The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Sci-Fi, Fantasy, and Moral Influence
Qingu
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Many science fiction and fantasy authors overtly write about moral and philosophical concepts, with the intent to influence their readers in some way. C.S. Lewis, for example, wrote The Chronicles of Narnia as an allegory and apologetic for Christianity. Terry Goodkind (I'm told) is a proselytizer of Objectivism. Robert Heinlein espoused authoritarian political views.
Some sci-fi authors have even managed to start cults around their stories. The most obvious example is L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. But Isaac Asimov's Foundation was used (without his knowledge and almost certainly against his wishes) as a sort of textbook or Bible for Aum Shinrikyo, the Japanese death cult responsible for the 1995 tokyo subway attack.
Some popular modern fantasy writers seem somewhat objective by comparison, at first glance. (George R. R. Martin, from what I've read of him, doesn't really seem to be pushing any ideology). On the other hand, authors like Philip Pullman and even J. K. Rowling openly have moral agendas (the former's being atheist/humanist, the latter's being humanist/tolerant). Sci-fi shows like Battlestar Galactica seem to be a running commentary on contemporary political events.
I think the reason for this is because all fiction is in some way a mirror of reality, and most authors have a strong moral view of reality in some way or another. Their popularity in their genre is thus inevitably a soap box, whether or not they intentionally use it as one.
It's strange to think just how much of my moral view has come straight from the sci-fi and fantasy genre that I enjoyed in my "formative years." I loved Star Wars as a kid, got into Kurt Vonnegut in high school. I didn't read much fantasy but I played a lot of fantasy videogames, especially Final Fantasy, which has just as strong and overt moral views as some of the authors I mentioned (especially about religion and politics).
What fantasy and sci-fi authors influenced you?
Some sci-fi authors have even managed to start cults around their stories. The most obvious example is L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. But Isaac Asimov's Foundation was used (without his knowledge and almost certainly against his wishes) as a sort of textbook or Bible for Aum Shinrikyo, the Japanese death cult responsible for the 1995 tokyo subway attack.
Some popular modern fantasy writers seem somewhat objective by comparison, at first glance. (George R. R. Martin, from what I've read of him, doesn't really seem to be pushing any ideology). On the other hand, authors like Philip Pullman and even J. K. Rowling openly have moral agendas (the former's being atheist/humanist, the latter's being humanist/tolerant). Sci-fi shows like Battlestar Galactica seem to be a running commentary on contemporary political events.
I think the reason for this is because all fiction is in some way a mirror of reality, and most authors have a strong moral view of reality in some way or another. Their popularity in their genre is thus inevitably a soap box, whether or not they intentionally use it as one.
It's strange to think just how much of my moral view has come straight from the sci-fi and fantasy genre that I enjoyed in my "formative years." I loved Star Wars as a kid, got into Kurt Vonnegut in high school. I didn't read much fantasy but I played a lot of fantasy videogames, especially Final Fantasy, which has just as strong and overt moral views as some of the authors I mentioned (especially about religion and politics).
What fantasy and sci-fi authors influenced you?
Qingu on
0
Posts
I suppose I can also credit her with my first exposure to feminist literature. Tehanu was unlike any fantasy novel I'd read and I loved how it focused on the powerless and weak rather than the bold and the mighty. The Left Hand of Darkness also made me question gender roles and the assumption of heterosexuality.
Adolescents' interest in science-fiction coincides with the age period where propositional and hypothetical thinking really becomes possible, as prefrontal brain maturation finally kicks in. Science fiction is fascinating to youths in the tween to teen years because it's a fantastic mental exercise for imagining a different society with an imaginary (superior?) set of values, norms, and morals.
So I totally dig this thread. I'm all about the belief that science fiction is heavily formulative. Ursula LeGuin and Orson Scott Card shaped me a damn lot.
Also The Left Hand of Darkness by Le Guin.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Matthew_Stover
I peruse it occasionally, but really just to see updates on Caine Black Knife.
"Incest is totally worth it!"
"Lesbian Sex for everyone!"
:winky:
I kinda liked it (I was like 12 years old, fuck you), but I totally wasn't influenced by it. And I'm not proud of it. But the ideology espoused therein was pretty fucking obvious*.
I suppose I was influenced a little by the first couple of chapters in Enders Game. The bit about absolutely crushing opposition seemed pretty worthwhile.
I dunno, after I started taking poli-sci and history classes (and reading nonfiction), most of those "big worldview" authors started to fade in importance. George R.R. Martin is pretty much my favorite ever, and yeah, not a lot of actual ideology that I can spot in those tomes.
*FUCK PSYCHIATRISTS
Although I'm not really in any way religious, Gene Wolfe's stuff about god hit me right in the chest when I first read it. I understood why people believe.
Yeah, that. That is good stuff. I think this is how someone might believe something. It's a bit of a window into the mind of a believer, and had a similar effect on me as it did on you.
Sci-fi and Fantasy literature have shaped my opinions about the world and ideologies, mainly because those types of literature can examine scenarios that aren't possible in modern world, or examine the ones that are from a different point of view. I can't really point out a single author that has had the greatest influence on my thinking, but I can see myself having different opinions if I hadn't read so much.
"How do gods die? And when they do, what becomes of them then? You might as well ask, how do gods get born? All three questions are, really, the same question. And they all have a common assumption: that humankind can no more live without gods than you can kill yourself by holding your breath.
We need gods - Thor or Zeus or Krishna or Jesus or, well, God - not so much to worship or sacrifice to, but because they satisfy our need - distinctive from that of all the other animals - to imagine a meaning, a sense to our lives, to satisfy our hunger to believe that the muck and chaos of daily existence does, after all, tend somewhere. It's the origin of religion, and also of storytelling - or aren't they both the same thing? As Voltaire said of God: if he did not exist, it would have been necessary to invent him.
In the beginning God made man?" Quite - and quite precisely - the reverse."
That, coupled with Blade of Tyshalles "]A religion that teaches you God is something outside the world--something separate from everything you see, smell, taste, touch, and hear--is nothing but a cheap hustle" pretty much sums up my views on god and religion in general.
The Culture is the future I want to live in. That or the one in Mass Effect. Sure, there's plenty of conflict, but humanity is still hopeful and starting to explore the universe.
This is why I want to live forever -- I'm so damn curious about where humanity will end up. :P
moral relativism olol!
Damm dude, I thought I was the only one! Did you buy the books or were they in the local library (maybe supplied by a friendly Scientologist?)
I think the influence of books on character formation may be a little over rated. I've read a few books in my time (rough guess about 3-3.5k), many of which quite overt agendas - like Narnia/the dekaology referenced above/a whole bunch of anti liberal Westerns (written by an Englishman - yes seriously)/ old school Wilbur Smith (the ones set in SS Africa) and yet I still ended up liberal. (these were books my parents owned)
It's a pretty great series. Lucifer's character was quite interesting in Sandman, and I like that they continued following him with this series. In Sandman, it felt like they could've done more with the character, but this way we got Sandman and Lucifer both.
Yeah, I used the same argument in a conversation once. The answer I got? "It's against God's will" or some other shit about people not being meant to live forever, and why would anyone want to live forever and blah blah blah.
Seriously, you'd guess that people were at least a bit curious. It was a bit of a surprise to me how many people wouldn't choose to live forever. I sure as hell would, if it were possible.
Two stories of his that stuck with me forever were the ones where...
and the one where
I think his stories go a long way towards shaping my pessimistic view of humanity. And why I always instinctively think people are made out of cotton candy.
I've read a few Ray Bradbury stories, including the first one you mentioned, and I find him kinda creepy. There are 3 themes that always seem to appear in his stories. Sometimes a story only has 1 or 2, but it always has at least 1 of these:
1) Children are all complete sociopaths. Given the opportunity, they will gleefully kill their parents, their friends, and anyone else they can get to. Conversely, parents who don't devote all their time to their children, and instead waste time with things like jobs, are terrible people who deserve the horrible fates that inevitably befall them.
2) Technology is evil.
3) Humanity on the whole is worthless, and the world would be better off if we were all dead.
On the other hand, I was definitely raised by Tolkien, and still find myself thinking in moral absolutes when I don't watch myself.
I loved ASOIAF because it had a political core, while showing that people are neither completely good nor completely bad. I think the key line from that is when Littlefinger says:
I also like William Gibson for exposing the consumerist beat of our hearts. Not really criticising it, just laying out on the side, to be seen more easily.
And every writer has an ideology, whether they're consciously pushing it or not.
It really sheds light on the irony of Utopian visions.
Theres nothing more cruel than a child.
More often then not in the original, when a human acquired a huge amount of power they used it to screw everyone over then wound up dying or worse.
Don't want to be an ass, but I'm curious as to when the crew saved themselves by acquiring god like powers.
There WAS that thing with Wesley.
Your insight astonishes me.
*cough*
Erm...trying to think back. Tamora Pierce wrote very pro-feminist teen fantasy with a dash of well-constructed romance that I really loved at 13. Anne Mcaffrey leant that way, too. Pratchett's Equal Rites and Small Gods went off like a bomb in my brain in early high school, even though his later work is objectively better. OTOH, I also read all the WoT books without turning into a sighing, flouncing, braid-tugging bore (in fact, the stupidity of the characters gender-wise didn't really register at all until someone pointed it out, and I still think Nynaeve is kind of awesome >.>), so I'm not sure that the books I read 'influenced me' so much as one might think. I already had a pretty militant sense of justice, confirmation bias did the rest.
Guess I had managed to block that out. Thanks for reminding me.
Wasn't it was Wesely screwing around with his innate god-like powers that sent them a bajillion lightyears away in the firstplace? Assuming I'm thinking of the same episode anyway.
In general it seemed that humans wielding god-like power brought more problems then solutions in Star Trek.
Logan's Run was a good example. A city of beautiful people where everyone is happy and healthy, until any given citizen turns 30 and their "Life day" comes where they are reborn into a new person. Except it's not a rebirth, but a death sentence. Once someone decides they don't want to be "renewed" the whole beautiful world suddenly comes tumbling down around them.
I think these ideas often stem from a realization that everyone has at one point or another; Despite our best intentions, the world is flawed and imperfect and horrible things will always happen.
It definetly had an impact in how I viewed Starship Troopers and politics in general. You want to vote? Then you better Pay for the privilige punk! If the right to vote is worth something, then its worth paying for ethos is one a lot of people miss(libertarians especialy). I was suprised to learn that a lot of people consider it to be a fascist book.
Paying taxes and serving in the army are the price of a free society, not the hallmarks of tyranny.