, but there you go. It makes working with petty crimminals easier, at least.

    Low Key on
  • LeitnerLeitner Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    That Britain is the greatest country in the world.

    Leitner on
  • DodgeBlanDodgeBlan PSN: dodgeblanRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    JesusChrist.

    How can they fill an entire book with things that real, world famous scientists believe though cannot prove whereas everyday forum denizens are grinding to a halt at the simple question?

    There are NO entries in the book that say "EVERYTHING I BELIEVE OR THINK HAS A WATERTIGHT BASIS IN FACTUAL DATA. ERROR" simply because sometimes people think things, for whatever reason, that are not or cannot be proven. at least not yet. thats how discoveries get discovered!

    I actually don't believe you if you say everything in your head is there because of concrete facts.

    DodgeBlan on
    Read my blog about AMERICA and THE BAY AREA

    https://medium.com/@alascii
  • LitejediLitejedi New York CityRegistered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Faeries (and other mythological things like them) and Magic. I have no idea why. Not that this stuff exists now, but that they have existed on our planet.

    Edit: The reason why I thought this was valid, is because it is one of the few things that I believe that I cannot prove to myself. Everything else I know comes from fact, not an arbitrary "feeling" I get.

    Litejedi on
    3DS FC: 1907-9450-1017
    lj_graaaaahhhhh.gif
  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited September 2007
    Everything is going to be alright.

    Loren Michael on
    a7iea7nzewtq.jpg
  • patrickironpatrickiron Registered User new member
    edited September 2007
    Isn't the very definition of belief soaked in the idea that we do not truly know?

    Belief: Something accepted as truth.

    Know: Aware of a fact.

    Belief denotes acceptance, while "know" =fact.

    Even the word “accept*” is defined without the words fact or proof. The idea that all beliefs must have **proof is to redefine the very word “belief.”

    If you require proof, then you cannot believe: you can only know.

    That said I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. ARRR...

    *Accept- consider or hold as true
    **Proof- any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something.

    patrickiron on
    biggerproblemszn0.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.