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So global distaster strikes, America gets fucked, what happens?
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Anyways, I was reading a manga, Highschool of the Dead.
Blah blah blah shit happens blah blah
Anyways, one thing actually caught my eye.
Basically, it brought out the scenario of the United States complete and utter annihilation. All executive branches were in the proccess of being destroyed. Pretty much the endgame of the Romero movies playing out. This was happening all over the world mind, you, but much MUCH worse in North America.
Their final order, however, was to launch Nuclear attacks on both North Korea and China.
At first, when I saw this, I was all "olol Japan thinks American's are crazy olol".
However, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.
If America suddenly collapsed, and the U.N. weren't in a position to stop them, what's stopping NK or China from just ruining the entire worlds shit? In that case, I can very well see an order being put out for NK and China to be wiped from the face of the earth, since, they are the two most agressive world powers with the most devoloped nuclear arsenals.
They could just point their nukes anywhere, and say, "Hey, we rule the world now, got a problem?".
And, well, that's not the half of it. you still have the middle eastern regions, Iran and the like, to deal with.
So anyways, get to it.
Blah blah blah shit happens blah blah
Anyways, one thing actually caught my eye.
Basically, it brought out the scenario of the United States complete and utter annihilation. All executive branches were in the proccess of being destroyed. Pretty much the endgame of the Romero movies playing out. This was happening all over the world mind, you, but much MUCH worse in North America.
Their final order, however, was to launch Nuclear attacks on both North Korea and China.
At first, when I saw this, I was all "olol Japan thinks American's are crazy olol".
However, the more I thought about it, the more it made sense.
If America suddenly collapsed, and the U.N. weren't in a position to stop them, what's stopping NK or China from just ruining the entire worlds shit? In that case, I can very well see an order being put out for NK and China to be wiped from the face of the earth, since, they are the two most agressive world powers with the most devoloped nuclear arsenals.
They could just point their nukes anywhere, and say, "Hey, we rule the world now, got a problem?".
And, well, that's not the half of it. you still have the middle eastern regions, Iran and the like, to deal with.
So anyways, get to it.
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Honestly if the USA got wiped out, I'd think the main problem would be the obvious global recession from such a large chunk of consumption being wiped out, rather than any military destabilisation.
The UN doesn't stop anyone from doing anything. It strongly discourages it with the use of sanctions, which half the countries ignore anyway. I love how when society collapses, only NK, China, and the Middle East are capable of causing world wide distruction due to... I suppose your perception that they are all insane?
Maybe you should be more worried about the number of unaccounted for or poorly guarded nukes floating around in the former U.S.S.R...
Edit: Also, when the hell did North Korea get nukes?
And China is the most aggressive country now? I mean, I suppose Taiwan thinks so... but what other acts of aggression has China made? Seriously, where do you get your understanding of International Relations?
*This statement is only true if you agree with the chinese conception of PRC's borders.
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I've been told all nukes were accounted for and that is just an urban myth. Any evidence?
Oh and to the op both Britain and France still have enough nuclear weaponry that MAD would stay in effect. Infact they both have a greater armament then China. By greater, I mean combined they have more then ten times as many active weapons as China.
I didn't make myself clear.
This isn't my stance on the siituation. I was going to save that for later. The stance the book took, was that the US, in a halfassed effort, nuked this shit out of China and NK.
Personally, in a worldwide disaster scenario, I think that China and NK wouldn't do anything of the sort, if it had sufficient military force.
Well, I mean, NK would obviously run the fuck over South Korea. That's a given, but that's about it.
China would probably take a humanitarian effort, and help stabilize Asia, and maybe, MAYBE sneak a good chunk of military force into whatever area they decide to aid.
Russia would be a problem, since an organized military force can add a significant chunk to their nuclear arsenal if Russia was also hampered by the disaster. But still, it's fucking Russia, and it would take a big move to actually secure it, so of course that would draw attention.
As far as "unaccounted for" that is open to a great deal of speculation.... as for poorly guarded?
It really depends on the scenario that downs the U.S. Natural disaster? Military conflict? Economic collapse/revolution? Aliens?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
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If you exclude America.
I imagine if a incredibly deadly plague situation that could not be contained actually happened, the US is a lot more likely to nuke itself in a last ditch attempt to contain it, than to waste their nukes on some random country.
So you're proposing that if the US was dying, it should nuke itself just to be on the safe side?
Um, if you read the original post you'll notice that's exactly what they did in the story that inspired the thread...
No, I'm proposing that the US is the most aggressive world power with the most developed nuclear arsenal.
China aggressive? North Korea nuclearly active? America collapsing?
This shit only happens in Manga. In such a scenario I imagine America would send out a rag tag group of Gundams to go around the world defeating the last evils. These are the Last Americans.
That's okay, Minmei will sing and then everything will work out in the end.
Nobody is retarded enough to think there wont be a return strike.
History is filled with people who've ignored remote possibilities and eventually had to pay the price.
The scenario just sounds plain silly to me. The whole world is going to zombie hell, what's the point of, 'We'd better take as many other countries with us as we can!"
Yeah, but none has been as big as ignoring the fact that a whole country could be whiped out.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Apparently the writer felt the US government would much rather go out with a nuclear holocaust.
Nah, I really doubt the west or china would be quite that stupid. I mean there would be a definate shift in the balance of world power and economically things would take a turn for the worst but anyone who did something particularly stupid would quickly find themselves crushed.
Except all those incidents when one side had information saying the other side had struck (or was striking) first. There's also the logic "tensions are high and we really think they might nuke us first, so we'll nuke first and target all their nukes, reducing the threat significantly."
Also, your logic is working on the basis that everyone's totally sane and completely reasonable all the time, which obviously isn't the case.
And the OP's basic premise is pretty ridiculous and backed up by nonsense ideas and bizarre US media propaganda campaigns - China *isn't* aggressive, there's nothing to suggest it would declare itself ruler of the planet in the case of the US collapsing (because it wouldn't manage it anyway) and it doesn't have a nuclear force as large as many other nations, or as well developed. Really, if it came down to a nuclear war between the UK and/or France vs. China, the former two both have range and numbers to beat China hands down from what I understand (I'm not even sure China has ICBMs). That's without mentioning India's or Russia's nukes, Russia having similar numbers to the US
And N. Korea? It's not some great evil, all-powerful nation - it could mess up S. Korea (conquering and holding I'm not sure about), but it's not like it could threaten as far away as Japan, let alone the planet.
Saying all that, if the world were falling apart and the US was collapsing, I'm sure there are plenty in the Bush regime who'd start throwing nukes around
Anyways, about China. We have a love/hate relationship with them. They sell us all sorts of cheap stuff, but we don't like their repression nor their rampant spying and so forth. But they are no where near as much hostility between us and them as there was with the USSR.
And China's strategic nuclear arsenal is set up a bit differently than America's, particularly in terms of size. They mostly believe that the annihilation of at least one major city is so unacceptable such that it is sufficient for MAD deterrence. Supposedly they have been expanding it a bit lately, but their missiles are both fewer and less potent than the US. The estimates I see have them clocking in at the 300 range for warheads, as opposed to the thousands or tens of thousands held by both Russia and the US.
China's still not fucking over Taiwan the way the US has fucked Panama/Honduras/Nicaragua/Guatemala/Chile/Congo/Philippines/etc
That's because they know that they would piss off the west extra fierce if they did. We've propped up the nationalists before (Taiwan's controlling group that puts it at odds with China proper), but we have far less connection to the other targets of Chinese influence, such as the Tibetans.