[Game On] Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance

CmdPrompt

The hell is Forged Alliance?

Wikipedia wrote:

Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance is a standalone real-time strategy computer game expansion to Supreme Commander, developed by Gas Powered Games and published by THQ, and the second title in the Supreme Commander franchise. Because it is a standalone expansion, it is possible to play without owning Supreme Commander, although without a valid CD Key for Supreme Commander online play is limited to the new faction, the Seraphim. Forged Alliance adds new gameplay features to the game, several new units for the three preexisting factions, and is further optimised for increased performance, in response to issues with the original.

Did they fix the UI taking up a third of the screen?
They did in a patch a while ago, but yes, thankfully.

Screenshots

So, I received Forged Alliance for Christmas, and have been looking forward to actually playing it.
While I really enjoyed the original, I didn't do much any online play, which I'd like to get into this time around. I much prefer playing with friends or people that I know aren't dicks- would other PA members be interested in a Game On? (Original SupCom is fine too)

Forum Name - IGN
CmdPrompt - Joyeuse
Smashism - smashism
Veegeezee - nomad-dc

Smashism

I traded some old 360 games for vanilla and the expansion.
Keys are tied to old accounts though damnit. Gotta do some emailing before I can get online.

Cynic Jester

The biggest question on everyones mind regarding the expansion is "On a scale from Awesome to Fucking Awesome, how awesome are the new superunits?"

CmdPrompt

The good news is that apparently the superunits have been adjusted so that they don't require 20948209 hours to build.
I have not yet used the Seraphim superunits, but I am sure that they will fuck shit up. fuckin' start a riot. A RIOT!

Darmak

I received this for Christmas as well (okay, I bought it, but with gift money!) and while I've installed it, I haven't really had a chance to sit down and play it (nor have I for Crysis and UT3 which I also got as gifts). I'd be down for playing some this weekend perhaps.

Vic

Holy crap, you dont like the seraphim. Nice screensots.

I love this game, however I am completely incapable of playing the single player game as even the first level becomes a slideshow towards the end.

If only they somehow made an AI that is not such an insane resource hog. For now I am content with crushing my friends.

Oh, and the new superunits are awesome.

subedii

Assuming you've got the resources, a team of 5 upgraded SCU's can put out the average experimental every 1-2 minutes. Scary. I tend to have to build a lot of mass storage just to keep up with the massive drain on the economy if I try that.

Singleplayer campaign is tougher, and sometimes it can be a bit cheesy (when you hear "Operational Area Expanded" and all of a sudden you've got a wave of Tech 3 bombers heading your way... yeah that's cheesy). I really enjoyed it though. It's definitely a step up from the difficulty of the original campaign, and it feels as if there's always a battle raging on some front somewhere. Since you start off with access to all of SupCom's units right at the beginning (the newer units are introduced over the course of missions), you need to know how to use them if you're going to have a chance at survival, and battles tend to be bigger and more climactic.

The Seraphim though, just aren't all that different from the other 3 sides. I honestly don't know why they were included. I can't say I liked their visual design and it's not as if they bring anything really unique to the table to warrant another side when the other 3 are already similar enough as it is. I like their experimental bomber though. Even if the enemy has decent air defences, if this thing can make one or two passes you can wipe out half their base.

@ Vic: Out of curiosity, did you manage to play the original Supreme Commander OK? If so, try turning off the tactical range display (basically those rings that show the range of fire for each unit). From what I understand, that bring performance back in line with how it was in the original game. For some reason those little range rings take up a LOT of processing, and they're on by default in Forged Alliance.

As for a game on, I might be up for one. Though be warned, I've played very little online. Most of my experience has been of singleplayer and the odd skirmish match.

Lanrutcon

Wow the campaign is better than the original one. I mean wow. The new rebalancing is...odd. I mainly do UEF so I don't know how the other sides were changed, but the Fatboy got rebalanced, a tier 3 point defense was added (giant gatling cannon anyone?) and a lame orbital weapon was added. The big bad about the expansion is the graphics overhaul: it isn't optional. So my game looks worse and runs worse because I needed to turn the settings down. The orignal ran smooth at full everything with AA, the expansion lags at medium :x

But yeah, I'd say it's good enough for hardcore fans to purchase and if you're new to the whole Total Annihilation thing then you can skip the vanilla game and just pick up the expansion.

subedii

Re: the graphics: Try that thing I suggested for Vic and see if it helps.

I wouldn't go as far as skipping the original game if you're new. The campaign is better but SupCom's campaign was pretty awesome too. Plus, let's face it, people new to the game will be absolutely SLAUGHTERED in the expansion. Heck, first time I played Supreme Commander (and this is an old-school TA fan speaking), I was having trouble with the very first mission. Something that I've never had in an RTS before. Concepts like the importance of combined arms and how to take down key defences and units had to be drilled into you before you could make any progress. And the game would just laugh in your face if you tried to simply tank rush it (I know, I tried. If an AI could laugh after my first 3 failed attempts at attacking it's base, it would be laughing). I was hooked from that moment.

I've played through the campaign as Cybran and Aeon, going to try UEF sometime. As far as I've seen the newly added stuff is largely useful for each side. Tech 1 gunships for Cybran for example, can be a real help for early base defence.

One thing I wanted to ask about though was things like radar jamming and stealth. In a game where Tier 3 radar isn't too difficult to acquire, is there any actual point in using stealth units? That seems to be the Cybran's major trump card, but if their units can be detected anyway, what's the point? Does Omni radar have an actual limit as to how far it can detect stealthed units, or can it see them anywhere on the map?

RoundBoy

Omni has a very small radius around the unit... it could basically cover the unit, and surrounding buildings.. but no more.

So you needed a few of them... but I've never had a problem with stealth units before.

SquintyMcSquint

I've been playing this on and off for a while, trying to get through the single player campaign - which I have to say im actually enjoying. I particularly like the level where:

You gate into the REALLY REALLY obvious trap and then everyones all "Its a trap", Dostya gets wasted and then you spend the next 15 minutes having to turtle for your life against a ridiculous onslaught all the while the crazy professor wants you to retrieve her body - fuck that shit Im getting shot to bits here. Epic shit.

Hoping the next couple of levels are equally awesome. As for game-on, to my shame I have never ever played an RTS game online, no idea why - I guess I couldnt handle realising my shitty turtling tactics are crap!

Cynic Jester

SquintyMcSquint wrote: »

I've been playing this on and off for a while, trying to get through the single player campaign - which I have to say im actually enjoying. I particularly like the level where:

You gate into the REALLY REALLY obvious trap and then everyones all "Its a trap", Dostya gets wasted and then you spend the next 15 minutes having to turtle for your life against a ridiculous onslaught all the while the crazy professor wants you to retrieve her body - fuck that shit Im getting shot to bits here. Epic shit.

Hoping the next couple of levels are equally awesome. As for game-on, to my shame I have never ever played an RTS game online, no idea why - I guess I couldnt handle realising my shitty turtling tactics are crap!

TA/SupCom is one of the few games were you can grab an initial area, then turtle like a fucking bitch. Once your income reaches a certain point, you can just start to build Metal Makers/Mass Whatevers and just sit in your corner of somewhere, protected by a battery of BFGs stationed on every nearby hill.

subedii

Cynic Jester wrote: »

SquintyMcSquint wrote: »

I've been playing this on and off for a while, trying to get through the single player campaign - which I have to say im actually enjoying. I particularly like the level where:

You gate into the REALLY REALLY obvious trap and then everyones all "Its a trap", Dostya gets wasted and then you spend the next 15 minutes having to turtle for your life against a ridiculous onslaught all the while the crazy professor wants you to retrieve her body - fuck that shit Im getting shot to bits here. Epic shit.

Hoping the next couple of levels are equally awesome. As for game-on, to my shame I have never ever played an RTS game online, no idea why - I guess I couldnt handle realising my shitty turtling tactics are crap!

TA/SupCom is one of the few games were you can grab an initial area, then turtle like a fucking bitch. Once your income reaches a certain point, you can just start to build Metal Makers/Mass Whatevers and just sit in your corner of somewhere, protected by a battery of BFGs stationed on every nearby hill.

Problem is that if you don't take the initiative against a decent opponent, or even a decent AI, then that turtling won't do you much good. In the SP campaign it's usually easy to turtle by destroying most of the enemy then building up before the next area expansion. In multi though it's really important to take the initiative. Also whilst creating mass farms is a viable tactic, they also take up a tonne of space and are a huge liability if someone manages to get one decent bomber strike in. You can easily end up with a chain reaction explosion taking out most of your economy in one shot.

Where possible it's always best to build level 3 mass extractors. Much smaller area, greater mass output, and far lower power requirements. Also makes them easier to defend as a result, unless they're spread far and wide, then it becomes difficult to create defensive bases around each on (best bet's usually patrolling aircraft to prevent drop-ins behind your lines).

I often end up building mass farms in SP, but I usually can't afford to in skirmish, at least not in any big way.

But what I love is that base defence and turtling is still an option. Most other games tend to skew towards base defences being crap against the extreme combat effectiveness of units, meaning that there's no real viable defence except to attack and make sure they don't gain those capabilities in the first place. In SupCom a row of AA's can take down most bomber squads before they can cause significant damage. What happens then is that base cracking becomes a series of smaller objectives where you try to take out different defensive positions in order to get your main forces through. Scouting and surgical strikes are pretty key to cracking a well defended base. Base defences actually MEAN something here.

ROFISH

For those of you who don't have FA, GoGamer.com has it on sale for $20. It's a steal, because you don't even need SupCom at all. (Although you're limited to just playing as Seraphim in multiplayer.)

I hope to get it either tomorrow or the day after!

Cynic Jester

subedii wrote: »

Cynic Jester wrote: »

SquintyMcSquint wrote: »

I've been playing this on and off for a while, trying to get through the single player campaign - which I have to say im actually enjoying. I particularly like the level where:

You gate into the REALLY REALLY obvious trap and then everyones all "Its a trap", Dostya gets wasted and then you spend the next 15 minutes having to turtle for your life against a ridiculous onslaught all the while the crazy professor wants you to retrieve her body - fuck that shit Im getting shot to bits here. Epic shit.

Hoping the next couple of levels are equally awesome. As for game-on, to my shame I have never ever played an RTS game online, no idea why - I guess I couldnt handle realising my shitty turtling tactics are crap!

TA/SupCom is one of the few games were you can grab an initial area, then turtle like a fucking bitch. Once your income reaches a certain point, you can just start to build Metal Makers/Mass Whatevers and just sit in your corner of somewhere, protected by a battery of BFGs stationed on every nearby hill.

Problem is that if you don't take the initiative against a decent opponent, or even a decent AI, then that turtling won't do you much good. In the SP campaign it's usually easy to turtle by destroying most of the enemy then building up before the next area expansion. In multi though it's really important to take the initiative. Also whilst creating mass farms is a viable tactic, they also take up a tonne of space and are a huge liability if someone manages to get one decent bomber strike in. You can easily end up with a chain reaction explosion taking out most of your economy in one shot.

Where possible it's always best to build level 3 mass extractors. Much smaller area, greater mass output, and far lower power requirements. Also makes them easier to defend as a result, unless they're spread far and wide, then it becomes difficult to create defensive bases around each on (best bet's usually patrolling aircraft to prevent drop-ins behind your lines).

I often end up building mass farms in SP, but I usually can't afford to in skirmish, at least not in any big way.

But what I love is that base defence and turtling is still an option. Most other games tend to skew towards base defences being crap against the extreme combat effectiveness of units, meaning that there's no real viable defence except to attack and make sure they don't gain those capabilities in the first place. In SupCom a row of AA's can take down most bomber squads before they can cause significant damage. What happens then is that base cracking becomes a series of smaller objectives where you try to take out different defensive positions in order to get your main forces through. Scouting and surgical strikes are pretty key to cracking a well defended base. Base defences actually MEAN something here.

See, I disagree with some of what you say. Yes, you need to take the initiative. Once you have it, hunker down, build an econ that steamrolls his and pump your unit of choice. Superunits in SupCom, Hawks in TA.

Also, I loathe 1v1s in both SupCom and TA. So hard. These games were made for awesomely huge battles where a quarter of the map turns into a battlefield, nukes flying right and left, planes on patrol all over the place. So much fun.

Vic

subedii wrote: »

Re: the graphics: Try that thing I suggested for Vic and see if it helps.

I'd love to, if you told me how. Looked through all the options and googled it with no success.

Viscountalpha

I found out about supcom from chris taylor himself. Some friends of mine do a podcast and they had him on his show. It was kind of neat to hear him talk about his experiences growing up and what lead to TA/sup com.

I will say there are some glitches in forged alliance. I've had an experimental get stuck in the environment, an air pocket trap my units and another air pocket trap enemy units in the SP. Terrane realted so far.

I need a Q6600 before I really get into Supcom and TA again.

Fartacus_the_Mighty

I found the FA campaign to be easier than the original, simply because you start out having all units/structures available (except for the new FA stuff). As UEF, all missions boiled down to securing a perimeter, then building up economy, then pumping out a bunch of experimental artillery. Of course, I would refrain from annihilating the existing enemy until my defenses were prepared.

All I could do was laugh when I got the "Operational area expanded" cue, and my 9 Mavors would rotate around and annihilate whatever new enemy base just popped up. Having my base completely surrounded by tons of double shielded (t2 generators inside of t3s so no overlap) PD and AA certainly helped a bit, too.

Scynix

Just a note for people who are getting back into the game: Mass fabs aren't worth it anymore. A tier 3 mass extractor surrounded by mass storage is far more cost effective than a mass fab farm. Partly because, the only efficient mass fab farm is a tier 3 generator(s) surrounded by tier 2 mass fab. The the tier 3 mass fab is made of lose and fail.

Viscountalpha

Scynix wrote: »

Just a note for people who are getting back into the game: Mass fabs aren't worth it anymore. A tier 3 mass extractor surrounded by mass storage is far more cost effective than a mass fab farm. Partly because, the only efficient mass fab farm is a tier 3 generator(s) surrounded by tier 2 mass fab. The the tier 3 mass fab is made of lose and fail.

For what it costs and the energy requirements, it really does need a buff.

Fartacus_the_Mighty

Viscountalpha wrote: »

Scynix wrote: »

Just a note for people who are getting back into the game: Mass fabs aren't worth it anymore. A tier 3 mass extractor surrounded by mass storage is far more cost effective than a mass fab farm. Partly because, the only efficient mass fab farm is a tier 3 generator(s) surrounded by tier 2 mass fab. The the tier 3 mass fab is made of lose and fail.

For what it costs and the energy requirements, it really does need a buff.

Yeah, it does. Note that the energy requirements are a lot lower in single player than they are in skirmish/multi.

Vic

Bump, I need to know how to turn off tactical range display!

subedii

Vic wrote: »

Bump, I need to know how to turn off tactical range display!

IIRC you select the 'strategic overlay option' (should be below the mass / power bar at the top. If not there should be a green arrow that'll allow you to expand it). The option should be in there, along with options for whatever other overlays you do and don't want.

CmdPrompt

Its interesting that a game that was touted as bringing the focus off the micro and onto macro strategies features some of the most frantic building\moving\etc. in an RTS.

Alternatively I just suck at SupCom, but I'm enjoying getting back into this game.

Viscountalpha

CmdPrompt wrote: »

Its interesting that a game that was touted as bringing the focus off the micro and onto macro strategies features some of the most frantic building\moving\etc. in an RTS.

Alternatively I just suck at SupCom, but I'm enjoying getting back into this game.

I think The AI really frustrates me alot. There isn't enough selection in their general activity. I'm constantly screwing with them and yelling "NO YOU FSKING PIECE OF SHIT!!! NOOOO!" at my screen.

CmdPrompt

Yeah, thats why I'd like to start playing people. I just beat the Adaptive AI more due to the fact that they enjoyed throwing their units into my T2 PD than skill on my part

Anyone, or even better multiple people, up for a game?

Viscountalpha

CmdPrompt wrote: »

Yeah, thats why I'd like to start playing people. I just beat the Adaptive AI more due to the fact that they enjoyed throwing their units into my T2 PD than skill on my part

Anyone, or even better multiple people, up for a game?

This pentium D-920 will choke if I try a multi-player game. I so want to, but my cpu needs an upgrade which I think I can afford soon.

Smashism

CmdPrompt wrote: »

Yeah, thats why I'd like to start playing people. I just beat the Adaptive AI more due to the fact that they enjoyed throwing their units into my T2 PD than skill on my part

Anyone, or even better multiple people, up for a game?

I have vanilla, but I'm still waiting for FA in the mail. Fair warning though, I suck at RTS. Probably out of every genre I enjoy, I play RTS the worse. Anyways, when I get my copy we'll get some games going. I'll put up half the fight that AI does though.

Is there a friends system in gpgnet?

Viscountalpha

Smashism wrote: »

CmdPrompt wrote: »

Yeah, thats why I'd like to start playing people. I just beat the Adaptive AI more due to the fact that they enjoyed throwing their units into my T2 PD than skill on my part

Anyone, or even better multiple people, up for a game?

I have vanilla, but I'm still waiting for FA in the mail. Fair warning though, I suck at RTS. Probably out of every genre I enjoy, I play RTS the worse. Anyways, when I get my copy we'll get some games going. I'll put up half the fight that AI does though.

Is there a friends system in gpgnet?

I don't even remeber my login at all. Ugh.. have to go get it reset.

CmdPrompt

Smashism wrote: »

CmdPrompt wrote: »

Yeah, thats why I'd like to start playing people. I just beat the Adaptive AI more due to the fact that they enjoyed throwing their units into my T2 PD than skill on my part

Anyone, or even better multiple people, up for a game?

I have vanilla, but I'm still waiting for FA in the mail. Fair warning though, I suck at RTS. Probably out of every genre I enjoy, I play RTS the worse. Anyways, when I get my copy we'll get some games going. I'll put up half the fight that AI does though.

Is there a friends system in gpgnet?

Yes, and trust me, its fine. I'm not here to take names and call others n00bs, I just like playing against humans

I just completed a stupidly long 3v3 with the AI. By the end of the game I was getting tired of the stalemate so I threw all of my resources and production into building the Seraphim experimental bomber. That meant that the enemy was able to start moving in and destroying my mass extractors, making the bomber take even longer. Still, I was elated to see it finally take to the skies... and promptly run into another experimental bomber right outside my base.
...and on the way to the other guy with an experimental bomber I revealed an experimental assault bot coming my way as well
...and a legion of T3 tanks, artillery, and mobile shield things

At least my base exploding was pretty

Viscountalpha

I'm redoing the single player and I have to say cheating is kinda fun. Spawing 100 experimentals at once and using it to rape the computer player is just too much fun to not take advantage of. I did beat it once without cheating so I invoke the " Cheat after i'm through" rule.

L|ama

I would love to play it, but it's exactly the sort of game that would be awesome with a top of the line PC and 2 screens. However I have a crappy PC and could barely run the demo.

Veegeezee

Anybody up for a game later tonight? Like, in about five or six hours?

TychoCelchuuu

The Supreme Commando demo (for the original game) crashes after about ~5 minutes of gameplay. I'm reluctant to purchase SC or FA without getting a chance to try it out, or at least see the fixed UI. Can anyone explain what changes they made or take a screenshot? If I knew at least it wouldn't take up half my freaking screen I might track down some friend to borrow the thing or maybe even, gasp, buy it, even though I have Company of Heroes taking up my strategy time right now

CmdPrompt

Veegeezee, I just got home and I'd be up for a game.
Tycho, I'll grab a screen next time I play.

Smashism

Hit me up guys. My user name is smashism. Add me and well play. Honestly have no idea what I'm doing yet. Just messed around in the tutorial. Started on the first mission in campaign.

CmdPrompt

Alright, so to add friends, go to the chat, and do /friend <name>
I added you Smashism, my IGN is Joyeuse

I created a clan in hopes that that would somehow make getting people together easier, but I somehow doubt it will help all that much
In any case, the name is Penny Arcadians and the tag is PAN (PA was taken). Feel free to join up.

Cynic Jester

I'll most likely grab this sometime this weekend.

Smashism

The tutorial is Vanilla is plain shit.
The tutorial in FA is eh.

Either way, heres a link for a guide. Wealth of information here.
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/index.php?showtopic=173226

edit: GPGnet is pretty nice. I like the integrated stats and friends. Smart stuff.

Lets get a game going against the computer later this weekend.

Veegeezee

Here there be screenshots...


UI visible:

UI tucked away:

I'm having connection issues this evening, so it looks like I'm out. For future reference, my game name is "nomad-dc", feel free to add me.

TychoCelchuuu

Hm, that certainly looks nicer. Maybe they'll release a demo for Forged Alliance sometime. Thanks for the screenshots.