Is an English Degree useless?

Chop Logic

I'm a senior in high school. I'm planning on dual majoring in English and Art once I get to college in the fall.

The thing is, those are two pretty "impractical" degrees, I think. I really love both of those subjects, I would really hate neglecting one (thats why I'm dual majoring), its just that I keep hearing how useless both of those degrees are, and it's making me a little worried.

I guess I'm just looking for some feedback on what I should do, maybe from someone with a little experience. The only thing I could think about switching to that I might be interested in was journalism, but I could easily see myself hating that, or getting sick of it quickly, though it does seem more practical. I could also see myself teaching, but I'm not sure how that works, with having the neccesary degrees and everything. I don't want to major in education because then I'd have to neglect either English or Art, but I could see myself going back for my masters in education. How exactly does all that work? I'm not even sure.

So yeah, I'm just looking for some feedback I guess. I know we have all different types of majors here, so it'd be nice to hear back from some people.

Thanks.

saggio

English can be more useful than Business.

What do you want to do with your degrees? I think you will find quite quickly that your pre-conceived notions of what you want to study at Uni go out the window after the first couple of semesters. It did for everyone I know, me included. You should probably just stay flexible, and try a bunch of intro courses in a variety of things that you might not otherwise try. I don't know where you are going to school, but at least in most of North America, you don't have to declare until your second or third year.

Orikaeshigitae

I'm an English/Art double major, and what I recommend is to not depend solely on your degree. I'm getting a graphic design job next week because I taught myself Photoshop (among other things). Focus on transferable skills, because it's unlikely that you'll get to have a career with pension and guaranteed benefits.

imperial6

I think a lot depends on your financial situation. I say that because if you are going to graduate in 4 years with a ton of debt from student loans, getting a more practical degree should be a higher priority. But really the best thing to do is seriously think about and research potential careers now and throughout college, and figure out what you need to do on the academic side to get what you want. In the meantime, take classes that interest you...most places don't force you to declare right away, and the first year you should be taking a lot of gen-ed stuff anyway.

Blake T

Lets be honest here though if you are going into buisnes a double degree in english and buisnes (See it shows I didn't do english because I'm fairly sure I'm spelling buisnes incorrectly) would be far more practical.

I would recomend looking at what you want to do at the end and basing your degree around that.

I hear all these people that get useless degrees and then go on about how they had a better experience than I did because I spent half my time studying. If I wanted a better life experience I would spend four years backpacking round the work doing part time work to pay my way. As that way I would have an awesome life experience and no goddam debt to pay off.

If you want to use your degree at the end of it I recomend you doing it.

Hewn

Well, I graduated with an English degree and am currently working as a secondary education teacher. So, maybe I can provide a few answers.

In regards to an education degree:
Most education programs work in conjunction with your major. For example, I took about 40 credits in English and about 30 in education. It's a fairly event split, with some of the education credits being specifically geared for English teachers. So if you're worried about neglecting your English studies, that's not going to happen. You'll be essentially required to get a full English major WITH education courses that supplement it.

While I left with the proper qualifications to teach, my degree is actually labeled at English. This varies from university to university, and state to state. What state are you in, anyway?

In regards to a masters in education:
This is a valid route, in fact two of my co-workers did this. However, it's not required by any means. There are some advantages, such as you'll make more pay when you get out of school. But you'll also be working 2 years later. Also, in my scenario, my school district helps me pay for any graduate work - making it quite nice that I have waited and can get my masters paid for!

In regards to what's required to teach in most states:
You'll need to graduate from a certified teaching school. You'll then have to pass the state required tests to prove your content knowledge in the majors you select to teach, thus making you "highly qualified" under No Child Left Behind. It can be a bit of a process in some states, but as long as you have the help from your university staff it is a relatively painless endeavor.

In regards with what else to do with an English degree:
What can't you do? Think about the skills you'll have earned when you complete your English major. While it may not seem like a A = B equation, such as Bachelor of Science in Nursing = Nursing job, it does offer other opportunities. You can work in most jobs that require writing copy, publishing, or even public relations. The key is you do more than just learn to study literature, but master the skills that English demands. Critical thinking and clear, effective communication skills - both verbal and written. These are job skills that are in high demand, while the ability to recite Shakespeare, less so. But of my friends with English degrees, 100% of them have jobs. Half went into education, and the other half are working somewhere in the private sector. Those in the private sector are either making quite a bit less or quite a bit more than my salary, which is a respectable starting teach salary, but still a starting teacher salary.

I hope some of this is useful to you on your quest for direction. If you have any questions about education, fire them off to me. I don't have all the answers, but I work with people who have been teaching or involved in education for many, many years. I can find the answer, if nothing else!

Gork

The key to being successful after school, regardless of degree, is marketing your skills to employers. With an English degree, focus on the unique characteristics that will be improved by focusing on the English language. The ability to communicate clearly, to analyze throughoughly, and to think logically are all honed by studies in English.

p.s. - I have an English degree and am starting business school in a month :P

Chop Logic

Orikaeshigitae wrote: »

I'm an English/Art double major

Thats really cool. Where?

The schools I'm looking at are:

Eugene Lang/Parsons (#1 by FAR)
NYU
Pace
SVA (can't double there, most likley won't go)
SFAI (can't double there, most likley won't go)
Adelphi (saftey)

What I want to do with my life is street art, graphic design, illustration. Thats obviously not the most solid plan in the world, so I think I might end up teaching because I feel like that would allow me to do other things also. A lot of people have told me to go to college for what you're interested in, and that you should worry about finding a job once you're there.

Edit: I'm in NY.

Hewn

Chop Logic wrote: »

What I want to do with my life is street art, graphic design, illustration. Thats obviously not the most solid plan in the world, so I think I might end up teaching because I feel like that would allow me to do other things also. A lot of people have told me to go to college for what you're interested in, and that you should worry about finding a job once you're there.

If you're interested primarily in art, you'll really want to put your emphasis on that. (FYI, I've lurked in your Artist Corner threads!)

I can only speak for teaching, but you'd really want to decide if you were going to teach English or art. To be certified to teach both might be really demanding, as they are both demanding subjects to teach. English is one of the most demanding secondary subjects to teach now, which is why my school basically (unless under special circumstances) didn't even allow English education minors, only majors.

Still, I think it would be a great idea to double major or get an English minor. The two will compliment one another greatly. However, with teaching, you'll be likely teaching one or the other. Depends what your final goal is!

Overall, though, I think it's pretty clear you've got a lot of opportunity with whatever combination of these routes you select.

Chop Logic

Hewn wrote: »

Chop Logic wrote: »

What I want to do with my life is street art, graphic design, illustration. Thats obviously not the most solid plan in the world, so I think I might end up teaching because I feel like that would allow me to do other things also. A lot of people have told me to go to college for what you're interested in, and that you should worry about finding a job once you're there.

If you're interested primarily in art, you'll really want to put your emphasis on that. (FYI, I've lurked in your Artist Corner threads!)

Thanks. Feel free to post in them, hah.

I'd most likley want to teach English. Part of the reason for the double major is that art just isn't academic enough for me. Sure, I love it and I love learning about it, but if I'm in school, I also want to be doing something academic. Reading books, writing papers, that kind of thing. I also just think I would really enjoy being an English teacher. All of my favorite teachers have been English teachers, with the exception of one Social Studies teacher.

Thanks a lot for the info, it's really a lot of help.

kaliyama

Why get a "major" in something? Majoring in english means you have to screw around with a bunch of survey classes. Depending on requirements, you could be stuck in a bunch of classes you don't care about. Now, a lot can be said for getting a solid grounding in the canons of english literature (basically everything from the british isles pre-enlightenment), but it may be more restrictive than what you want. there are also other things to learn about in school you may enjoy - sociology, economics, political science, and history.

you're better off taking just one major and then picking other classes you enjoy . "Majoring" in something just means taking a required courseload. You have to pick one major - why pick two and limit your courseload autonomy even further?

Orikaeshigitae

Sounds to me like English and Art are what he enjoys. I know that's my situation, and having limited electives hasn't bothered me at all, since I'd be taking these courses anyway.

Not to mention the fact that often, arts faculties will restrict their courses to major students only.

Hewn

Chop Logic wrote: »

Hewn wrote: »

Chop Logic wrote: »

What I want to do with my life is street art, graphic design, illustration. Thats obviously not the most solid plan in the world, so I think I might end up teaching because I feel like that would allow me to do other things also. A lot of people have told me to go to college for what you're interested in, and that you should worry about finding a job once you're there.

If you're interested primarily in art, you'll really want to put your emphasis on that. (FYI, I've lurked in your Artist Corner threads!)

Thanks. Feel free to post in them, hah.

I'd most likley want to teach English. Part of the reason for the double major is that art just isn't academic enough for me. Sure, I love it and I love learning about it, but if I'm in school, I also want to be doing something academic. Reading books, writing papers, that kind of thing. I also just think I would really enjoy being an English teacher. All of my favorite teachers have been English teachers, with the exception of one Social Studies teacher.

Thanks a lot for the info, it's really a lot of help.

You will find quite a bit of academic stimulation in English education. There is a tremendous amount of reading, writing, that kind of thing.

Part of what makes it so appealing is that sometimes you truly get to have massive influence on what you teach. I was able to design curriculum for one of my classes this year, meaning I essentially got to write in books and areas of study I felt were important. We have a unit on film. We have a unit on media literacy. Heck, we get to study Johnny Cash's life in our non-fiction unit.

So not only is it fun studying great literature and art, but when you're able to come up with ways to inspire students who have never seen it before... it's truly a fun and rewarding process.

I have a senior class that had never heard of Kurt Vonnegut. Well, we remedied that!

Spoit

Have you considered just majoring in one and minoring in the other?

Uncle Long

This is what I say in every one of these threads: with the arts it's about who you know. No matter what you decide to do make sure you get involved in student organizations and activities related to your field of study and preferably associated with what you want to do later in life. SOs provide both relevant experience and a huge social network of people who may get a job right out of college and help you do the same through their, or another company or enterprise.

I say try out both and if for some reason it seems to tough then make the other a minor or drop it. You're going to be able to test the waters fairly decently in your freshman year. And, lucky for you, both of your pursuits are practicable without academic guidance, though a bit of push in the right direction from time to time is encouraged.

Edit: by the way, I did graduate with a degree in English. I didn't take my own advice there and spent the first couple months after graduation stocking beer for an independent distributor, followed by getting a few IT certs and doing computer work. Now I'm writing out on a remote Alaskan island. Yesterday there were eagles in a tree outside of my window. The day before that I got to take whale pictures and I ate a piece of an iceberg core. After 400+ resumes sent and applications, I guess I paid my dues and now have a cushy job in a great location and I have enough time to do what I really want; writing books.

Taterskin

If you get a basic Bachelors degree, then you will have a much harder time trying to find a job using your Major. If you get a higher degree then things get much easier (which pretty much applies to all Majors) jobwise. I have a friend who is making 80k-ish with a PhD in English.

So no, English degrees aren't useless. But if you get a BA then chances are you will have a much harder time finding a job after you graduate compared to an someone who just got an engineering degree.

EggyToast

I'd say that no degree is useless, it's just whether or not it's useful. I mean, you could get an Engineering degree from MIT but if you go into a different field, you could say your degree is "useless."

Most of what you learn in college is how to process and react to information and assignments. Many jobs will look favorably on *any* degree because it means you can stick with something for 4 years of hard work, and you're willing to learn.

That being said, remember that college has an end, and it's not like high school. High school's end result, in most cases, is as college prep. When college is over, you typically find a job. Sure, some people go for post-graduate education, depending on the field, but the big difference is that when you select a major you should know what your next step is.

My sister was without a major for 2 years until she decided what she wanted to be after graduating, for instance. And my wife went into a PhD program but she knew that when she went to college in the first place, so the question was more "where am I going" than "what do I do now." And that's the key. Selecting English and/or Art is a perfectly fine career choice, if you have a few ideas of what you'd like to do after college and those degrees help you get there. And remember that there are numerous jobs that require a mix of skill sets -- rarely do you simply read classics and do book reports on them (as most peer-reviewed journals usually include book reviews from scholars in academia, who don't exactly get paid for those reviews). But if you have a degree in Classics, for instance, there are numerous historical institutions that, say, run a website or create publishing materials and so on, and knowing the background gets you a foot in the door. Having an Art degree may not make you the next Picasso, but it might lead to a job in illustration, design, consulting, etc. Most industries that utilize any sort of logo usually farm out the work to independent freelance artists, for instance. So you still have plenty of options -- the only time a degree is "useless" is if you didn't think about what you wanted to do after college, and just did what you thought would be "fun." And then you have to take a job in an entirely unrelated field, or go back to school for a different thing.

Scrublet

I only skimmed the thread, so maybe I missed this. But English can be helpful to get you into law school. One of my friends is in the process of doing that very thing.

Solandra

As long as you're not infatuated with the idea of working "in your field" then you have a lot of options. My BA is in literature, and the thing that I focussed on in all of those survey classes was literary criticism. I knew that I didn't want to teach immediately after school, and I knew I couldn't afford to go straight for my MA, so I finished my degree, enjoyed the hell out of it and took not only the classes I had to but the ones that I wanted to take. I knew I'd need to punt when it came to employment, so I fished my resume out to the reputable temp agencies in my area. I had pretty good luck that way, got to see a lot of different systems and learn a fair amount in terms of what I like and what I wouldn't do again on a dare.

I work in IT now, and my degree has given me communications skills for working with non-techies (including vernacular I never expected to use or hear) and for writing user-friendly how-to documents, and all that criticism lent itself to developing analytical skills that help to break down the problems.

YMMV, of course, but it's always worth a laugh when someone asks me what school my computer degree is from and I answer "I got my BA in literature from UCF."

Bob The Monkey

I know a man with an English degree who's currently earning £2,000,000 per annum (that's $4,000,000) advising business in investment. To an employer, your degree demonstrates an ability to commit, to relate to complex issues with plenty of depth, to see patterns and analyse them. An English degree, assuming it's accompanied by good references from your tutors, can get you a lot of good jobs.

That's not to say you can flash your certificate at employers and expect them to prostrate themselves before you. You still have to pursue job opportunities yourself, prove yourself in an interview situation, put yourself out there and network like a motherfucker if you want the best jobs.

Bob The Monkey

One more thing: in England at least (I hear it's the same in America) English is a painfully competitive field academically. If you want to be an academic, English might not be the best choice.

JihadJesus

Little tip: if it's not a degree tied to a specific career path (basically an engineering or CS degree at the bachelors level) they all mean pretty much the same thing to most potential employers:

'I am not a retard, and the probability of me being a drug addict/thief/unreliable loser with no professionalism is markedly lower than those who lack a college degree'

The key to getting a good career out of college is to know what field you want to be in and build solid references and contacts in that area through internships, volunteering, begging, or whatever you have to do.