[WoW] Paladin Thread: My spec is a joke

Munkus Beaver

And my mainhand is the punchline!



D'aawwww



What the fuck is a Paladin?
Paladins are either defenders of the Holy Light or abusers of the Holy Light as they keep an energy being trapped in the basement like a greasy nerd.

Paladins an spec to do a variety of things. Currently, they are best know for healing, but tanking is starting to get attention. Melee dps remains an underdog of sorts, with only the most dedicated players sticking with it despite the lack of support from other players.

The class is melee oriented with tough defenses. If you don't like being up close and personal, this is not the class for you.

Races
Four races can be Paladins:

Humans
Dwarves
Draenei*

Blood Elves*

*Requires the Burning Crusade Expansion

While you should pick the race with animations and voices you like, power players will find Dwarves and Draenei currently superior to Humans. Humans do have a nice faction racial (factions are big in Outland) along with a nice spirit bonus if you are a heal nut. Nonetheless, Draenei are sweet for PvE (hit bonus for melee party members) and Dwarf stoneform is a neat combat trick for PvE and PvP.

If you are Horde, Blood Elf is your only option. Mana Tap and Arcane Torrent are pretty nice racials, though.

Talents

Holy: Holy is by far are most popular talent tree among the WoW community as a whole. Currently, we are crazy healers with a focus in powerful single-target heals and long-lasting mana. It is not perfect, however, as we lack the HoTs and effective emergency heals to handle multiple people taking damage. Holy is at the top of its game right now, being heavily populated in PvE and PvP areas of the game. Many say that Holy has no where to go but down from here, so when speccing Holy, do not expect too many future improvements without giving up something in return.

Protection (aka Prot): This is our tanking tree, dedicated to increasing our threat generation as well as our damage mitigation. Once a paladin gears up, they are the top tank for doing very fast instance runs for normal difficulty five-mans. Not all is rosy, however, as mitigation is becoming an issue for us in raids. But the future looks bright as upcoming patches promis buffs in some form. Protection has also generated a lot of interest as a leveling spec.

Retribution (aka Ret): The black sheep of talent trees, only truly dedicated paladins with thick skin should tread here. The Ret tree is suffering from a lack of purpose: nobody wants it in PvP OR PvE areas, as Holy is much better and Ret doesn't bring much to the table. If you have understanding friends or guildmates and put effort into the spec, Ret can offer multiple buffs to a group while providing modest-to-good dps. In PvP, Ret excels as a 1v1 spec thanks to solid burst with added control elements. it doesn't do as well in group scenarios, but knowing when to attack and when to hold back and support teammates goes a long way towards success. The fate of Ret is unknown, as developers have been mum on future changes beyond a vague burst damage nerf (which could apply to any talent tree).

Resources
To be added soon...certain sites are down at the moment, but expect guides on healing, tanking, etc.

Leveling Specs
We get asked a lot about leveling specs, so here is one for each:

Holy
Protection
Retribution

These are just builds for soloing. You may group more or have different goals, but for leveling the option is to increase damage while reducing downtime.

PvE Specs

Holy
Protection
Retribution

These aren't perfect, but simply exist to give you an idea of specs solely focused on PvE.

PvP Specs

Holy
Protection
Retribution

SabreMau

Munkus Beaver wrote: »

Resources
To be added soon...certain sites are down at the moment, but expect guides on healing, tanking, etc.

I wonder which sites these are, though. "soon" was "soon" in mid-April as well.


The primary tanking paladin hangout: http://www.failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/index.php
What (I think) is the retribution corner: http://cromfel.battlefield.fi/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=1
Healing...dunno, anywhere else, I guess.

Little Jim

the healing corner is the one that I cry in when people ask me to raid

SabreMau

Oh, and the talent trees up there are kinda out of date, pre-2.1. The trees have since been shuffled around a bit. While I can't speak to Holy or Ret builds, the Prot section's been rebuilt to the point where there's no single "cookie-cutter" build anymore. You get to make choices as to what you want to leave out. Precision (and its +3% melee hit, +3% spell hit), Pursuit of Justice (3% spell resist, plus quickly steps), Reckoning (double your seal damage while its up), Improved Seal of the Crusader (+3% crit from all sources against the judged target).

My tanking build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGtIx0dMGqtVbx

Basically, two things which really AREN'T droppable from a solid prot build are Improved Holy Shield and Combat Experience, the latter of which gives you 2.5% more hits on mobs by eliminating 1.25% of their dodge and 1.25% of their parry, but also gives 10% more stamina. Everyone loves 10% more stamina. Even gerbils and hamsters at the pet store love 10% more stamina. It makes them feel mighty.

Fodder

I was trying to think of an appropriate Minsc/Boo joke, but failed

SabreMau

Sterica

I'll send Munkus a better OP to post. I was going to make a new one myself, but apparently this thread has been moving faster lately.

Four more badges and I can replace my fortress bracers. My armor is very high now, but I dislike my lower block value (290).

Helpless Rock

So, I got my paladin to 61 and am burning through the Hellfire quests as well as a Ramparts run. He's ret speced. I'm still totally unsure on how to gear him.

Should I be using the +spell damage plate that usually has str on it or just go straight str/agi plate? With the 2.3.2 changes to Crusader Strike the +Spell damage seems to be the less likely choice now, however it still benefits SoC. Now is just the time for me to chose which since quest rewards will be having both options.

Sterica

Helpless Rock wrote: »

So, I got my paladin to 61 and am burning through the Hellfire quests as well as a Ramparts run. He's ret speced. I'm still totally unsure on how to gear him.

Should I be using the +spell damage plate that usually has str on it or just go straight str/agi plate? With the 2.3.2 changes to Crusader Strike the +Spell damage seems to be the less likely choice now, however it still benefits SoC. Now is just the time for me to chose which since quest rewards will be having both options.

Blood Elf? Go for str/agi/ap. Though intellect will probably be nice so you don't go oom THAT fast (and judgement of blood still scales with spell damage).

Alliance? Grab traditional stuff. I don't think the change to CS will be enough to make you get rid of spell damage.

Helpless Rock

Rorus Raz wrote: »

Helpless Rock wrote: »

So, I got my paladin to 61 and am burning through the Hellfire quests as well as a Ramparts run. He's ret speced. I'm still totally unsure on how to gear him.

Should I be using the +spell damage plate that usually has str on it or just go straight str/agi plate? With the 2.3.2 changes to Crusader Strike the +Spell damage seems to be the less likely choice now, however it still benefits SoC. Now is just the time for me to chose which since quest rewards will be having both options.

Blood Elf? Go for str/agi/ap. Though intellect will probably be nice so you don't go oom THAT fast (and judgement of blood still scales with spell damage).

Alliance? Grab traditional stuff. I don't think the change to CS will be enough to make you get rid of spell damage.

I'm alliance human, forget to mention that.

Why the different needs for horde to alliance?

Here's my Armory profile, though as of this posting it hasn't updated with what I've done today quest wise as well as the fact I'm 61 now.
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarius&n=Liaka

Fodder

Seal of Blood is better than SoComm for ret pallys, but it's the horde pally only seal.

Thomamelas

SabreMau wrote: »

Oh, and the talent trees up there are kinda out of date, pre-2.1. The trees have since been shuffled around a bit. While I can't speak to Holy or Ret builds, the Prot section's been rebuilt to the point where there's no single "cookie-cutter" build anymore. You get to make choices as to what you want to leave out. Precision (and its +3% melee hit, +3% spell hit), Pursuit of Justice (3% spell resist, plus quickly steps), Reckoning (double your seal damage while its up), Improved Seal of the Crusader (+3% crit from all sources against the judged target).

My tanking build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGtIx0dMGqtVbx

Basically, two things which really AREN'T droppable from a solid prot build are Improved Holy Shield and Combat Experience, the latter of which gives you 2.5% more hits on mobs by eliminating 1.25% of their dodge and 1.25% of their parry, but also gives 10% more stamina. Everyone loves 10% more stamina. Even gerbils and hamsters at the pet store love 10% more stamina. It makes them feel mighty.

And remember that it's multiplicative rather then additive with everything else that does a percentage increase.

SabreMau

Thomamelas wrote: »

SabreMau wrote: »

Oh, and the talent trees up there are kinda out of date, pre-2.1. The trees have since been shuffled around a bit. While I can't speak to Holy or Ret builds, the Prot section's been rebuilt to the point where there's no single "cookie-cutter" build anymore. You get to make choices as to what you want to leave out. Precision (and its +3% melee hit, +3% spell hit), Pursuit of Justice (3% spell resist, plus quickly steps), Reckoning (double your seal damage while its up), Improved Seal of the Crusader (+3% crit from all sources against the judged target).

My tanking build: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=sZVGtIx0dMGqtVbx

Basically, two things which really AREN'T droppable from a solid prot build are Improved Holy Shield and Combat Experience, the latter of which gives you 2.5% more hits on mobs by eliminating 1.25% of their dodge and 1.25% of their parry, but also gives 10% more stamina. Everyone loves 10% more stamina. Even gerbils and hamsters at the pet store love 10% more stamina. It makes them feel mighty.

And remember that it's multiplicative rather then additive with everything else that does a percentage increase.

Also the 6% from Sacred Duty. And then you pile on Blessing of Kings for another 10%, and mobs start fleeing in panic as you walk by.

Wren

in regards to the ret pve build, is crusade really worth those 3 points? I mean 3% isn't bad but its also 3 points. also I know I'd much rather spiritual focus over anything in the prot tree.

not that I'm likely to touch my paladin ever again

Mgcw

If you're Ret and all you care about is PvE, you don't need Spiritual Focus.

SabreMau

If you're ret and care about PvE, picking up Precision out of the prot tree is probably going to be worthwhile.

Szechuanosaurus

So is this Paladin game a free-to-play korean MMO type deal or a subscription thing?

Echo

Szechuanosaurus wrote: »

So is this Paladin game a free-to-play korean MMO type deal or a subscription thing?

The graphics look kinda dated.

tehmarken

SabreMau wrote: »

If you're ret and care about PvE, picking up Precision out of the prot tree is probably going to be more vital than life itself.

Fixed your typo for you.

SabreMau

Haven't mastered the nuances of ret yet, still at level 30.


Come to think of it, I'm considering foregoing the prot AoE grinding phase and seeing if practicing ret all the way to 70 would be more educational. I already know prot grinding, and leveling's gotten easier post-2.3 anyways.

Little Jim

leveling ret isn't terribly hard, you can do it with a lot of drinking (judging as often as you can) or only a little bit of drinking (only judging once)

it doesn't get really involved until you get vengance/CS and you actually have to make decisions in combat

but I mean this is your 19th fucking paladin

so you probably have a pretty good idea anyway

SabreMau

Eh, I leveled Tresjin (both of them) as ret to 60, Tresjynn 36-70 prot, but 60-70 I've only gone prot. I just don't know if I want to do prot grinding until an arbitrary point and then suddenly switch back to retribution mode and start re-learning and re-gearing up there.

Sterica

If you stock up on the new heroic dps plate, you can probably drop Precision entirely.

Interesting hint from Blizzard: they want paladins to desire the heroic plate without CHANGING the stats on it. The full dps plate from heroics and ZA has way too much hit for a two-hander, so this means:

A) ZOMG PALADIN DOOL WIELD.
+hit will do something special

My guess is +hit will increase Seal of Comannd's proc rate, as it's easy and follows their tradition of keeping faction spells shitty until the next expansion.

reVerse

Either that or someone at Blizzard forgot that they need to design some plate for retadins and they're just trying to save face by claiming that the plate they did design is great for retadins.

Arkady

SabreMau wrote: »

Eh, I leveled Tresjin (both of them) as ret to 60, Tresjynn 36-70 prot, but 60-70 I've only gone prot. I just don't know if I want to do prot grinding until an arbitrary point and then suddenly switch back to retribution mode and start re-learning and re-gearing up there.

I'd do it until I could get crusader strike, if I were you.

Saban

I need S3 Leggings, S3 Ring, S3 Belt, Spellhaste cloak from ZA, Spellhaste gloves from badges, and Mace/shield from Arena to round off my pvp healing set.

Afty

Cross posting here as my jubilation was rudely glossed over in the Hope, Hate & Happy thread!

My Paladin now has a Dazzling Longsword and The Green Tower waiting for the prot respec at 36.

Now my real reason for posting is, Should i get life stealing on the sword or would something like crusade/firey be better at this level and roughly how much should i be willing to spend on a mithril or thorium spike?

SabreMau

Chance for Lifesteal proc is approximately weapon speed * 7.87. Crusader proc is weapon speed * 1.82. So Lifesteal will proc 4.32 times as often as Crusader. Lifesteal will then heal for, on average, 130 health in the same amount of swings it takes Crusader to heal 75-125. So go with Lifesteal. And Thorium spike shouldn't be all that expensive. Felsteel is overly so, for leveling, but you could get it done on a decent budget (which you probably have, buying BoE epics and an enchant anyway).

Afty

Brilliant, thanks. Not seen that site before, its pretty interesting reading.

I do have a modest budget as i am switching my main to pally, and leaving behind a 66 hunter. So i can use him to farm when i need the g.

Mgcw

You did not seriously name your paladin "Pestilance"

Afty

Evidently I did.

I'm sure there are worse names out there.

SabinXL

Afty wrote: »

Evidently I did.

I'm sure there are worse names out there.

This is worthy of our other thread, though. Was Pestilence taken, or were you too overcome with the coolness of your naming idea to make sure the spelling was correct? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, and I'll apologize now if it comes off like that, but I'm simply curious. It's not often I get to pick the brains of people who name characters like this.

Afty

Heh, it was a poor spelling error on my part. Pestilence is still available on my server, that means starting over though and as my play time isn't particularly massive, i am reluctant to.

It was pestilence(with bad spelling) or OMGLOLPALLY so i think i made the right choice (even with bad spelling).

edit* i could've just said it was an in joke with some friends and avoided allll of this embarrassment ;p

double edit* Pestilence is in fact not free on my server so even if i wanted to go back, there is no way.

SabreMau

Well, today's daily heroic was Heroic Steamvaults. And, since I want the 25g plus the half of that one Trials of the Naaru quest completed, I jump in a group that's "LF1M Healer". Turns out there's another tankadin in that run, which was interesting. Couple of deaths due to me being unused to healing, though. Didn't preheal early enough, was a bit too far out of range at one point, etc. It wasn't until just after the second boss that they inspected me and noticed I was still 0/49/12 Prot with nothing in Holy. ;-)

Echo

Took me a few minutes to get used to healing in heroics. No more spamming FoL, I actually have to use a fair amount of Holy Light now. I typically do a rank 1 HL every now and then to keep Light's Grace up and then spam from there.

It was fun fighting Broggok. I started that fight with 800 mana after healing through those prisoners.

<3

Figurine of the Colossus needs to fucking drop.

I fucking hate it so much when the things you want will never ever drop. But when you are a different spec and don't want it, it will fucking drop.

narv107

I ran ShHalls about 12 times with my healer cause he wanted some drop. The second run the Figurine of the Colossus drops and for about 6 or 7 runs I wondered why the boss was only dropping one blue. Turns out the Figurine just kept dropping and dropping. And not the item my healer wanted.

However, karma would find that no matter how often I kill Laj or Nethermancer Septhera I will never see the Spaulders of the Righteous or the Jade Skull Breastplate.

<3

I also need those.

Thomase1984

spaulders are a mytthhhh...

If they dropped i could finally get rid of my gladiator shoulders =/

Grundlestiltskin

So I'm thinking about coming back and levelling my paladin a bit, who I stopped at 40 about 3 months ago when I quit. I have 4 70s and a reasonable (not a lot) of gold, so I could probably twink him a little bit if need be. Post 2.3, what'd be the best way to level quickly? Prot grinding, or ret+quests?

Septus

Prot, I hear.

I'm actually lvl 39 on my prot pally, and have not been terribly impressed with his aoe tanking ability. I wonder just how much of a difference holy shield will make, because right now, if I happen to fight even +2s, 2 at a time(maybe 3) I lose far too much health and am basically forced to burn a shield to keep healed up. Then I end the battle with very low mana.