As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Brother Taking Control of my Paycheck - angryface

robotsunshinerobotsunshine regular
edited January 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
in december, i got a job working over-night at target, doing stock. it's a good job - decent pay, easy work. what's more, my brother is one of my bosses (there's some bizarre hierarchy of people in charge, and he's somewhere upper-middle.)

my brother is about 31 or so, and i'm 21, 22 come july. ever since i got the job, he's become a lot more overbearing than usual (he's always been extremely protective when i was younger. he's an authority figure by nature, it shows in his personality). he's switched around my hours so i'm always working when he's working, he makes me stay way later than i should, usually 3-4 hours so i'll leave when he does, and he essentially makes decisions about my working night without my consent. but, he's my boss, so not much i can do there, so i don't complain. he says he's doing it to help me, giving me a larger paycheck - which i can, of course, appreciate, and thank him for - however, he decides to do this not because he's the boss, but because he's my brother. and if it's for personal reasons like that, i'd appreciate him discussing it with me. a lot of these decisions occur outside of work anyway.

this has also ruined a few days where i've had things planned. it's annoying, but it's what he's supposed to do at work. now, the problem comes at home, where he banned me from wearing a certain lotion simply because he doesn't like it (no, i don't wear too much). sometimes he enforces a sleep schedule on me, to get ready for work (i have never, ever had a problem at work involving a faulty sleep schedule. i might stay up an hour or two later than i should somedays, but nothing severe). he's also started to dictate what i can and can't buy with my paycheck. all of this, i think, is starting to cross the line. it's my belief that me, being 21, working hard, getting things done, always on time, that i should get to decide what happens to my own paycheck. i've reached legal age, and even if you don't agree with the choices i make, or think they're foolish, they're still my choices. screwing up my hours and plans is annoying, but i can work with it. telling me what i'm allowed to do outside of work is unacceptable. he never discusses anything with me, he simply makes arbitrary decisions according to what he thinks is best. he's stubborn and won't listen to a rational discussion about this. i need help :(

robotsunshine on

Posts

  • ege02ege02 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Being protective is understandable. Treating you as a child is not. You're almost 22 years old and he needs to recognize that you are no longer his "baby brother". Also, it's your god damn money, you can do whatever the hell you want with it.

    Talk to him about it. If he doesn't want to listen, go to his superior and ask to be transferred to a different manager, one that doesn't have any family ties with you.

    ege02 on
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Sorry if this brings up something unwanted, but what about your parents or other family members that could mediate this?

    I don't think anything we advise you to do would end well (I forsee bad blood and/or someone moving out) so you might want to bring it up with someone who is familiar with both you and your brother.

    Arikado on
    BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | LoL: Anzen
  • StarStar Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    To be honest, I would try looking for another job. Working with family always runs the risk of something like this happening - and it tends to be such a delicate subject that it's not always something you can easily fix.

    You're certainly right - you're 21 and unless you're not paying rent and fulfilling any duties you have with your money (or I suppose going on drinking/drug benders) your brother should be there for advice, but not controlling 'do this, not that'. It's also not a good idea to go over his head on the subject, that is going to his boss and discussing that there's a problem - but it is an option. You would know your brother better then I would. That's also a very risky move that may alienate you and your brother all the more.

    Biggest suggestion if talking to him isn't working is to start looking for something else, if he questions you about it kindly explain to him that you're uncomfortable with how he's turned your private/professional relationships into one and the same so you're taking the steps to remedy the problem. His feelings may be a bit hurt but he should be happy that you're taking the responsibility to look for a job while you have one.

    I also know, sometimes with older siblings you really have to drill into their head that you appreciate WHAT they're trying to do and just explain to them that they way they're doing it is more demeaning then helpful.

    Goodluck (I know me and my own sister have been through very, very similar problems)

    Star on
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Also, I want to add that many bad things can come from this if it is not remedied. I had an older sister who essentially was the one who started to control my finances (as well as my parents) and she ended up disappearing after embezzeling over $40k of our family's finances.

    Arikado on
    BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | LoL: Anzen
  • CryogenCryogen Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Star wrote: »
    I also know, sometimes with older siblings you really have to drill into their head that you appreciate WHAT they're trying to do and just explain to them that they way they're doing it is more demeaning then helpful.

    This. Talk to him about whats happening at home. Explain that it is important that you make your own decisions and that he can not make them for you. Let him know his advice is appreciated, but sometimes what he thinks is best isnt the same as what you think is best, and you need to be able to make that call for yourself.

    Cryogen on
  • DaenrisDaenris Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    he says he's doing it to help me, giving me a larger paycheck - which i can, of course, appreciate, and thank him for - however, he decides to do this not because he's the boss, but because he's my brother.

    This is pretty stupid on his part, as he could easily lose his job for exactly this behavior. Just sit down and talk to him. Tell him you appreciate the extra money, but that you think he should probably lay off switching your schedule around like that for both of your sakes so that you can both actually keep your jobs.

    Daenris on
  • Aoi TsukiAoi Tsuki Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Target doesn't have an anti-nepotism policy like everyone else in the universe? O_o Everyone's right about you needing to politely and firmly get across to your brother that he needs to lay off, but it strikes me as odd that no one minds him being your boss.

    Aoi Tsuki on
  • robotsunshinerobotsunshine regular
    edited January 2008
    thanks. our only mediator would be our mom (without getting too much into it, she's close to 60 and on disability, so she needs us here - or at least one of us, so we've held off on moving out for a while. no financial problems or anything, she just needs the company), but she's very passive about enforcing anything, and plus running to mom seems to defeat the whole, "i'm 21 and can take care of myself" thing. though i will talk to her about it, for input.

    the bills and all are taken care of. right now, the things i need from my paycheck are to get a car (previous one died) and see about college in the upcoming months. my plan was to put a portion of each check into a savings account, and with that, be on my way towards a new used car. my brother offered to help, except that he's telling me to use the entire check in the next... however long it takes, which is not something i want to do (you can imagine sitting at home all the time with no money and nothing to do can suck). he's also banned the usage of any student loans, as far as college goes.

    i was mainly using my paychecks towards savings in the bank, and going out on the weekends (the only time my friends are really free), with said savings reaching for a car, then college. also a really cheap laptop, since we've only got one computer and no one's willing to share :D

    i admit i'm not too familiar with the intricacies of car shopping, but i'm figuring i can find a decent used vehicle after a few months of saving. and i'm doing fine by bus until then, never had a problem. i just don't want to spend all this time working to be cooped up inside all the time. plus, i'm not sure what he's planned for future checks. either way, it still boils down to, "you seem inexperienced, so let me offer advice," versus, "i don't like what you're doing, so i'm taking control."

    robotsunshine on
  • robotsunshinerobotsunshine regular
    edited January 2008
    Aoi Tsuki wrote: »
    Target doesn't have an anti-nepotism policy like everyone else in the universe? O_o Everyone's right about you needing to politely and firmly get across to your brother that he needs to lay off, but it strikes me as odd that no one minds him being your boss.

    no one knows he's my brother. we have different last names. we just say we're friends, in order to avoid such problems.

    robotsunshine on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    ...he's also banned the usage of any student loans, as far as college goes.
    You have a mother on disability, it sounds like your father isn't really in the picture (correct me if I'm wrong), and your brother says "no student loans?" I'm going to be exceedingly kind here and call your brother a total fucking idiot. I mean, it would be one thing if he knew the first thing about finances, but he clearly doesn't. With one parent on a fixed income, you're going to qualify for all sorts of federal subsidized student loans, which you would have to be a fucking retard to turn down. I could see your brother giving you financial advice if maybe he knew the first fucking thing about finances, but he very clearly doesn't.

    You should start planning to go to college now. Fill out a FAFSA ASAP, see what you qualify for, because I suspect you'll need significantly less than you previously thought you would.

    What do you need the car for? Given that you've mentioned money issues, that's something you should really avoid if you can. From the sounds of it, you live somewhere with a decent bus system, and a car is basically a money pit, so if you can live pretty easily without having one, you should do that.

    Thanatos on
  • robotsunshinerobotsunshine regular
    edited January 2008
    dad's deceased, yeah. the bus system is wonderful - i've used it for years and never once had a problem. there's a bus stop at the corner (60 second walk), one in front of work, one in front of the mall, in front of the movie theater, my favorite places to eat out, my usual hangout spots, friends' houses... they're everywhere, and run all the time.

    thanks for the feedback so far, everyone. seeing as how my brother's only contribution to such discussions is, "whatever, just don't do it," and a tendency to pout, he may not be the person to talk to about this. hearing from you all that i seem to be making generally good decisions and that he is not, is giving me a bit more confidence than i originally had in this matter. if it's okay, i'd like to leave the thread as unsolved for just a few more replies, in case anyone has anything else to add. but really, now, i think i know what to do. thanks!

    robotsunshine on
  • VThornheartVThornheart Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Star wrote: »
    To be honest, I would try looking for another job. Working with family always runs the risk of something like this happening - and it tends to be such a delicate subject that it's not always something you can easily fix.

    Just what I was coming into the forum to say. =)

    VThornheart on
    3DS Friend Code: 1950-8938-9095
  • Dulcius_ex_asperisDulcius_ex_asperis Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Speaking from experience as someone with a single parent/low income coming into college, Thinatos is right. Fill out the freaking FAFSA, and take the money. Make sure you get a Perkins loan, too. Government money pair for almost 2/3 of my education.

    Also, the sitch with your brother definitely sucks. Why don't you make it known that he is your brother?

    And yeah, don't get a car unless you absolutely HAVE to. You won't need a car if you are going away to college. Use the bus, a bike, or bum rides. No one will care as long as you offer up gas money.

    Dulcius_ex_asperis on
  • robotsunshinerobotsunshine regular
    edited January 2008
    the good part about college is that, the one i'm attending is quite close, and i won't be in the dorms. quite reliably, the school is a bus ride from either my house or work.

    robotsunshine on
  • tsmvengytsmvengy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    A few things:

    #1 - Go to college. And don't listen to your brother when he says "no student loans." Interest rates are so low right now that the federal subsidized loans are almost like free money. And you don't have to start paying them off until you're done with college. Fill out your FAFSA now, because if you wait and keep saving money, you'll get less from them.

    #2 - Savings. If the bus system is good enough to get you where you want to go (I didn't see where you live) then don't buy a car. If you do decide you need one, then buy a reliable used car.

    #3 - Your Job. Lying to your employer was your first mistake (it sounds like they don't know you're brothers.) If you tell them, you'll both no doubt be fired. So that avenue of mediation is cut off. I would talk to your brother at home - make it clear that you like that he's trying to help you, and that it's great that he wants to help you get more hours, but it's not cool the times when it cuts into other stuff you have planned. I mean, he could be using his position to really help you out and all, but it sounds like he's also really being a dick about it. If he continues to do so and refuses to change anything, then tell him you plan on quitting. He should realize that if he wasn't forthcoming about the fact that you're brothers when he hired you, he could lose his job.

    tsmvengy on
    steam_sig.png
  • SzechuanosaurusSzechuanosaurus Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2008
    Star wrote: »
    To be honest, I would try looking for another job. Working with family always runs the risk of something like this happening - and it tends to be such a delicate subject that it's not always something you can easily fix.

    Just what I was coming into the forum to say. =)

    To be honest, his brother will probably do this even if he is working somewhere else. It's confusing matters that he's your boss at work as well as bossing you about at home, but the two aren't necessarily related.

    Szechuanosaurus on
  • PongePonge Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I don't know how long ago your father died, but maybe he's trying to overcompensate as a father figure for you or something? Or maybe his confidence is a bit shot and he feels the need to both control yuo and live out his own life through you a bit?

    I'm not sure what advice I can give you though. I mean you're in the right, but if he's stubborn you'll either need to just tell it to him straight and hope he deals with it ok, or just don't take his advice and let him pout.

    Does he have a lot of hobbies/friends? Or does he spend most of his time around the house with your mum?

    Ponge on
  • ZeonZeon Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I have a question. How is your brother making you do anything? Does he threaten to shoot your face off if you dont listen to him? Does he threaten to fire you if you dont? Im failing to understand how your brother is making you do anything or forbidding you from doing other things (like taking student loans) unless theres some sort of threat to your livelyhood going on here.

    People have opinions. Maybe he expresses them in way that makes you feel that hes "forcing" you to do something. Maybe you feel this way because hes your brother. But unless hes a complete cock or a psychopath, i cant see him doing this on purpose.

    Zeon on
    btworbanner.jpg
    Check out my band, click the banner.
  • ArdorArdor Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    On the work part, there's a reason most companies have policies against having family work together when they are in different levels of positions. I was pretty sure Target had this in place when I worked there many, many years ago.

    Being your brother or not, he's required to act professionally in the work setting. Would you allow any other manager to do what he's doing to you during your work shift? If so, then there probably isn't a problem. If he's the only manager you'd allow to add extra hours and treat you like he's doing now (due to him being your brother), then there's a problem. You can bring this up with him first to let him know your thoughts and let him know you'd like to be treated equally or you will ask for a change in managers or locations, or you can consider just going to another manager to let them know of the problem. This may get your brother in hot water and since you two seem to be decently close in proximity, this might not be your best option to create [more] tension.

    As for finances, I agree with Thinatos. Why turn down options to get a chance for an education or different career path? Second, what he's telling you should be advice, not dictation. You don't work for him at home and he doesn't own you, so tell him you appreciate his advice and will take it into consideration, but that paycheck was written out to you.

    As has been mentioned before, do you need a car? If finances are tight and you can get by with public transportation, biking, or walking for example, do that. I never needed a car on campus because everything was within walking or biking distance.

    If you can afford it, you might consider living on campus if they have housing available just to get away from your brother for a bit. It might be a good break for the two of you and allow you some freedom it sounds like you haven't had for a while.

    Ardor on
  • shutzshutz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Just one quick suggestion: if you're going to go the student loans path (which I would recommend, especially if what you're aiming for in college is something that's likely to pay well and land you steady work) is to gather as much data and numbers as possible, and show to your brother why it's a good idea. Walk him through the calculations.

    Show him that, by accumulating the money you would normally use to pay for tuition in a high-interest account (for instance) you'll have a nice chunk of money to pay off most if not all the loan when you get your degree, without ending up in debt. Show him that, by living at home (assuming the tension between the two of you don't preclude this) your costs will be low, so that most of the money you'll be making by working part-time while studying (you are planning on doing this, right?) can go straight into that account while the loan pays for school.

    Since most student loans don't accrue any interest while you're still in school, you could end up with more money in your pockets at the end than if you paid for it all yourself.

    And don't be afraid to start saying NO to your brother, when he's being a dick at home. Be firm, but as diplomatic as possible. If he gets angry, just step out, take a walk, let the both of you cool off, and when you come back, try to talk about all this rationally.

    If he's normally a reasonable guy, not too impulsive, and you don't think it would make things any worse between the two of you, you might want to show him this thread! Yes, some of us have called him names in here, but if he can't take a little name-calling like that, he IS a dick. On the other hand, if he is reasonable enough, it might more easily show him your point of view.

    An intermediate solution would be to write him a letter, basically explaining the things you have problems with, and some of your plans (including some of the better suggestions in this thread, hopefully) while doing your best to keep things rational, and not go into the emotional stuff too much. It's harder to become and stay angry at a letter, especially if it's written in a calm, rational tone.

    Let him know that you love him, he's your brother and all, but if he doesn't let you live your own life (and, dammit, make some of your own mistakes, too!) then you'll have to find another job and perhaps even go live elsewhere. Don't use it as a threat. Say it like you really don't want to, but if he doesn't cut you a little slack, you will have to do it. Try and keep the moral high ground throughout.

    shutz on
    Creativity begets criticism.
    Check out my new blog: http://50wordstories.ca
    Also check out my old game design blog: http://stealmygamedesigns.blogspot.com
Sign In or Register to comment.