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Career In Music

Dom888Dom888 Registered User regular
edited January 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
Hi there (or wherever you happen to be standing),

I was curious if anyone here is well versed in the music industry and/or music in general.

I am a high school student (sophomore, to be exact) and I'm starting to become extremely interested in music. I've been taking band/Saxophone lessons since fifth grade under my current high school band director. However, as I said, my interest has not grown serious until just recently this year. Before, I just played a very out of tune Alto sax and held a passive attitude towards the class; since my interest has grown, I have learnt how to play Tenor and Baritone saxophones as well as piano and also a little bit of guitar.

However, I know no chords besides the very basic ones. I don't even know the names of chords or types of chords. I have no idea how artists choose a group of chords for a song, or how they know what chord goes into what and why; I also don't understand how they can make songs out of chords, when there are obviously individual notes.

My director keeps asking me what I plan on going to college for, and when I tell him I don't know, he tells me I'd make a good Music major. But I'm curious, from anyone with experience; where I am right now, am I well along or completely behind? Would I make a good music major, if I progress naturally in this field? I don't really see myself being good at much else; I'm not much of a people person (though I make friends easily and have many great ones, not to mention a fantastic and extremely loyal girlfriend), but I think I may also be strong in literature/writing or psychology. My director makes it sound so easy, too; He says he picked up the tuba around 5th grade, liked it, liked music, and stuck with it. Now he can make hundreds of dollars within an hour teaching at surrounding schools, not to mention writing music and field shows for other bands around the country.

What I'm asking is this: Is it foolish to follow a dream like this? I have no clue if I'd be good at any of it, not to mention whether or not I'd make a living from it.

Dom888 on

Posts

  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Look into getting private lessons from a good teacher, they will teach you all about the chords and scales and all that good stuff. Hell, ask your band instructor even, they would likely love to teach you. It's a lot of information at first, but should click for you pretty quickly.

    I played alto sax primarily along with a bit of tenor and had weekly private lessons from 5th grade up until I finished highschool. My teacher covered all of that stuff. I had trouble with it when she taught it, which I think was mostly because I didn't put the effort into learning the theory, but have recently been studying it since my alto is in the shop being cleaned up and I'll be picking up a guitar soon and I want to learn my theory this time around. Just from reading the stuff google pulls up it's all coming back pretty quickly and I'm getting it this time around.

    If you think you'll enjoy it, go for it. It is very rewarding and honestly, I believe anyone can be good at music as long as they put the effort into it.

    Jimmy King on
  • Dom888Dom888 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Thanks for the advice...I would ask my teacher, normally, but he teaches at 4 different high schools during the course of the day and has to teach at dozens of grammar schools in the area at different times of the week, so it's hard finding time to ask him a question...I will look into private lessons though, thank you.

    Dom888 on
  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Private lessons from a person who does that full time (and usually plays with a band or two that gets real gigs, too) is incredibly useful. It can get expensive, but is well worth it if that's what you want to do with your life. When I found my teacher I went to a local music store that rented out rooms to teachers and asked them about teachers (well, my mom did, I was in 5th grade after all).

    Jimmy King on
  • Dom888Dom888 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm sure my teacher knows a few places, he was talking about private lessons...musically, what do you do?

    Dom888 on
  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My teacher would assign me songs to play out of a book, usually the Charlie Parker Omnibook for the last few years of my lessons, which I would practice throughout the week and then she would listen to me play it during my lesson each week.

    She would help me with tone, keeping my embouchure good, breathing exercises to extend the time I could play without taking a breath and the amount of sound I could produce, overtone excercises and the altissimo register, all that technical stuff. She taught me scales, attempted to teach me all the music theory
    stuff I'm learning now... different modes of scales, etc.

    When I type it out here it doesn't sound like very much, but it was. We're talking almost 10 years of weekly 1 hour lessons plus playing for 1 or more hours per day.

    A private teacher will probably also be able to help you out on instrument purchases... better mouthpieces, new instruments, even better reeds for your saxes.

    Jimmy King on
  • Dom888Dom888 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I just go by what my teacher tells me...I use Van Doren size 3's, Rovner ligature, and a Selmer C mouthpiece (just got it the other day, actually, sounds fantastic). What I was asking, though, is what do you do, musically? Do you play in a band, or by yourself, or what exactly?

    Dom888 on
  • Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Oh, sorry, I thought you meant what is covered musically in private lessons specifically.

    Honestly, nothing anymore, which is why I stopped playing after I got out of highschool. I didn't have any way to really put the time I was spending practicing to use... not that highschool band and jazz band exactly made good use of my abilities.

    I'm going to start playing again because I miss it now. Perhaps I'll get involved with a band once I'm back up to speed on my playing, but I really don' t know right now. I just want to do something other than go to work, go to the gym, come home and play video games and then do it again the next day. I enjoyed playing music for years, have a couple of amazing saxophones, and a friend who's been playing guitar for around 20 years to get me going on the guitar. So that seems like a good idea.

    Jimmy King on
  • Dom888Dom888 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well I hope you do get back into it. Honestly, I love playing; Besides playing in the concert band, I do Competition (Marching band), Jazz Band, and Pep Band (rock band dealie for basketball games that needs me for Dave Matthews Band covers that I love doing). I have a couple method books lying around that I want to start practicing routinely, and I also want to fix my embouchure (I'm always a little sharp). I know it's probably a long shot off, but if you record anything or anything like that, tell me? I always like checking out original artists =D

    Dom888 on
  • YosemiteSamYosemiteSam Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Being into music and playing, maybe even for money, is great. But making a musician as a living is really really difficult. I don't know whether you're interested in writing your own music and playing that (like a rock kind of thing), being a session musician, or whatever, but it's extremely difficult regardless. If you want to be in a band, you're almost certainly not going to make much money at all (if even enough to live off of), plus you'll be lucky if anyone still wants to listen to you 5 years after you peak (and reaching that point itself will probably take at least 10 years of serious dedication).

    If you want to be a session musican, you can do it your whole life if you're extremely dedicated, but you're going to have to practice literally in the range of 5 to 10 hours a day for pretty much the rest of your life. Plus you'll get paid very little, you'll most often be playing music that you probably don't like, and you can lose a lot of your work at the drop of a hat if someone important doesn't like you or if you fuck up one important session.

    And regardless of what kind of musician you want to be, you're definitely going to spend the majority of your time doing things that are not at all cool or glamorous, be it practicing, playing for indfifferent audiences, travelling constantly, or whatever.

    I say this all as someone who's really into music (I play in three bands for fun, I write music every day, I play three instruments fairly well, I listen to like 2 or 3 hours of music every day) and has absolutely no intention of going into music as a profession. I know a pretty good number of professional musicians (somewhere between 10 and 20 session musicians, a few guys in rock bands), and it's really really hard to do. Not a lot of professional musicians I've met (particularly session musicians) reccommend it, it's not just shits and giggles by any means. A couple musicians have given me similar advice to what you hear people telling art students: if you can't imagine being anything other than a musician/if you have no choice but to be a musician/if you'd rather die than not be a musican, then you should be a professional musician. Otherwise it's just not worth it.

    I'm not trying to burst your musical bubble. Like I said, I'm still really into music as a hobby. I even gig a little bit, and that can be a fun way to make a little bit of extra money on top of your normal job if you see it as nothing more than that. It's really easy to make music a part of your life, and if you have some talent and some patience it's not very hard to be good enough to entertain your friends and have a lot of fun. Maybe you can even get good enough to make music that's really meaningful to you. But making music your entire life is a huge decision, and it's not just "Take some lessons and learn some chords and you'll be pulling in $50,000 a year in no time!" I know many incredibly talented musicians who are middle-aged and are barely making enough money to get by, and they aren't even particularly happy.

    YosemiteSam on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Remember that if you're doing it for a job, you're likely not worried so much about the theory, but about understanding the notes on the staff and translating that into your instrument's sounds. The music theory stuff will come in college since they'll be part of the class load, where you have fun putting together notes and chords and progressions without even touching your instrument (whee).

    If you're serious and committed, sure it's a job and a career. It's typically a lot of work -- note that your teacher, who, well, look what you said:
    I would ask my teacher, normally, but he teaches at 4 different high schools during the course of the day and has to teach at dozens of grammar schools in the area at different times of the week, so it's hard finding time to ask him a question

    He's making money and doing "cool things," because he's doing it non-stop. He seems to love it, so spending all this time teaching, driving, and traveling is what he likes to do. But it's not a normal "work 8:30-5 with a lunch, go home and spend time on my hobbies" type of job -- it'll be your life. If that sounds cool, awesome. And you can always get into other things later on if it's not your thing, or become a session musician to pay the bills while you work on other things.

    I would suggest a private teacher at least as a 2nd opinion on your skills, and if you really love it you'll strive to better yourself regardless of what that teacher says. Ultimately, the question about a career in music comes down to "what do you love about music?" What is it in the last year that's really changed your mind? Are you wowed by how it all works? Will you still be interested once you "get it" and can play well and understand how music "does its thing?"

    I know a surprising number of people who do music as either a job or a hobby, who aren't just "in a band," and they're all very devoted and hardworking people, very focused on making music no matter what the sacrifice they have to make in their time or where they have to live. They're really neat people, but I can't tell you that it's a walk in the park because it's not. It's not a "normal" career path in that you won't exactly get career counseling or internships.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • SoggychickenSoggychicken Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    First, understand that it will probably not be smooth sailing. Like many other people have commented, music is not one of the traditional career fields. You will need to be very self-motivated, entrepenural, and be willing to accept that you will probably have to work twice as hard as your friends in order to make a decent living. It will be extremely difficult to start your career, because you will be competing with many seasoned pros who have been doing it for a lot longer than you have. You will probably need a non-music job to pay the bills while you are looking for a steady gig. You will also need to practice your instrument for hours after you get home from those non-music jobs everyday to improve yourself. You will probably need to travel around quite a bit to get gigs, and that may strain relationships that you will have. And unfortunately, you may find yourself losing your passion for music once you are doing it for a job.

    If you are thinking playing classical saxophone as a professional, you may as well forget it. There are simply not enough demand out there for classical saxophonists for you to make it a career. Only a handful of symphonic works have parts for a saxophone. Military bands are always an option, but again, it is very competitive because the level is very good.

    If music education is what you're looking at, please make sure that you really like to teach. The burnout rate for music teachers is quite high. Keep in mind that you will be sitting in a very noisy environment for hours and hours 5 days a week. Running a private teaching studio is another option, but then your concern is how to distinguish yourself from the other teachers in your area and how to maintain enough students to make a decent living.

    I apologize for sounding so negative. I'm not trying to discourage you but that's the reality. Unfortunately, music schools across the country are graduating more music majors than there are job openings. High school teachers also have a habit of recommending students to go into music without giving them the whole story. I can not stress enough how competitive it is out there. If there is anything else you are interested in pursuing, I'd say you should consider those areas first. You can always return to music as a hobby at the end.

    If you are certain you want to pursue it, prepare to start working hard. Find a good private saxophone instructor and start taking some theory lessons. Keep up with the piano because that will be very helpful to you in the future. Practice practice and practice some more. You should also compete in local music festivals to gain experience.

    You still have a couple of years left in high school, so take some time to consider if this career is really for you.

    Soggychicken on
  • garroad_rangarroad_ran Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Quick reply because my eyes are hurting and I don't really feel like reading the whole thread. I will reiterate some of the advice I've gotten over the past few years:

    1. If you have anything else you can do, don't try to become a musician. If you have a backup plan, just go ahead and take it already.
    2. Don't be a dick.

    I'm currently finishing up a degree in Contemporary Jazz (I'm a guitar major) and a simultaneous Diploma from Canada's Humber College. I am a guitar player who makes his living teaching, working on cruise ships from time to time, and playing around town as much as possible. I also get bits of work recording band demos out of my home/portable studio, and I do a LOT of writing. I've written for everything from blues quartets to ska bands, small jazz combos and 20-piece big bands, and most recently I've had a work commissioned for a 35 piece brass band. I'm by no means a veteran on the music scene, nor am I even anyone you should listen to. Hell, I'm not even a real good musician.

    But though I've only recently started building this little career, I have had those two pieces of advice reaffirmed time and again, day after day.

    It -is- possible to make a living as a musician. If you feel it is truly what you need to pursue, then go ahead and give it everything you've got. It is truly a rewarding path to follow.

    garroad_ran on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    fuckin snaps. tripple post? what the hell?

    DarkSymphony on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    nothing to see here!

    DarkSymphony on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    funny thing is, I'm 25 now and by reading all the advice from all the posters above me and knowing a few people in the industry, I am inclined to agree, but at the same time....if everyone followed the advice of "if you have another option available, do that one instead" then you wouldn't have the Led Zepplin's or anything of the sort.

    At 25, I'm now going to going back to college in the fall to start with music classes and the like. Right now I'm getting private lessons (fuckin 45 bucks a damn hour :( ) and I couldn't be happier with pushing myself extremely hard to master my instrument. By no means am I amazing yet, but I practice 4+ hours a day, work, practice more, sleep, hang with friends, practice more....etc. I practice as much as I possibly can and I'm really happy to do so. If a day goes by where I don't put time into theory lesson or guitar practice, I feel like something is wrong.

    Yeah, maybe music won't be a career I go into, but god damn do I love it and my band agrees. I mean, it's like, you can't know if you'll make it as a band or do well as a teacher, or make a nice living with music as a career unless you try. I know it's cliche, but it's true.

    I mean shit, people are telling me "dude, you're 25? shit that's way to late to start thinking about music and bands and shit" fuck that shit. I love it and I'm going to try my hardest. At least then, I'll fucking know for sure. yaknow?

    DarkSymphony on
  • garroad_rangarroad_ran Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Heh, some people will tell you that starting so late will never get you anywhere. I remember my dad in particular being very adamant about the fact that all the great musicians started off really, really young.

    Yes, obviously starting at a young age helps, but then again, Wes Montgomery is one of the defining names in jazz guitar and the guy picked up the instrument when he was already married, had kids, and worked a day job. I think it's safe to say that everyone develops at their own pace, and even if you're not a pro level musician at 27, that doesn't mean that you won't make it by the time you're 30 or 40 or whenever. If you keep working at it, you'll make it.

    But that's exactly why I think the advice of "if you have another option, go for it" is so important. The percentage of people who just play music as a hobby and end up "making it" (I'm not even talking about making it big. I'm referring to basically just making a living out of it) is negligible. Survival as a musician means living from paycheque to paycheque, and never knowing if and when that next one is coming. It means it's very likely that at some point in your life, and probably more often than once, you'll find yourself literally without a penny. It means sleeping four hours a night and making it through the day on a candy bar and a cup of coffee.

    It's not a lifestyle that is for everyone. Even some of the best players out there will never become great musicians because they don't have what it takes to pull through all of that.

    Someone earlier mentioned taking lessons from a teacher who is active in the music scene, and I can't stress this enough. When I was preparing for my college auditions, most of my lessons consisted of me shooting the shit with my teacher. He'd spend an hour telling me stories about his career, and then I'd go home, and every time I couldn't believe the amount of insight I had gained for a mere $50. Being around experienced musicians is priceless.

    garroad_ran on
  • DarkSymphonyDarkSymphony Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    oh I agree with the statement that you should persue music while you have a job going, or a way to make a living while you try and make it. I feel that's very sound advice.

    I just hope, and pray for the love of fucking god....that being 25 (well I started when I was 16) won't be the reason I fail.

    DarkSymphony on
  • EggyToastEggyToast Jersey CityRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Age doesn't matter unless you're looking to do music that's generation specific. You can pick up and learn an instrument at 40 if you're motivated. You may not become a virtuoso but who cares?

    That goes for the OP, too -- you can definitely learn it well now, maintain some classes and playing in college, and pursue it later in life. You're not stuck never dealing with music if you decide to do something different while you're young.

    EggyToast on
    || Flickr — || PSN: EggyToast
  • thanimationsthanimations Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm probably a late on this, but here goes anyways.


    First, a warning. Like many technical careers, music takes a lot of work. Music majors put in a lot of hours, not just in practice rooms, but in classes, in ensembles, and studying. When you take a 3 credit course in college, that generally means that it's 3 hours a week. That's not how it works at most if not all music schools. You might have an ensemble that's 2 or 3 hours a couple days a week and get 1 credit out of it.

    I was going to be a music education major, before switching to journalism, and this was my first semester (and keep in mind I wasn't even in a studio, or the specialized master class for my instrument) broke down to: Mondays was an hour of music theory, and four hours of marching band (at my school, all music majors needed 2 semesters of marching band); Tuesdays and Thursdays was Harmony I and Sight Reading & Dictation (another theory class); Wednesday and Friday were another hour of Music Theory I, plus another four hours of marching band each day. Then on most Saturdays there was a game, which meant three hours for the game, and two hours of practice before the game. Keep in mind that I was just doing the basics to see if music education was for me, and that it didn't even include studio time, Piano I, practice room time, and potentially another ensemble (most people I knew took at least two ensembles a semester).

    The point of the above paragraph is to show you how much time you could be sinking into music. Obviously my experience is specific to one school, and results may differ elsewhere.

    The fact remains, though that if you want to pursue music as a career you need to get schooled. You're taking lessons, and that's good. You need to take some music theory, though, and try for any state competitions that you can. The goal is to practice and learn your instrument as well as you can, and being in a regional or state ensemble is a great way to see where your skill level is at, how well you audition, and how to play with musicians that are likely better than your high school (unless you go to a great music school already).

    One thing to think about is what do you want to do in music? Do you want to be an educator, or do you want to be a professional musician? If you want to be a musician, what kind of music do you want to play, and do you want to do studio work? Would you rather work behind the boards in a studio? The answers to these questions can help you figure out not only where to go to school but also what you'll need to focus on.

    Another thing is that sometimes (like in all professions) it isn't just what you know but who. If you want to be a music educator in your area, you should get to know the others. For whatever it is that you want to do, try and find other people already doing (and that are successful) and learn from them if you can.

    If I were you I'd probably do these steps (and obviously ask your teacher for more advice as well):

    1) Continue taking lessons
    2) Take theory classes
    3) Audition for ensembles above your local high school
    4) Attend any seminars that you can about your focus
    5) Visit any colleges or technical schools you think you might want to go to, and talk to the relevant studio professor

    thanimations on
  • garroad_rangarroad_ran Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Can I add

    6. Go out and see live music. Frequently.

    garroad_ran on
  • KhavallKhavall British ColumbiaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ok, I'm a little late here and most of my advice has been said, but as someone who is both a professional musician and a music major, I do have a reasonably good perspective on this.

    First off, I always make sure to give this little indication of what my typical day is, because I think some people have this idea of "Yeah I'm totally ready to do music full time" and they really mean they'll practice for maybe an hour a day and still get 8 hours of sleep per night.

    My typical day I'm working my day job as a copyist and going to classes from 8 'till 3:00-ish, with maybe a 15 minute lunch break in there. I go directly from there to play for 4-6 voice lessons, depending on the day, and then I go to rehearsals for a show choir who have, at great expense to them, hired me for the full semester. Once these rehearsals are done I head to rehearsals for whatever show I'm playing for/music directing for. This normally gets out around 11:00-ish, when for the most part I'm off for the day, unless I have some quick gig later. This is when I head home, practice anything I'll need in the next week or two, and then I normally have a meeting with my lyricist about our shows, clean up and work on scores, and normally check and send out mail about jobs in the future, from theaters, music directors, producers, whoever I can get a job with. I normally can get to sleep around 1:30-2:00 on a typical week-day. Saturdays I'm gig free so can sleep, catch up on homework, practice, maybe even relax some. Sundays I can practice in the morning and then I have a solid block of rehearsals from 2:00 'till 11:00.

    If you're going to be a musician, your schedule is going to be something like that. Now I personally love it, I wouldn't give up my schedule for the world, and even though I groan a little when I get some monster gig that's going to take up an entire semester here that's going to rob me of those precious hours of sleep even more, I take them in a second, and I actively search them, because I love doing it, I meet amazing people, and hey, it pays pretty damn well all things considered.


    Now one thing to consider too from my perspective is that I'm a composition major, and I'm a composer first, I never even considered a career in performance because my girlfriend in high school, who is a piano performance major now, could kick my ass up and down a piano, and it wasn't until I got to college and at first got asked out of desperation and later out of being the hot shit around campus on the piano, that I really started to become the performer I am today, where I can do all the shit they tell you that performers need to be able to do. So yeah, I have been playing the instrument since I was 6, but I wasn't serious about it until college, and now I'm pretty much a successful pianist for where I am. Also with my connections I've already got a few jobs lines up for when I go to NYC and have to start differentiating myself from a host of pianists, some of whom may be technically better at the instrument than I am. So it is possible to change focuses or get into it heavily at some point other than when you're 6. Yeah, I did have the background, but I would estimate my skill tripled from high school to my third year of college, and I was not all too bad in high school, just not ready for being a serious performer.

    So my point here is multi-fold. First, if you do decide to go into music, realize that you're giving up pretty much all free time you have, and even in your free time you'll have to be working in some way(Currently I've got Finale open on a song I'm working on to send a new demo to a theater company that's interested in my show), and you'll need to be extremely versatile. It's really rewarding, but it is tough work.

    Second: You need to be an extremely social person if you're a musician. No one will hire you if they don't know about you, and you'll need to look for jobs constantly. I've gotten jobs from some really strange connections, like getting asked to play for a straight play's intermission/opening/incidental music because the ASM of a musical I played for wanted me to play for them again. And hell, the way I got asked for that job was because the ASM was joking around about how she wanted me to just drop by and play piano around her, and another one of my friends I know from gigs said "Oh is this for Prelude to a Kiss?" and that's what got the ASM to ask me. I met my lyricist in a class, where he was looking for a composer, and I was just interested in theater in general, and he asked me if I'd want to write the score for a show he wrote, and now we've got a NYC based company interested in producing it. You have to know everyone and they all have to like you. So that's one thing you'll have to work on, if you're not exceptionally social now.

    Third: All artistic fields are reasonably unique in that you can't just decide to go into it in college. I've never heard of an undecided major deciding after taking a music class to be a music major and being successful at it, in the same way I've heard of undecided major people going into any other field after taking a class and liking it. If you think you're interested, don't sit around and think, start pursuing it. Audition for ensembles, play in pits, join a band, take lessons, go to see live music, do everything and start doing it now. If later you decide it's not for you, then you can always stop doing it to such a degree, and you won't exactly have missed out on anything, you'll just have some more experiences and some nice things to put on applications.

    I'm reasonably hip as a musician, but my training and basics all still derive from hard classical training, so I do have some elitism that I've been trying to shake since I started college, so there's a chance that I come off a little harder than I should. By all means start pursuing music now though, if you think you might seriously be interested in music as a career, because it's a lot easier to drop than to pick up, and do remember to have fun. If you've got a schedule like mine and you don't enjoy it... well you're pretty much fucked then, so don't push yourself to the point where you hate music and don't want to do it anymore, and if you do feel like there's too much work or too much crap in the field... well that'll tell you that maybe it's not the field for you.

    Khavall on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Everyone else has covered an awful lot, but I'm just going to hit on a minor point: private lessons aren't going to cover that much theory. I'd recommend signing up to an intro-level Music Theory course at the local community college, seeing what you think of it.

    Thanatos on
  • Vater5BVater5B Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The reason I pursued my career in music was because I simply couldn't be happy doing anything else. Really consider that. If you can do anything else and be happy, do it. Music needs to consume your life in order to be good at it.

    Everyone else has told you what you need to know.

    Vater5B on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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