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Pakistan now Under Martial Law, Constitution Suspended
Bamelin
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/11/03/pakistan.emergency/index.html
You guys should have heard his speech on BBC ... he mentioned Abraham Lincoln when justifying the suspension of their constitution.
It will be interesting to see how the US responds ... I believe they need Pakistan's support for US activity in the region but this sort of thing is going to be a PR disaster.
One other thing, use BBC for more information on this ... for some reason major US stations aren't providing near the coverage on this as the rest of the world.
You guys should have heard his speech on BBC ... he mentioned Abraham Lincoln when justifying the suspension of their constitution.
It will be interesting to see how the US responds ... I believe they need Pakistan's support for US activity in the region but this sort of thing is going to be a PR disaster.
One other thing, use BBC for more information on this ... for some reason major US stations aren't providing near the coverage on this as the rest of the world.
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I know George Bush hates to hear it, but democracy and capitalism aren't the solution to every problem. Look at Russia: while it's good that Soviet Communism fell, its lapse in Russia just left a huge void for the mafia and ex-KGB to fill with a reign of racketeering and assassination.
My big question is how does this affect Pakistan's stance on Islamic extremism? What does Pakistan's future look like in terms of stability in light of these events?
I know Pakistan is a big western ally in the fight against terrorism; but they have also been essentially a haven for terrorists and Al Qaeda.
Also how would this affect their (shaky) relations with India?
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I wouldn't be surprised if India puts its military on alert for a few weeks but doesn't do anything else. Its an internal Pakistan matter, and there isn't a threat of war being made by Pakistan against India.
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:|O_o:? :rotate: o_O
Basically, none of what you said makes sense or is even feasible.
Edit: For fucks sake, he raided the Supreme Court. Yeah, I am sure he is just interested in defeating some terrorists.
It's unclear to me but I think what happened is that a ruling came down (or was about to come down) from the Pakistan Supreme Court stating that his Presidency was unconstitutional ... you can't be both military commander and President according to their constitution (I think).
This combined with the added pressure of having the former democratically (corrupt as hell but ...) elected president in the country and you've got yet another crackpot dictator feeling abit edgy.
How about doing some research instead? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7074591.stm
I think it's entirely likely he's behind the attempt on her life too
Someone give that man a cookie.
For all the general wailing, gnashing of teeth, accusations at western govts. of hypocracy etc etc whenever something like this happens elsewhere in the world, and even though I'm all about the suffrage principles & freedom of this and that, very few people ever consider the neccessity of democratic institutions and traditions to create a positive outcome from actual democracy. Apparently Hamas sweeping the board a year ago hasn't taught many lessons about 'exporting' democracy.
PS Tastyfish, Musharraf has a fairly western educated background, and has for some time pitched much of his rhetoric very consciously towards the west, so it's no surprise that his speech was peppered with western expressions. The man knew enough to go on the Daily Show & play Stewart pretty well; he knows his audience, and not all of them are Pakistani.
I can't get all fired up behind this statement when your sig has girls line dancing.
j/k :P
Has anything new been said by Khan since the military placed him under house arrest?
To put it simply, because Pakistan is currently a 'strong' US ally, and the people who would likely be elected are the kind who would be our enemy (or at least far from friendly to us). Those people would also have nuclear weapons at their disposal. Musharraf is not the first dictator backed by the US; the fact that people are pretending like this is new isn't so much hilarious as horrifying.
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US-friendly puppet dictatorships are only useful to your interests in the short-term. In the long-term, they breed the resentment which fuels your enemies.
That, and morality/empathy.
As evidenced by the fact that we got into this mess mostly because we were acting like a batshit crazy democracy.
Combine this with declaring martial law to suspend the Supreme Court and Musharraf's going to be hurting for popular support. If Musharraf goes down, the danger to US forces in the Mid East, specifically those in Afghanistan, is going to increase dramatically. I'm not seeing a huge impact on Iraq, as many fear, but our situation in Afghanistan is tenuous at the best of times and if Islamic forces can see the rise of extremism in Pakistan then, well, we're basically fucked.
How does a situation not dissimilar to "Taliban with Nukes" compare? That seems sucky in the short and long term.
Activist judges!
Pakistan isn't in the Middle East. They are in the Indian Subcontinent, or perhaps Central Asia. The recent clusterfuck that is Pakistani internal politics has a much bigger impact on Southern Afghanistan (which is definitely not in the Middle East, either) than it does for Iraq.
Wasn't Bhutto cleared of the corruption charges?
Yay! We only have to worry about fallout from Seattle!
I don't believe the extremist insurrectionists are strong enough to take over the country. Musharraf says that, but I think that is just an excuse for seizing power. As popular and legislative forces have moved against him, he has become more and more extreme in his attempts to maintain his position.
He's arresting and threatening opposition leaders and other peaceful opponents. Benazir Bhutto or Imran Khan are hardly the Taliban.
It's also worth noting that compared to a lot of other dictators, the guy is pretty fucking benevolent. He's far from perfect, but he's no Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Il.
Yeah, you're right, sorry. I was buying into the 'we need Musharraf to fight our enemies' false dichotomy.
I am actually kind of shocked how some of the regulars here, who apparently believe in free speech, democracy and all that other good stuff seem to think that this is OK.
I believe that all of those things are conducive to the happiness of people, therefore I am in favor of their promotion. I also feel that they tend to come naturally, as they allow nations to be more competitive and productive in a variety of ways.
Instability, and an ascendant, vulgarly violent religious group are not conducive to these things. Sometimes benevolent dictatorships are necessary. If populations could easily switch from one paradigm to another with no ill effect, I'd be all for freedom and democracy the world over, right this very minute. As best as I can comprehend, this is not the case. Some populations are perfectly willing to vote their newfound freedoms away in favor of the popular totalitarian meme of the day.
Such as the United States? I would say that every, and not merely some, populations are willing to vote freedoms away in favor of what they see as security.
Anyway, is this guy a benevolent dictator or one of the extremists you mentioned? I don't exactly like that most people here are chomping at the bit because the Pakistanis' constitution was suspended. Was it a good constitution to begin with? Or was it full of bullshit? Carrying the name "constitution" doesn't automatically make a document full of win. Maybe they'll get something better out of all this. I don't know. I don't know enough about the situation to be shitting myself over incomplete pieces of it.
Yes, such as the United States.
I would respond by saying that some populations are more in danger than others of throwing it all away. The U.S. has seemingly been teetering on a kind of brink for a while now, and while the potential amount we could lose is certainly bad from our vantage point, it's not anywhere near as bad as some other places.