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GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
edited August 2017 in MMO Extravaganza
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    DogDog Registered User, Administrator, Vanilla Staff admin
    edited November 2007
    If its a guildmate or a friend, I'll give them the mights.

    If its someone I don't know, they can either pay me for them, or I keep them for myself.


    I rarely do business with people I don't know though.

    Unknown User on
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    jotatejotate Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    You spelled "intellectual" wrong. Which is pretty ironically hilarious.

    That said, give him one extra if you're feeling jolly. Giving him only the one he expected isn't unreasonable though, by any means, unless he specified that provision before handing you the mats.

    jotate on
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    CharusCharus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    This probably belongs in the professions thread, but I'll give my take.

    This is mostly an Alchemist's problem. Tailors kind of have it too, but most people interested in buying a tailor's transmute cooldown specify beforehand they're looking for a particular spec. As for what you can do, you can either bump up what you charge to transmute because you are Transmute specced, or you can trade Mights for mats and transmute the mats on your own time.

    Personally, my alchemist does neither. I use every transmute cooldown on myself. I buy Primal Earths by the stack just to have on hand. For two days, I transmute Earth to Water, then the third day, I round up some cheap green gems and transmute an Earthstorm Diamond. This is mostly because my Jewelcrafter main can cut them and sell them at a further markup, but even uncut Earthstorms go for more than 2 earths, 2 waters, and 9 uncut green gems, and I gain tons of cash if I happen to proc the Earthstorm transmute.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Simple solution; if people are looking for mights, have one on hand. They give you the materials, you hand them the might, and wander off to transmute it at your leisure.

    If they want the transmute done then and there (and who is to say your cooldown isn't up yet, and you just happen to have some extra mights on hand?), they can either take their business elsewhere, or work out a 'what happens to potential extras' setup.

    Some people give the extras over for free, some charge half price, some full price, etc.

    Same with cloth transmutes. If primal mooncloth is selling for 30 gold apiece, and the transmute for one is going for 5, why would I give someone 2 mooncloth for the price of one? Now, if they're willing to tip 20-30 gold (still far cheaper than paying for 2 x materials for 2 x cloth), I'll usually hook them up.

    Speaking of which, I might just have to start advertising that in trade chat, as I have 4 spec'd tailors with cooldowns that have gone unused for a while now.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Personally I'd just keep the extras. He gave you mats for one Primal Might and that's what he gets.

    reVerse on
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
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    KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Depended on the context

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
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    a penguina penguin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Forar wrote: »
    Simple solution; if people are looking for mights, have one on hand. They give you the materials, you hand them the might, and wander off to transmute it at your leisure.


    This.

    This is how I always handled transmutes, even back in the "Arcanite bar olol" days.

    a penguin on
    This space eventually to be filled with excitement
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    delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Standard Alchemist ettiquete, as far as I and my friends believe it to be, is that the bonus Primal Mights belong to the Alchemist. I mean, you DID blow four of them just to get the specialization, so why the hell would you owe anyone any extra Primal Mights? If they give you the mats for one, they get one. Period. If they have a problem with that, tell them to cry a river.

    Edit: Or leave the group before you do the transmute. If you're not in the group, they don't get to see how many Primal Mights you made.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    reVerse wrote: »
    Personally I'd just keep the extras. He gave you mats for one Primal Might and that's what he gets.

    This.

    Mgcw on
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    XArchangelXXArchangelX Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    In the specific case you describe, the extra primal mights are yours. When I played, it was common practice for Alchemists to offer the Primal Might transmute for free, specifically for this purpose. One guy I knew got the majority of all the Primals he ever needed in this fashion, as grinding for those things is a bitch and half. If the dumb fucker wants the bonus primal mights, he can either specifically state that beforehand, in which case you charge per extra primal, or he can train up alchemy and then the mastery himself.

    The deal was he gives you the ingredients to make one primal might, you made the primal might and gave it to him. The bonus primal mights are a result of leveling decisions specific to your character, and had you chosen Potion Mastery, his greed and stupidity would have remained hidden that much longer.

    XArchangelX on
    Eve Online is a terrible game, but I used to play, for the lulz!
    Steam
    Only the strong can help the weak.
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    BeckBeck Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Mgcw wrote: »
    reVerse wrote: »
    Personally I'd just keep the extras. He gave you mats for one Primal Might and that's what he gets.

    This.

    Yes.

    Transmute spec procs so rarely.

    Beck on
    Lucas's Franklin Badge reflected the lightning back!
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    rizriz Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    These questions are always sort of alien to me as anything I need made which might produce "procs" is being made by a guildmate, and they just hand over the extras. >.>

    riz on
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    CharusCharus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Charus wrote: »
    I use every transmute cooldown on myself. I buy Primal Earths by the stack just to have on hand. For two days, I transmute Earth to Water, then the third day, I round up some cheap green gems and transmute an Earthstorm Diamond.

    Hmm, I'd never thought of doing this. Earths are particularly cheap... would you say this is more profitable than transmuting Mights? I may have to do that instead.

    I'd say that earth to water, mana to fire (if you have it), and earthstorm diamond are the only truly worthwhile transmutes. The AH price of Primal Might is rarely more than just a few gold above the cost of its component Primals, while Primal Water is 10-15g more than the price of Primal Earth, and Earthstorm diamonds are easily worth more than their component pieces before factoring in gem cuts. Every step of the way, you're adding value, and procs just sweeten the deal. If my alchemist were Potion or Elixir specced, Earth to Water would be the only transmute I would ever do unless I were saving Mights for an item I wanted to craft.

    Charus on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    wrong_buttonwrong_button Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Forar wrote: »
    Simple solution; if people are looking for mights, have one on hand. They give you the materials, you hand them the might, and wander off to transmute it at your leisure.

    Smartest thing you can do, right up there.

    Before I hopped on the Epics For Dummies (aka Tailoring) train, I usually made it clear up front who got any extra procs. If I had planned on blowing my cooldown on myself, I'd make sure they knew I'm keeping the extras, or if I wasn't planning on using it immediately (or doing it for someone I knew) I'd usually let them know they could have whatever popped out. Never had any complaints when people knew the deal up front.

    wrong_button on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Charus wrote: »
    I use every transmute cooldown on myself. I buy Primal Earths by the stack just to have on hand. For two days, I transmute Earth to Water, then the third day, I round up some cheap green gems and transmute an Earthstorm Diamond.

    Hmm, I'd never thought of doing this. Earths are particularly cheap... would you say this is more profitable than transmuting Mights? I may have to do that instead.

    I don't know about your server, but on my server, if you add up the price of a Primal Earth, Fire, Wind (sorry, Air), Water, and Heart (sorry, Mana), it's often a break even or a loss to make it into a might and then trying to sell it. Sure, getting a proc off it is wonderous, but farming up or buying 5 primals a day just isn't worth it, in my opinion. I know in the past year I've proc'd enough extra mights to have better than broken even on the 4 I had to spend to get the spec, but it's not a LOT more. Even accounting for regular primal transmutes (FAR more lucrative; why turn 100 gold of materials into a 95 gold Might, when you can turn a 4 gold Primal (Earth) into a 20-25 gold primal (Water)?), I find Transmute spec to be a somewhat frustrating way of spec'ing; it's the only one where you're guaranteed to use it once per day (assuming you can be bothered to at least buy an Earth and make it into a Water), but there is generally no reason whatsoever to ever make anything else. Want potions? Go to a Potion mater. Want flasks/elixirs? Go to an Elixir master.

    Sure, you don't LOSE the ability to make potions or elixirs, but assuming you have a friend or guild mate that's either spec (I assume most people do), it's like saying "I don't like free things", and because of the "once a day" approach, your chances of proc'ing extras and making discoveries is significantly lower than the other two.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    I farm mats and transmute Mights, and when I can't I do Earth->Water. I've been Transmute specced for 25 days-- never missing a transmute-- and have gotten two procs.

    Days 1 and 2, Primal Mightx2. Ever since then? No procs. 25 days later, I've yet to recoup the cost of specializing. So. Fuck you if you think I'm giving you anything beyond what you gave me mats for. :|

    EDIT: Also, I have a character on Earthen Ring and I can say that the market there is screwed up, like all of the birth servers. On most, Primal Mights remain 15-20g above the price of component primals. On Dark Iron, Mana and Water have both sunk to around 14g, Air is steady at 24g, Fire at 24g, and Earth is 3g. That's 79g mats for Mights that I've been selling for 100g, and I usually farm the stuff myself anyway because I get bored.

    Oboro on
    words
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    I suspect that "there are fewer procs" is just the new "Onyxia uses deep breath" more. The RNG at work.

    I've been Transmute spec'd since around February (or whenever I got my warlock up to 68), and having done a transmute a day (be it earth to water, making a might, or something else) for a good 8 or 9 months now, I'd say that extras proc'd are far rarer than they should be. While I recognize that an increase in proc rates would lower the value of said primals, I wouldn't mind seeing a lowering (or utter removal) of the chance to get x5's or x4's if they dramatically increased the chances of x2's or even x3's. Something to make it feel worthwhile.

    As it stands, I pretty much just accept that I'm going to transmute 1 earth into 1 water, or 1 water to 1 air, or 1 air to 1 fire, and a proc is a happy coincidence, but at the end of the day, I don't need to be transmute spec'd in order to turn 1 earth into 1 water, etc, etc, etc.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    a penguina penguin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Here's a "moer deep breaths olol" for ya:

    Since the patch two guys I know have made something like 7 alchemy discoveries. Flasks, transmutes...it's craziness.

    It may be worth mentioning that one of these guys is the one who got Midnight a couple of weeks ago, so he's just a lucky bastard all around.

    a penguin on
    This space eventually to be filled with excitement
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    a penguin wrote: »
    Here's a "moer deep breaths olol" for ya:

    Since the patch two guys I know have made something like 7 alchemy discoveries. Flasks, transmutes...it's craziness.

    It may be worth mentioning that one of these guys is the one who got Midnight a couple of weeks ago, so he's just a lucky bastard all around.

    I will say that since the patch, I've gotten like 2 or 3 discoveries as well, being Transmute spec'd and doing just transmutes. It's probably pure coincidence, but it'd be a nice touch to give transmuters a slightly higher chance of discoveries per use, given how rarely they actually get to use that ability, and the propensity for the RNG to fuck us over even harder than potion/elixir masters.

    Of note; pre-patch, I hadn't found ANY discoveries, not a single one, so a pair or more in the past week is like the second coming of christ in comparison)

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    a penguina penguin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    This is a sign.

    A sign that we should both delete out posts, and never speak of this again.

    a penguin on
    This space eventually to be filled with excitement
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    I got one discovery pre-2.3 and one after. Neither was a transmute discovery, but I don't really care about transmute discoveries anyway. Although, Mana to Fire would be nice. But it won't happen. :P

    I want Flask of Relentless Assault! rawr!

    Oboro on
    words
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
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    ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited November 2007
    One of the few nice touches for the transmute discoveries is that they're 'orange', so you can get what will be essentially a free skillup or two when the profession cap is raised. Yeah, it's not a big deal, but it's something.

    I think I've gotten Mana to Fire, Water to Shadow (or something like that), and maybe one other, but I'd have to look at the list in game to be sure.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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    WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Um, tell that guy he can fuck right the hell off. I would totally laugh in his face.

    If he was a guildie, he shouldn't have even had the chance to ask, as they should have been given immediately.

    Wavechaser on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    My druid is elixir specced and I used to see "LG Transmute specced alchemist" all the time in Shattrath. I kept hoping I'd see a request for a flask specced alch, so I could contact them, and see what ridiculous reasoning they would have for me to give them the procs. And then go through with it, hope for procs, and not give them squat.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Um, tell that guy he can fuck right the hell off. I would totally laugh in his face.

    If he was a guildie, he shouldn't have even had the chance to ask, as they should have been given immediately.
    If it's a two-fer proc I can see this being reasonable, but in the unlikely event that it's a 3x or more and we're talking transmute specifically I would keep at least one. I love my guildmates to death, but typically I am doing Might transmutes for folks who are putting together 6-8 of them for some supplemental epic piece before riding off on their epic mount. There are some guildmates who I would gladly give as many Mights as they needed if it procced, but especially if they only needed one or two I wouldn't give them extras. That, or if I decided to be human and look out for myself in the equation as well.

    Oboro on
    words
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    GPIA7RGPIA7R Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    .

    GPIA7R on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Um, tell that guy he can fuck right the hell off. I would totally laugh in his face.

    If he was a guildie, he shouldn't have even had the chance to ask, as they should have been given immediately.

    I don't really understand being compelled to give guildies your proc results. You're creating the pots for free already, why give them the benefit of your spec? Blacksmiths and Leatherworkers etc are already getting nifty little self-only benefits from their spec, I'd like to get a benefit from my spec as well. The guildie is not shafted.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Septus wrote: »
    Wavechaser wrote: »
    Um, tell that guy he can fuck right the hell off. I would totally laugh in his face.

    If he was a guildie, he shouldn't have even had the chance to ask, as they should have been given immediately.

    I don't really understand being compelled to give guildies your proc results. You're creating the pots for free already, why give them the benefit of your spec?

    Because they're supposed to be your friends? and if not, why are you guilded with them?

    Also, tailors and blacksmiths get the benefit of that spec by themselves, they get all the materials. Someone is giving you the crap to make the potions you get even possible, if you don't like that aspect of Alchemy and are that selfish, you should pick up another profession instead.

    Mgcw on
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    I don't understand how friend -> give all of my alchemy procs. Sorry, the two don't necessarily follow one another. That's not set in stone, it's a retarded precedent that's a poor standard to set because it makes people who legitimately want to keep the profits they made seem like the bad guy. I get to transmute once every day. If I transmute Might, and I give you my transmute, I have just thrown away my specialization-- which I spent 4x Might to earn-- for one day. I have thrown away, at minimum, 20g (per my server prices).

    You still owe me. You are not entitled to my procs unless I decide you are. :|

    Oboro on
    words
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    RyokazeRyokaze Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    GPIA7R wrote: »
    Now that you mention it, I've noticed quite a few going on as well. I rarely make potions unless I just happen to find a Terocone inside of Botanica... because I'm too lazy to farm them (Feral Druid Tank, I <3 Defense Potions)... so in turn, I rarely make discoveries. But I have seen them around me quite often.

    Buh? Turn them into major agility pots.

    Ryokaze on
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    WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Okay, it depends on the situation. Obviously, on a 5x proc when the guildie only needs one or two, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to keep 1 or 2 of the procs. I still wouldn't expect or demand it though.

    Wavechaser on
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    MgcwMgcw Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Oboro wrote: »
    I don't understand how friend -> give all of my alchemy procs. Sorry, the two don't necessarily follow one another. That's not set in stone, it's a retarded precedent that's a poor standard to set because it makes people who legitimately want to keep the profits they made seem like the bad guy. I get to transmute once every day. If I transmute Might, and I give you my transmute, I have just thrown away my specialization-- which I spent 4x Might to earn-- for one day. I have thrown away, at minimum, 20g (per my server prices).

    You still owe me. You are not entitled to my procs unless I decide you are. :|

    Then use your spec for yourself, if you transmute for a friend, that is what you give up. Also, this does not apply at all to pot or elixir spec, since they have no cooldown.

    Mgcw on
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    exisexis Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Oboro wrote: »
    I don't understand how friend -> give all of my alchemy procs. Sorry, the two don't necessarily follow one another. That's not set in stone, it's a retarded precedent that's a poor standard to set because it makes people who legitimately want to keep the profits they made seem like the bad guy. I get to transmute once every day. If I transmute Might, and I give you my transmute, I have just thrown away my specialization-- which I spent 4x Might to earn-- for one day. I have thrown away, at minimum, 20g (per my server prices).

    You still owe me. You are not entitled to my procs unless I decide you are. :|

    Eh, I disagree with that. I don't tell guildies that ask for me to make them Primal Mooncloth "sure but I'm keeping the second, that's my cooldown you're using". If I want to use my cooldown, I will. If I don't, it's going to waste, I might aswell give it to someone I don't hate.

    exis on
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    SeptusSeptus Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    Not charging guildies for crafting makes sense. You're opting not to levy a cost on them, that is levied on everyone else. I don't think it follows that for alchemy specializations, that you should opt into giving the guildie an extra benefit, that regular customers in the market do not get.

    Septus on
    PSN: Kurahoshi1
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    OboroOboro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited November 2007
    I need gems, enchants, to level a profession, to pay for repairs, to continue funding my raid consumables, and to hopefully store some money away for my mount. I am entitled to being allowed to use my profession for a profit. I took Transmute specialization in order to make a profit. I am not obligated to give you procs, but you are of course free to ask. If it'll save you trouble and let you get your item a day sooner, fine. But I always have mats on hand for my own transmutes, so when I don't use it for myself I am providing a service. I provide that service free of charge, and I usually travel to the person too, and I refuse tips. If I ever do get a proc, I'll weigh out whether or not to give it to them-- but they are by no means entitled to it because they just happened to be there.

    Oboro on
    words
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    a penguina penguin Registered User regular
    edited November 2007
    karma is a powerful thing, my friend.

    All of my in-game friends and guildies benefit from whatever I have to offer. This comes around, like when one just handed me the Battlemaster Enchant.

    a penguin on
    This space eventually to be filled with excitement
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