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I have a problem with someone in my home (moving out not an option ATM)
Organichu
poopspeesRegistered User regular
poopspeesRegistered User regular
I'm an orphan. I live with my aunt. She's taken in her brother (my uncle, obviously). I am not close to this uncle (he spent a good portion of my 'old enough to form valid opinions about people' years in prison) and we don't get along very well. Basically, our personalities do not mesh. I joke relatively often but I do not joke when I feel as though it may make the object of the humor uncomfortable. This uncle does.
Examples:
a.) I have a laptop that needs to be returned to my old school. It is not mine to keep, sell, or donate. He constantly asks me (half jokingly) about letting him have it. I, while smiling, explain that it's not possible. While I don't think he's going to steal it, I think I've made it pretty clear to him that I don't find the topic funny. It's one of those jokes that got really tired and now I feel like he's just pressuring me.
b.) I work at a large retail store. He 'jokingly' asks me to steal him stuff. He asked me to check the price of DVD-Rs. I came home from work and told him the answer and he responded that I should 'pick some up for him' when nobody's watching. He says this with a smile, too, but I know that he's seriously hinting at it. I am not a thief.
c.) He is like a small child in that he always tries to 'appeal to the adult'. He never comes to me with any of his problems involving me. For example, today I am getting ready for work (and he has no job and so no reason to shower at that exact moment) and I rush downstairs to grab my belt and start to head back up to put it on in front of the bathroom mirror. I left my dirty clothes in the bathroom for this span of, say, 20 seconds that it takes me to rush down and back up the stairs. In that time he slipped into the bathroom to shower and instead of saying anything to me (I am literally standing in front of him at the top of the steps) he shouts down to my aunt "please ask John to get his dirty clothes out of the bathroom". That definitely bewildered me. I don't really think I did anything wrong (since I was still 'using' the bathroom), but even if I did- let's say for argument that when leaving the BR I should make it like new even if I'm returning moments later- I found it ridiculous for a 31 year old man to try to 'rat' on me instead of just talking to me.
d.) He disapproves of some of my hobbies and mocks me. For example, he thinks video games are for kids. Oh well. I work 40 hours (sometimes more) per week. I am heavily into fitness. I play two instruments. I have very little 'veg out with video games' time in a given day (unless I intentionally manipulate my schedule to make it a gaming day) and yet each time he sees me playing he makes comments. They're not outright awful, but it's obvious that he only says them with a tone of humor to avoid being blatantly hostile. For example, he and my aunt were discussing money issues, how to change phone plans and shop at bulk stores, etc.- just overall discussing how to decrease the CoL. I'm playing video games, wiped out from a 12 hour shift. He looks over at me and says (with a slight smirk) "if only John got paid to sit on his ass and play those games all of our problems would be solved". I was completely shocked and couldn't even respond. This segues into my next point...
e.) All I could think was "you dipshit, I just worked 12 hours, and when I'm finished here I'm going on an 8 mile run before my 10 hour shift tomorrow". He is unemployed and not looking for a job. That in itself doesn't bother me terribly (though I do find idleness kind of contemptable) because IMO as long as my aunt is fine with the arrangement it's not my business. However, when he constantly calls me lazy despite me being thousands of times more productive than him, it grates on my nerves. I mean, I failed out of college, I'm not the most punctual guy ever- I have my faults. I don't live a perfect life- I'm not a paragon. But I'm not a bum. I work, I study music, I speak more languages than I'm surrounded by. I think I accomplish things. It is so fricking obnoxious of him to come down the stairs in a wifebeater at 1:30 PM and call me a bum for not washing the lunch dishes... which leads me into my next point.
e.) He is intrusive as shitabout my place in the household. Like I said, I work full time. I also do the dinner dishes every night. I do a lot of the laundry in the house (not just my own). I feed, groom, and exercise the animals. I also contribute money; he and my aunt were discussing money issues again, ways to save cash and all. He looks over to me and says to my aunt "now all we need to do is figure out how much John is going to give to the pool and we can get the ball rolling". My aunt is normally a good mediator, not taking sides, but at that point even she said "hey, that's for John and I to discuss." All I could think of was "fuck you, dude". When my aunt and I discussed my rent/board here, I decided to give her more than double the figure she suggested. Every time I work overtime that cash goes straight back into the household, too, in the form of groceries (and not specialized ones for me like my uncle buys) and family toiletries and all. I was so infuriated because a.) I'm 19 and I contribute far more timewise, moneywise, etc. than my 31 year old uncle and b.) knowing that, he's going to try to call me out.
Man, I don't even know how this is weaving so far from my original intent of a short, concise post. I really do just have so many issues with this guy. He walks in with no job, no intent to get a job, he brings his girlfriend (and I let them have my room since they're two people and I am one- so I'll reiterate: I now sleep on a couch and have no room of my own and yet I contribute more in every way than he does), he is an aspiring DJ and plays his music at a tremendous volume to 'replicate how it will be in the club'... and while he has his 1,000+ dollar speakers cranked to 11, he gives me a dirty look for playing acoustic guitar in the next room.
So, those are some of my grievances. I don't think this guy would listen if I said anything to him. I think my only option right now is to approach my aunt and ask her whether she can help to get this dude the fuck away from me and out of my mind's eye. I appreciate all she's done for me, though, and I don't want to make her feel like I'm dictating the laws of her home. Can anyone help me out with some ways to approach her courteously yet with my objective in mind?
edit: also, ESL. In rant mode. Typos probably exist. Sorry about that.
Examples:
a.) I have a laptop that needs to be returned to my old school. It is not mine to keep, sell, or donate. He constantly asks me (half jokingly) about letting him have it. I, while smiling, explain that it's not possible. While I don't think he's going to steal it, I think I've made it pretty clear to him that I don't find the topic funny. It's one of those jokes that got really tired and now I feel like he's just pressuring me.
b.) I work at a large retail store. He 'jokingly' asks me to steal him stuff. He asked me to check the price of DVD-Rs. I came home from work and told him the answer and he responded that I should 'pick some up for him' when nobody's watching. He says this with a smile, too, but I know that he's seriously hinting at it. I am not a thief.
c.) He is like a small child in that he always tries to 'appeal to the adult'. He never comes to me with any of his problems involving me. For example, today I am getting ready for work (and he has no job and so no reason to shower at that exact moment) and I rush downstairs to grab my belt and start to head back up to put it on in front of the bathroom mirror. I left my dirty clothes in the bathroom for this span of, say, 20 seconds that it takes me to rush down and back up the stairs. In that time he slipped into the bathroom to shower and instead of saying anything to me (I am literally standing in front of him at the top of the steps) he shouts down to my aunt "please ask John to get his dirty clothes out of the bathroom". That definitely bewildered me. I don't really think I did anything wrong (since I was still 'using' the bathroom), but even if I did- let's say for argument that when leaving the BR I should make it like new even if I'm returning moments later- I found it ridiculous for a 31 year old man to try to 'rat' on me instead of just talking to me.
d.) He disapproves of some of my hobbies and mocks me. For example, he thinks video games are for kids. Oh well. I work 40 hours (sometimes more) per week. I am heavily into fitness. I play two instruments. I have very little 'veg out with video games' time in a given day (unless I intentionally manipulate my schedule to make it a gaming day) and yet each time he sees me playing he makes comments. They're not outright awful, but it's obvious that he only says them with a tone of humor to avoid being blatantly hostile. For example, he and my aunt were discussing money issues, how to change phone plans and shop at bulk stores, etc.- just overall discussing how to decrease the CoL. I'm playing video games, wiped out from a 12 hour shift. He looks over at me and says (with a slight smirk) "if only John got paid to sit on his ass and play those games all of our problems would be solved". I was completely shocked and couldn't even respond. This segues into my next point...
e.) All I could think was "you dipshit, I just worked 12 hours, and when I'm finished here I'm going on an 8 mile run before my 10 hour shift tomorrow". He is unemployed and not looking for a job. That in itself doesn't bother me terribly (though I do find idleness kind of contemptable) because IMO as long as my aunt is fine with the arrangement it's not my business. However, when he constantly calls me lazy despite me being thousands of times more productive than him, it grates on my nerves. I mean, I failed out of college, I'm not the most punctual guy ever- I have my faults. I don't live a perfect life- I'm not a paragon. But I'm not a bum. I work, I study music, I speak more languages than I'm surrounded by. I think I accomplish things. It is so fricking obnoxious of him to come down the stairs in a wifebeater at 1:30 PM and call me a bum for not washing the lunch dishes... which leads me into my next point.
e.) He is intrusive as shitabout my place in the household. Like I said, I work full time. I also do the dinner dishes every night. I do a lot of the laundry in the house (not just my own). I feed, groom, and exercise the animals. I also contribute money; he and my aunt were discussing money issues again, ways to save cash and all. He looks over to me and says to my aunt "now all we need to do is figure out how much John is going to give to the pool and we can get the ball rolling". My aunt is normally a good mediator, not taking sides, but at that point even she said "hey, that's for John and I to discuss." All I could think of was "fuck you, dude". When my aunt and I discussed my rent/board here, I decided to give her more than double the figure she suggested. Every time I work overtime that cash goes straight back into the household, too, in the form of groceries (and not specialized ones for me like my uncle buys) and family toiletries and all. I was so infuriated because a.) I'm 19 and I contribute far more timewise, moneywise, etc. than my 31 year old uncle and b.) knowing that, he's going to try to call me out.
Man, I don't even know how this is weaving so far from my original intent of a short, concise post. I really do just have so many issues with this guy. He walks in with no job, no intent to get a job, he brings his girlfriend (and I let them have my room since they're two people and I am one- so I'll reiterate: I now sleep on a couch and have no room of my own and yet I contribute more in every way than he does), he is an aspiring DJ and plays his music at a tremendous volume to 'replicate how it will be in the club'... and while he has his 1,000+ dollar speakers cranked to 11, he gives me a dirty look for playing acoustic guitar in the next room.
So, those are some of my grievances. I don't think this guy would listen if I said anything to him. I think my only option right now is to approach my aunt and ask her whether she can help to get this dude the fuck away from me and out of my mind's eye. I appreciate all she's done for me, though, and I don't want to make her feel like I'm dictating the laws of her home. Can anyone help me out with some ways to approach her courteously yet with my objective in mind?
edit: also, ESL. In rant mode. Typos probably exist. Sorry about that.
Organichu on
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I mean, you are paying rent (and he is not) and he has a room while you sleep on the couch? That seems hells of unfair. It even seems like something that should lower your rent quite a bit.
Personally I would call him out on his shit way more often, but that does not seem like the most constructive thing ever. I think the aunt route is really the way to go. (Or heck, even sit him down and talk to him.. although he does not seem like the most mature person ever)
b) Just say "No, that would be stealing" he says this because he thinks you will do it.
c) He's a dick ignore him.
d) Tell him to get a job. It'll shit him off but it will make a point.
e) Tell him to get a job.
e) (you actually put two e's in here) Tell him to get a job.
Basically he seems to be doing whatever he wants because he is walking all over you. If he is complaining about people being lazy, call him out on it, if he is telling you to break the law call him out on it, if he is complaing about a lack of money, call him out on it.
Edit: If you really just want to talk to your aunt (which is full of passive aggressiveness) tell her what you just said, that you don't want to dictate shit in her house and you are thankfull on what she does for you but you do have issues with your uncle.
Satans..... hints.....
I think both our uncles think the world has wronged them, so they believe the world owes them, rather than the other way around. It allows them to be hypocritical while still feeling like nothing's wrong. They don't want to see other guys doing better than them, which is probably why he gives you funny looks when you play guitar.
At that point in their age, some guys feel like they can't take on retail jobs, since it's beneath them. Never mind the fact that I worked with guys in their 40s at a gas station: one who eventually transferred to UC Berkeley, another who was trying to reearn his nursing degree in America, and another immigrant who was trying to support his kids through school/college. Some guys just give up on starting over (unlike the guys in the last sentence).
Really, i think you should ignore his dumb remarks and focus your grievances on any physical problems (like him using the bathroom at bad times) if you're going to talk to your aunt. It's not as hard to just forget the bad jibes; but if you don't, the other small factors will end up gnawing on you when you don't like someone and keep it inside. Although moving out isn't something you can do right now, you should definitely start planning so you have something to look forward to. Eventually, you could room with people around your age that you like, which isn't expensive if you double/triple. Of course, you'll want to include your aunt's situation as a factor, before leaping into any of that.
Every time he calls you lazy, just respond "Oh right sorry. Oh how's that job search going for you?"
Honestly, me personally, I'd berate him till he cried. But that's me. You seem to have more of a kinder soul to you. But you really do need to start being more direct with this guy.
My guess is it's the age difference that makes you unable to respond. Just tell him how you feel.
He makes a comment about you playing some video games? Tell him you just been working a big shift at work. Turn it back on him and ask him what he was doing while you were out putting cash in the bank. Besides taking advantage of your Aunt's kindness.
He wants you to steal from work? Tell him that's the kind of behavior that gets you put in jail.. or at the very least fired.
He could argue that you can't even drink yet, but you can work a full time job and pay for your own expenses at your aunt's place, so that makes you an adult. The problem is that you're just sitting there taking it, and you don't have to.
Seriously, we can't offer any advice that will really change anything because the easiest thing is to simply move out, which you say isn't an option. Therefore, the best thing to do is to first talk to your aunt, and say "What is the deal with this guy? Why does he always badmouth me? Does he have some problem with me that I don't get?" If she is oblivious or defensive, just say "Well, I work a hell of a lot and when I've got some freetime at home, I'm not going to spend it taking guff from him, so don't feel like I'm being mean or not appreciating you, cos he's really just being obnoxious around me. And I'm not going to let him walk all over me, and I figured you should know."
If she agrees with you, or hears you out, then talk it out with her and see about going forward together. If not, then simply stand up for yourself. If he comments about money, or job, say "I worked X hours today -- how much did you work?" If he makes a comment about the shower, yell back "At least I shower every day." If he talks about the budget, simply point out how much he [isn't] contributing. If he comments about music, or noise, say "hey, when you pay more of the bills, you can have more say."
Treat him as if YOU were the dad, and he was the obnoxious teenager.
And if it doesn't work, after a month talk to your aunt again and say "Aunt, I can't live with this guy. I'm going to start looking for my own place if you don't kick him out."
Given this, the best you can do is bring yourself to the point where he doesn't bother you anymore while working towards moving out. You're a bigger asset to the house than he is, and you know it. If you remind yourself of this fact out loud every time he says something to you ("I worked X hours this week and contributed X with my most recent paycheck." "I can't risk my job by stealing because we all need the income from it."), then I think you'll not only deflect his annoying comments but also remind yourself why you have no reason to be bothered by them.
Just assert your worth without resorting to insulting him. That brings you down to his level and will probably make things worse.
As for the jokes, as far as I can tell, he just thinks he's giving you some good-natured ribbing (although the theft jokes, considering he's a criminal, seem a little sketchy). If he makes a joke at your expense, give him a clever and non-hostile comeback. Given his situation, it's not particularly hard. If he doesn't like how you respond, he'll probably just stop doing it so much. If not, you can always just tell him you don't appreciate his jokes and ask him to stop.
About the other stuff, again, just talk to him directly. Tell him that you feel you contribute your share to the household and that should grant you equal status as an adult, and that it's really non of his business what you do with your money. It would not be a good idea to bring up his lack of contribution at this point -- it will only start a fight. Give him the same respect you expect from him, and let him sort that out with your aunt.
If you talk to him directly and it doesn't help, then you should start thinking about consulting your aunt.
If you decide you CAN, you can hold your rent money as a hostage. Say it's more convenient for you to stay with your aunt, but if your uncle doesn't stop being a dickweed, for your own personal happiness you may as well go rent a small place on your own.
If you CANT leave, talk with your uncle first - explain that you two aren't getting along, you dislike his jokes, that you work hard and contribute good money to the house and if he wont cut the shit on his own you'll appeal to the (seemingly) authority figure of the house, your aunt. Also tell him that if money's really tight he should own up and get a job, not try to get a job, get a job. Make that last part more of a side-note though, cause it's likely to annoy him.
That won't make living there more pleasant.
Brothers have years to form playful antagonistic relationships. These two sound like they were practically strangers when they began living together.
Based on past threads I'm fairly certain you're not the type to deliver insults, but you may want to ensure that you keep a polite tone when you speak with him if you decide to bring this stuff to his attention. If you bring these concerns to his attention in a criticising manner (and I don't mean the criticising in the negative, but rather in the positive), he may just tune you out and then amplify his negative behaviour in an attempt to regain your "respect".
I hope it all works out for you. Life is too short to be spent living with a douchebag.
Honestly, I think you need to have a talk with both of them separately. You probably want to do them one right after the other - uncle first. Then tell aunt what's going on with uncle before uncle causes more drama. Then, if things don't improve, you really need to consider moving out. Since you're already paying double the amount your aunt initially requested, just let her know that if things don't change, you'll have to cut back so that you can save up for your move.
Why are you sleeping on the couch? O_o
The main reason I'd rather speak with my aunt is because it's her brother. While I hardly know the guy, she has had 30 years to form a close relationship with him. I really don't want her to get the idea that I'm not showing her enough respect to not argue with her brother. Granted I am her nephew, too, but I don't want him to have any legitimate reason to tell her that I'm making his life rougher. She is an extremely, extremely generous person (to the extent that she will often support the 'underdog', regardless of who's right) and I don't want it to come to out and out conflict because of the possibility of her thinking "John's a young guy with a job and a future, poor Michael (my uncle)... John should respect that he's having a hard time".
It's definitely possible that she won't react in that way and that going to the guy is my best chance... but I am extremely wary of giving him any ammunition if this eventually escalates to my aunt.
Everyone who asked about moving out: I rephrase. I could move out, financially. However, my aunt saw me through some of the toughest times of my life (when I failed out of college after my mom dying, my aunt supported me, a 19 year old bum, for 5 months. House, food, emotional support, etc. She didn't mention a word about money. I gave her my first paycheck upon getting a job and then suggested she pick a # I should give her. I give her about 2.5 times of that, minus groceries and all). Right now she is sort of struggling financially and so until she gets her life straightened out I'd like to be here for her. With all of the pets, the family problems, the messiness etc.- I doubt she could find another tenant to pay her what I do. She is considering selling this house and renting so it is possible that soon I will no longer feel a responsibility here. For now, though, I'd like to stay even though I don't like the conditions.
On couches and bedrooms: his girlfriend is a nice lady and I'm a minimalist so I'm tentatively 'ok' with them having a room rather than the couch. They are two people, not one. However, it is assuredly a favor that I am doing for them (him), and so it is a constant thorn in my ass everytime he says something rude to me.
Then talk to your aunt say that you are going to have issues with him. But for godsake don't ask her to fight your battles for you, say that you just want to get yourside of the story out.
But tell him to get a fucking job.
Satans..... hints.....
Your aunt sounds like a really nice lady. Wouldn't she want you to be happy instead of living in a hostile environment? You should pitch the idea of moving out to your aunt and see how she feels. Your Uncle is never going to get a job if he doesn't have to.
Also, I think that a lot the little sarcastic quips that your uncle makes are because he is jealous. He is jealous of your youth and the fact that you actually have a future. While he may be perfectly content in his current life, I bet he would give just about anything for youth and a future. Just keep that in mind when he starts giving you hell.
This is really the root of the problem between you two. And it's not something you can solve, because, unless you install a mind-control device, you can't make him stop being a total loser. Talking to your aunt won't help much in this regard, because I doubt she can make him stop feeling inadequate, either. I guess you guys could try to stage an intervention to force the guy to face reality, but I don't know how well that would work.
It's very sweet of you to want to stick around to help your aunt. I don't want to tell you to just think about yourself and move out, because she obviously means a lot to you. Also, I think the fact that she hasn't come to talk to you about your uncle's behavior is very telling -- she either is feeling too stressed out to deal with this, or she is afraid that talking about it will make you realize the best thing to do for yourself is to move away. Having said this, I think it may be a good idea to talk to her, just so you two can be clear on where you both stand in this matter. Telling her that you want to stick by her in spite of the asshole uncle may relieve a huge burden on her mind. Also, would it be possible for you to take a more active hand in running the household and/or helping your aunt get back on her feet? It is possible that, with your input, she could figure out the solution to her problems faster, and thus you wouldn't feel obligated to stick around too much longer. Obviously I don't know enough about your situation to know if this is applicable, just thought I'd throw that out there.
I'd still suggest talking to the aunt first. She may be trying to figure out how to get this to work without stepping on anyone's toes. The budget thing strikes me as the biggest clue -- she wanted her bro to see what the status was, without you being involved, probably to push him towards getting a job. Or at least feeling guilty about it.
It sounds like he's being a total mooch. Talk to your aunt to see if she realizes this, and say that you understand he's been through a lot but you really need to know what the deal is.
Also, if he's being a child, is there ever a time where his girlfriend is around and he isn't? Perhaps talking to her could shed some light on the situation.
Ultimately, some people will simply do whatever they can get away with as long as they don't get in trouble for it. Currently he's living rent free, eating other people's food, and doesn't give two shits about it. He sounds like a sociopath, and it's a pretty sweet deal for a sociopath to be able to mooch off other people for everything. Where does he get any of his money for things? He's gotta buy *some* stuff.
Your uncles gf lives there too?
Does she have a job?
it really is that easy.
read the thread .... both are explained.
Exactly what I was thinking.
There are basically only two ways to deal with this situation: either work on your personal boundaries and learn to stand up for yourself (without being retaliatory or aggressive); or leave the situation.
Of course learning how to stand up for yourself in a way that is balanced properly between being too nice and being retaliatory is a skill that does not come naturally to a lot of people and is easier said than done. You can start simply by deflecting his attempts to poke his nose in your business.
"You play video games too much."
"That's not really your concern, Mike."
"You don't contribute enough to the household."
"That's between me and my aunt, Mike."
...and so on.
I will warn you right now, though, that the probability of you ever, ever, ever living in harmony with a person like that is for all intents and purposes zero. Every day you spend in his presence is basically "Organichu Practices His How-To-Deflect-Bullshit-From-Fucktards Techniques Day." Also keep in mind that when people like that realize that they are no longer getting under your skin, they'll try harder and harder with more and more outrageous behavior until you either get fed up and leave, or snap and yell at them. Either way, they'll then spend their energy trying to paint you as the bad guy, and you'll look back and go, "Man, why the fuck didn't I just leave six months ago?"
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.