Fired vs laid off worries

Blender

So I can't tell if I got fired or laid off-

here is my dilemma- my job was terminated (my word choice) after 6 months or so of good work. I was a computer technician and I consistently earned more than the other two techs.

I had no warning, verbal or otherwise. It came as a complete surprise. I was not allowed any time to finish up work or let the other techs know the status of any work. I asked repeatedly "why am I being fired" multiple times, verbally at the time, then phone calls, then emails.

I was told I'd get my final check and a letter of recommendation. I did, and it said the "decision to let [me] go was difficult and the direct result of an initiative to lower expenses at [the place where I worked] during this slow economic quarter"

seems like bs to me, but at least I have a reason in writing, signed, so that I can make a realistic job search. It has been a month, and I still can't find a job, so I decide to file for unemployent. I tell the operator I was fired and she has me read the letter, and tells me that "no, no -you were laid off"

ok, I say. so I got one check so far, and a letter saying I need to be part of a fact finding interview for why I left the store. I called, and they claimed I was fired. wtf? nobody is even talking to me, and I am afraid they will make up some reason they fired me, and I will be ineligible for any compensation.

I am an honest man [eagle scout] I am looking for work, I thought I did the right thing. I have a family, and I will have to rely on this $$$ until I find a job, my savings are dry.

can anyone shed some light on my situation? please help, I am REALLY stressed out.

GPIA7R

If you had zero warning or verbal... I'd say that they "phased out your position" when it comes to applying for your next job.

Invisible

From what I understand, laid off is essentially terminated without cause while being fired is being terminated with cause. From what you posted, you were laid off because of restructuring. In fact, because you were able to collect unemployment probably means you were laid off and not fired.

The variation on why you were let go may be based upon who you're speaking to. Do you not have an HR rep or anyone hire up in the corporate latter you can call to get a better idea of your status?

Blender

I received unemployment (I think) based upon my letter, which says "lower expenses..."
that is the only reason at all I got, I asked the owner, both workers, and the senior manager. there was no reply- even today when I called.

there is no hr rep, or anyone that has this function. there is no structure.

the fact finding interview is about this termination (my word), and its effect on if and any unemployment

when I called the dept of labor (DOL), they said that there was a dispute, and that they claimed I was fired.

are they responsible for any payment due to my unemployment? it just seems weird and malicious that they would change their story when I start my request for benefits. god I sound like such a loser, I swear I don't want to abuse the system, but I have had jobs and paid taxes for like 10 years, this is my first unemployed situation

I have to fax this letter in to the arbitrator who is then supposed to figure out the truth.

If she ends up siding with the computer store, I might have to pay back some or all of the benefits recieved. I won't have the $$$, I have rent, bills...

ug

thanks for the responses, i really appreciate your opinions

DrFrylock

You were laid off. You have a letter that says so. They can't retroactively take this letter away from you. You have a letter of recommendation that you can take with you, which I assume is positive in tone. What precisely are you worried they're going to do?

I'm not sure you were required to participate in the "fact finding interview." Unless you signed an employment contract or agreement of some sort, your obligations to them likely ended when you were let go. That's neither here nor there. What did they ask you? They already knew why you were let go, what else did they want?

Blender

hi frylock- I am worried they will say - "oh we fired him, but didn't tell him, we just wrote him a nice letter of recommendation. " and the DOL will say "ok, we'll take back the $$$ we gave him"

and I DEF have to do the fact finding interview, it a letter from the government concerning the only source of $$$ I have going. there was no contract ever. maybe they thought I'd go all jerry maguire on them?

I dunno...

Lord Yod

DrFrylock wrote: »

You were laid off. You have a letter that says so. They can't retroactively take this letter away from you.

This. Initiative to lower expenses = laying people off.

The reason the company will later claim that they fired you/you quit is because they pay for the unemployment benefits. (From what I understand, this is what a previous employer told me)

The fact finding interview is most likely the DOL's attempt to determine what actually occurred. Just show up with that letter, I would also print out copies of the emails you sent to the company to show them as well.

DrFrylock

Blender wrote:

ok, I say. so I got one check so far, and a letter saying I need to be part of a fact finding interview for why I left the store. I called, and they claimed I was fired. wtf? nobody is even talking to me, and I am afraid they will make up some reason they fired me, and I will be ineligible for any compensation.

I'm sorry, this is confusing and I misinterpreted it. Too many "theys." I assumed your former employer demanded a 'fact finding interview' as some kind of exit interview.

So the government unemployment office sent you an unemployment check and instructed you that you needed to participate in a fact-finding interview. When you called - wait, I'm double confused, whom did you call? Did you call the unemployment office or your former employer? Has this fact-finding interview occurred yet? Which "they" claimed you were fired - your employer or the unemployment office? If it was the unemployment office, then why do they believe this given that the written evidence indicates otherwise? Did they contact your former employer directly? Did they believe you when you erroneously told them you had been fired the first time? Did you say something in the interview that made them believe you were fired? Is it a clerical error?

You also state "I am afraid they will make up some reason they fired me." Which 'they' is it this time? Your former employer? The unemployment office?

Zeon

The letter says you were laid off.

If it said "This guy was a fuckup and slept on the job, and stole from us", you would consider that as being fired. But being let go for cost reasons, thats laying off.

They owe you unemployment. Dont worry about it. They cant now say "Oh, we wanted to be nice and say he was laid off, but we really fired him". Thats illegal because it leads to shit like this.

Dont worry about it.

But find another job soon so you can get past this shit.

Blender

so my letter will probably stand in the eyes of the DOL? and yes, I will print and fax the emails- oh the "interview" is via phone, I just have to pick up when they call, in 2 weeks.

them paying the benefits sounds like a solid reason for them changing their mind- well, I really am starting to feel better,

can anyone see any flaws in my simple plan to present the letter? whats the catch? what would Murphy (not capt.) say? Actually, what WOULD capt. Murphy say?

thanks for the support oh great Lord Yod, I really really appreciate the rational minds here

MichaelLC

Don't call [your past job] anymore unless directed to do so by the DoE.

Aside from sounding...un-profeessional, it creates a very awkward and uncomfortable situation for anyone you talk to. As a manager, I can get in shits of trouble even saying 'hello' to people we laid off if I'm at work. Ok, not that bad, but pretty close. Example: a company calls me asking me about John, who we let go due to down-sizing. They ask me if he was a good worker. If I say "yes, he was fantastic" I'm opening my company up for lawyer trouble because why did we fire someone who was "fantastic"? Obviously because he was blue/green or preferred beige people over red people, etc, etc.


HR should provide any information you need about benefits/unemployment and/or severance pay.

I would say you were laid off due to budgeting/resource restructuring at the company. The DoE should be able to find that out if the managers at the company are honest.

Blender

thanks zeon- you made me laugh at this whole situation, it seems ridiculous but I have to take it serious.

an I am on the pulse for jobs- hot tip -RSS feeds from 4 different local sites all going to a dedicated email account, then txt'd to phone, so I dont miss out. I don't think it will last long - never has been this long before.

sigh

well in my ample free time if any PA-ers want to PM me about computer problems, I'd be happy to offer advice and possible solutions for free

I'll respond like its a job to answer seekers that post as well

Blender

hope this helps, sorry to be so confusing. I will call the computer place PC from now on. So the government unemployment office sent you an unemployment check and instructed you that you needed to participate in a fact-finding interview. When you called - wait, I'm double confused, whom did you call?

the DOL

Did you call the unemployment office or your former employer?
both, the DOL first, then left message at computer place
Has this fact-finding interview occurred yet?
no
Which "they" claimed you were fired - your employer oPC
PC
If it was the unemployment office, then why do they believe this given that the written evidence indicates otherwise?
i guess they said it verbally or on paper- honestly dont know
Did they contact your former employer directly?
not sure if they did yet, they said they would though
Did they believe you when you erroneously told them you had been fired the first time?
no, the DOL said I got laid off after i read letter
Did you say something in the interview that made them believe you were fired? Is it a clerical error?
no interview yet. i thought i was fired cuz it was so sudden
You also state "I am afraid they will make up some reason they fired me."

Lord Yod

Yeah you should be fine, you have a letter showing that you were laid off.

Now one last bit of advice is to keep a record of every job you apply for. I would also somehow get some evidence of that RSS feed setup. Unemployment likes to see that you're actively looking for a job, and those things will definitely show that. (A buddy of mine had to show that he had applied to something like 10 jobs per week in order to get benefits; it obviously may be different in your area but it certainly wouldn't hurt)

Blender

thanks Lord yod- yeah, I am keeping track of all emails, phone calls, callbacks, interviews, etc...

but I'll let them know about the feed setup, it makes things easier.

I hardly slept last night over this, but I think ill be fine tonight

Seattle Thread

As far as I know, unemployment insurance (UI) works differently from state-to-state, so this could be inaccurate. Your state's government website will have more accurate information, for sure.

But here in Washington, the former employer picks up the cost. Not only that, but one does not qualify for UI if the reason for termination was their fault--basically, if you got fired for fucking up, you'd be up shit creek. "Laid off," as Invisible said, means that the termination is not at the fault of the individual. Companies can relocate, go bankrupt, "restructure" and all other kinds of buzzwords, but if they lose any employees because of it, each one could potentially file for UI.

But back to the matter at hand. Once you file you UI claim, the state then takes it back to the employer to verify. If you claim you were laid off, but the employer claims you were fired, then it has to be mitigated by a judge (and usually over the phone, just like this interview you're having). And, unfortunately, there are a lot of shitheads who will lie in order to get out of paying their former employee's UI. These guys get away with it, too, as usually it's their word vs. the "unemployed deadbeat."

In your situation, though, you have leverage. For one, they never gave you an exit interview--this is the term for "telling you why you were fired," and an exit interview can be anything from a quick chat to a full-on meeting--of any kind. For two, you have that letter, and the wording of it screams "laid off." If that letter is written on company stationery, then your former employer is pretty fucked.

So don't sweat it. I know the experience can be a little scary, especially when you consider your dependency on that source of income, but thousands of people made it through before you. And even if your claim is deemed to be invalid and you are required to return the money, their monthly installment plan is quite generous (again, in Washington state). But just stick to the facts--their conduct when you were laid off, and the letter that you received after the fact.

Blender

thanks dongpuller. you are right- my exit interview consisted of, actual quote -"we're not going to go into that", over and over, like a mantra. and my lertter? I have the real-ink signed, with a big middle paragraph telling my next employer how great I was. maybe this is all a mistake, I got them all wrong, but I have gotten nothing but the cold shoulder.

thanks for the good words people