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It's dangerous to go alone!

GavinGavin Registered User regular
edited December 2007 in MMO Extravaganza
Sorry for the cliche thread name, but I've always wanted an opportunity to use that.

Anyways, onward towards the point:

This might belong in the help forum, but It does relate to MMOs and I thought I would get the best advice here.


So, I have this idea for a game, some basic artwork for it, and I really have the entire concept nailed.

But my issue is that I don't really know where to go to find people with the skills and interest to help me possibly birth this idea into life.

I'm a sophomore in High school, and I don't really have any friends with the necessary skills for this, but honestly, I don't even know what the necessary skills are.

I've thought about maybe trying to make a single player version in flash, just to at least have something to show, and I'm sure I could find someone capable of that, but...

Im really at a loss.

How do creators of games that look like they really could have been started by 1 person get to the point they are at?

(Im talking to you, maplestory)

-Thanks so much =D

Gavin on

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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    And yeah, I'll move this to help if it's really bugging anyone.

    Gavin on
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    rtsrts Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well this is something that I think a lot of younger gamers get involved with. They come up with a game idea and want to turn it into something a bit more real. I can't blame you, I was in a similar situation once. But if you arent really good with at least on aspect of game design, your chances are slim. If you are a great artist, or programmer you might have a chance. You need to go find people who are also very good at what they do who dont like getting paid to work. The problem is that people who don't mind working without pay are usually in high school much like yourself (they don't need pay to survive), and they usually arent very good at anything.

    This is really not a very positive post. But if you want a realistic idea of what is needed you need to hear it. Also I wouldn't try starting with MMOs. There are so many extra levels of complexity involved in MMORPGs that you really need to get your feet wet somewhere else first.

    rts on
    skype: rtschutter
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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well, I'm really only interested in game design and direction, not programming or anything like that.

    MMOs are naturally appealing to me, and when i'm trying to come up with new ideas, that's always the direction I lean towards.

    My idea could certainly have a single player iteration, and I'm not opposed to that...

    How should I go about showing people what it is I want to make for them?

    Gavin on
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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Note:*

    My idea really isn't conventional, and I understand you have no idea what I'm talking about, but I think it would be less complex then you would imagine.

    Gavin on
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    Regicid3Regicid3 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    MMOs may be a little too overwhelming for an amateur. Is this a case of "I have a *great* idea! Who can I get to make my game?" or do you have a talent you could use to contribute (programming, artist, etc...) to the process, besides the idea?

    Regicid3 on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I know some guys at Bioware, and they are extremely creative.

    They often start off with making the game a Pen & Paper / Boardgame version. Play that for a couple months with each other to get kinks etc ironed out.
    Then from there you can try to make a single player game, and if that really works, then you need to find someone with alot of programming and networking skills to add the multiplayer components.

    If you cant bring it to life as a boardgame / pen&paper, then you just saved a whole lot of time and effort of trying to turn a stillborn game into an MMO.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thanks so much for the advice! =D

    I will definitely apply that process to any other ideas I may have, but I really don't see this one functioning as a pen&paper or a tabletop.

    As for skills, I don't have any programming experience, but I would be doing all of the art, character design and such myself, and I would say I'm somewhat talented at it.

    Certainly more so then the average person.

    Gavin on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Well, I'm really only interested in game design and direction, not programming or anything like that.

    I hate to say this, but there isn't a lot of room for "idea guys." They are at the very top, and they got there using skills like programming and art. It's unfortunate, because at one time I wanted to be the very same thing, but the fact is a game only needs a few of those guys and bunch for art, sound, programming etc.

    My best advice to you is, if you really want this idea to become something real, is to take some game design courses in college. You might even find a group of people willing to bring your idea to life.

    Zombiemambo on
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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Well, alright.

    It seems like the general opinion towards aspiring game creators is

    "Life is hard, you will fail!"

    hah, I laugh at your hard facts!

    -Thanks.

    Gavin on
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    Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Thanks so much for the advice! =D

    I will definitely apply that process to any other ideas I may have, but I really don't see this one functioning as a pen&paper or a tabletop.

    As for skills, I don't have any programming experience, but I would be doing all of the art, character design and such myself, and I would say I'm somewhat talented at it.

    Certainly more so then the average person.

    Video games are just glorified tabletop games for the most part. If it cant work as one I really dont see it working for the other.

    The only ones that would have a true problem would be 3d space / flight games, and even that has been done on the tabletop by GamesWorkshop: Battleship Gothica.

    Also, by doing the board game you are laying out all the rules and abilities etc, and how they interact.

    Really, movie producers dont just throw actors at a script they are producing and hope it turns out great, they first write the entire story, then they story board it, then they trim down unnecessary parts etc.

    Right now you are essentially saying you have a great idea for a movie, and want some actors and a director to start producing it. But you cant storyboard it because it wont work in that way.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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    CmdPromptCmdPrompt Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Video games are just glorified tabletop games for the most part. If it cant work as one I really dont see it working for the other.
    This I have to disagree with, for reasons stated here.

    I can understand the logic behind such an idea, but I can't agree with it. There is no reason to artificially reduce the complexity of a game if that complexity is central to how the game works. (Obviously reducing the complexity of the game in order to test the core concepts without dealing with all the other junk makes perfect sense).

    The guys at BioWare could just as easily program a simple game that reflects these core components, without having to resort to pen and paper. I see no reason to say, "If it can't be on pen and paper, it can't work."


    In any case, there are many, many people like you Gavin. I don't doubt you can succeed in some regard, but you have to understand that ideas themselves are incredibly easy to come up with. I can say, right now, hmm, I want an MMORPG that focuses on crafting your weapon (if you're a melee type), your spell (wizard type), or a combination thereof (if you're some other class). This crafting is essential to the game in that, blah blah blah etc.

    The issue, as said before, is in programming and implementation. A game can be good with mediocre art and graphics, but if you don't have code, you're up various creeks minus an implement to move your boat.

    CmdPrompt on
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    ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Well, alright.

    It seems like the general opinion towards aspiring game creators is

    "Life is hard, you will fail!"

    hah, I laugh at your hard facts!

    -Thanks.

    No, I think the general opinion towards aspiring game creators is: "Making games isn't easy, and having a good idea isn't going to get you anywhere without skills to back it up."

    Zombiemambo on
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    WavechaserWavechaser Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Well, alright.

    It seems like the general opinion towards aspiring game creators is

    "Life is hard, you will fail!"

    hah, I laugh at your hard facts!

    -Thanks.

    No, I think the general opinion towards aspiring game creators is: "Making games isn't easy, and having a good idea isn't going to get you anywhere without skills to back it up."

    This is what I love about the new generation of young adults coming into the business industry. They have been brought up their whole lives being told:

    "Listen you don't have to win, as long as you try!"
    "Yeah, you may have gotten 22nd place, but you still deserver a medal!"
    "You know what, we are just going to stop keeping score for sports games, we don't want kids feelings getting hurt!!"

    The real world is going to be a nice cold bucket of water in the face for a lot of these kids who are going to realize that all of the sudden mediocrity isn't an acceptable marketing tool.

    BTW to the OP, i'm in no way suggesting that you are some young adult who is going to fail in mediocrity, I was just backing up Zombiemambo's comments.

    Wavechaser on
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    AccualtAccualt Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Well, I'm really only interested in game design and direction, not programming or anything like that.

    You are fucked unless you have some starting capital to fund the project.
    That or you make friends with people who do the actual work of making a game and like your idea enough to use it instead of one of their own.

    Your absolute best bet is to learn one of the technical skills involved with making games so that you can contribute more than ideas. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Possibly less, even when adjusting for inflation.

    Accualt on
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    DefunkerDefunker Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Gavin wrote: »
    Well, I'm really only interested in game design and direction, not programming or anything like that.

    MMOs are naturally appealing to me, and when i'm trying to come up with new ideas, that's always the direction I lean towards.
    It's pretty typical for your lead game designer to contribute in some other way to the game. Simply because a game's design is complete before production ever starts.

    You need to learn a very important fact: Humans are very creative beings; coming up with some cute idea for a game takes little to no work, and can be done in a single lazy afternoon. Programming a game engine, designing level after level, creating sound, textures, and models - that's real work.

    On the plus side, if you apply yourself, you CAN acquire these skills. It's not easy. In fact, it's one hell of a pain in the fucking ass. But if you don't do it, then you're just another nobody dreamer. It really isn't the end of the world.

    Also: Go with the single player idea. Making a mod will be your best bet.

    Defunker on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    ZekZek Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Seriously, what you're basically saying here is "I'm looking for someone to make a game for me while I tell them what to do." If you think about it for a minute I'm sure you can figure out why that's not going to happen. If you don't have the skills to contribute anything to the project you shouldn't expect people to listen to you.

    Zek on
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    GavinGavin Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you =D

    I think I'll draw up some nice pictures and write a little bit on what it is im trying to do, because I feel like theres so much help coming at me from all directions, but it could be more helpful if it were more specific.

    So, I'm going to do that, and if it's a good idea and gets stolen, oh well...

    If it's a bad idea, I can chalk it up to experience and try again.

    Gavin on
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    Regicid3Regicid3 Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Are you reading the posts in this thread? Because it definitely doesn't seem like you are...

    Regicid3 on
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    jothkijothki Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't actually have any real experience in this kind of thing, but assuming you know at least a little bit of programming, I'd suggest that try to make something, without being too concerned about making a major project out of it. Even if it doesn't do anything near to what you want it to do, you'll gain experience and possibly have a base to build off later.

    jothki on
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