The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
Please vote in the Forum Structure Poll. Polling will close at 2PM EST on January 21, 2025.
Boss battles in GH3? A lame example, but there's just no way to make them interesting or difficult in a realistic manner.
I'll also agree with Civ in general for having stupid in large amounts. Seeing my newly traded tech showing up at my doorstep 3 turns later made me so angry. If not for Test of Time I'd have probably never given the series any real chance.
Boss battles in GH3? A lame example, but there's just no way to make them interesting or difficult in a realistic manner.
I'll also agree with Civ in general for having stupid in large amounts. Seeing my newly traded tech showing up at my doorstep 3 turns later made me so angry. If not for Test of Time I'd have probably never given the series any real chance.
What disappointed me about those fights was the fact that it wasn't like playing against someone. The computer was perfect unless you used a power against them. Not to mention some of the power ups were incredibly underpowered. The battle mode against someone is fun, against the comp, not so much.
My favorite cheating NPC was Santa from Ultima Online. I remember inciting one Santa to attack the town gaurds. That santa killed 4-5 gaurds bare handed before going down.
Fizzle on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited January 2008
Half life 1 marines and their mastery of the grenade curveball.
You would hide behind a box to reload and five grenades would land at the same point next to you from five different directions.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Oh I found a really good example of Cheating AI, Again Call of duty. I was in one mission where you have to wait for Evac, and I was just hiding because every second I exposed myself I got my ass kicked. So I hide and grenade indicators are no less than 4 on my screen (for at least 3 or 4 minutes) at a time. My one ally hadn't shot anyone so I stand up to look, there are two guys out there. Now when I stand up and look outside, two guys just sitting there. How they managed to bombard me so badly I have no idea.
Also fuck Total war, The rebellions are ridiculous even on normal difficulty every province seems to rebel after you get so big, for no good reason.
Ziac45 on
0
ViscountalphaThe pen is mightier than the swordhttp://youtu.be/G_sBOsh-vyIRegistered Userregular
Why does everyone who sucks at Puzzle Quest insist that the game must be cheating?
Depends on with version. It sounded like the DS version had a ton more glitchery then the 360 version did. That being said, my strong troll ring and erik's bow are totally not cheating. Oh sure I gain 3 health each one of my turns that I have +9 blue mana but thats not cheating at all. And using stun? Instant +6 heal there.
Why does everyone who sucks at Puzzle Quest insist that the game must be cheating?
After the 19th time it passes up a 4 of a kind to match a three of a kind and gets the bonus turn thanks to its stats, you start getting suspicious.
This is the big thing right here. It's moves are generally intelligent, and the only time it does something seemingly stupid is when it results in a huge combo/bonus/etc. that it shouldn't be able to predict (unless it's cheating).
Also, Red Alert. I was playing a skirmish as Allies against a Soviet CPU player, and I'd just finished wiping them off the map save for a few infantry in the corner. After a few minutes, lo and behold, a MCV rolls into their starting area from off the map and begins building a new base.
Oh, and I'll throw in another chip for the Civ series. Most memorably Civ 3, where the AI would know the exact location of the weak points in your defenses. If you had an undefended city at the center of your empire, the CPU would always know this and send units there. Civ 3 and 4 AI also had the infuriating behavior of sending settlers into the tiny gaps in your culture coverage.
Why does everyone who sucks at Puzzle Quest insist that the game must be cheating?
After the 19th time it passes up a 4 of a kind to match a three of a kind and gets the bonus turn thanks to its stats, you start getting suspicious.
The bigger one is when it passes up a 4 of a kind for a 3 of a kind, which then coincidentally drops pieces (from off the board) that create a chain of 6 lines (or else drops a charge skull into the perfect spot to do 40 damage)
Rubberbanding in general pisses me off more than anything Civilization has ever done.
Seriously, F-Zero GX did it better than any game before or since. The AI racers were brutally efficient gods of speed, but they didn't get a boost just because I was ahead of them. If I took the lead I kept it unless I screwed up. Also none of this "Whichever AI ranks highest the first race will always win... EVERY time... regardless of how badly it gets screwed over during the race" crap from Mario Kart. Seriously, that bullshit is just lazy.
Also, Red Alert. I was playing a skirmish as Allies against a Soviet CPU player, and I'd just finished wiping them off the map save for a few infantry in the corner. After a few minutes, lo and behold, a MCV rolls into their starting area from off the map and begins building a new base.
O_o Freaky..I've never run into that one, and I'm the kinda guy that leaves one enemy ore truck alive so I can sprawl a huge base across the entire map.
One thing that annoyed me in Tiberian Sun, playing against the NOD meant you had to pave and wall in your base or else you'll get a burrowing apc engineer rush. Quite a few times they captured and sold half my base before I could get the defenses up fast enough.
I absolutely hated mario kart double dash for this. My roommates at the time refused to believe me for weeks on end that the computer constantly cheats. Up until they were watching me one afternoon, and I had gotten a golden mushroom and started boosting the shit out of it.
Two karts whip by my like I'm parked, and there were no special effects around them to denote an item use. So two karts driving normally just pass someone with a super boost like nothing. Right.
I noticed this in Mario Kart 64 as well, but it only seemed to happen with one character. Whenever I did the Grand Prix, I always noticed that one character (never specific) had a massive edge over all the others (far, far ahead 99% of the time, often has a ridiculous lead). Sometimes it makes the Grand Prix more edgy and fun because you actually have a challenge, but usually it's just an excuse for me to start abusing my controller.
That's exactly how it worked in Mario Kart DS, too.
If I could remind you for a moment that when I play, the board always starts the same. In fact, it's the same layout as this other dude's. And the pieces that fall are entirely determined by what you match up on the board. Now I'm no programmer or statistician, but I'm pretty sure the odds of that happening infinitely, for multiple people, from random generators is pretty fucking slim.
So this "lazy" programmer programmed individual paths for assembled puzzle layouts, accommodating every possible move one could make at the beginning, and all subsequent moves from that point (which would exponentially increase the paths or something)? That's not lazy. That is stupid, and would produce a cheating computer who can memorize the patterns more easily than the player.
Did you know that's a known bug (the layout being the same) in the DS version?
I suspect the Puzzle Quest A.I for different reasons. Me being a rookie puzzler, sometimes resort to the small prompt arrow to show me a viable combination. Not for long. Most of the time I would match the suggestion, which clears, allowing charge skulls and what not to fall in for the CPU's turn. Soon enough it had turned from; "hmm, thats one" to "I guess I could do.....wait thats what it WANTS me to think" DAMN YOU PUZZLE QUEST!!!!
Did you know that's a known bug (the layout being the same) in the DS version?
I did not, and should remind everyone that my complaints are of course specifically about the DS version.
Still, that being a bug, makes you wonder how thoroughly this game was tested before release. Or if it was even turned on at all before the green light.
Also, Red Alert. I was playing a skirmish as Allies against a Soviet CPU player, and I'd just finished wiping them off the map save for a few infantry in the corner. After a few minutes, lo and behold, a MCV rolls into their starting area from off the map and begins building a new base.
O_o Freaky..I've never run into that one, and I'm the kinda guy that leaves one enemy ore truck alive so I can sprawl a huge base across the entire map.
One thing that annoyed me in Tiberian Sun, playing against the NOD meant you had to pave and wall in your base or else you'll get a burrowing apc engineer rush. Quite a few times they captured and sold half my base before I could get the defenses up fast enough.
Given that it's just mimicing what human players would do, that'd probably be an example of good AI.
You know what AI sucks the most? Every racing game ever. Running a 50 lap race and up a lap and a half as you start the final lap? Hey look at that, there's three guys on your ass suddenly driving perfectly - don't fuck up even the smallest thing, or you magically fall into fourth place despite roasting their asses the whole race.
It's even WORSE in arcade style racers like Mario Kart or Excite Truck. They'll outrun you without a boot, or they'll just go balls-out racing when you have to dick around doing tricks and taking the long way to wrack up points (that still won't matter unless you still manage to win the race).
Why does everyone who sucks at Puzzle Quest insist that the game must be cheating?
After the 19th time it passes up a 4 of a kind to match a three of a kind and gets the bonus turn thanks to its stats, you start getting suspicious.
This is the big thing right here. It's moves are generally intelligent, and the only time it does something seemingly stupid is when it results in a huge combo/bonus/etc. that it shouldn't be able to predict (unless it's cheating).
That is completely untrue. I've seen it idiotically pass up four-of-a-kinds many times for no particular benefit. (My wife sees them quicker than I do, so she'll often point one out directly after I finish my move).
Just to clear up how the Puzzle Quest AI works - it will grade available moves based on a ranking system, which I'm not too sure about suffice that 4-of-a-kinds stand on top.
Then, depending on the difficulty it will make a move. In Hard difficulty, there is a 90% chance it will take the move it registers as being 'best'. I believe in normal it's a 50% chance, with the remainder being split up amongst all other available moves.
Just to clear up how the Puzzle Quest AI works - it will grade available moves based on a ranking system, which I'm not too sure about suffice that 4-of-a-kinds stand on top.
Then, depending on the difficulty it will make a move. In Hard difficulty, there is a 90% chance it will take the move it registers as being 'best'. I believe in normal it's a 50% chance, with the remainder being split up amongst all other available moves.
You are correct. The computer doesn't always choose the "best" move because it's programmed to overlook the best ones on certain difficulty levels, just as a human might overlook a good or "best" move simply because...well, they're human and make mistakes. That doesn't represent bad, spotty, or cheating a.i. - it just means that it's not meant to always choose the best move.
ChewyWaffles on
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
The worst rubberbanding I've ever seen isn't Burnout or NBA Jam or any of that. I nominate Hot Wheels World Race. That game does not have a rubber band. That game uses a damn tow rope. No matter how much you boost, no matter how much they crash, it is extremely difficult to get more than a two-second lead at any time. And once you have it, don't expect it to last more than, say, three seconds.
As for you, unless you're crashing through half the race, the same applies to you. Everyone, you included, is almost guaranteed to cross the finish line within five seconds of one another.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
Why does everyone who sucks at Puzzle Quest insist that the game must be cheating?
After the 19th time it passes up a 4 of a kind to match a three of a kind and gets the bonus turn thanks to its stats, you start getting suspicious.
Let's hear it for confirmation bias! Whoop whoop!
The Puzzle Quest AI works thus: It will evaluate all valid moves and rank them on their immediate effect. Say, if it can get a vertical 4-of-a-kind that will add a three-gem elemental combo (on the visible board; the AI does not act on any more than what is currently in play, nor does it know the outcome of random effects), it will probably rank that as the number one move to do; the move with the best immediate effect. The AI, like a player, ranks vertical combos and skull combos highly.
Now, let's assume that the AI has calculated a list of eight valid moves, and ranked them on the immediate bonuses. The move that it selects is random and determined by the difficulty of the monster you're fighting. If you're in the early game and fighting a weak monster, the AI will select from the lowest 50% ranked moves. If you're fighting the end boss, the AI will select the top ranked move every turn.
Accusations of cheating come from a weak monster selecting a three-combo over an obvious five-combo and getting a cascade. That is not cheating; it is simply the AI ranking its moves, disregarding the five-combo due to monster difficulty then getting a lucky outcome. It can also happen against a higher-level where there is a six-combo, two three-elemental combos and a three-skull combo. In this case, the AI could draw from the top 50% of moves, and the three-skull combo would then be a possible move.
This is taken from the AI programmer for Puzzle Quest. My own words, but the information should be sound. Puzzle Quest does not cheat. Such accusations are merely an unpleasant side-effect of a game largely determined by random chance and confirmation bias.
Mumblyfish on
0
GoslingLooking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, ProbablyWatertown, WIRegistered Userregular
edited January 2008
The big mistake of Puzzle Quest is not making the new pieces random, and making it so the AI knows what's going to drop in. If the AI were to play a perfect board from what it sees in front of it, yet be capable of getting unlucky on the cascades, nobody would have a problem. The opening is at least there for the player. But when Bejeweled turns into Simon in overdrive, there's a problem.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
The damn starcraft AI. It doesn't cheat (Well, it does in the campaign missions where it starts with a full base already set up and you just get your main building and some workers), but it just sets up inhumanly fast. You're still working on mining some crystals, maybe building some barracks, and suddenly 15 marines rush in and massacre your whole base. If you somehow survive that, a minute later a wave of 30 will hit you. It's possible to counter it, but it just does the same thing EVERY time, so every game is a rush to get some units up just to survive the AI's initial waves.
Plus, it knows where you are without exploring. On a map with 16 possible spawn points and 2 players, that's completely cheating.
The big mistake of Puzzle Quest is not making the new pieces random, and making it so the AI knows what's going to drop in. If the AI were to play a perfect board from what it sees in front of it, yet be capable of getting unlucky on the cascades, nobody would have a problem. The opening is at least there for the player. But when Bejeweled turns into Simon in overdrive, there's a problem.
You only remember the times when the AI gets lucky; you never remember the other 95% of the time when everything goes normally, or when you yourself get lucky (or you just assume this is due to your mad skillz).
Re boards being the same on the DS version: That only happens under certain certain conditions -- If I remember correctly, the first board will not be randomly generated after you load a game. Most of the time, however, they should be different.
Posts
I'll also agree with Civ in general for having stupid in large amounts. Seeing my newly traded tech showing up at my doorstep 3 turns later made me so angry. If not for Test of Time I'd have probably never given the series any real chance.
What disappointed me about those fights was the fact that it wasn't like playing against someone. The computer was perfect unless you used a power against them. Not to mention some of the power ups were incredibly underpowered. The battle mode against someone is fun, against the comp, not so much.
And once you barricade them in with awesome space stations then they don't even notice and then just wait to be destroyed.
Stupid AI.
GalCiv... now that was AI. So much awesome.
You would hide behind a box to reload and five grenades would land at the same point next to you from five different directions.
...
Yup, still funny
I am a freaking nerd.
because it makes sense.
also, computer getting insane combos /= the player sucking.
not saying that it's cheating but please, don't act like it's a ridiculous assumption.
thats funny because i beat the game 100%
its just the game is so fucking hard for anyone under level 20.
also i've been beaten by an enemy ai by the third turn.
that shit is gay.
Also fuck Total war, The rebellions are ridiculous even on normal difficulty every province seems to rebel after you get so big, for no good reason.
Depends on with version. It sounded like the DS version had a ton more glitchery then the 360 version did. That being said, my strong troll ring and erik's bow are totally not cheating. Oh sure I gain 3 health each one of my turns that I have +9 blue mana but thats not cheating at all. And using stun? Instant +6 heal there.
After the 19th time it passes up a 4 of a kind to match a three of a kind and gets the bonus turn thanks to its stats, you start getting suspicious.
This is the big thing right here. It's moves are generally intelligent, and the only time it does something seemingly stupid is when it results in a huge combo/bonus/etc. that it shouldn't be able to predict (unless it's cheating).
Also, Red Alert. I was playing a skirmish as Allies against a Soviet CPU player, and I'd just finished wiping them off the map save for a few infantry in the corner. After a few minutes, lo and behold, a MCV rolls into their starting area from off the map and begins building a new base.
Oh, and I'll throw in another chip for the Civ series. Most memorably Civ 3, where the AI would know the exact location of the weak points in your defenses. If you had an undefended city at the center of your empire, the CPU would always know this and send units there. Civ 3 and 4 AI also had the infuriating behavior of sending settlers into the tiny gaps in your culture coverage.
The bigger one is when it passes up a 4 of a kind for a 3 of a kind, which then coincidentally drops pieces (from off the board) that create a chain of 6 lines (or else drops a charge skull into the perfect spot to do 40 damage)
Seriously, F-Zero GX did it better than any game before or since. The AI racers were brutally efficient gods of speed, but they didn't get a boost just because I was ahead of them. If I took the lead I kept it unless I screwed up. Also none of this "Whichever AI ranks highest the first race will always win... EVERY time... regardless of how badly it gets screwed over during the race" crap from Mario Kart. Seriously, that bullshit is just lazy.
Also Dark Bots. That's just cheating.
twitch.tv/Taramoor
@TaramoorPlays
Taramoor on Youtube
O_o Freaky..I've never run into that one, and I'm the kinda guy that leaves one enemy ore truck alive so I can sprawl a huge base across the entire map.
One thing that annoyed me in Tiberian Sun, playing against the NOD meant you had to pave and wall in your base or else you'll get a burrowing apc engineer rush. Quite a few times they captured and sold half my base before I could get the defenses up fast enough.
That's exactly how it worked in Mario Kart DS, too.
Not true. The guy who wrote the computer AI went on record on their forums saying so. I'm inclined to believe him.
Did you know that's a known bug (the layout being the same) in the DS version?
(Still a rad game)
Evil AI! Also, yes, Puzzle Quest cheats like buggery.
I did not, and should remind everyone that my complaints are of course specifically about the DS version.
Still, that being a bug, makes you wonder how thoroughly this game was tested before release. Or if it was even turned on at all before the green light.
Given that it's just mimicing what human players would do, that'd probably be an example of good AI.
It's even WORSE in arcade style racers like Mario Kart or Excite Truck. They'll outrun you without a boot, or they'll just go balls-out racing when you have to dick around doing tricks and taking the long way to wrack up points (that still won't matter unless you still manage to win the race).
Then, depending on the difficulty it will make a move. In Hard difficulty, there is a 90% chance it will take the move it registers as being 'best'. I believe in normal it's a 50% chance, with the remainder being split up amongst all other available moves.
Platinum FC: 2880 3245 5111
Brilliant game, but that pissed me off no end.
You are correct. The computer doesn't always choose the "best" move because it's programmed to overlook the best ones on certain difficulty levels, just as a human might overlook a good or "best" move simply because...well, they're human and make mistakes. That doesn't represent bad, spotty, or cheating a.i. - it just means that it's not meant to always choose the best move.
As for you, unless you're crashing through half the race, the same applies to you. Everyone, you included, is almost guaranteed to cross the finish line within five seconds of one another.
The Puzzle Quest AI works thus: It will evaluate all valid moves and rank them on their immediate effect. Say, if it can get a vertical 4-of-a-kind that will add a three-gem elemental combo (on the visible board; the AI does not act on any more than what is currently in play, nor does it know the outcome of random effects), it will probably rank that as the number one move to do; the move with the best immediate effect. The AI, like a player, ranks vertical combos and skull combos highly.
Now, let's assume that the AI has calculated a list of eight valid moves, and ranked them on the immediate bonuses. The move that it selects is random and determined by the difficulty of the monster you're fighting. If you're in the early game and fighting a weak monster, the AI will select from the lowest 50% ranked moves. If you're fighting the end boss, the AI will select the top ranked move every turn.
Accusations of cheating come from a weak monster selecting a three-combo over an obvious five-combo and getting a cascade. That is not cheating; it is simply the AI ranking its moves, disregarding the five-combo due to monster difficulty then getting a lucky outcome. It can also happen against a higher-level where there is a six-combo, two three-elemental combos and a three-skull combo. In this case, the AI could draw from the top 50% of moves, and the three-skull combo would then be a possible move.
This is taken from the AI programmer for Puzzle Quest. My own words, but the information should be sound. Puzzle Quest does not cheat. Such accusations are merely an unpleasant side-effect of a game largely determined by random chance and confirmation bias.
I honestly find the AI in Puzzle Quest too easy. They don't seem to plan ahead.
Plus, it knows where you are without exploring. On a map with 16 possible spawn points and 2 players, that's completely cheating.
You only remember the times when the AI gets lucky; you never remember the other 95% of the time when everything goes normally, or when you yourself get lucky (or you just assume this is due to your mad skillz).
Re boards being the same on the DS version: That only happens under certain certain conditions -- If I remember correctly, the first board will not be randomly generated after you load a game. Most of the time, however, they should be different.
He can't lie? It's not exactly good for business to admit your AI is a cheating son of a bitch. Because it is.