Last levels and Game endings

Snare

I haven't completed that many games in all honesty, but as I have recently got myself a 360 I've found myself playing games from start to finish. And I've noticed something...

I keep finding last levels and more obviously, last bosses, to be on a complete tangent to the rest of the game!

My first example is Lost Planet:

Flying through the air slicing another flying robot - That is nowhere else in the game, and I found it quite hard as I had no experience in that area

The only bit I enjoyed was the satisfaction of finally completing the game.

Halo 3 (flame shield on):

Driving the warthog over exploding platforms leading to a final large blockbuster-style leap of faith - where else is that in the game?

Don't get me wrong, I loved the game as a whole, just didn't get it

I enjoyed both these games overall, I just didn't understand why things HAVE to change at the last minute?!

An older game now, MGS2:

Using a sword?!?! - You spend the rest of the game crawling, hiding, tranq-ing, then you end up with a sword fight?

I know that game is a minefield, but it really shows my point.

So anyway, what do you guys and gals think of this? Do you enjoy a consistent game? Or do you enjoy a completely new challenge at the end of a game?

Big Classy

I prefer having something completely different provided its fun. Halo's last level was incredible, I wouldn't want it any other way and MGS2, brilliant. I'm guessing it's done to make the last few moments of a game exciting rather than tiresome.

tarnok

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Big Classy

Oh, I just gotta mention the Metroid Prime end boss. The original game's end boss, not the sequels. That was insane. It's fun when somethings achievable yet really difficult....... but that was just wrong. I cry a little thinking about it.

anti-everything

Halo 3 doesn't fit in with your other two examples, driving a warthog and shooting enemies with a turret is not a new experience that you were unprepared for.

And regarding the final MP boss fight, I was just complaining about that to a friend the other night. I played through that in a few days and spent just as many days trying to beat him, inevitably giving up.

Big Classy

I have MP2 sitting on the shelf and I swear, I played it once and then remembered what happend in MP1 and vowed never to fall into that trap again.

JAEF

God of War:

Once you kill the thousands of you that are trying to kill your family and succeed in protecting them, the last fight that has you fight.. whoever that guy was in basically a fighting game style with completely new attacks was really annoying. I also may not remember but doesn't dying at that part force you to protect your family all over again? Or maybe my PS2 froze up and I had to go from the last save point. Man that sucked.

Jam Warrior

Metroid Prime Boss:

The final form Prime with the colour changing and the bulldozer charges? That wasn't that bad, I'm crap at these kind of games and even I managed it in the end. I thought it was a really cool boss fight and well within the parameters of normal gameplay style.

However I struggled all the way through a hard mode run trying to get the art gallery unlock, almost blew an artery beating Ridley but then hit a complete brick wall with the final Prime form. Realised I was heading too far over the frustration/fun barrier with no guarantee of a resolution and walked away with my sanity intact.

Mr_Grinch

I get bored with end bosses. I didn't complete Prince of Persia: Two Thrones because I got to the last boss, kept dying and couldn't be bothered finishing it. I knew I'd finished the rest of the game, there was nothing afterwards for me at that point and I left it.

Same thing happened with Ultimate Spider-Man, fighting the end boss, kept dying JUST before killing him (and previously had had NO problems with the rest of the game) and gave up completely.

As a rule, I simply hate boss-fights. This rule was recently smashed by playing Psychonauts, in which I've loved the bossfights.

Dusda

The only thing that bothers me about the last chapter in a game playing entirely different from the rest is when that last part is so incredible that I feel cheated during a repeated playthrough. MGS2's endgame weapon is a perfect example; yes I know it is unlockable at some point, but why the hell wasn't it available early on? It was freaking awesome, and deserved far more attention.

Loathing

Regarding the Halo 3 'run and gun' deal with the warthog race in the end, it was kind of like a tribute (i guess you could call it that?) to the last level in Halo 1 which did the same thing.

Except this time it was easier cause nothing really shot at you.

RaNcIdPsYcHoJoSh

tarnok wrote: »

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Same goes for every RPG ever made, really.

Zzulu

I always liked the Psycho Mantis fight in MGS.

vrst

RaNcIdPsYcHoJoSh wrote: »

tarnok wrote: »

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Same goes for every RPG ever made, really.

Uh what? Can you name a few examples?

(Oh, and Twilight Princess is not an RPG)

Unco-ordinated

I hate games which throw completely different gameplay systems at you for the last boss. Boss fights should be a real challenge which lets you show how skilled you are at the game, not a brand new bloody system to show off how 'epic' it is.

Sorry God of War, the first 99% of the game was brilliant but that end boss fight was fucking horrible. The same goes for most of the Onimusha end boss fights, when you're throwing DBZ shit around.

PatboyX

vrst wrote: »

RaNcIdPsYcHoJoSh wrote: »

tarnok wrote: »

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Same goes for every RPG ever made, really.

Uh what? Can you name a few examples?

(Oh, and Twilight Princess is not an RPG)

I don't know what exactly he means but the "boss forms" tradition seems more jarring in RPGs (for me, anyway) because the stories try to be character based. So we go from fighting an evil man to some sort of deity within a few minutes and, generally, this final form is not mentioned or seen before the final battle.

Dusda

vrst wrote: »

RaNcIdPsYcHoJoSh wrote: »

tarnok wrote: »

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Same goes for every RPG ever made, really.

Uh what? Can you name a few examples?

(Oh, and Twilight Princess is not an RPG)

Final Fantasy IX is the largest offender that comes to mind.

I am Necron! You have never heard of me in any reference ever, but I am here and pissed and I really have nothing to do with any events prior, but you are here and we must fight!

Snare

Loathing wrote: »

Regarding the Halo 3 'run and gun' deal with the warthog race in the end, it was kind of like a tribute (i guess you could call it that?) to the last level in Halo 1 which did the same thing.

Except this time it was easier cause nothing really shot at you.

Ahhh I see, I havent played Halo 1, so I didnt know that, I suppose that does make some kind of sense!

I did however feel like the build up to killing the prophet was a nice way to end things, although a little easy

I suppose it comes down to a storytelling element, or lack of. MGS2 used the ending to explain things, and the gameplay seemed irrelevant. Halo 3 was another example of how to sum up that part of the story, and same applies to Lost Planet. Maybe directors/devs need a bit more time spent on the end?


Can anyone name any great endings? Or games that are worth playing just for the ending?

subedii

I really enjoyed the ending to Planescape: Torment.

Really the entire final plane IS the ending. You find out who you are, why things happened as they did, and ultimately the final battle can be settled simply with a conversation, and being able to say goodbye to your friends before you do. The ending cinematic is largely short and inevitable (barring of course, that you can simply unmake yourself altogether and remove yourself from existence), but the meaning that's attached to it depends on how you've viewed the events of the game leading up to that point.

Loathing

The ending to Lost Planet was Meh, as you said, but otherwise a decent game. Now that I think about games with good endings, I can think of more games with bad endings then with good ones. A few that come to mind are:

Final Fantasy 10
Eternal Sonata
Two Worlds
Saint's Row

A decent ending that came to mind while writing this was Overlord - good game, and it also has multiple endings (good/bad) but they are good as well. The story flows decently, even if it really isn't that deep but in the end it delivers. The only miff I have with it is that the Bad ending takes a helluva lot of work to get.

The Black Hunter

Devil May Cry's last level of

flying around in demon space

tendoboy101

tarnok wrote: »

I didn't read your examples because I haven't played those games, but I nominate Twilight Princess. The last boss was utterly absent for most of the game, both physically and in apparent influence. It really felt like you had beaten the game after the penultimate boss.

Yes yes YES. I was incredibly let down by that moment. The end fight of the game was epic, great music and mechanics, but why you were fighting him was ridiculous. No lead up at all. I could think of a small list a ways to easily make that fight better. Ugh.

Unco-ordinated

Loathing wrote: »

The ending to Lost Planet was Meh, as you said, but otherwise a decent game. Now that I think about games with good endings, I can think of more games with bad endings then with good ones. A few that come to mind are:

Final Fantasy 10
Eternal Sonata
Two Worlds
Saint's Row

A decent ending that came to mind while writing this was Overlord - good game, and it also has multiple endings (good/bad) but they are good as well. The story flows decently, even if it really isn't that deep but in the end it delivers. The only miff I have with it is that the Bad ending takes a helluva lot of work to get.

FFX had a great ending. The only problem with it was that FFX-2 ruined it (and I say that as someone that liked FFX-2).

Lork

Dusda wrote: »

The only thing that bothers me about the last chapter in a game playing entirely different from the rest is when that last part is so incredible that I feel cheated during a repeated playthrough. MGS2's endgame weapon is a perfect example; yes I know it is unlockable at some point, but why the hell wasn't it available early on? It was freaking awesome, and deserved far more attention.

Similarly, in Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.

The sword fight with Ganon. Up until that point, the enemies in that game existed only to annoy, not endanger you. It seemed like any attack, no matter how painful it looked, only took off a quarter of a heart. And then Ganon showed up, and not only did he look badass, but he acted like it. Blocking every standard attack, hitting you for 4 hearts per swing, and just being awesome in general. There was finally an actual use for all of the heart pieces and items that I had collected.

It was a very memorable fight, but it totally invalidated the whole experience that came before it. I mean, why couldn't the whole game have been like that?

Snare

I think that my fave last boss/level was Sonic 2, taking down Metal Sonic and Robotnik! Mario 64 had a really good last level and boss, it was the same as the rest of the game, but just stepped up in difficulty a bit! Really obvious games, but only ones I really played all the way through!

Snare

Lork wrote: »

Dusda wrote: »

The only thing that bothers me about the last chapter in a game playing entirely different from the rest is when that last part is so incredible that I feel cheated during a repeated playthrough. MGS2's endgame weapon is a perfect example; yes I know it is unlockable at some point, but why the hell wasn't it available early on? It was freaking awesome, and deserved far more attention.

Similarly, in Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker.

The sword fight with Ganon. Up until that point, the enemies in that game existed only to annoy, not endanger you. It seemed like any attack, no matter how painful it looked, only took off a quarter of a heart. And then Ganon showed up, and not only did he look badass, but he acted like it. Blocking every standard attack, hitting you for 4 hearts per swing, and just being awesome in general. There was finally an actual use for all of the heart pieces and items that I had collected.

It was a very memorable fight, but it totally invalidated the whole experience that came before it. I mean, why couldn't the whole game have been like that?

I agree Ganon was awesome, but at the same time, I didnt even know what I did to kill him, It felt like an accident, I didnt feel like I did anything!! The penultimate boss was the best bit!

Trying to arrow that damn snake thing in the ass

Lork

Jam Warrior wrote: »

Metroid Prime Boss:

The final form Prime with the colour changing and the bulldozer charges? That wasn't that bad, I'm crap at these kind of games and even I managed it in the end. I thought it was a really cool boss fight and well within the parameters of normal gameplay style.

However I struggled all the way through a hard mode run trying to get the art gallery unlock, almost blew an artery beating Ridley but then hit a complete brick wall with the final Prime form. Realised I was heading too far over the frustration/fun barrier with no guarantee of a resolution and walked away with my sanity intact.

Haha. I remember beating the Metroid Prime with literally one point of energy left... And then it pulled another form out of its ass.

Retro is really bad at boss design. Their favourite tactic for increasing difficulty is to let their bosses become invincible at will, so you have to wait for a random number generator to hit the right value before you can even try to attack it. Meta Ridley was the worst about this - even though he was technically easier than the last boss, he still pissed me off more.

And before anyone complains, no, the fact that you fight Ridley in a Metroid game is not a fucking spoiler.

Loathing

Unco-ordinated wrote: »

Loathing wrote: »

The ending to Lost Planet was Meh, as you said, but otherwise a decent game. Now that I think about games with good endings, I can think of more games with bad endings then with good ones. A few that come to mind are:

Final Fantasy 10
Eternal Sonata
Two Worlds
Saint's Row

A decent ending that came to mind while writing this was Overlord - good game, and it also has multiple endings (good/bad) but they are good as well. The story flows decently, even if it really isn't that deep but in the end it delivers. The only miff I have with it is that the Bad ending takes a helluva lot of work to get.

FFX had a great ending. The only problem with it was that FFX-2 ruined it (and I say that as someone that liked FFX-2).

I liked FFX, it was a great game and I loved the battle system/sphere grid system. FFX-2....great battle system, it was smooth as hell for its time, and the whole costume thing was cool (even though it made me felt like I was playing some sort of barbie sim or something) but the game itself....bleh. For me it was one of those games where your parents yell at you if your playing it, but you tell them your watching porn and they go "Oh, ok" and leave you alone.

So yea, didnt like it.

Oh, and anyone play Astonishia Story for the PSP? Dear god, the ending was godamn stupid. Wait, sorry, I never made it to the ending, because the last boss fight(s) were absolutely impossible. Like, you fight the first boss that you think is the last one, and it kicks the living hell out of you, and it takes like twenty minutes to boot. Then you finally kill it and you all "Awesome, I beat the game!".

Yea, no.

You then fight another boss that just rapes you. That's it. It's just there for the purpose of pissing you off. Between the two boss fights you don't get a break, so you immediately go from the first boss to the other one, low HP/no mana, the works. Goddammit, worst boss fight sequence EVER.

Gyral

I'm glad someone mentioned FF9 because the final boss in that game was a total bullshit moment.

I'd also like to mention Arc the Lad Twilight of the Spirits where the game is complete easy mode up until the final boss, who totally ramps up the difficulty level to SMT levels, making you feel like you entered a totally different game.

Italax

Snare wrote: »

Loathing wrote: »

Regarding the Halo 3 'run and gun' deal with the warthog race in the end, it was kind of like a tribute (i guess you could call it that?) to the last level in Halo 1 which did the same thing.

Except this time it was easier cause nothing really shot at you.

Ahhh I see, I havent played Halo 1, so I didnt know that, I suppose that does make some kind of sense!

I did however feel like the build up to killing the prophet was a nice way to end things, although a little easy

I suppose it comes down to a storytelling element, or lack of. MGS2 used the ending to explain things, and the gameplay seemed irrelevant. Halo 3 was another example of how to sum up that part of the story, and same applies to Lost Planet. Maybe directors/devs need a bit more time spent on the end?


Can anyone name any great endings? Or games that are worth playing just for the ending?

Traditional mention of Metal Gear Solid 3. The final boss fight and cutscenes work perfectly together.

Zzulu

Grim Fandango


and also Half-Life. Sure, Xen was not the greatest thing ever, but the trainride with the G-gman and the two choices you got to make was brilliant for the time I think.

Big Classy

Oblivions ending was pretty epic. Then there's the Legacy of Kain series, I think all the titles have a really good plot in those games but the Soul Reaver ones in particular are great.

Lork

Snare wrote: »

I think that my fave last boss/level was Sonic 2, taking down Metal Sonic and Robotnik! Mario 64 had a really good last level and boss, it was the same as the rest of the game, but just stepped up in difficulty a bit! Really obvious games, but only ones I really played all the way through!

Oh, don't even get me started on the bullshit that was the last level of Sonic 2. No rings? Fuck you. Requiring pixel perfect accuracy to hit the last boss and killing you if you miss? Eat a dick. Having to do that over 10 times? Die in a fire. Making you fight Metal Sonic again every time you die? Whoever is responsible for this, I hate you so much.

Zzulu

I personally thought the whole ending to oblivion was terrible.

The

dragon

was kind of cool, but that is it.

Big Classy

Zzulu wrote: »

I personally thought the whole ending to oblivion was terrible.

The

dragon

was kind of cool, but that is it.

That's pretty much all I thought was cool.
That wasn't the ending? O_o

Cherrn

It's worth playing through all the Thief games for the Thief 3 ending. It's absolutely marvelous.

Zzulu

Big Isy wrote: »

Zzulu wrote: »

I personally thought the whole ending to oblivion was terrible.

The

dragon

was kind of cool, but that is it.

That's pretty much all I thought was cool.
That wasn't the ending? O_o

Well the "boss" or whatever the red giant was, and the events going on around the player looked and felt pretty dull. The story was mediocre in itself so the payoff just didn't feel that great

Waka Laka

Ninja Gaiden's last boss was kind of...

...too fucking easy considering all the previous bosses, seriously I was expecting something freaking massive after destroying the giant statue and the skull demon.

Bullio

I just finished Bioshock over the weekend. I, like many, was disappointed by the ending.

I saved all the sisters, so I got the good ending (I guess?). Being a Big Daddy should have been absolutely badass, but I thought it was terribly boring. The last boss fight seemed too easy. Except for the sisters repeatedly stabbing Fontaine, the ending was rather awful. I had a strong sense of "That's it? wtf?" at the end.

Big Classy

I think Bioshock should have ended at the twist. Everything after that point was just a let down.

The Black Hunter

I thought the end to ZoE was pretty much a let-down.

So was the end CGI


I wanted bad-ass mass hysteria and death.