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MMO for a casual crafter?

trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
edited January 2008 in MMO Extravaganza
After getting burnt out on WoW I quit a few months back.

I am now looking for an MMO to fiddle around with on a casual basis, ideally one that has some kind of crafting setup - or something that allows me to be 'productive' without the "go kill xx number of yy and bring me the results" grindquests. Currently I am running my one months free trial on Tabula Rasa but I am a little disappointed about the crafting side of things.

I had played EQ2 some time back and although it wasn't particularly taxing it did have a crafting element to it. How is the game holding up at the moment? - I would assume it's in it's maturity phase now with many/most people at the upper levels and geared up towards raiding to get the whatever the "uber" gear drops are so they can raid the next instance for slightly better "uber" gear. Is there still a place for low level crafting - or is it just not worth the time?

Are there *any* MMO's out there that cater to my tastes? I used to love the crafting in SWG pre-CU, the whole process of surveying, mining, collecting, experimenting, creating blueprints and manufacturing was fascinating to me, and could be done pretty much without having to get too far into the fighting side of things.

Any suggestions?

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trevellian on
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Posts

  • SabanSaban Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    You could be one of those crazy industry folks in EVE, thats probably the most complicated "tradeskill" system in a mmo going right now.

    Saban on
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    I have no idea how the future looks for it, but Saga of Ryzom has pretty damn complex crafting.

    You can get stuff from killing animals, or forage for it. Foraging means that you make a foraging skill out of components - search in a circle, cone or line, range, what quality item to search for etc. (You can make attack spells like this too.)

    Then you make a gathering skill and gather stuff, and build stuff from it.

    ...ok, that was a pretty horrible description of how it works. But anyway, it's a deep system.

    Echo on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    Saban wrote: »
    You could be one of those crazy industry folks in EVE, thats probably the most complicated "tradeskill" system in a mmo going right now.

    Hah, no. Ryzom. :P

    Echo on
  • SabanSaban Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    i'd still say eve, even after playing ryzom.

    Saban on
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    Does EVE still use the "get this list of materials for this blueprint, always get Object X when done"? In Ryzom the stats and attributes on your item depends on the types of materials you build it with.

    But overall I'd still recommend EVE over Ryzom. Mostly because people actually play it.

    Echo on
  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    How long has EVE being going now? It's been around a while hasn't it? Hmmm...guess I will go and investigate EVE a bit further, of course it has the bonus of not being a sword'n'board game, which is a plus!

    trevellian on
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  • johnnyonoesjohnnyonoes Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    If you haven't looked at Pirates of the Burning Sea, then you should take a look. You build shops and they generate hours on their own, making it so that you don't have to spend hours mining or collecting other materials.

    Very nice casual, complicated economy to draw in folks that were really into the more hardcore crafting ie UO, SWG, EVE.

    Mix that with a bunch of pvp where people are going to be losing a ton of stuff, you are looking at a quick a very high amount of demand for about anything you can create.

    johnnyonoes on
  • EntriechEntriech ? ? ? ? ? Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I'm surprised noone's mentioned A Tale in the Desert, arguably the definition of 'crafting/social MMO'.

    Entriech on
  • RiemannLivesRiemannLives Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Except the community for ATITD is inbred and deeply weird. The guy in charge is very fond of zero-feedback puzzles. The graphics are terrible. And there is absolutely nothing to do besides crafting.

    RiemannLives on
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  • -SPI--SPI- Osaka, JapanRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Do PA people still play Wurm? That was kinda AtitD esque crafting heavy gameplay. Well, crafting, walking for literally hours and getting killed by spiders.

    -SPI- on
  • KarennaKarenna Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Reading this made me miss SWG.
    In spite of all the horrible gameplay and shitty combat implementation (fuck you SOE and your little NGE too), the crafting was genuinely enjoyable.

    I certainly do NOT miss DAoC's crafting though.

    Karenna on
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  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Thanks for the ideas guys, I downloaded the EVE online trial for 14 days so I will see how I get on with that.

    8-)

    trevellian on
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  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Does "A Tale in the Desert" still exist? I have heard it is a pretty tradeskill heavy game.


    edit: Well geuss I should have read the thread before hitting reply. It has been mentioned and linked.

    Seg on
  • MedopineMedopine __BANNED USERS regular
    edited December 2007
    I downloaded ATITD just for kicks and ...ow.

    I might play it for free just because I'm an Egypt nut but I'm not paying any amount of money for those graphics, oi!

    Medopine on
  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I thought Dark Age of Camelot had a great crafting system, personally. But I haven't done much of any other crafting in other games.

    urahonky on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I tried ATitD out like, five years ago, when it was pretty new. The world was like, miles and miles of barren landscape and wait, what's this? Some enterprising individual has crudely stacked mud-fired bricks in the shape of a phallus!

    Maybe I'll download the client again, just to see how it works.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
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    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • bamjobamjo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I also highly recommend Pirates of the Burning Sea for casual crafters. It is the least grindy system I have come across in an mmo. Items are produced using stored "labor hours" that accumulate 1:1 in real time. Every item in the game is player produced using labor hours and some number of components.

    So I can log in for 15 minutes, make all the stuff I can using whatever raw materials and stored labor I have, put my products on the auction house. Then I go to bed, and when I wake up I have 8 more hours of stored labor to make stuff with again. No npc loot grind for anything, and no hours spent crafting widgets.

    The downside is this game isn't released yet. Open beta is still going, and characters will be wiped an the end.
    If you pre-order you can play on Jan 7. Otherwise you will have to wait until Jan 23 I think.

    I wouldn't say that the Potbs economy is as robust as the one in EVE, more of a EVE-lite. However, it is much less of a time sink. The ship combat is great, and a real change from typical mmo combat. The land combat is sub-par compared with the other mmo's on the market, and is not really this game's focus anyway.

    bamjo on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Hrm, maybe I should check out Pirates. Seems like fun.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • PeasantDavePeasantDave Jersey ShoreRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    If you end up trying Pirates, post a message here with your name and we'll get you into the guild we have running in the open beta. We are playing as pirates on the Rakham server.

    PeasantDave on
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    How long does the beta last?

    I was thinking maybe I'd start the client download when I leave for christmas traveling in a couple days, then play it sometime after that.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • leafleaf Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    Does EVE still use the "get this list of materials for this blueprint, always get Object X when done"? In Ryzom the stats and attributes on your item depends on the types of materials you build it with.

    But overall I'd still recommend EVE over Ryzom. Mostly because people actually play it.

    Basically. But with some new, very expensive ships, the only method to do so is to "invent" the blueprint to make that ship. Which is a convoluted and exceedingly expensive/complex thing to do if you're attempting to do so on your own.

    Also risky, since you'll be shipping your stuff down to lowsec to put up towers to do the research most likely.

    That and drug production. I've heard tales of woe from people that attempted to do that :\
    (which is too bad because I had hoped to throw in my lot to become a drug lord)

    leaf on
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  • powersurgepowersurge Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    If building isn't your thing Eve Online also offers various forms of trading/hauling. If I didn't have a huge backlog of other games and a WoW sub I'd probably reup my Eve account. It was a ton of fun.

    powersurge on
  • Fartacus_the_MightyFartacus_the_Mighty Brought to you by the letter A.Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I would like to chime in and say "not Vanguard". Unless your idea of fun is to do the exact same thing, for hours on end, with no significant reward other than XP, then stay very far away.

    I'd wager 80% or more of the lvl 50 crafters in Vanguard got there using bots, and most of those are actually active players when they're not botting. Crafting for level is just so boring that a lot of people turn to the dark side.

    Fartacus_the_Mighty on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't really have any good advice for you but it seems to me that any MMO that follows WoWs "everyone is a crafter" philosophy will not be a good fit since the price of goods is almost always less than the materials to make them.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • ZombiemamboZombiemambo Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't really have any good advice for you but it seems to me that any MMO that follows WoWs "everyone is a crafter" philosophy will not be a good fit since the price of goods is almost always less than the materials to make them.

    EVE's economy, AFAIK, is pretty well-balanced. WoW's is screwed up because it's really easy to level crafting and you can do it on the side, so having high crafting doesn't really mean anything. Plus, crafted gear is almost always inferior to stuff you find in instances/while questing.

    Zombiemambo on
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  • SegSeg Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't really have any good advice for you but it seems to me that any MMO that follows WoWs "everyone is a crafter" philosophy will not be a good fit since the price of goods is almost always less than the materials to make them.

    EVE's economy, AFAIK, is pretty well-balanced. WoW's is screwed up because it's really easy to level crafting and you can do it on the side, so having high crafting doesn't really mean anything. Plus, crafted gear is almost always inferior to stuff you find in instances/while questing.

    Unless it is stuff that binds when you craft it. Then you are looking at stuff that will last for a pretty long time. But that does you no good as far as trying to make money is concerned.

    Seg on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I don't really have any good advice for you but it seems to me that any MMO that follows WoWs "everyone is a crafter" philosophy will not be a good fit since the price of goods is almost always less than the materials to make them.

    EVE's economy, AFAIK, is pretty well-balanced. WoW's is screwed up because it's really easy to level crafting and you can do it on the side, so having high crafting doesn't really mean anything. Plus, crafted gear is almost always inferior to stuff you find in instances/while questing.

    Don't you have to train up skills to craft in Eve and thus give up skills that would make you better in combat? What I'm getting at is that in WoW crafting doesn't cost you in terms of combat skills. This leads to materials being seen as a way to skill up crafting skills instead of a way to make useful items.

    lowlylowlycook on
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    Don't you have to train up skills to craft in Eve and thus give up skills that would make you better in combat? What I'm getting at is that in WoW crafting doesn't cost you in terms of combat skills.

    It only costs in that you need to spend time leveling industrial skills instead of combat skills. Overall you lose nothing.

    Echo on
  • Lunatic ClamLunatic Clam Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I found LOTRO's crafting system to be cool in that you pick a profession that has 3 underlying crafts to it - some combine gathering and crafting, some are pure crafting, some are gathering. The thing is that you need at least one other craft that you cannot physically get to do a lot of the stuff you need to do.

    For example, I have a "tinkerer" profession on my main. This includes jewelcrafting, mining, and cooking. My mining can supplement my jewelcrafting, but I need access to a farmer to do a lot of my cooking. This forces me to either roll an alt to farm for me, or more likely find a farmer buddy and trade finished goods for produce, or hit up the AH.

    A lot of the professions are symbiotic like this in that they need another person to complete them. It works out huge for small groups of people who take different classes - we have like 6-7 guys who play regularly and there's an open free trade network of raw goods going to crafters and finished goods going to anyone who needs them.

    Lunatic Clam on
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  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    I wish more crafting in WoW did that. Right now it's mostly the occasional transmute by alchemists that's used by other professions.

    Echo on
  • Lunatic ClamLunatic Clam Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Echo wrote: »
    I wish more crafting in WoW did that. Right now it's mostly the occasional transmute by alchemists that's used by other professions.

    And everyone can cook in WoW, and fish to supplement it. In LOTRO I am a man whose services are in demand as a cook. Especially since you can get a title of "Breakfast Connisseur" if you eat 9 of each of the game's 5 or so breakfast foods.

    Lunatic Clam on
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  • DraevenDraeven Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I always enjoyed Eq2's crafting. It was just complex enoguh to make it seem challenging , with a ton of componatnts and recipes.

    Draeven on
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  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited December 2007
    Due to the fact that you want a casual solution, EVE is a good choice. Its not exactely a casual mmo but you can play it as a crafter without having to do any cmbat at all, due mainly to the non-grind skill progression. No grind means you can train the necessary crafting skills while offline. Additionally, you can set stuff building and leave it manufacturing while logged off. The net result is that you could be a prolific and profitable crafter with the bare minimum of play time dedicated to the game.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • ryuprechtryuprecht Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I have to second the recommendation for LOTRO. They have a free 7 day trial running right now so you can give it a shot. You need to get through the first instance (covers level 1-5) to get to crafting, but that should only take you 3 or so hours.

    ryuprecht on
  • dojangodojango Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    I've been playing the beta for PotBS, the crafting aspect seems interesting. Much more thought out then some other games I've played. And all the good stuff is going to be player made, from ammo to ships to food. Also, unlike EvE, or WoW, your character doesn't have to dirty his hands doing the gathering. You simply build plantations/mines/workshops, and they accumulate "labor" over time. In real time. So you can be off sailing the Spanish Main, while your plantations (run using sustainable organic farming practices by indigenous workers making a fair-trade living wage, no doubt) do all the growing/mining/etc for you. Then you simply sail back to town and order the overseers to whip up some sugar using the stored up labor.

    dojango on
  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    OK, I ran the EVE trial, and liked it so I switched to a full account.

    It's a strange sort of setup - in some ways very casual friendly and in others not at all friendly. (got podkilled about 30 seconds after I poked my head into an asteroid belt in 0.3 sec space...unfortunately carrying a couple hundred thousand ISK worth of training books too...). Death actually means something here, and nowhere is 100% safe (not even the 1.0 sec areas, suicide squads anyone?)

    The skill training/learning arrangement is interesting - basically you pick an area you want to train up in and your character automatically starts learning it, even when you are offline, just that each skill and skill level has an amount of time before you have completed it. So if I am currently learning Iron Will level 3, which takes 8 hours or so to learn, I just start it off before I leave for work and when I come back home I am done :p

    Anyway, I am roaming around the 0.7 - 1.0 areas for now, just mining and ratting to build up a base of ISK while I build up skillpoints. Characters name is McGough if anyone sees me.

    trevellian on
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  • TavTav Irish Minister for DefenceRegistered User regular
    edited December 2007
    City of Heroes was pretty damn sociable and afaik it got a crafting system recently. I don't know how good it is, but lately I've been pretty tempted about getting a free trial for CoH going.

    Tav on
  • EchoEcho ski-bap ba-dapModerator mod
    edited December 2007
    trevellian wrote: »
    The skill training/learning arrangement is interesting - basically you pick an area you want to train up in and your character automatically starts learning it, even when you are offline, just that each skill and skill level has an amount of time before you have completed it. So if I am currently learning Iron Will level 3, which takes 8 hours or so to learn, I just start it off before I leave for work and when I come back home I am done :p

    The downside to that is that I kept going "OK, I have 150 million bucks and two weeks on this skill, so I'll log on again in two weeks." :P

    Echo on
  • elizabexelizabex Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    Not really an option that caters to your yens, but this thread reminded me of how awesome I thought Anarchy Online's 'crafting' (skilltrade?) system was. Upgrading armor always involved a network of contacts to provide stat-raising equipment and buffs, to squeak into the highest gear possible.

    ..of course, that was also my first MMO, so I was probably fairly starry-eyed about the whole process. I remember it as being super gratifying though. :)

    elizabex on
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  • trevelliantrevellian Registered User regular
    edited December 2007
    elizabex wrote: »
    Not really an option that caters to your yens, but this thread reminded me of how awesome I thought Anarchy Online's 'crafting' (skilltrade?) system was. Upgrading armor always involved a network of contacts to provide stat-raising equipment and buffs, to squeak into the highest gear possible.

    ..of course, that was also my first MMO, so I was probably fairly starry-eyed about the whole process. I remember it as being super gratifying though. :)

    I'm the same way about SWG[1] to be honest - it was the closest MMO to have a real broad spectrum of possibilities and I got hooked into the crafting side of things, but I have to temper my memories with the fact that it was my first ever MMO and was in a star wars setting to boot so there is a real danger of rose-tinted glasses.

    It was the complexity of the crafting that hooked me.

    [1] All SWG references are from EU launch until CU, at which point I had enough of SOE playing silly buggers and I left.

    trevellian on
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