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pickup basketball rules
VoodooV
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Registered User regular
So I've been playing pickup basketball with my coworkers every week for a few years now and I've been having some frustrations. I never played or followed basketball as a kid so I freely admit I'm ignorant of a lot of the nuances of the rules and I made this known to everyone after being invited to play. They didn't seem to mind. I'm 6'5" and 225 pounds so I'm big and tall and I'm somewhat quick enough to get in people's way. I'm by no means graceful so I'm fairly clutzy on the court, but I seem to be good at getting rebounds and guarding so I guess I have some value.
I've been sensing a lot of frustration towards me from the other players over how I play. I would freely admit that hey, there's a lot I just don't know so please explain what I'm doing wrong. So they try to explain what I did wrong, but then I point out how someone did the exact same thing to me earlier on in the game and suddenly they don't seem to have a response to that. So from my point of view, it seems like a double standard. Again, I'm the guy with the least b-ball experience so to me it seems very probable that its something I'm doing wrong, but no one has been able to explain anything to me in a way that doesn't come off as a double standard.
For example, a long time ago. I was guarding a friend of mine, He goes up for a shot and I jump up to block and in doing so, I barely graze his fingers and he calls a foul on me. I get pissed because it seems like such an insignificant contact. He later pulled me aside afterwards and explained that any contact with the shooter while he goes up for a shot is a foul. I still consider it a ridiculous rule given the contact nature of the sport. But I say fine, whatever, rules are rules. But today (and many times prior to that) someone did that to me and I called it and everyone's like..wtf? Another player deliberately plows right into me, and knocking me off my feet while driving to the basket. Later on, he trips over my knees while trying to get around me a second time, suddenly He's pissed at me.
Now I realize that pickup basketball rules vary from place to place. We're all 30+ and white, in the midwest. We don't really do the trash talk thing. We're all just trying to get some extra exercise y'know? But what I'm looking for is basically a basketball handbook that doesn't already assume that I know how to play basketball. I need a truly basic rulebook for pickup games if such a beast exists. I need some sort of fundamental benchmark of what's acceptable and what's not so I at least have a way of determining what it is that I just don't seem to get or if I truly am playing with a bunch of assholes with double standards.
I just seem to be having trouble balancing the idea that Basketball was initially this slower paced game and very structured and not much physical contact existed to what the game is now where there is a lot of physical contact and attitude.
I even swallowed my pride and bought Basketball for Dummies and even that book, at least it seems to me, makes the assumption that you have a grasp of the basic rules and what is and isn't a foul.
What I know is this:
1. pickup ball rules are not the same as college or professional ball rules
2. we don't call charging.
3. I'm guilty of doing something called a moving screen. but how is that any different from moving with someone and guarding them?
4. Any contact while shooting is supposedly a foul, but when anyone drives to the basket to make a shot, I see constant, insane contact. contact that leads to fights sometimes.
5. Kicking the ball is a foul, but what I think I see a lot, especially one player in particular, is that if said player is covered particularly well, he'll pretend to do a bounce pass to a fellow player, but to me, and I'll freely admit that it could be my imagination, but it seems like he is deliberately aiming at his defender's feet so that ball bounces off the defender's feet and he gets to call a foul. That rule leads into the whole 'incidental' contact vs deliberate dynamic. Because who in their right mind would deliberately kick a basketball? So it seems to me, every time that foul is called, the contact is always incidental.
TL,DR: I need a very very basic basketball rulebook that doesn't already assume that I know how to play pickup basketball so I can find out what I'm doing wrong or If im just falling prey of some attitude and double standards and I just need to dish it back.
I've been sensing a lot of frustration towards me from the other players over how I play. I would freely admit that hey, there's a lot I just don't know so please explain what I'm doing wrong. So they try to explain what I did wrong, but then I point out how someone did the exact same thing to me earlier on in the game and suddenly they don't seem to have a response to that. So from my point of view, it seems like a double standard. Again, I'm the guy with the least b-ball experience so to me it seems very probable that its something I'm doing wrong, but no one has been able to explain anything to me in a way that doesn't come off as a double standard.
For example, a long time ago. I was guarding a friend of mine, He goes up for a shot and I jump up to block and in doing so, I barely graze his fingers and he calls a foul on me. I get pissed because it seems like such an insignificant contact. He later pulled me aside afterwards and explained that any contact with the shooter while he goes up for a shot is a foul. I still consider it a ridiculous rule given the contact nature of the sport. But I say fine, whatever, rules are rules. But today (and many times prior to that) someone did that to me and I called it and everyone's like..wtf? Another player deliberately plows right into me, and knocking me off my feet while driving to the basket. Later on, he trips over my knees while trying to get around me a second time, suddenly He's pissed at me.
Now I realize that pickup basketball rules vary from place to place. We're all 30+ and white, in the midwest. We don't really do the trash talk thing. We're all just trying to get some extra exercise y'know? But what I'm looking for is basically a basketball handbook that doesn't already assume that I know how to play basketball. I need a truly basic rulebook for pickup games if such a beast exists. I need some sort of fundamental benchmark of what's acceptable and what's not so I at least have a way of determining what it is that I just don't seem to get or if I truly am playing with a bunch of assholes with double standards.
I just seem to be having trouble balancing the idea that Basketball was initially this slower paced game and very structured and not much physical contact existed to what the game is now where there is a lot of physical contact and attitude.
I even swallowed my pride and bought Basketball for Dummies and even that book, at least it seems to me, makes the assumption that you have a grasp of the basic rules and what is and isn't a foul.
What I know is this:
1. pickup ball rules are not the same as college or professional ball rules
2. we don't call charging.
3. I'm guilty of doing something called a moving screen. but how is that any different from moving with someone and guarding them?
4. Any contact while shooting is supposedly a foul, but when anyone drives to the basket to make a shot, I see constant, insane contact. contact that leads to fights sometimes.
5. Kicking the ball is a foul, but what I think I see a lot, especially one player in particular, is that if said player is covered particularly well, he'll pretend to do a bounce pass to a fellow player, but to me, and I'll freely admit that it could be my imagination, but it seems like he is deliberately aiming at his defender's feet so that ball bounces off the defender's feet and he gets to call a foul. That rule leads into the whole 'incidental' contact vs deliberate dynamic. Because who in their right mind would deliberately kick a basketball? So it seems to me, every time that foul is called, the contact is always incidental.
TL,DR: I need a very very basic basketball rulebook that doesn't already assume that I know how to play pickup basketball so I can find out what I'm doing wrong or If im just falling prey of some attitude and double standards and I just need to dish it back.
VoodooV on
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1. pickup ball rules are not the same as college or professional ball rules
- True. Generally the rules are a lot more lenient because theres no referee, and/or it would slow the game down
2. we don't call charging.
- Common.
3. I'm guilty of doing something called a moving screen. but how is that any different from moving with someone and guarding them?
- A bit harsh, i dont recall playing in a pickup game where moving screens were called. Its different because you're blocking someone without the ball from moving freely, essentially.
4. Any contact while shooting is supposedly a foul, but when anyone drives to the basket to make a shot, I see constant, insane contact. contact that leads to fights sometimes.
- Yeah, welcome to life as a big man
5. Kicking the ball is a foul, but what I think I see a lot, especially one player in particular, is that if said player is covered particularly well, he'll pretend to do a bounce pass to a fellow player, but to me, and I'll freely admit that it could be my imagination, but it seems like he is deliberately aiming at his defender's feet so that ball bounces off the defender's feet and he gets to call a foul. That rule leads into the whole 'incidental' contact vs deliberate dynamic. Because who in their right mind would deliberately kick a basketball? So it seems to me, every time that foul is called, the contact is always incidental.
- Kicking the ball isnt a foul, its just a violation that results posession for the other team and a shot-clock reset (although in pickups you often dont shoot free throws and just take posession, and theres no shot clock, so the net effect is the same as a foul really). Its a valid tactic to aim at the feet. Its done a lot to save balls going out of bounds. Doing it if you picked up your dribble and cant get rid of the ball in a pickup game is a bit dickish imho but w'ever.
just like in hockey, you can score a goal by deflecting the puck off of your gloves as long as it isn't intentional or a batting motion
oops, stupid quick reply box got me again
Another thing that seems to piss people off if I'm guarding them and they're about to get past me, I bend my knees down lower, not only so that I can move to keep up with them, but it also makes my knees stick out more and it widens my block. The guy will often end up tripping over my knees. Sometimes falling to the ground. To my recollection, I've never been actually called on it, and I can't see how that could be a foul, but players will often get pissy at me and it doesn't seem like they're mad because I stopped them, but mad as if I did something against some unspoken rule.
Another time is when I stole a ball while the guy was dribbling, but in doing so, I apparently raked my fingers over his hand or something. Again, I don't think anything was called against me, but he acts like thats something I shouldn't be doing. But: 1. its not like I purposely intended to claw at his hand to effect him losing control of the ball that I could get it. I just poked at the ball and his hand was in the way. 2. Again, is basketball not a contact sport? It seems ridiculous to be whining about some scraped up hand. Some guy knocks me off my feet and I twist my ankle and I'm limping for the rest of the day and that's not a foul.
It just seems like B-ball has this strange mix of "street rules" and "gentleman's rules" that don't seem to mix.
I don't play super aggressively, most of the time I can't be bothered to even remember the score. but a lot of what you're saying makes me think that the other players see that and they know I don't know a whole lot about basketball and so it's just a game of "what can I get away with" and I'm cool with that because that just means I should be playing more aggressively and I can live with that and it makes it easier for their whining to roll off me.
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Calling fouls depends largely on the group you are playing with. Some people come from backgrounds where rough play is expected and so they are surprised to see fouls called. Other people get touched and get their panties in a twist. Its just something you'll get a feel for eventually.
As far as basketball being a contact sport, there's a great deal of grey area. Its mainly supposed to be a game of speed and agility. The contact comes from fighting for optimal position for rebounding and getting in a good position to receive a pass. Keep being aggressive though. Just make sure your "fouls" are a result of going for the ball, rather than say, pushing someone in the back from behind. There's really not much else to say besides play more and get a better feel for the game.
Out of bounds - the ball goes out of bounds and possession is given to the team that didn't last touch the ball. Also called when the ball hits the top or behind the backboard or hits the pole.
Double dribble - the player picks up his dribble then dribbles again or the player dribbles the ball using both hands at the same time.
Kicking - this is not a foul but just an infraction. As Judge Joe Brown mentioned, it is only called when there is an intention by the player to kick the ball. Simply having the ball touch the foot does not necessarily make it a kicking infraction.
Traveling - Most players only call traveling in pickup games for blatant traveling. The official rule is that you can take 2.5 steps or take 2 steps and a jump stop (take the two steps then jump in the air and land with both feet at the exact moment) without dribbling. In most pickup games calls on traveling are pretty lenient when driving to the basket and you can sometimes get away with 3 or 3.5 steps while carrying the ball. Traveling is most commonly called in pickup games when a person goes up for a shot and lands back on the ground without the ball every leaving their hands.
Carry-over (Over the shoulder) - Another call that is called very infrequently in pickup games and usually only called if it is done very blatantly. This is when the player will dribble the ball above the height of their shoulder or when they wrap their hand under the ball during a dribble.
Illegal Pick/ Moving Screen - This is almost never called in a pickup game unless someone continually breaks this rule. A legal pick/screen is when an offensive player blocks the path of the person defending the ball by standing in one place and having the ball-handler use the immobile teammate as a screen. A moving screen is when the person blocking the defender moves their feet to continually block the defender. The person providing the screen can only block the defender by having their feet planted on the ground and cannot grab or use their upper body to push the defending player. You should basically screen the defender as if you are an immobile pole in the middle of the court. It is considered bad court etiquette in a pickup game to repeatedly provide a moving screen for your teammates.
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We have a little addendum to that rule: If you were the last person to touch the ball, but the other team is directly responsible for it going out of bounds...So, say I'm trying to swat the ball away from the dribbler, I succeed in batting out, but still, technically, he's the last one to touch it. It's still their ball. I'm generally ok with this rule when it's blatantly obvious, but sometimes it does lead to arguments over who actually was responsible. At which point it gets really stupid and delays the game and I say just call it out on the guy who touched it last regardless.
Double dribble - Yeah I'm guilty of this a lot, but I'm getting better.
Travelling - I usually get hit with this when someone passes me the ball on a breakaway and I lose control of the ball and I'm fumbling with it in the air while I'm running. bleah!
I don't think I've seen that one yet. I suck at offense and dribbling while moving fast, so I often pass the ball to someone better. Occasionally I get brave though
Now I have been called for "over-the-back" or something like that and I'm not fully sure what's up with that. I'll be standing behind an opponent and we both jump up to grab a rebound, He get's it, but I also have a hand on it too so I naturally try to pull it behind him, which would be harder for him to retain control. He'll naturally try to bring the ball down to his chest so my arm inevitably comes down over him.
Now there are two separate situations where I've been called on this. and the first is as you describe and I understand how that's a foul. But here's the other situation:
We're on offense, and I'm near the basket trying to get good position so that someone will pass me the ball. So I manage to get in front of the guy guarding me and I turn to my guy with the ball. But it turns out, that the guy with the ball is already starting to drive to the basket and I'm between my teammate and the basket. So I naturally start to back up, and in doing so, push the guy trying to guard me backward as well, but I'ts not like I moved with him, I just backed up, with my arms out so he can't get around me. I'm not reacting to his movements to get around me, if anything he's backing up too so I don't step on him.
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Yeah, you cant herd people out of the way like that. You're allowed to stand your ground (which you're then basically setting a pick/screen) and be an obstacle, but when you start backing over someone, especially with your arms out so he cant get around you, yeah, thats not allowed.
Then what can I do? The only option I can think of is just stand there and hope our shooter gets around me. If I move out of way without "herding" the guy behind me. That leaves my guy free to block the shooter which I don't want. This is the frustration I run into. Whenever I ask specifically what I did, I never get a straight answer, just "you can't do that," some whining, and people pissed at me, which just snowballs into more shit.
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Give it time, and don't bring up past rule breaking
@above post:
It's called shepherding when ypu do that, you have to step out of the way and hope your teammate knows what's happening.
As long as you're not blocking out the defender going for the ball, you are allowed to use your body to get better position under the hoop. It just gets a little bit iffy when you're doing this and your teammate decides to drive to the hoop at the same time. However, things get hectic inside the paint, and as long as you try to get out of the way without taking out another defender, it should be OK.
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Essentially, in a given situation, if you are forcibly moving someone from their spot you are committing a foul. If you are backing up, arms out or not, you're trying to force the player to move from his spot.
You are 6'5". Unless the group of people you're playing with are more athletic than average, you have a distinct advantage already around the basket without pushing people. This is also why people don't cut you slack.
edit: to make it about the thread, if you aren't learning the rules from just playing and watching, then they arent teaching well enough or the rules are too odd.
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You never played any competitive basketball did you?
To the OP:
I feel your frustration. I'm 6'7" 260lbs People often get frustrated with me on the court because of my size. I am more easily able to get position down low, my screens are harder to get around, and its harder to shoot over me. It's something you have to deal with in pickup basketball. The little guys will get nitpicky fouls and often times everyone looks at you like you're a baby if you call anything short of being body slammed to the ground. That's life.
Moving screens:
Your buddies on the court are right about this one. You have to have your feet planted. In competitive play you can get away with a small amount of leaning in the direction of the defender but not much more than that. As soon as you move your feet to impede the progress of the player you are committing a foul. The guy you are screening has to use you as a stationary object to impede the progress of his defender. It's his job to run his defender into you. It's not your job to run yourself into the defender. A lot of times you will set a screen and the defender will go around you. That's not always your fault. Generally, its the fault of the guy you are screening because he didn't set up his defender to have to go around you. Sometimes a defender getting through a screen isn't a bad thing as a smart screenee will learn to change his direction and actually end up putting the defender in a worse position. For screens just focus on planting your feet and making yourself as wide as possible. Cover your nuts so you don't get castrated by a knee.
The guy you are defending is tripping over your knee:
You would get called for this in an organized game. If he is tripping over your knee it means that he beat you to the side and you tried to cover by extending your appendages to impede his progress. Him tripping over your knee isn't much different than you closelining him with your arm. Give up space and get your body back in front of him. I get called for this one a lot as I'm not very quick.
Calling fouls:
Call your fouls. My general rule of thumb is: If it affected your shot to the degree it had no chance of going in I call it. Otherwise I let it go.
I don't call a lot of incidental contact fouls when I play, but in this particular instance, I would call a foul on you too. Sticking out your limbs (or knees) to hinder an offensive player's movement is a foul.
Again, I'd call a foul on this one too. Reaching in to steal a ball is a very difficult move. The reason it's difficult is because it's hard to do without fouling. If he's dribbling the ball and you take a swipe at it, there's no earthly possibility that his hand got in your way. It's actually the other way around.
I do genuinely like and admire a good number of the people I play with, but on the other hand, the other half are a bunch of annoying redneck assholes.
We don't have a lot of people playing anymore so I get the impression that having one more person quit is really going to hurt them. But on the other hand, maybe people are jumping ship for other reasons similar to my own. There is a lot of bickering over fouls even when I'm not involved.
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If you're not enjoying it, i dont really see why you'd punish yourself. You're not supposed to get stressed
If they bump knees, that's just unfortunate, but then, I rarely call fouls like that. Play D by cutting off the drive. If you ever face a big man, just body him up.
To correct moving screens, just freeze until the ball handler is past you. Dont move any part of your body but your head. As your timing improves, you'll know to move just as his defender bumps you and you get the almighty pick and roll. You're 6'5", and like the scouts say, you can't teach 6'5"
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It's like this with any good sized pickup group. There are always "those guys" in every group that plays at any gym. Anywhere you go you will run into the same kind of drama. If you enjoy playing the game and enjoy the exercise don't let these 'tards ruin it for you. Go out, play your game, and have fun. Ignore the rest.
Yeah, it's just tough because that seems so counter-intuitive to deliberately wait for my man to get by me.
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After enough practice, you'll get a feel for the rules.
Just touching someone will be called a foul, moving screens, etc. It's just the fact that I'm huge and they have a different set of rules for me. I've found a group of people who are really nice now, and everyone is chill and trying to help each other get better and just have a good time. But once in a while another group of people will come and it turns into a 5 v 5, and everyone is trying to get some kind of upper hand with fouls and such.
Now when I jump up to block a shot and raise my hands, I try and make sure that in that split section after the ball leaves the players hands and I know I have no chance of stuffing him, my hands go straight back down again so no foul is called. And with the long legs thing, that's one of the most gray areas I have ever been through. At first, people will just see it as "Hey, I was here first, move around me if you want to drive the ball", but as people play with me more, they think that I'm "abusing" this rule and doing it for the sake of tripping them due to my long legs, so it's a really slippery slope.
And as for screening, the way we play, we can get as close as we want to the person we want to screen, we just can't touch them in any way, so the closer you are, the better. Moving while screening was a pretty hard habit to break because I mostly play football, but most of the time when I screen, it works. I just "tip toe" behind them up as close as I can, put my feet a little over should width, puff up my chest a bit and keep my chin up, put my hands over each other and cover my jewels. I sometimes abuse the protecting the jewels thing by sticking out my elbows a bit in hopes of the person clipping my arms. Everyone plays dirty, it just depends how dirty with each person.
Also like you, I'm pretty clumsy and lose the ball a lot when I dribble too much, so I mostly end up taking the rebounds and going in for the quick pass and lay up. When I came back down with the rebound, people would swat at the ball, and they would usually miss, instead hitting me. So I "post up" by taking a strong stance, and squeezing the ball tightly with my hands, elbows jutted out, and I just twist and turn. Hey, if they're going to slap me, they might as well slap my elbows. This position also offers a quick pass to a team mate when needed, unlike hugging the ball. Once they get the idea that if they keep slapping at the ball and just keep hitting my elbows, they'll either stop, or keep doing it and well... get elbowed. Just make sure you don't violent flail your elbows and twist, as that could be dangerous.
I have a question.
Are you the least guarded person when playing? I guess due to my slow, large, and clumsy nature, people just completely disregard me when they're on the defense, so I can just cross the key and my teammates will pass me the ball and I go in for the easy lay up. It's not hard when you're 6 foot 4 (5 in your case) to miss a lay up, and it's an easy way to get a point. Sometimes, people are just so full of themselves and the basketball game turns into a pissing contest, and they'll call everything and anything. Sometimes I bitch and moan when they bitch and moan, it's just how I feel during that day. They have different rules for you most likely, just like for me, and sadly we're the ones who have to do the adapting, but it never hurts to take advantage of your hugeness to intimidate someone, but it's walking a very fine line, and I never intentionally do it, it's always when I lose my temper. Sometimes just a "Shut up pussy." does the trick.
This stuff you might already know about, but those things I pointed out are what I mostly play by, and they treat me well. Good luck and have fun.
I think in this scenario, by "ball handler" deadman is referring to your teammate, not the man you're guarding.
Basketball is all about positioning. The rule of thumb is that nobody can move you off the spot of floor you're currently occupying. That's essentially what you're doing by setting a screen - you're forcing the man defending the ball handler (excluding off-the-ball screens) to go around you because you've established your position on the floor and he can not go there.
By waiting until the ball handler (your teammate) to pass you before you move again, you are reducing the possibility of committing a moving screen foul because the play will have moved past you by then.
Although, judging by the amount of bickering you describe, I would likely not play with these guys much myself. Amongst our group of friends, the general rule is to respect the call. If somebody feels it was enough of a violation to call a foul, then we respect it. That being said, if somebody douches up a game with constantly calling small, ticky-tack fouls, then we don't invite him next time.
I think everyone got it wrong here. Its because you are bigger . they are small and white and overcompensating. They are no good and arent being fair. Call them out tell them to find a guy your size to guard.