A question about Diamonds

altmann

So I want to get my wife something nice, like diamond earrings or something but I feel like walking into a jewelry store is akin to throwing myself to the wolves. I really don't trust them and it's either go to the most expensive place where I know the stuff they sell will be good or just go to the damn place in the mall and get ass raped by people who don't give a shit.

Also, I've seen on amazon where they sell diamonds but this also seems like a scammy thing. Does anyone have any experience in this area or advice? I'm thinking of spending like $1k or so, what can I expect?

Thanks.

grungebox

Can't go wrong with Blue Nile.

Djeet

if you want to educate yourself a bit I'd recommend going to a standalone brick-and-mortar jewelry store (not a mall store) where they will let you look at loose diamonds, and let them give you their spiel on the 4 C's.

when you're ready to buy see if you can find a local estate jewelry dealer/appraiser/broker. this may not be easy, but you could try the following line at a medium to high end standalone jewelry store "hey, i have bought/inherited a piece of jewelry and i need to get an independent appraisal for insurance purposes". most jewelry stores don't want to appraise stuff they don't sell.

buying from a store, you will pay retail. going to an independent you could get a better deal. you also might get access to older estate pieces some of which is just better made, or prettier, or have older cuts than you can get in the new retail channel. if you have the funds, you can get good value at auction (e.g. sotheby's)

Irond Will

Not to preach about blood diamonds or whatever, but the price/ value of diamonds is heavily manipulated through supply controls. Plainly put, they're not a good investment because any of the players (mostly in Africa, Siberia and Australia) could flood the market if they got in a financial pinch. Plus, it's got to sting somewhat to pay a lot of money for something that really isn't that rare or precious.

Stones like sapphires, emeralds or rubies, while still a lot of money for a little piece of colored glass, have a relatively uncontrolled supply and are actually rare enough that their price tends to be around the actual market value.

Personally, I prefer semiprecious stones like garnets or aquamarines or whatever. Colored stones also complement a woman's natural coloration far better than diamonds if chosen carefully.

Still, a good number of women have to have diamonds and diamonds only. If you're in that boat, make sure you shop around a lot, and try not to fall into the trap of paying a whole lot of extra money for shit like "clarity" or "flawlessness". Synthetic diamonds are another option - they're chemically perfect and relatively reasonably priced.

DrFrylock

Know that, if you buy retail, in addition to the price manipulation of the diamond industry itself, the retailers have a standard markup they apply called "keystone" markup. Keystone markup is 100%. That's right, whatever they bought the jewelry for, you're paying double that. Going with an estate jeweler, a wholesaler, or an independent may allow you to get the same product for a lot less.

corcorigan

Bad investment - seeing as perfect diamonds can be made industrially now, and you are paying massively over the odds because established players like keeping people paying lots of money for things.

They do look pretty though. Everyone else here seems to have given rather solid, knowledgeable advice.

JeffH

grungebox wrote: »

Can't go wrong with Blue Nile.

altmann

Well I'm not "investing" in a diamond, I'm buying it for my wife. I checked out Blue Nile and it's actually pretty rad, they have so many criteria you can sort from and narrow your diamonds down etc. Thanks!

Irond Will

Please, at least look over Diamond Nexus to compare prices for manmade or natural diamonds. It's really a lot lot more reasonably priced for larger, better, actual, real diamonds.

Thanatos

I can't recommend synthetic diamonds enough. Not cubic zirconia, but actual synthetic diamonds. They're identical to "natural" diamonds, only you know no one was raped and/or murdered to get them.

altmann

So is Nexus or whatever a "synthetic diamond" place?

Seriously, these prices are so low it's almost stupid and really, I'd feel like an asshole. "hey hon, here's a 2 carat ring that cost less than my Xbox". I mean, I'd HAVE to tell her. I don't know...

EDIT: Replaced "laptop" with "Xbox" as they're even cheaper than I thought.

Hlubocky

I'm no expert on diamonds, but we do a decent amount of talking about the subject here at work. The fact that that Diamond Nexus website has "Diamond Simulant" slathered all over it makes me think these are not actual synthetic diamonds but in reality some other substance that closely mirrors diamonds. If I am wrong, someone correct me. I mean, if it was a real diamond, why bother adding the word "simulant" to the end of every occurence on the site?

DrFrylock

Nexus is a "diamond simulant" place, which means you're getting a substance that closely matches diamond but is not diamond.

Synthetic diamond is real diamond, only grown in a lab instead of underground. Examples include Gemesis and Apollo. Gemesis diamonds are yellow in color and probably not what you're looking for. Apollo Diamonds are clear and look fabulous, but they're not onsale yet (they claim their web store will open in 2007). They will probably cost maybe 1/3rd of what a comparable mine diamond costs.

Feral

Chatham is another company that produces excellent synthetic diamonds.

AngelHedgie

Irond Will wrote: »

Synthetic diamonds are another option - they're chemically perfect and relatively reasonably priced.

They also have the charm of not financing misery and oppression, if you're into that sort of thing.

JeffH

People know about blood diamonds, every diamond topic does not need to be turned into a sermon about them

contraband

JeffH wrote: »

People know about blood diamonds, every diamond topic does not need to be turned into a sermon about them

Like everyone knows to make/break card connections in a simple PC fixit thread? Yeah, we should stop mentioning that too.

EggyToast

JeffH wrote: »

People know about blood diamonds, every diamond topic does not need to be turned into a sermon about them

You'd be surprised. I agree that not everything needs to be a sermon about them, but there are a surprising number of people who haven't heard anything bad about diamonds. Or they hear "diamond cartel" and think "oh those are just some of the diamonds, I'm sure my diamonds are fine."

If anything, it's a good way to point out that opinions are divided on the gem. "Something nice" doesn't need to mean diamonds, and while I assume the OP knows his wife better than the rest of us, some women are particularly sensitive to diamonds. If this was a girlfriend or similar, for instance, telling the guy that he should get the girl's opinions on diamonds is a pretty big thing.


Anyway, to the OP, remember that good jewelry doesn't need to be about a massive gem or expensive flourishes, and that most of the interesting jewelry that people actually wear has a large element of style to it. As in, the design of the piece is what is key to the person's taste, not the number of carats. An interestingly-crafted piece with numerous small diamonds may be more interesting than a piece with a single large gem. And don't forget that small diamonds ringing a larger, non-diamond gem is usually very visually appealing.

Legoman05

altmann wrote: »

So is Nexus or whatever a "synthetic diamond" place?

Seriously, these prices are so low it's almost stupid and really, I'd feel like an asshole. "hey hon, here's a 2 carat ring that cost less than my Xbox". I mean, I'd HAVE to tell her. I don't know...

EDIT: Replaced "laptop" with "Xbox" as they're even cheaper than I thought.

Nexus diamonds are, chemically speaking, NOT DIAMONDS.

They do, however, have almost all of the same physical properties as diamonds - she won't know unless you tell her.

Hlubocky

...
They do, however, have almost all of the same physical properties as diamonds - she won't know unless you tell her.

I wouldn't get one of these almost but not quite diamond simulants without telling her exactly what it is, because I would feel bad knowing that she assumes it is a diamond when you in reality know that it technically isn't. At least with a synthetic you don't have to feel bad about saying that it is a diamond.

altmann

So basically there's people saying that I should get a fake diamond but no real way other than this really shady diamond "simulant" place?

I'm thinking Blue Nile...

Hlubocky

So basically there's people saying that I should get a fake diamond but no real way other than this really shady diamond "simulant" place?

I'm thinking Blue Nile...

The diamond simulant described in that 'shady website' isn't unique to that one site. Whether what you get is low quality (Cubic Zirconium) or something a little better like moissanite, they are all diamond look-a-likes. Here is an article talking about the Diamond Nexus labs business:

http://www.diamond.info/forum/index.php?showtopic=2456&st=0&gopid=11707&#entry11707

Take it with a grain of salt like anything else, but they definitely seem shady. I was under the impression that while you can't by synthetic diamonds (read real diamonds) from the labs, they are sold to third parties from which you can buy jewelry already made using them. Also, Blue Nile seems to get wonderful reviews if you are going the traditional diamond route. If what you are after is a diamond, I would look into the synthetics a bit more or go poke around the Blue Nile site (or go to a real jewelry store).

grungebox

If you want to avoid any blood diamond problems, you can hunt for Canadian diamonds (Polar Diamonds, I think, is one such company). What would you call them, "maple diamonds?"

If you don't care (and not everyone does) then Blue Nile is pretty good. They're expensive, though, but they're good. If you care, like I do, you just avoid diamonds altogether.

Chatham is a well-respected lab-grown gem company, though. I've personally seen and felt their lab-created sapphires and alexandrites when shopping for my fiancee's ring. They're indistinguishable, and in many cases they actually LOOK better, because when you grow materials in a lab you can control factors like crystallinity and defect density that nature doesn't bother with. I've never heard of Nexus. FYI, though, I bought a real sapphire. Chatham gems are available from any good local jeweler.

Also, synthetic diamonds and fake diamonds are not the same thing. A synthetic diamond is the same exact crystal structure, all carbon in the same positions, just grown in a lab. Cubic Zirconia (a typical fake diamond) is not carbon; it's zirconia (ZrO2).

Lastly, here's another place: Szul. For gemstone jewelry there's a place called Jewelsforme.com or something. I'd just bookmark those two for future reference.

Blake T

Thinatos wrote: »

I can't recommend synthetic diamonds enough. Not cubic zirconia, but actual synthetic diamonds. They're identical to "natural" diamonds, only you know no one was raped and/or murdered to get them.

I agree, you do need to realise that you will never be able to sell them as "real" diamonds, most synthetic places have their own QA system in places that actually labels synthetic diamonds as such to stop people then over inflating the price.

It's really what you want to buy though, a small "real" diamond with inflated market value and questionably mined or a larger synthetic one for the same price.

Chenjesu

My wife has a Chatham lab-created emerald in her engagement ring, and I would recommend them. The Chatham Website has a list of retailers who carry their stones, I found one and went to talk to them for a while all about stones before making a decision.

MichaelLC

JeffH wrote: »

grungebox wrote: »

Can't go wrong with Blue Nile.

I've bought jewelry and all our engagement and wedding rings from them. Quality is great, no billing issues or anything. Shit-ton of actual diamonds, but not a huge selection of jewelry styles, though.

Improvolone

Theres a chance she will have issues with a lab created diamond.

JeffH

grungebox wrote: »

If you don't care (and not everyone does) then Blue Nile is pretty good. They're expensive, though, but they're good. If you care, like I do, you just avoid diamonds altogether.

Blue Nile isn't expensive. It's cheaper than every B&M store I looked at while shopping for an engagement ring. If you mean it's expensive because real diamonds are expensive, well, yeah.

grungebox

JeffH wrote: »

grungebox wrote: »

If you don't care (and not everyone does) then Blue Nile is pretty good. They're expensive, though, but they're good. If you care, like I do, you just avoid diamonds altogether.

Blue Nile isn't expensive. It's cheaper than every B&M store I looked at while shopping for an engagement ring. If you mean it's expensive because real diamonds are expensive, well, yeah.

That is what I meant. I probably should have added the word "relatively" in there somewhere.

altmann

I looked at Chatham, they seemingly only do colored diamonds. Too bad the vapor created place isn't selling yet, they seem like the best of all.

-A

hijinksensue

I would be leary of amazon. Without being able to see the clarity and check it for imperfections, I wouldnt spend $1000. I would get a solid referal from a friend for a smallish jeweler that might not normally sell to the public. Wholesalers will generally sell you a diamond with no setting. Then you get it set elsewhere and its much cheaper.

Delzhand

http://achewood.com/index.php?date=06042007

MichaelLC

hijinksensue wrote: »

I would be leary of amazon. Without being able to see the clarity and check it for imperfections, I wouldnt spend $1000.

Do they have the grading report from the GIA for each diamond? If you can see the Cs and everything, it shouldn't be any different.

meloncollie

How about shopping at a conflict-free diamond jeweler instead of even considering synthetic diamonds?

http://brilliantearth.com