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Do all games need a plot/story?
wunderbar
What Have I Done?Registered User regular
What Have I Done?Registered User regular
Starting to playthough my backlog of games from Christmas, I have found that almost every game now tries it's best to make some kind of story to the game. There are some games that, in my opinion, have plots that are like AAA movies. Others have a story that's just there because, well, they wanted to put in some kind of story.
look at some of the games I've played recently. I'm just about Done RE4Wii, and it's got a pretty good story line, one that makes sense. Syphon Filter: Logan's shadow for PSP had probably the best storyline of any game I played in 2007(just got a 360, so i can't speak to games like Mass Effect, but I will soon fix that).
Then, we come to games like BWii, Sonic Rush Adventure, Mario Galaxy, and, to a lesser extent, Metroid Prime 3.
I feel like the worst parts of those games are their story. BWii is not bad, and the plot serves a purpose, but it's definitely not great. In Sonic Rush adventure, I really feel like trying to make a story just gets in the way of me wanting to play. Mario Galaxy doesn't try very hard to have a plot, but there still is one. Yes, I know you'll always have to save the princess, but do we need more than that?
I debated putting MP3 in there, as the story is kind of optional. I've gone though most of it, and the story is pretty neat, but would the game have been less fun without the story? No.
I've had about 1000x more fun with the warroom/vs. missions in Advance wars than I ever have with the stories.
So my question is, why do deveolpers insist on attempting to put plots into some games that just don't need/shouldn't have them? If I'm playing a Mario game, I just want to kill bowser and save the princess. Same idea with Sonic. Why do they make us look at 10+ minutes of "plot" development when all I want to do is actually play the fucking game.
Discuss.
look at some of the games I've played recently. I'm just about Done RE4Wii, and it's got a pretty good story line, one that makes sense. Syphon Filter: Logan's shadow for PSP had probably the best storyline of any game I played in 2007(just got a 360, so i can't speak to games like Mass Effect, but I will soon fix that).
Then, we come to games like BWii, Sonic Rush Adventure, Mario Galaxy, and, to a lesser extent, Metroid Prime 3.
I feel like the worst parts of those games are their story. BWii is not bad, and the plot serves a purpose, but it's definitely not great. In Sonic Rush adventure, I really feel like trying to make a story just gets in the way of me wanting to play. Mario Galaxy doesn't try very hard to have a plot, but there still is one. Yes, I know you'll always have to save the princess, but do we need more than that?
I debated putting MP3 in there, as the story is kind of optional. I've gone though most of it, and the story is pretty neat, but would the game have been less fun without the story? No.
I've had about 1000x more fun with the warroom/vs. missions in Advance wars than I ever have with the stories.
So my question is, why do deveolpers insist on attempting to put plots into some games that just don't need/shouldn't have them? If I'm playing a Mario game, I just want to kill bowser and save the princess. Same idea with Sonic. Why do they make us look at 10+ minutes of "plot" development when all I want to do is actually play the fucking game.
Discuss.
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Then I saw Transformers: The Movie (the animated one), which I had loved as a kid, and could barely watch it because the non-stop action was maddening. Granted, it DID have a plot, so it's only tangentially related, but I think re: games, if we don't have a barebones reason to identify with what's going on, then we're just that much more removed from the experience and less likely to stay engaged with the material.
And then I also consider that there are great games that I'm sure I would've played if there was no story, but there were tons of mediocre games that I bothered to keep playing just to finish the story...
I also think that with a plot, they cover more of their bases - different types of gamers are attracted to different aspects. The obsessive gamer part of me is a lot more likely to finish a game to see the rest of the story than I am to get that last percentage point or raw statistic. There are people like me who will play through a game again to see a different ending, and there are others who would play through just beat their last score/time/whatever - if you bother to include story, you snag and hang onto more people like me.
I'm the kind of gamer that find myself asking what my motivation is (knowing full well that it's really to just play the game, but I like when my character has some kind of in-continuity justification). Maybe it's the English Lit. major in me...
I drives me mad when a friend with ADD skips past all the story and dialogue and sprints to the next gameplay sequence, but I agree that if you're that kind of gamer, you shouldn't be FORCED to sit through stuff you're not interested in. I've seen many games that were helped by the inclusion of story, but I can't recall any that were hurt by having one, even a terrible one.
edit: But, yes, games can be entertainment based solely on their gameplay mechanics, reflex-based stuff or whatever. Others can be centred more around attempts at telling a story, or using that to try and give more direction and motivation to the player.
And quoth Sean Connery: "The game is on".
For me, anyway, a game's story is almost dead last in what I'm looking for in a game, since a great lot of them just simply blow. Rare exceptions are genres like adventure games (where the actual gameplay isn't too involved) and some RPGs. I could play Geometry Wars Galaxies all day long, and that game doesn't even try to create a bullshit fiction.
Ya, I was talking more about the cut scenes in RE4Wii than the notes. The notes were not delivered well, but the story itself was still well done. The cut scenes are where the story in RE4 shines.
I like the idea of splitting games into "games" and "interactive entertainment"
The games with the best stories really do feel like you are taking part in a movie plot, which I love. I played through Syphon Filter twice because of that. Then there are games like Mario that I just want to play to have fun. I've played more Mario Galaxy than I care to admit simply because it's a lot of fun to just play the game.
Serious Sam didn't. It made up for this by having a huge amount of bad guys on the screen and a massive chain gun to kill them with.
No, not all games need a plot/story, but some games are absoluty dependent on them. For example, take Planescape. The story is arguably one of the finest in video-gaming, but if the game was released with a less amazing story it would get ripped apart. The combat is absolute shit and half the time the paths the characters take to get where you click are sometimes amazingly stupid. There are several points in the game
However, all these complaints fade in the prescence of the awesome story. So, not all games need a story, but a great story can cause the flaws of a game to be overlooked.
Then after a certain point, I realized there was a story all around me all along. The ending really came out of nowhere.
the story is what really made it great though. Instead of just peachy keen.
Most games? Probably.
Some games? Fuck Yes.
No, you don't really need a plot in games like Tetris or other abstract puzzle games. As there are no characters, usually, a story is totally unnecessary. THat is not, however, to say that all games of this type don't need a story as Puzzle Quest has so aptly demonstrated.
Conversely, imagine a platformer with no story at all. While any given platformer is an excuse to go from point A to point B, a reason is still required in order to get the player to want to accomplish this goal. In Donkey Kong, Mario has to rescue the Princess. In Sonic, the player has to save Sonic's friends from the machinations of Robotnik. Granted, the story in a platformer has an incredibly varying level fo importance. For example, Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time is considered one of, if not the, best platformers of the last generation and is extremely reliant on narrative structure to hook the player into the game. However, the player is only given the vaguest objective in a game like Super Mario Galaxy. Both fine platformers, but in two very distinct fashions.
THere's also the problem of RPGs. An RPG without a story is essentially a calculus exercise as the player will always opt for a numerically superior choice if no other reason is provided. Fights, especially in the typical JRPG style, are also incredibly boring. Story is a thing which creates and defines the RPG genre and without it the genre really doesn't exist.
If the gameplay isn't entertaining and the story is non-existant, or vice versa, that's called a shitty game.
Really Really Random RPG is a good example of an abstract RPG, if you want an actual example:
http://www.rampantgames.com/blog/2006/09/abstract-rpg.html
Personally, I think some stories are actually stories, while others are excuses. I'm fine with that.
Oooh - good point. Plot = progress, story = well, something more than just progress.
PS: And by now, there's less of an excuse for not letting us have it both ways - modern game tech lets us have things like story mode but should also let us skip the story and play whatever part of the game we want, as it should be with games like Guitar Hero. If we're obsessive enough to not want to be able to access the entire game until we grind through it, we're obsessive enough to ignore the free play mode and pretend like we have to - no need to punish anybody else.
thats not a plot.
threads like this irk me because almost everyone confuses plot for story, or even thinks they're the same thing. They're not, they're very different.
Well, umm, I'm not wise as to the difference. Can you enlighten us please?
An L block killed my father and raped my mother. My quest became to fill that void the L left in my life by any means necessary.
edit: Concerning plot / story, plot is the sequence of events kind of deal while story is the impetus for doing those events and encompasses everything that happens. For example,
The plot of Mario Galaxy is to collect stars, repower the star ship (or whatever it was) and defeat Bowser and save the Princess.
The story of Mario Galaxy is...well, that little bit at the start and that retarded ending
In contrast, the plot of Mass Effect is to stop Saron and the Reapers and save the galaxy.
The story is a far reaching and complex space opera dealing with the discovery of how the Protheans were wiped out, learning of the Reapers, discovering Sarons plot and everything that I would consider spoilers after that. You dont just kill people to level up. You have a distinct reason (well, maybe not for side missions) to go out, find out everything you can and progress the story based on what you learn along the way. As it's an RPG, you're given options to change events (order of missions) and your perception (good/evil) and how people interact with you or who lives and dies which all affect the story in some way. I don't want to go into spoilers so this is a fairly vague description, but so much more in depth than the fully fleshed out Mario Galaxy story I described above.
Picking up random star #103 in Galaxy does nothing and you have no reason to do it other than the plot dictates you must collect stars.
It's an abstract dissection of the life of the middle-class Russian during the final days of the Soviet Union. His is a hopelessly Sisyphean task, and the harder he tries to complete it, the harder it becomes to complete.
Anyway, some games absolutely require a story, either to compliment the gameplay or to prop up poor gameplay. It's unnecessary in a great number of games, and in many it would actually be harmful; I don't want Rock Band set lists interspersed with cut-scenes depicting my band's rise to fame.
SMG integrated a little bit of a story with Rosalina, and look how many people hated that. Personally I thought it was a nice little side-bonus, and was far more irked by the way the ending of the game melted into a Mario-ified version of 2001.
See, I'm always torn on RE4. It's either just a really, really bad attempt at a good story, or a brilliantly executed campy one. I've never really been able to figure out which.
http://www.audioentropy.com/
sorta
story is all the information we know about what's going on, both that we've seen and that we haven't seen. For example, in Empire Strikes Back, the story engulfs all of the previous star wars and then some, along with large mythos and progression. That's it's story.
A plot is what we see on the screen described out. So while the story for Empire Strikes Back is very long, the plot is not quite as long. Begins with a space ship moving forward, then cut to hoth, then a shot of luke, etc. Plot is not always the same in story. Sometimes the plot is jumbled up - like in citizen kane or momento. Plot is not story.
For example, the story of Mario is that the princess of the mushroom kingdom has been kidnapped and mario goes through various castles to find her. The plot is "you begin at world 1, you move right, you jump and hit a block, you move right some more, you jump on the goomba, etc"
the plot is the gameplay.
Here's the thing...
When people talk about games as a medium, they are split between 3 camps:
1. The camp that thinks games are like interactive movies.
This camp believes that games, to truly be taken as "art," need to be as close to interactive movies as possible. They believe that the best games have epic, inspirational, emotional stories with deep and involving and dynamic characters. They think that the best of these are these huge games that often have amazing/stylish graphics, usually sweeping musical scores, and incredible writing, and fantastic animation. Typical examples from this group include Mass Effect or some RPG or Metal Gear Solid.
2. The camp that thinks of videogames as digital sports/games
This camp feels like games don't really need stories; and that stories are merely a framework to set up the true purpose of the game; which is for the player to exercise his handeye coordination, timing, reflexes, spatial/distance orientation, and thinking on his feet. Or alternatively, the critical thought that you might put into a strategy or puzzle game or digital 'board game.' Examples from this group might include a competitive multiplayer game or FPS, or a platformer, or a puzzle game or fighting game.
Finally
3. The camp that believes that games can be either, or both
This is the camp that most of us fall into. We believe that different types of games are designed for different purposes; and just because one game follows a certain design doesn't make another that doesn't any less of a game. So while we play and enjoy our 40+ hour epic RPGs and adventure games, we also enjoy games that put our skills to the test, or simply allow us to experience a new way of exploring the digital medium without difficulty or without some predetermined story. Different games are good and fun for different reasons; and these types of games can overlap. So while we play Mass Effect or Final Fantasy for its engaging worlds and interesting stories, and enjoy the gameplay provided by these, it doesn't stop us from also enjoying games for which the plot is merely a device for setting up a world in which gameplay can take place, like Mario Galaxy. When I play a Mario game, it's not because I care about Mario or Peach or Bowser; these characters are merely devices for delivering a fantastic gaming experience. Meanwhile, there are other games that deliver their enjoyment through challenge or increasing skill or by music; stuff like Ninja Gaiden or Contra 4 is fun for its increasing difficulty and rewarding gameplay; stuff like Geometry Wars or Tetris are fun because of the challenge and increasing scores that you obtain; Guitar Hero or Rockband is fun regardless of story when you can involve yourself with music in ways you couldn't before, with friends to boot. There are countless other examples of how games are engaging without stories or plots.. I'll stop here from listing further, though.
In short, no, games do not "need" stories.
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http://www.audioentropy.com/
Don't get me wrong, I'm playing through the game on the Wii for the first time now, and I'm loving it. But the plot/story are so bad, I'm tempted to say that it is a parody of itself. And I think that is probably one of the things that makes the game so awesome.
Reviewers slammed the game for having no story. A shmup of all things?! Who cares if a shmup has a story?! If anything, the fact that it has no story sequences is a plus: it means the game focuses on presenting non stop action.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
You're not the only one. If a game has a great story, it's a nice extra, but I've played and enjoyed many RPGs primarily for their gameplay and ignored their generic stories. Hence, I thought Grandia 3 and Wild Arms 4 were fantastic games whereas most people panned them for their stories.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,
If games need stories then the 80's arcades never happened.
That may work for you, but just watching my brother play through Episode 2 (which I've already completed), I was staggered by just how good that is from a story/character standpoint. Games without stories would sadden me greatly.
sometimes this will start a fight, and sometimes those men are stronger, but there's a lot to be said for a moral victory
The game is pure undiluted game.
The sparse, tiny plot in the main Mario game's is perfect. This addition of unnecessary additions is what destroyed the mainline Sonic games.
A game like Mario only needs an archetypal plot, any more works against it. As sunshine showed. Or to be entirely plot like the Paper Marios. A half way house is a mistake.
Sitting down for a stolen twenty minutes and walking away with a star, and the joyful flight back to the ship is far, far more satistfying and full of achievement than spending twenty minutes advancing a plot.
2009 is a year of Updates - one every Monday. Hopefully. xx
This. I'm not a big Mario fan, but I know that if I ever need to play an awesome platforming game, that's where I'd go. If I want a game for story and plot and characters, I'd go elsewhere. That's where when Yahtzee dared comment that Mario didn't have an original plot and story.. so what? If that's what you're looking for, Mario's not for you. If you're after a platformer, then it most certainly is.
Steam ID : rwb36, Twitter : Werezompire,