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Xbox Live vs PSN vs Nintendo Wifi - a civil discussion
TheSonicRetard
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
so there have been small xbox live and psn discussions popping up all over the forum lately, largely resulting in flame wars because people who are ignorant of rival online networks make sweeping generalizations or flat out haven't experienced them. I had a long post typed out in another topic discussing the current state of PSN, but then firefox crashed and lost everything I was going to say. But maybe it was for the best - such a post would have been wasted on a small topic and wouldn't have gotten any sort of discussion going.
Before we start talking, I'd like to say keep this civil. If you're coming in to bitch about how xbox live sucks because it's been down, go away. if you're coming in to bitch about how PSN sucks complete ass compared to Xbox live, go away. We've all heard those arguments before ("OMG YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR XBOX LIVE" and "BUT PSN DOESN'T HAVE THESE FEATURES OF XBOX LIVE") so save your breath. Slamming one person's online network isn't going to make them go "holy shit you're right, my choice sucks I'm switching to game machine Y." Lets keep it civil, and let's honestly talk about the choices of online networks out there for gaming.
And also, please let's leave the PC out of this. I'll go ahead and say it - the diversity and technical advancements of the PC architecture means that it will always have the supreme online potential if you're willing to look for it. Some people aren't willing to look for it, and consider it sub par, while some are and consider it the bees knees. In any case, everyone has to agree (or be an idiot otherwise) tha given the right work PC online gaming can be holy fucking awesome. So lets not even go there - it can rule, alright?
Now then, I guess I should give my perspective on the way things are going. For reference, I have all 5 current gen systems - the Wii, the DS, the PS3, the 360, and the PSP. All have online functionality to some degree. I got my DS first, back in 2005 by winning it from etoychest in a contest. I got Mario Kart DS shortly and that was my first experience with nintendo wifi. I got a PSP for christmas that year, along with Socom, which is online enabled. I bought my 360 next, in September of 2006. I had Xbox Live on the oxbox, and I fucking hated it. I hardly ever used it, and most of the time, I flat out ignored it. But since I had it at the time, I went ahead and migrated it over to the 360. I got my wii for christmas in 2006. Finally, I just got a PS3 for christmas a few weeks ago with CoD4, UT3, and Warhawk to shape my opinion of it's online experience.
Lets start by explaining each online system one by one:
Xbox Live
Unlike the original Xbox, the 360 seems to have been designed to revolve around Xbox live. The original Xbox OS tucked xbox live deep away. It was buried in menus. By contrast, Xbox 360's OS has several features prominently displayed once you power on the system. The main game launch pad, seen above, integrates many features of Xbox Live. First of all, your console creates a profile for you - you make a quick online profile, and it's included on every 360. Every 360 can view every other 360's profile online, even if you don't subscribe to Live. for the sake of clarity, we're going to assume I'm talking about Xbox Live Gold Membership from this point on when I speak about live.
Now, this console integration is precisely what makes xbox live so great. where as, previously, online game features were varied from game to game, having xbox live be central to the 360 platform means that certain features are unified. Previously, online game experiences varied greatly from game to game. Alien Front Online on the dreamcast allowed for people to chat using a mic, but that didn't mean you could chat with people using a mic in every game. For example, Quake 3 didn't support any sort of chat. These features are built into the 360, as a part of live. Want to send a voice message to someone? Go to the friends blade, find your friend, and send a voice message. Want to find a friend, period? You can see everyone.
Xbox live features a central server for communication, so communication can be seen across all xbox live games. Play Bioshock (a game with no xbox live integration) and you can still send a message to someone playing halo 3, and it's just as easy to receive it. this is because the integration goes beyond just the dash board - pressing the central Xbox button on your 360 controller brings up a portable, smaller version of the dashboard seen above, like so:
What's so great about it is that it means at all times, across all games, you can access any friend. It makes setting up a game so easy. Find someone you like in Gears of war? in the middle of the game, press the xbox button, go to the friends panel, find the guy, choose add to friends. Then pop in halo 3, and bam, the same friend can get invited, in game, into your halo 3 clan. It makes organization so easy, and really feels like you're crafting an in-game community.
Beyond that, features get integrated across games. Want to mute that annoying asshole in halo 3? it's not a function of halo 3, it's a function of your console. Go to xbox live, and choose to mute this guy. It's great, and he stays muted across all games.
As for the actual online gaming - it's a mix of peer to peer and server central gaming. while all xbox live functions are pushed to a central server, actual online gaming is often peer to peer. Some see this as a down side, but it can be viewed as a positive. Because the games are peer to peer, for example, a game will never "stop" being online. Take Crimson Skies for example - you can still boot it up and go online. Compared to EA games, which use central servers and are routinely taken down, this seems like a blessing. This is the reason why all live titles still work, while some older games, like MGS3:S no longer function online - their servers cost too much to maintain.
Now, weather you feel these features warrant the price tag is a different story, but speaking from a purely game-centric perspective, this is by far the best online option available for console gamers.
Playstation Network
The PSP and PS3 share a network, called the Playstation network, or PSN for short. They also share the same style OS - called the Cross media Bar (or XMB for short). The picture above is the current XMB. Whenever you power on the PSP or PS3, you're greeted by the XMB, and by pressing left or right you can access different groups of options, like video, audio, games, or PSN in recent updates. In this way, it integrates into the console, but certainly doesn't feel as though XMB was built around PSN like Xbox Live feels.
The current XMB tab for PSN is actually pretty fleshed out, contrary to popular belief. From within the XMB, you have access to many of the same features you have in Xbox live. You can see players from any recently played game in the "Players Met" option, which lets you befriend players you found online. Friends will appear at the bottom of the list with their name, icon, current game playing, and status, all of which are changeable. Selecting a player offers up a myriad of options - you can send a text message, send a voice message, de-friend them, block them, and so forth. There is a unified block list, and while I'm not quite certain how it functions (since I haven't actually blocked anyone) I assume a blocked friend will be avoided in online gaming. You can also start a chat room, where people can come in and chat with voice or text messages, which is nice for planning. And, of course, you have a central mail box.
PSN, like Xbox Live, connects to it's own central server to status updates, so you can see people's online activity across various games. Which means that, even if I am not playing warhawk, I can still see someone playing warhawk on my friends list.
Voice functions are built into the PS3 and PSP under the accessory -> audio accessory options. From here you can connect a blue tooth headset to work in virtually any PSN game.
However, while XMB appears to rival Xbox Live in features when in the XMB OS, there are several draw backs. First and foremost, you cannot block another players communication. This is, for me at least, the biggest draw back. I have searched and found no way to mute a player from PSN.
The second, and more important drawback is that it's currently IMPOSSIBLE to access the XMB from within a game. This isn't to say that it's completely hidden. Much like Xbox Live, when someone sends you a message or comes online or goes offline or does anything, PSN will inform you. A little box appears in the upper right hand corner of the screen saying "ThePerfectK went offline" or "Message Received from ThePerfectK" or "ThePerfectK wants to be your friend." You simply cannot do anything from within PSN about these messages, though.
Say I come online and see my friend playing warhawk. I send him a message saying "hey, lets play together." He sees a message has been sent by me from within warhawk, but cannot actually see the message. To view it, he must quit the game, return to the XMB OS, go to the friends tab, open his inbox, and read my message. I've had this happen to me several times, and it's really annoying when you leave the game to see someone wants to play with you, and the person who sent the message has already went to play the game. Simply put, communication when within games at this point is really sub par.
There is a silver lining, though. Sony reportedly knows that this sucks, and is working on XMB support from within game. Currently when you press the PS button (or menu button on the PSP) you get a gray window with 2-4 options, ranging from "quit game" to "turn off system" to "turn off controller" to "close menu." Eventually, pressing the PS button (or menu button on the PSP) will bring up the XMB OS and you'll be able to send messages and see friends. You can already do this in movies, and it works really well.
Also on the horizon is playstation Home, but that's a whole other beast which we should know more about in... about 10 hours. So I'll with hold opinions on that (although some people are already in the beta).
Actual online play on PSN is handled through a mixture of central servers or Peer to Peer, depending on the game. Call of Duty 4, for example, uses peer to peer. One person is actually the host. Most sony published/developed games support sony central servers, however. Warhawk, for example, lets you choose between either peer to peer, or joining a central sony server. In this, we get the best of both worlds - the game will always work, but for the time there are central servers, we can experience a much smoother online experience. The actual online feature set varies largely from game to game, however. Adding friends to a game is easy in Warhawk, but much trickier in CoD4.
Nintendo Wifi
Despite having the most time with Nintendo Wifi, I actually have used it the least, which is why this section will be shorter. I have yet to experience any online gameplay on the wii, in fact, so all my impressions come from the DS, and 2 games in specific at that - Mario Kart DS and Metroid Prime Hunters. And, at risk of violating the rules I set forth in the OP, I'll say that my experiences with nintendo wifi have left me very dissatisfied. While actually getting online to play is relatively simple, features are simply not unified in any way with nintendo.
Some games, like brawl (featured above) seem to have wonderfully fleshed out wifi service, with feature sets that rival even the best on xbox live (like halo 3), but some games (like mario kart) are so under developed that it made me feel like it wasn't worth bothering. There is little sense of community because you have to build one up per game. There's no unifying network under the hood, despite parts of one being in place on the wii. My friends list on mario kart DS, for example, is completely separate from my friends list on metroid prime. While PSN and Xbox live users can put their gamertag or PSN ID in their sigs on this forum, Nintendo Wifi users are forced to list out dozens of Wifi Friend codes per game.
In their defense, this is basically nintendo's first go at an online network, while Microsoft is in it's second generation (and so is sony to a degree). And I've heard reports that, in certain games, your friends code on the wii system is used as your friends code in game (mario strikes does this, right?) and if that's true it's a massive step forward. But even then, it's missing a lot of features - at the very least every feature the PSN is missing. But it's a work in progress and seems to be getting better. Perhaps nintendo will use brawl's online features as a standard for all further online games.
Xbox Live Arcade, Playstation Store, WiiWare/Virtual Console
What can I say? They all rock and work in basically the same way. Either way you're gonna get some nice demos, some cool original games, some old classic games, and the occasional movie. Again, nintendo seems a little lacking in the original content and movie sections (only 1 demo/movie - for metroid prime 3) but they more than make up for it with their robust catalog of classic games.
So those are the low downs on current options for online gaming if you're a console owner. Hopefully everyone is a little more educated on what each console offers and we can sit down and have a nice, civil discussion on the state of online gaming, without shitting up other topics.
Edit: And if someone who's more versed in nintendo wifi wouldn't mind giving their impressions on the state of nintendo online, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Before we start talking, I'd like to say keep this civil. If you're coming in to bitch about how xbox live sucks because it's been down, go away. if you're coming in to bitch about how PSN sucks complete ass compared to Xbox live, go away. We've all heard those arguments before ("OMG YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR XBOX LIVE" and "BUT PSN DOESN'T HAVE THESE FEATURES OF XBOX LIVE") so save your breath. Slamming one person's online network isn't going to make them go "holy shit you're right, my choice sucks I'm switching to game machine Y." Lets keep it civil, and let's honestly talk about the choices of online networks out there for gaming.
And also, please let's leave the PC out of this. I'll go ahead and say it - the diversity and technical advancements of the PC architecture means that it will always have the supreme online potential if you're willing to look for it. Some people aren't willing to look for it, and consider it sub par, while some are and consider it the bees knees. In any case, everyone has to agree (or be an idiot otherwise) tha given the right work PC online gaming can be holy fucking awesome. So lets not even go there - it can rule, alright?
Now then, I guess I should give my perspective on the way things are going. For reference, I have all 5 current gen systems - the Wii, the DS, the PS3, the 360, and the PSP. All have online functionality to some degree. I got my DS first, back in 2005 by winning it from etoychest in a contest. I got Mario Kart DS shortly and that was my first experience with nintendo wifi. I got a PSP for christmas that year, along with Socom, which is online enabled. I bought my 360 next, in September of 2006. I had Xbox Live on the oxbox, and I fucking hated it. I hardly ever used it, and most of the time, I flat out ignored it. But since I had it at the time, I went ahead and migrated it over to the 360. I got my wii for christmas in 2006. Finally, I just got a PS3 for christmas a few weeks ago with CoD4, UT3, and Warhawk to shape my opinion of it's online experience.
Lets start by explaining each online system one by one:
Xbox Live
Unlike the original Xbox, the 360 seems to have been designed to revolve around Xbox live. The original Xbox OS tucked xbox live deep away. It was buried in menus. By contrast, Xbox 360's OS has several features prominently displayed once you power on the system. The main game launch pad, seen above, integrates many features of Xbox Live. First of all, your console creates a profile for you - you make a quick online profile, and it's included on every 360. Every 360 can view every other 360's profile online, even if you don't subscribe to Live. for the sake of clarity, we're going to assume I'm talking about Xbox Live Gold Membership from this point on when I speak about live.
Now, this console integration is precisely what makes xbox live so great. where as, previously, online game features were varied from game to game, having xbox live be central to the 360 platform means that certain features are unified. Previously, online game experiences varied greatly from game to game. Alien Front Online on the dreamcast allowed for people to chat using a mic, but that didn't mean you could chat with people using a mic in every game. For example, Quake 3 didn't support any sort of chat. These features are built into the 360, as a part of live. Want to send a voice message to someone? Go to the friends blade, find your friend, and send a voice message. Want to find a friend, period? You can see everyone.
Xbox live features a central server for communication, so communication can be seen across all xbox live games. Play Bioshock (a game with no xbox live integration) and you can still send a message to someone playing halo 3, and it's just as easy to receive it. this is because the integration goes beyond just the dash board - pressing the central Xbox button on your 360 controller brings up a portable, smaller version of the dashboard seen above, like so:
What's so great about it is that it means at all times, across all games, you can access any friend. It makes setting up a game so easy. Find someone you like in Gears of war? in the middle of the game, press the xbox button, go to the friends panel, find the guy, choose add to friends. Then pop in halo 3, and bam, the same friend can get invited, in game, into your halo 3 clan. It makes organization so easy, and really feels like you're crafting an in-game community.
Beyond that, features get integrated across games. Want to mute that annoying asshole in halo 3? it's not a function of halo 3, it's a function of your console. Go to xbox live, and choose to mute this guy. It's great, and he stays muted across all games.
As for the actual online gaming - it's a mix of peer to peer and server central gaming. while all xbox live functions are pushed to a central server, actual online gaming is often peer to peer. Some see this as a down side, but it can be viewed as a positive. Because the games are peer to peer, for example, a game will never "stop" being online. Take Crimson Skies for example - you can still boot it up and go online. Compared to EA games, which use central servers and are routinely taken down, this seems like a blessing. This is the reason why all live titles still work, while some older games, like MGS3:S no longer function online - their servers cost too much to maintain.
Now, weather you feel these features warrant the price tag is a different story, but speaking from a purely game-centric perspective, this is by far the best online option available for console gamers.
Playstation Network
The PSP and PS3 share a network, called the Playstation network, or PSN for short. They also share the same style OS - called the Cross media Bar (or XMB for short). The picture above is the current XMB. Whenever you power on the PSP or PS3, you're greeted by the XMB, and by pressing left or right you can access different groups of options, like video, audio, games, or PSN in recent updates. In this way, it integrates into the console, but certainly doesn't feel as though XMB was built around PSN like Xbox Live feels.
The current XMB tab for PSN is actually pretty fleshed out, contrary to popular belief. From within the XMB, you have access to many of the same features you have in Xbox live. You can see players from any recently played game in the "Players Met" option, which lets you befriend players you found online. Friends will appear at the bottom of the list with their name, icon, current game playing, and status, all of which are changeable. Selecting a player offers up a myriad of options - you can send a text message, send a voice message, de-friend them, block them, and so forth. There is a unified block list, and while I'm not quite certain how it functions (since I haven't actually blocked anyone) I assume a blocked friend will be avoided in online gaming. You can also start a chat room, where people can come in and chat with voice or text messages, which is nice for planning. And, of course, you have a central mail box.
PSN, like Xbox Live, connects to it's own central server to status updates, so you can see people's online activity across various games. Which means that, even if I am not playing warhawk, I can still see someone playing warhawk on my friends list.
Voice functions are built into the PS3 and PSP under the accessory -> audio accessory options. From here you can connect a blue tooth headset to work in virtually any PSN game.
However, while XMB appears to rival Xbox Live in features when in the XMB OS, there are several draw backs. First and foremost, you cannot block another players communication. This is, for me at least, the biggest draw back. I have searched and found no way to mute a player from PSN.
The second, and more important drawback is that it's currently IMPOSSIBLE to access the XMB from within a game. This isn't to say that it's completely hidden. Much like Xbox Live, when someone sends you a message or comes online or goes offline or does anything, PSN will inform you. A little box appears in the upper right hand corner of the screen saying "ThePerfectK went offline" or "Message Received from ThePerfectK" or "ThePerfectK wants to be your friend." You simply cannot do anything from within PSN about these messages, though.
Say I come online and see my friend playing warhawk. I send him a message saying "hey, lets play together." He sees a message has been sent by me from within warhawk, but cannot actually see the message. To view it, he must quit the game, return to the XMB OS, go to the friends tab, open his inbox, and read my message. I've had this happen to me several times, and it's really annoying when you leave the game to see someone wants to play with you, and the person who sent the message has already went to play the game. Simply put, communication when within games at this point is really sub par.
There is a silver lining, though. Sony reportedly knows that this sucks, and is working on XMB support from within game. Currently when you press the PS button (or menu button on the PSP) you get a gray window with 2-4 options, ranging from "quit game" to "turn off system" to "turn off controller" to "close menu." Eventually, pressing the PS button (or menu button on the PSP) will bring up the XMB OS and you'll be able to send messages and see friends. You can already do this in movies, and it works really well.
Also on the horizon is playstation Home, but that's a whole other beast which we should know more about in... about 10 hours. So I'll with hold opinions on that (although some people are already in the beta).
Actual online play on PSN is handled through a mixture of central servers or Peer to Peer, depending on the game. Call of Duty 4, for example, uses peer to peer. One person is actually the host. Most sony published/developed games support sony central servers, however. Warhawk, for example, lets you choose between either peer to peer, or joining a central sony server. In this, we get the best of both worlds - the game will always work, but for the time there are central servers, we can experience a much smoother online experience. The actual online feature set varies largely from game to game, however. Adding friends to a game is easy in Warhawk, but much trickier in CoD4.
Nintendo Wifi
Despite having the most time with Nintendo Wifi, I actually have used it the least, which is why this section will be shorter. I have yet to experience any online gameplay on the wii, in fact, so all my impressions come from the DS, and 2 games in specific at that - Mario Kart DS and Metroid Prime Hunters. And, at risk of violating the rules I set forth in the OP, I'll say that my experiences with nintendo wifi have left me very dissatisfied. While actually getting online to play is relatively simple, features are simply not unified in any way with nintendo.
Some games, like brawl (featured above) seem to have wonderfully fleshed out wifi service, with feature sets that rival even the best on xbox live (like halo 3), but some games (like mario kart) are so under developed that it made me feel like it wasn't worth bothering. There is little sense of community because you have to build one up per game. There's no unifying network under the hood, despite parts of one being in place on the wii. My friends list on mario kart DS, for example, is completely separate from my friends list on metroid prime. While PSN and Xbox live users can put their gamertag or PSN ID in their sigs on this forum, Nintendo Wifi users are forced to list out dozens of Wifi Friend codes per game.
In their defense, this is basically nintendo's first go at an online network, while Microsoft is in it's second generation (and so is sony to a degree). And I've heard reports that, in certain games, your friends code on the wii system is used as your friends code in game (mario strikes does this, right?) and if that's true it's a massive step forward. But even then, it's missing a lot of features - at the very least every feature the PSN is missing. But it's a work in progress and seems to be getting better. Perhaps nintendo will use brawl's online features as a standard for all further online games.
Xbox Live Arcade, Playstation Store, WiiWare/Virtual Console
What can I say? They all rock and work in basically the same way. Either way you're gonna get some nice demos, some cool original games, some old classic games, and the occasional movie. Again, nintendo seems a little lacking in the original content and movie sections (only 1 demo/movie - for metroid prime 3) but they more than make up for it with their robust catalog of classic games.
So those are the low downs on current options for online gaming if you're a console owner. Hopefully everyone is a little more educated on what each console offers and we can sit down and have a nice, civil discussion on the state of online gaming, without shitting up other topics.
Edit: And if someone who's more versed in nintendo wifi wouldn't mind giving their impressions on the state of nintendo online, I'd greatly appreciate it.
TheSonicRetard on
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imagine playing a game (like flow in that screenshot) and pressing the PS button. the entire XMB simply pops up and thus, you'd have access to all your friends list features as in the image in my OP.
Of the games I own? Mario Kart DS and Metroid Prime Hunters.
EDIT: both of which are among the oldest nintendo online experiences to date.
Humour aside, Nintendo have a long way to come if they ever want to be on an equal level with Live or PSN. The current system they use on the Wii and DS is pitiful at best and it is quite obvious that 'just enough' is good enough for them when it comes to online gaming. It's a pity too, since the first time I used live I couldn't believe how "poor man" the wii connect system felt and I hate having to use it now. Seriously, individual friends codes for each game, even though each Wii has its own friend code already? Bwah?
This thread is pretty interesting - the only thing I'd add to the 360 part is that you can create a voice chat between people, which then continues while you play a game (independent of whether the game has multiplayer or you're playing together)... so you can terrify your friends while they play bioshock, for example.
Yeah, pretty much any feature found in PSN or nintendo wifi is in Xbox live.
I made this thread because it seems like a lot of people know that PSN isn't as great as Xbox live, and they know what xbox live is, but they don't know what PSN is. Reading people's opinions of playstation online right now, a lot of people have no clue what it is outside of "shitty." I'll admit that, even though I had a PSP, until I got a PS3 I didn't know too much about PSN. it's surprisingly a lot better than I had assumed.
I was hesitant about putting in Nintendo Wifi because it seems like a WIP to me, but I figured it'd be best not to leave anyone out.
I must say, I'm nearing purchasing a PS3 but there's just a couple of hurdles Sony needs to hobble over [for me].
Off the top of my head I can name Mario Kart DS, Zelda: PH, Pokémon, Metroid and Tetris.
I like that Pokémon has voice chat when playing with friends. Are there any other DS games with voice chat?
No clue. All I've heard is that they know it's a problem and are working on it.
The problem with Nintendo's online is just that they don't trust it yet, and they don't want to pony up any cash for servers or anything else. I mean, they tried online with the Famicom, Super Famicom, Super NES, the N64 (in Japan) and they've tried various substitues (like GBA -> Gamecube connectivity) and it's never panned out. Hell, they put out a broadband modem for the GC and I think there were two games that were actually online and maybe five that had LAN play.
There's also that age old quote from Iwata or Yamauchi or whoever: "I don't think people should have to pay to play a game after they've already purchased it." Which puts services as robust as Xbox Live just out in the cold.
Nintendo will get online eventually, but I don't think we'll ever see a truly robust online service. I also don't see friend codes going away since Nintendo doesn't want anything like that Halo stalker to happen. It's stuff like that that forces me to sit through three minutes of "Watch out for seizures!" and "Make sure you aren't going to swing the Wii Remote into the TV while playing Fire Emblem" crap.
sigh.
I'm going to go play more SFII online on Xbox Live.
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I'd just like to start by saying that I've recently learned that the grand idea of unification of Xbox Live that I have always loved - the GamerTag system - is also its biggest downfall in that it is too inflexible with regards to user's circumstances. I am in a busy period right now so have let my membership lapse. It is originally an oXbox account. Now, under a 360 with a different credit card, it won't let me renew. I've let it go for the time being as there's no point anguishing over something I may not use for a few months. When the time comes though, I might have to start again. I haven't got much 360 content to speak of - it's more my vast friends list I am worried about losing - and my really nice GT name.
I have no experience with PSN DLC yet so I have no idea how content is protected to be used under only the machine/user account in which it was purchased.
+ Dedicated Servers
+ More players because of Dedicated servers
+ Working right now
+ Marketplace uses real money
- Marketplace makes you "add money to your wallet" and then spend it for some weird reason
- Can't invite friends
- Only like 4 good games online
- Only half the people have mics(this is constantly improving, best off in Warhawk)
XBL:
+ Can Invite friends, can chat with friends while playing games, can video chat with friends, can send picture messages
+ Live architecture is inherent to the machine, and thus inherent to the games
+ Tons of good games that are online
+ Marketplace has all sorts of goodies
+ Direct player evaluation and complaint system
- No one believes the evaluation/complaint system works(it does)
- Not working right now
- No Dedicated Servers for games,although oxbox did for UC2 and SCPT
- Less players in games bc everything's running on one guy's stupid weak-ass DSL host
Nintendo:
+ VC
- Everything else
I have nothing against live, I'm sorry but I don't want to pay for p2p connections. I hated it and never purchased it on the Xbox1. I think the two tier network is a good idea for people to be able to download patches but don't care about playing others online. I wouldn't mind paying for hosted servers, I would like it more if I could host a server. But I do have a slight PC bias there.
Just to note, you can send picture messages on PSN as well.
This does remind me that if you want an honest accounting, the 360's problem with Arcade purchases tied to your system ID, and the subsequent problems if you have to get a new system (with a new serial number) through a repair, are a pretty decent problem... hopefully it'll be fixed soon, but for now it kinda sucks
Online match-making, sending/taking of pictures, sending/taking of videos, a stage editor that allows the sending/downloading of user created stages, online co-op, the game will jump in as a fighter if an online opponent drops out of a match to allow uninterrupted play, live online streaming of other people's matches via SmashTV.
What sucks is all that effort will only be experienced on this one game. From here I actually starting writing about why the Nintendo WiFi is terrible but I think we all know that. It is simply irritating to know they have the tools and talent to implement online structure if they want but they're too stubborn or still believe it's not viable yet.
I don't have a PSP or PS3 so I can't get into the whole Xbox Live vs. PSN debate which is where this thread will end up. However I do think Microsoft really nailed down Live this generation. The dashboard and the way everything is neatly tied together has set the standard.
As for the price vs. free bit, I'm a poor student so the price tag for Gold service hurts and I kinda hope as time goes on they drop / lower it. I know they won't. Right now I think the market has spoken. If people were really upset about paying they'd be more vocal about. It's not like Microsoft is twisting your arm to pay. As Sony (and some extent Nintendo) continues to develop their network that will force Microsoft to rethink their price structure and free online networking will just be another necessary component to any console. The competition isn't there yet so Microsoft gets to enjoy their advantage, plain and simple.
And it should be noted that their official take on XBLA content is that if you must get another system/transfer to a new HD/etc your content will always work when signed into Live. This is not even a true statement, as I can never play Puzzle Quest again since it will always show trial mode (I called in and they basically bribed me with points to just drop it). Other games show trial mode from time to time (Catan) but seem to be fixed if I go to the "unlock full version" link. It is a terrible system and really punishes the user for either having their system break or choosing to buy an Elite (both of which you would think Microsoft would be happy to help).
EDIT: Not trolling, but this should definitely be listed in any Live discussion, since XBLA is listed as one of the strengths.
Also, Nintendo has limited how many VC games you can have by not allowing you to run them off of a memory stick. Once again, I am guessing this is to combat piracy, but it also nearly punishes the user because they really enjoy the VC.
And PSN there is almost no one using mic's from my experience, even in Warhawk. I have trouble using the headset, but I have never used a bluetooth one with my phone before, so I think this may be my own fault.
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Oh, you mean like not letting me download demos until a week after release? Yeah, they would never do anything like that. :P
With regards to putting it "in your wallet" first, it's because there's a minimum purchase of £5, so if you buy something for £4.99 it charges you £5 and leaves 1p in your wallet. If the next purchase you make is £19.99 then you will be charged £19.98 on your card because you still have that penny in your wallet. It works and I MUCH prefer it to having to buy points.
The in games interface is much poorer (ie non-existant) though. It's a shame because overlaying the ps3 interface would be MUCH neater than blocking the screen with a giant blade.
As it is, they both do the job but I find the PS3 to have the more stylish (and easier to use) interface when not organising an online game.
With regards to online game performance, the free performance of the ps3 is JUST as good as the gold performance of the 360.
I'm actually not renewing my Gold subscription when it's up.
Then there's the Wii...well...it works, it's completely no-frills, but at least it works.
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Uh, I never said anything even remotely close to that.
It's the screenshot itself doing that. The XMB is completely and utterly user friendly and intuitive.
I'm also a graphic designer, and I think the XMB looks great. I think you just need a different screenshot.
So yeah it does have white text on black with a glow on the selected thing, but I think it works. And if you don't like it, the themes are very easily changed. I, personally, have a kickass user made Uncharted XMB theme going on mine.
I'm not insulting your intelligence, just covering bases, but you know the right hand side of the picture is part of XMB blown up, not actually part of the UI, right?
This is what XMB normally looks like:
I really liked it on the PSP, and I like it 10 times better on the PS3. It feels really sleek.
EDIT: Haha, we even used the same picture, from different sources. Weird.
EDIT DOS: Also, could you post a link to the uncharted theme? I'd like to try it out.
Can't speak for PSN, but I think I enjoy all the little quirks of Xbox Live more than Nintendo WiFi. Being able to download demos of both retail and online marketplace games is a huge plus as well. Plus the Achievements, Leaderboards, icons, and other things...
...it's not perfect, such as how easily you can lose your gamertag or the issue of moving from one country to another (as discussed elsewhere), but in basic practice, I like it best.
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Here
I'm not sure if that link works, as that's not specifically where I downloaded it. That's the one, though, and I like it better than the official Uncharted XMB theme.
To me it's the principle of the situation. I think of a demo as an advertisement, and I'm never happy when I have to shell out cash for advertisements. It's like buying a ticket to the movies and having to sit through ads. It just doesn't sit well with me.
Also, user-defined themes on PS3 are wonderful. I've got a Star Wars theme that I just can't get rid of, and it cracks me up when I see 360 exclusives as themes.
Finally, I am an idiot. Sorry for the misquote.
Not so. I haven't played it much so my memory is pretty hazy but you can access the XMB from the online menu in Resistance.
Anyway, since out of those five I've only really gone online with my PS3 (don't really go online with my PSP or DS), I'll only talk about it. I'm of the opinion that all the PS3 really needs is the in-game XMB. Hell, it doesn't even really have to be the XMB, just give me access to the Friends section of the XMB.
The PS Store is another matter though. While it's usable, I think they could've designed it a lot better. It's slow, it's unorganised, there's so much wasted space on screen and it doesn't even feel like it's a part of the PS3, it just feels like a stupid webpage.
I'm not so sure the PSP should be thrown into the same category as the PS3 though. The PSN isn't even really implemented into it, since it was released a couple of years before the PSN was even announced. There's a couple of games that use your PSN gamertag but otherwise, it's on its lonesome (though it's still much better than the PS2's online). And since the PSP doesn't have that much system memory, there's pretty much no way of including PSN support via a firmware update.
And small nitpick but it's 'whether', not 'weather'.
Echo: You've never even seen the XMB on the PSP? Wow. The screens in this thread aren't so good though, it's much better when you actually get to play around with it.
True, the principle stinks, but it could be worse, I figure.
I mean, what else do you really get when you go Gold? From what I've heard, not a whole lot. And the week delay only began recently, too, did it not?
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For the DS, I think the system is fine. Friend codes aren't the greatest way to handle things, but considering the system seemed to be built with no real consideration for online play I think it works pretty well. Sure, some games, such as Mario Kart, may as well not even be online with such a piss poor way of handling things you will also get games like Metroid Prime Hunters. It allows you to have a "Rivals" list, a whole bunch of gametypes, and even voice chat with friends in the lobbies. Hunters was really impressive with it's online options, and I hear there's some more current games that make use of NWC in a similar fashion. The NWC is also present in a whole ton of games, so it seems lik an actual feature and not just a service that one or two first party titles use.
Honestly, for a handheld, I think the NWC is pretty damn good, especially for Nintendo's first real online effort.
Now, as for the Wii...
I'm incredibly dissapointed with how the NWC works on the Wii. I'm not crazy about Friend Codes, but I'd be willing to live with it if we had one unified Friend Code for all games, and a single unified Friend List. So you can imagine how optimistic I was when I opened my Wii on launch day and found that the Wii DID have a single friend code and friends list! Too bad it's there only for show.
Games that don't allow direct online play don't use it, but games that have non-competitive online features do. Elebits and Metroid Prime 3 allow you to trade levels and friend vouchers using your system FC and friend list, but any game that allows you to actually play onlne (i.e. Mario Strikers Charged, Guitar Hero 3) force you to put up with the one-FC-per-game bullshit.
why even bother giving us the system code if all it's going to be used for is Mii swapping and level trading novelties? Why force us to use a different friend code for each game if the system has one built right into it? Nintendo really dropped the ball with the Wii's online system and it's too late for anything to be done about it now. I still use the service occasionally, but that doesn't stop it from sucking.
TL;DR - DS online = Very good for handheld. Wii Online = Terrible.
I'm not sure how to answer this without going into the details so I'll try to explain it well.
With most PS Store games you download (except for Warhawk), you can share it over 5 different users including your own one (a user is the profile you create on your PS3, not your PSN ID). Those 5 users can re-download it as many times as they like but if you've reached the limit and accidentally deleted your old account, you won't be able to re-download it anymore.
You may however be able to create a new profile which has the exact same name as the one you accidentally deleted and then use that to re-download it but I'm not entirely sure it'd work.
Just a quick note: I have no idea about Guitar Hero 3, but Mario Strikers Charged uses the Wii's Friend Code, not a unique one.
Just correcting this. You CAN have dedicated hosts on XBL. While most things on live are defined via a central framework, this is one area where it is not. If a game wants to have a central server, they need to program it in, just like the PSN does.
And that's the only thing limiting the number of players per game.
Personally I think they should add it to the standard and allow users to set up their own dedicated servers (a 360 that is set to dedicated host and no one actually uses it to play). Won't be as good as an officially dedicated server, but won't be prone to getting shut down in ~1-2 years after the game release either.