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ROCK BAND: This thread title doesn't change until we get Who's Next

UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
edited February 2008 in Games and Technology
JOINING THE PA ROCK BAND CLUBS!
Here's How It Works: There are two groups. One group is full of people who won't be asshats and quit matches after, like, one song, people that won't hog guitar and will do bass every once in a while, generally stand-up, PA forum players. The other group includes the aforementioned, along with the criteria of having about 50% of the DLC.

NOT AN ASSHAT? WANT A RELIABLE STABLE OF FORUMERS WHO WON'T QUIT MATCHES LIKE A LITTLE BITCH?
Add "PA Rock Band" to your friend list.

Do you have half the DLC?
Add "RockBand allDLC" to your friend list.

Still with me? Good.
Once you're a friend, go to the gamertag's profile, go to Personal Profile, and View Friends. You now know who is online and currently owns Rock Band, and will be able to send invites. People that are friends with RockBand allDLC now have a portal to Rock Banders that will probably share a good amount of DLC with them. Enjoy the greatest music game ever made, with your friends from Penny Arcade! I'm a poet and I didn't know it.

Number of DLC Songs Available As of January 29, 2008:
50 Songs


Note: There's 58 songs in the retail game (45 main setlist and 13 bonus), so if you subtract 58 from your total songs as listed in Solo World Tour, you'll have the amount of DLC you've purchased.

rockbandspecialbox.jpg

PlayStation 3 Bundle Pic

rb360c.jpg

Xbox 360 Box Art

What Guitars Can I Use?

Xbox 360 Rock Band owners are free to use the Guitar Hero II X-plorer, the Guitar Hero III Gibson Les Paul, or the Rock Band Fender Stratocaster. PS3 owners do not have the luxury, and have to use their wireless Strat that comes packaged in with Rock Band. The following chart, therefore, only applies to the 360 version.

rb_compatibility.jpg

The Game

(Excerpts From Wikipedia)

Rock Band is an upcoming music video game under development by Harmonix Music Systems, published by MTV Games, and to be distributed by Electronic Arts Partners. The Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 versions are scheduled for a North American release on November 20, 2007 at a price point of $169.99, while the PlayStation 2 version will be released in North America on December 10, 2007 at a price point of $159.99. The game will be released in Europe in early 2008. In early 2008, a Wii version of the game was announced, but no release date was given.

Rock Band will allow players to perform in virtual "bands" by providing up to four players with the ability to play three different instrument-based peripherals (a guitar peripheral for guitar and bass guitar sequences, a drum peripheral, and a microphone). These instruments will be used to simulate the playing of rock music by hitting scrolling notes on-screen. Players can interact through both online and offline multiplayer capabilities. The game is Harmonix's first project since development duties of the Guitar Hero series were transferred over to Neversoft.

(In Casual Speak)

The culmination of what Guitar Hero I and II had hinted at. How psyched am I for this? Super-psyched. There's a very good chance (we're talking 75% here) that this could be become my favorite series of all time.

rockband-01.jpg

The user interface. Left is guitar, middle is drums, right is bass, vocals run along the top. It was confirmed that the positions of these can be switched.

The Instruments

214px-Rockband-guitar.jpg

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This sexy replica of the Fender Stratocaster is (from a style perspective) a vast improvement over the GHII model, looking much more like an actual instrument rather than a toy. Each fret button is still color-coded, however it's much more incognito this time, as the colors are only visible on a side-view, perfectly placed for the player. Other features include a five-way switch for different sound effects, and an extra set of the five existing fret buttons for all your soloing needs.

Downstrum not working on your Strat anymore? Not afraid to fix it yourself? THIS WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY.
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=40188

THE GUITAR THAT COMES WITH THE 360 BUNDLE IS WIRED. THE GUITAR THAT COMES WITH THE PS3 BUNDLE IS WIRELESS. If you happen to own both systems and really want a wireless guitar (and GH3's controller end up not working on Rock Band), this is going to be a large part of your decision. To accommodate all the instruments, the 360 bundle will come with a USB hub.

525px-Rockband-drumset.jpg

Four pads (snare drum, tom-tom, hi-hat, and cymbals), one kick pedal. Real drum sticks. I imagine you know what those look like, and they're easily replaceable if lost. According to reports, it's easy to assemble in less than five minutes, and you can even set it up on a flat tabletop if you don't like the stand. Easily the newest part of the game I'm looking forward to the most.

802674b.jpg

It's a microphone. One tends to sing into these devices. It picks up individual vowels and consonants, and if your bastard friend happens to be playing the solo on "Highway Star" or you really want to imitate Will Ferrell, it can be used as a tambourine or cowbell by simply tapping on it. Don't want to tap? Hand full of axe? Just make random noises, like "pow pow pow." All the real rockers do this when people aren't looking.

The Music

These are the songs confirmed to be on the disc at release so far, in alpha order by song title. The master tracks are in bold.

"Are You Gonna Be My Girl" - Jet
"Ballroom Blitz" - Sweet
"Black Hole Sun" - Soundgarden
"Blitzkrieg Bop" - The Ramones
"Celebrity Skin" - Hole
"Cherub Rock" - Smashing Pumpkins
"Creep" - Radiohead
"Dani California" - Red Hot Chili Peppers
"Dead On Arrival" - Fall Out Boy
"Detroit Rock City" - KISS
"(Don't Fear) The Reaper" - Blue Oyster Cult
"Electric Version" - The New Pornographers
"Enter Sandman" - Metallica
"Epic" - Faith No More
"Flirtin' With Disaster" - Molly Hatchet
"Foreplay/Long Time" - Boston
"Gimme Shelter" - The Rolling Stones
"Go with the Flow" - Queens of the Stone Age

"Green Grass and High Tides" - The Outlaws
"The Hand That Feeds" - Nine Inch Nails
"Here It Goes Again" - OK Go
"Highway Star" - Deep Purple
"I Think I'm Paranoid" - Garbage
"In Bloom" - Nirvana
"Learn to Fly" - Foo Fighters
"Main Offender" - The Hives
"Maps" - Yeah Yeah Yeahs

"Mississippi Queen" - Mountain
"Next to You" - The Police
"Orange Crush" - REM

"Paranoid" - Black Sabbath
"Reptilia" - The Strokes
"Run to the Hills" - Iron Maiden
"Sabotage" - Beastie Boys
"Say It Ain't So" - Weezer
"Should I Stay or Should I Go" - The Clash
"Suffragette City" - David Bowie

"Tom Sawyer" - Rush
"Train Kept A-Rollin'" - Aerosmith
"Vasoline" - Stone Temple Pilots
"Wanted Dead or Alive" - Bon Jovi
"Wave of Mutilation" - The Pixies
"Welcome Home" - Coheed and Cambria
"When You Were Young" - The Killers
"Won't Get Fooled Again" - The Who


BONUS TRACKS:



"29 Fingers" - The Konks
"Blood Doll" - Anarchy Club
"Brainpower" - Freezepop
"Can't Let Go" - Death of the Cool
"Day Late, Dollar Short" - The Acro-Brats
"I Get By" - Honest Bob and the Factory-to-Dealer Incentives
"I'm So Sick" - Flyleaf
"Nightmare" - Crooked X
"Outside" - Tribe
"Pleasure (Pleasure)" - Bang Camaro
"Seven" - Vagiant
"Time We Had" - The Mother Hips
"Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld" - Timmy and the Lords of the Underworld


A METRIC FUCKTON OF DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT. 200 SONGS IN THE WORKS FOR 2008. Available in albums, packs, or individual purchase. $1.99 is standard price for most songs. Rare occasions may see $0.99 or $2.99. Track Packs come at a discounted price of three songs for $5.49.

And wouldn't you know it, those lovable characters at OXM have even taken their time to review individual tracks as they come out, so you don't have to (by purchasing them first)!
http://www.oxmonline.com/articles/59


Albums

The Who - "Who's Next"

All videos on expert unless otherwise noted. I'm trying to find videos of guitar/bass/drums, but can't find many for the bass.

PRICE (unless otherwise noted)
  • One Song = $1.99
  • 3-Pack = $5.49
  • Songs that are underlined cost $0.99 each
MASTER TRACK
COVER TRACK




Official XBox Magazine Feb'08 Bonus Songs:
Special thanks to Houn, Lord Yod, pablo_price and Mr Bubbles, who are much less lazy than I.

Rumors abound that it will be followed by Nirvana's Nevermind. Tracks can be purchased individually or as a whole package. DLC by the Grateful Dead has been confirmed as well.

SO YOU WANT A GOLD STAR.
A Gold Star is like a 6-Star. You do NOT need to hit 100% of the notes, it's just another high score level after 5-Star. Scrolling down your setlist and seeing a bunch of Gold Stars is scientifically proven to release endorphins that make you feel like a badass.

Guitar Gold-Star Cutoffs
Bass Gold-Star Cutoffs
Drum Gold-Star Cutoffs
Vocal Gold-Star Cutoffs (this thread has just started, and is therefore still in its beginning stages; scores may be off)

UnbreakableVow on
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Posts

  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    "Working Man" and "Ten Speed" = all dicks cumming

    Never heard "Siva", but if it's in a pack with those two, I'm sure it's awesome.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    God damn you, GGHT. Still failing in the 90s.

    Feels Good Man on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So um... it seems I can't alt-strum. At all. So far, in my progression from easy (first guitar game) to expert in the last 2 months or so, I've been playing almost everything by tapping the strum bar downward with my thumb. Now I'm on expert, and I'm on the tier with Celebrity Skin and Creep, and I get to these long super-fast strum sections, and just completely suck at them.

    Can anyone learn me some alt-strum technique?

    Edit: That is to say, I'm not failing on these songs, but scoring 81% isn't something I'm proud of.

    Lord Yod on
    steam_sig.png
  • HounHoun Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I can alt-strum ok; I find it's easiest if I start with downstrums, listen to the speed of the clicks, then flip to alt-strumming and trying to maintain that sound. I'm on a clicktastic Les Paul, though, so the sound is probably much less noticeable on a Strat.

    Now, someone teach me how to do long repeating HOPOs.

    Houn on
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Smashing Pumpkins - "Siva" Music Video and Acoustic
    *Warning Billy Corgan With Hair Warning*

    Siva has a medium/slow tempo. The drums, however, sound like you're going at it restlessly during the small breaks for vocals/guitars.

    Arikado on
    BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | LoL: Anzen
  • freakish lightfreakish light butterdick jones and his heavenly asshole machineRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Houn wrote: »
    I can alt-strum ok; I find it's easiest if I start with downstrums, listen to the speed of the clicks, then flip to alt-strumming and trying to maintain that sound. I'm on a clicktastic Les Paul, though, so the sound is probably much less noticeable on a Strat.

    Now, someone teach me how to do long repeating HOPOs.

    I've only ever played Guitar Hero III (and, honestly, I only popped into this thread to commend the The Stand reference in the title), but if you're having a lot of trouble with some long repeating HOPOs and you just don't have the finger dexterity and/or timing to do it without strumming, double-strum all the notes. They still count if you double-strum, and the timer window is a little bigger on a strum than HO (again, in GHIII) so you can whale on the strum bar and fly your fingers over the fret board to try and hit it. It's not perfect (you probably need to practice finger dexterity and work on your timing for that) but it'll get you through with reasonable results (ie green/yellow rock meter).

    freakish light on
  • OmeksOmeks Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Time to make my mark on this thread.

    My friend has the worst memory. Tonight we played some BWT, and we're trying to get the achievements for completing each city. We get to Chicago and go to the Southern Setlist with Flirtin' With Disaster and Green Grass and High Tides. I hesitate, but he presses go like an idiot (he chooses bass by the way, I'm on lead). When we get to Flirtin' With Disaster:

    "Is this song hard?"

    "What the fuck? You just played this song the other day. Yes it's fucking hard on bass."

    Then we get to GG&HT:

    "Is this song hard?"

    "...no."

    Subsequently fails early in the second solo. Couldn't get enough star power to save him so we both failed. Then he quit 'cause he wanted to go home and sleep...after trudging through Mississippi Queen, Flirtin' With Disaster, and half of GG&HT.

    I wanted to murder him. HARD...

    Omeks on
    Online Info (Click Spoiler for More):
    |Xbox Live Tag: Omeks
    |PSN Tag: Omeks_R7
    |Rock Band: Profile|DLC Collection
    Omeks.png
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Houn wrote: »
    I can alt-strum ok; I find it's easiest if I start with downstrums, listen to the speed of the clicks, then flip to alt-strumming and trying to maintain that sound. I'm on a clicktastic Les Paul, though, so the sound is probably much less noticeable on a Strat.

    Now, someone teach me how to do long repeating HOPOs.

    I'm on a PS3, i.e. a strat, and I can't hear the strum if I can hear the music.

    For HO/PO's what works for me is to figure out the rhythm of the sequence first, basically THIS finger-THAT finger-THIS finger, then match that string up with the rhythm of the song so the first finger lands on the note correctly. If you're doing this in a solo section, it really helps to be doing it on the solo frets on the strat so you don't have to strum at all.

    Lord Yod on
    steam_sig.png
  • Local H JayLocal H Jay Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I just want the wireless Starts for the 360 to get out already.
    Any news on that front?

    Local H Jay on
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Oh Billy Corgan, I can see why Homer Simpson was smiling politely.

    If the C&C song is indeed not a cover, both those packs are day 1.

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
    scorpex.jpg
  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My 360 has apparently decided that rather than being a game, such as it was previously, Rock Band is now a DVD with the added bonus feature of playing a movie that is one frame long saying "This disc must be played on an Xbox 360 console".

    Off to the repair shop for the first time, while I sit at home, devoid of rock :(

    JHunz on
    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
  • midgetspymidgetspy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Lord yod: I found that grabbing the strummer and pushing it up/down while holding it doesn't work because you're moving it steadily up and down and it's "strumming" somewhere along the way (not at the very top of its motion, though). What I needed to do to not break combo double-strumming is leave my hand off the strummer and kinda hit it up and down as opposed to just moving it up and down. That way each hit moves it quickly up/down and so the strums are timed with my hits.

    BTW if you ever want to do some online let me know, in a sea of 360 users it's nice to know I'm not the *only* PS3 player, lol.

    midgetspy on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Way more PS3 users than you'd think, we just tend to not be very vocal about it around here.

    Do you just tap it down with your thumb and up with your forefinger or something? I can't seem to find a method that doesn't involve moving my whole forearm, which obviously works fine for a few bits here and there but for long sections (Creep) just makes me want to die.

    (Is your PSN midgetspy?)

    Lord Yod on
    steam_sig.png
  • midgetspymidgetspy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    PSN is FiddleHumper.

    I tap it down with my thumb and up with my middle finger. I keep my forearm braced on the guitar and just flick/rotate my wrist.

    midgetspy on
  • JRoseyJRosey Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Has anyone purchased any of those carbon fiber things for the bass pedal? I need my pedal to be invincible!

    JRosey on
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    If they released a pack of all the applicable songs for Rock Band from Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness I'd shell out so many cash, Tonight, Tonight, Zero, 1979, Bullet With Butterfly Wings = delicious.

    Edit so no double post: Here's a video of Live Forever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9GiLnZyUgM
    It's the one of the oasis songs that I've never heard of, seems kinda mellow but I'll probably just get the pack anyway.

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
    scorpex.jpg
  • Atlus ParkerAtlus Parker Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    JRosey wrote: »
    Has anyone purchased any of those carbon fiber things for the bass pedal? I need my pedal to be invincible!

    I bought one of the steel ones but I haven't had a chance to use it yet as I'm still waiting for my new bass pedal. Hopefully it comes tomorrow and I'll be able to post some impressions.

    Atlus Parker on
  • StealtharcadiaStealtharcadia Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is it foolish that I almost expected Sublime to be in an upcoming Guitar Hero/Rock Band since the original?

    Stealtharcadia on
  • existexist Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is it foolish that I almost expected Sublime to be in an upcoming Guitar Hero/Rock Band since the original?

    Sorta. I can't really think of any Sublime songs that would lend itself well to GH/RB. Plus, there is that whole profanity thing in a lot of their songs.

    exist on
    UmPiq.png
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Zero would be repetitive, I think. I'd replace it with Everlasting Gaze.

    So...these Oasis songs...

    Oasis - "Don't Look Back in Anger" Live

    Oasis - "Live Forever" Live

    Oasis - "Wonderwall" Live

    All three are from the same album...which supports my previous argument that none of the songs after What's the Story (Morning Glory) really changed for the better. Opinions opinions lol

    EDIT: AHA! I did make a mistake. "Live Forever" is from their first album Definitely Maybe.

    Arikado on
    BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | LoL: Anzen
  • StealtharcadiaStealtharcadia Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    exist wrote: »
    Is it foolish that I almost expected Sublime to be in an upcoming Guitar Hero/Rock Band since the original?

    Sorta. I can't really think of any Sublime songs that would lend itself well to GH/RB. Plus, there is that whole profanity thing in a lot of their songs.

    Yeah, mostly I would say it was the profanity though. And their more popular songs prolly wouldn't lend well. But I mean a song like Pawn Shop, or Under My Voodoo. Hell, Lincoln Highway Dub or Falling Idols would kick ass.

    Stealtharcadia on
  • RancedRanced Default Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    oh wow oasis

    how nostalgic

    i'll be getting everything but rush

    Ranced on
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztv8lsgpmmI

    Here's a link for a live version of Working Man by Rush, I'd just like to call to everyones attention the ridiculousness of that drum set, also Geddy Lee's glasses.

    Edit: There's a cutaway during a live show to the fact that theres laundry machines on the stage...

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
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  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    yeah i dont have the 1st album, but from the sounds of Don't Look Back in Anger, and obviously Wonderall, i'm buying the whole pack of Oasis.

    Zephos on
    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
  • ZephosZephos Climbin in yo ski lifts, snatchin your people up. MichiganRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    also, counting everything up there, 3 weeks after what we know (so 3 weeks after jan. 29th) we'll have 59 total songs available for download....

    for those keeping score at home thats 1 more track than was shipped on the disk, double the content (EA and DLC OLOLOL) if you're made of money, and in what, 3 months?

    keep them coming Harmonix, you have no idea how much i love Tuesdays.

    Zephos on
    Xbox One/360: Penguin McCool
  • UnbreakableVowUnbreakableVow Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    The amount of Oasis talk is making me regret creating this thread.
    I keed, I keed.
    Seriously.

    UnbreakableVow on
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    At least we're not talking about that cherry bomb song, or rockaway beach.

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
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  • Homestar GunnerHomestar Gunner Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Is anybody else confused as to why this Oasis pack does not include Rock and Roll Star? The song is perfect for the game, for obvious reasons.

    (Aside from the fact that it's an awesome song.)

    Homestar Gunner on
  • JoahWJoahW Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    exist wrote: »
    Is it foolish that I almost expected Sublime to be in an upcoming Guitar Hero/Rock Band since the original?

    Sorta. I can't really think of any Sublime songs that would lend itself well to GH/RB. Plus, there is that whole profanity thing in a lot of their songs.

    I got this fuckin' thorn in my side.
    You're so fucking special.
    A whore in sheep's clothing, fucking up all I do.

    What were you saying again?

    Edit: Also, What I Got (reprise)

    JoahW on
    Jamada.gif
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah Sublime would be fucking perfect for Rock Band. Plus, can't DLC be rated M?

    Oh and PS3 guys - before you start to think your new guitar is fucking up, your fret buttons are fucked, your strum bar is double-strumming again, do this simple step... put new batteries in. It never occurred to me that the strat would drain them so fast. (It's only been about 3 weeks since I put this set in) I was going fucking crazy. The symptom of a completely dead set is that the guitar light will be on solid but the dongle light will just keep flashing.

    Lord Yod on
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  • existexist Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    JoahW wrote: »
    exist wrote: »
    Is it foolish that I almost expected Sublime to be in an upcoming Guitar Hero/Rock Band since the original?

    Sorta. I can't really think of any Sublime songs that would lend itself well to GH/RB. Plus, there is that whole profanity thing in a lot of their songs.

    I got this fuckin' thorn in my side.
    You're so fucking special.
    A whore in sheep's clothing, fucking up all I do.

    What were you saying again?


    huh

    you know

    thats a good point.

    exist on
    UmPiq.png
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I think those are all edited in the game, I know that Creep is but not the others cause it's hard to hear in Welcome Home and I don't recognize the third one.

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
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  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    That's his point. He's saying that they can edit the words out

    and yeah, what is the "I've got this thorn in my side" from? My mind is blanking.

    Feels Good Man on
  • ArikadoArikado Southern CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I got this _________ thorn in my side - Sabotage
    You're so very special - Creep
    A wolf in sheeps clothing - Welcome Home

    Those are the edits...couple of others as well.

    Arikado on
    BNet: Arikado#1153 | Steam | LoL: Anzen
  • Feels Good ManFeels Good Man Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Ah. No wonder. As a singer I avoid that song like the plague.

    Feels Good Man on
  • couttscoutts Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    They should throw Ballad of Serenity and Faith of the Heart in this game just for mad nerd cred.

    coutts on
    Pearl FC - 2535 1604 7594 // Black FC - 2494 3438 2717
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  • Laffin LapinLaffin Lapin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I wonder if whether or not a song already exists in a radio edit form (like Creep has for years) has any part in that.

    Laffin Lapin on
  • LegacyLegacy Stuck Somewhere In Cyberspace The Grid(Seattle)Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited January 2008
    I just want the wireless Starts for the 360 to get out already.
    Any news on that front?

    I reallllly want one too.

    But I'm going to wait until a little after they come out and people have had a chance to open them up to see how sturdy they are.

    Legacy on
    Can we get the chemicals in. 'Cause anything's better than this.
  • Shady3011Shady3011 Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    My whammy bar is now also broken along with the tilt sensor. Awesome! D:

    Shady3011 on
  • SvevinSvevin Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    How do you guys handle your special meter? Especially concerning the drums. Do you activate as often as the fills appear? Or do you wait for a full bar before completing a fill? Which is better isn't as obvious as it sounds, as you can always refill your bar in the middle of an activation, prolonging its effect. Which do you guys think is better?

    Svevin on
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