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Driving Stick
jotate
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I recently learned to drive a manual transmission car. It's more fun, better gas mileage, and generally cheaper cars. I'm really glad I did it. My friend has been driving stick for a while and admits I'm pretty solid at it with little practice, but insists I have one bad habit. I'm coming to you all to assess whether he's full of shit.
When I'm coming up to a red light (or even just going down hill), I've gotten into the habit of putting it into neutral and coasting. In my mind, it frees up the resistance and might let me squeeze out an extra mile or two per tank of gas. My friend insists doing this is bad for the transmission. As he approaches a light, he down shifts to slow down in addition to applying the brake. He suggests any gas I'm saving is negligible and will be nothing next to the stress I'm putting on the transmission when I slip back and forth to neutral at 70 MPH.
So, anyone know how valid his claim is? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but then again, I know very little about the complexities of the mechanics involved.
Also, any fun tips and techniques would be appreciated. I've been working on my no-clutch gear changes. That's fun, despite being likely pretty terrible for the transmission (worse than coasting at 70 anyway).
When I'm coming up to a red light (or even just going down hill), I've gotten into the habit of putting it into neutral and coasting. In my mind, it frees up the resistance and might let me squeeze out an extra mile or two per tank of gas. My friend insists doing this is bad for the transmission. As he approaches a light, he down shifts to slow down in addition to applying the brake. He suggests any gas I'm saving is negligible and will be nothing next to the stress I'm putting on the transmission when I slip back and forth to neutral at 70 MPH.
So, anyone know how valid his claim is? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but then again, I know very little about the complexities of the mechanics involved.
Also, any fun tips and techniques would be appreciated. I've been working on my no-clutch gear changes. That's fun, despite being likely pretty terrible for the transmission (worse than coasting at 70 anyway).
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However, around town I do the exact same thing - I rarely downshift, instead go into neutral and apply brakes. What's cheaper - a tranny/clutch or some brake pads?
Also, I never downshift into 1st. On my Audi, 1st only goes from 1mph to 30mph, so 2nd is perfectly fine if I do downshift.
Remember to rev-match downshift. Example - when you downshift, blip the throttle so the engine speed will sync with the transmission's speed when you go to a lower gear.
You can actually start from 2nd if you're gentle.
You don't need to actually let the clutch up each time but as you slow you might want to cycle through the gears in case you have to abort the stop, so if you have the car in 5th, put in the clutch, and then have to get going again around 30mph you don't have to think about which gear to suddenly put the car into
Because...you can't maneuver quickly?
and yeah, brake pads are way cheaper than a clutch.
B.net: Kusanku
I start from 2nd just as often as I do from first. Saves me some shiftin.
you can start from 4th gear if you like wasting gas and not going fast
B.net: Kusanku
I did this once just to see if I could without stalling out. I was successful.
So the general consensus is that coasting just to return to the gear you were in is generally stupid. But coasting coming to a stop isn't detrimental to the transmission. Good to know.
I guess I never considered that coming out of gear to coast for 1/2 a mile downhill, then shifting back into gear was harmful to my car. I've been doing it for fuel economy (18mpg in town on my last tank!). Given my assult on my clutch from how I drive, I ought to just pay for gas ang give the clutch a vacation.
I guess you Americans don't have so many of those pesky hills, bends and corners to worry about though.
In summary, your friend knows what he's talking about, revere him as a god of driving.
PS to LaPuzza - 18mpg in town is shitty mileage. My Golf gets around 24mpg with city driving and I don't coast. Buying a car with better mileage will save you more money than practising bad driving habits.
That's, uh, only the midwest. The rest of the country is quite hilly and curvy.
Yes to the listed of things above, as to it damaging your tranny or clutch, I'm not a mechanic, But i know that gas is easy to take care of than having maintenance done on my car because of a lack of downshifting.
And in response to the hills. Colorado springs near the foothills is just insane. We have crazy hilly roads around here. Learning to drive a stick here is a trial by fire.
This is not universally a good or bad idea.
But if you have to accelerate away from a hazard; you're fucked.
Don't coast.
I disagree. If you need fast acceleration, 99% of the time you'd need to downshift from your current gear to gain the necessary torque. Which means you're in the same boat as the person in neutral since you'd both have to change gears before accelerating.
Really? Why? And really, how can you tell just by looking at a car going by whether it's coasting or under power?
My two cents:
KEEP THE DAMN CAR IN GEAR. A good driver hardly ever uses his brakes to slow down. If you rev match like you're supposed to, the transmission will slow you down without ever touching your brakes.
There is NO reason to take the car out of gear while driving... NO REASON. You don't save any gas, and in fact you lose traction since if you maintain a constant speed in gear, the wheels keep their bite because they are being driven. If you don't believe me, take a corner at high speeds coasting, then take that same corner at high speeds in gear. You will notice the car has a sense of purpose as you keep on the gas, and when in neutral you are basically just steering dead weight.
This is coming from someone who drives AWD/FWD cars on and off the track as a hobby.
Coasting is lazy, and is the mark ( in my eyes ) of a bad manual driver. The whole point of driving a stick is total engine control. If you want to coast, get an automatic.
You can also look at it that like this : At 70 in 5th gear in most cars, you are about 3,500 - 4,000 RPM. If you pop to neutral, you will need to rev the engine again to get it back at those ranges, and drop it in gear. Consistency is KEY for gas mileage. If you maintain the same RPM's you will use less gas.
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Yes, you can tell if someone is in gear, or just coasting. Read my previous post where I talk about traction. A car out of gear has hardly ANY traction. This is easily re-produced by taking a sharp curve in gear, slight gas, then take the same curve again out of gear.
Out of gear you will feel the car is bulky and sluggish, and in gear the car will be more responsive and have a grip. This is basic dynamics, ask any truck driver if they drive in or out of gear. They will laugh at you if you say you coast out of gear.
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Eliminates the need to concentrate on rev-matching (because I am lazy), but also eliminates the problem of suddenly needing to accelerate, because the stick is already in an appropriate gear, all you have to do is release the clutch.
And really, how often do you ever need to accelerate out of trouble?
However, this is all a moot point. I only drove a manual on my first car. I loved it, but I drive an automatic now, and I'll never drive another manual again, unless I get a performance car like a WRX, or, YES GOD, a Ferrari, or something thats meant to be fun to drive.
Automatics are just too damn convenient. Cup doesn't fit in your cupholder? No worries, just hold onto it with one hand and drive with one. Girlfriend in the car who keeps wanting to hold your hand? No problem.
Girlfriend feeling a bit amorous? You can help her out :winky:
Quite frankly, I didn't get the car for the gas mileage, its just a game I play. I don't know many 400 HP cars that get 24 MPG. Any advice?
The Z06 gets 25ish if you're just lazing along on the highway.
I personally have gotten lazy and do what Dhalphir does, at least in my truck. It's got enough torque that it doesn't really matter what gear I'm in if I need to go in a hurry, though. On the bike, it's downshift through every gear.
Can you define what you mean by truck?
Do you mean the small two door sports trucks, that we in Australia call sports Utes? ie...these...?
Or do you literally mean a big truck?
Corvette's get good gas mileage
Sorry, pickup truck. Dakota with the 318.
I wish we got utes like you guys do, I'd drive the hell out of one.
They invariably have big engines...most of the people who get one get the V8 versions, which are 6L 297kw monsters.
BUT...they are the same engine which goes into the sedan version of the cars.
This is the ute again for comparison:
And this is the sedan.
Notice the fact that logically, the sedan has a lot of extra weight on the back.
These cars are both rear wheel drive.
massive power + light weight on the driving wheels = MASSIVE oversteer.
you really do have to be careful.
They did that in an Aston -- V8 Vantage I think. Went from 0-140mph in 4th.
Completely useless but a fun party trick.
Bikes use sequential transmissions, so you have to go through all the gears anyways to get back to first
This makes sense to me, as it means that I'm not applying direct power while I'm trying to engage. Then again, I've come to discover that a lot of my habits have turned out to be either worthless or actually harmful.
tl;dr - can I stab the gas with the clutch depressed for downshifts, or is left-foot double-pumping a good idea?
B.net: Kusanku
Yes, but a lot of people still don't hit every gear, they just pull the clutch and click down to first. It's a bad habit, in my opinion.
The latter quote is correct right, for shifting to neutral specifically to come to a stop? You're not operating the clutch anymore than you would downshifting normally, reaching the stoplight, and then shifting into neutral then. I try to stop myself from coasting on long stretches of downhill ending in a stop, but if I'm coming to a stop 30 feet away and I'm braking fairly seriously, I just push down on the clutch at the beginning of my braking period and keep it in until I shift to neutral once stopped, is this recommended or am I actually supposed to downshift, the entire duration of my braking?
I would think so, I don't even know how you do it. If I forget to put in the clutch and start pushing my shifter from a gear towards neutral I get a terrible grinding sound.
You pretty much can't fuck up your transmission on whatever you do in a manual except if you put it into reverse or 1st gear going 50 mph or some other retarded speed. You can do a shitton of unnecessary work by constantly down shifting or hitting the clutch all the damned time for no reason. But all in all, holding in the clutch, or putting it into neutral and doing whatever will not hurt your car. Even ripping it out of gear w/o putting in the clutch won't hurt it. It just takes a harder yank.
I don't down shift when I break unless I'm really bored, or I REALLY need to fucking stop in a hurry. Like, drive off a cliff or hit another car going 50 mph hurry-- which I just go into 2nd irregardless of my speed. Manual transmissions are dummy proof because people drive them. That's why it's so hard to get into reverse and 1st, only real places that you'll be able to make your transmission explode out of your car.
B.net: Kusanku