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Medical School: A Tale of Career Change
Hewn
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Dear Penny Arcade H/A,
I am currently halfway through my first year of teaching high school English. My degree in literature, while interesting, never fully engaged me the way I had hoped. And not surprisingly, it has already become stale teaching Of Mice and Men and The Great Gatsby. Looking back, it's clear I never fully had a passion for literature. I'm a serviceable writer and able to teach fundamentals quite well, but in my four years of undergrad work I never truly applied myself. I still graduated with a 3.6 GPA, which I am slightly ashamed of as that number reflects the absolute minimum amount of work I'm capable of.
This is not to say the job is not fun. I actually work a tremendous school with an amazing faculty and bright students. It's a dream first year teaching position, as I was even given the opportunity to design a course curriculum from scratch - quite rare for a first year. However, my general dread at the thought of pursuing this for any length of time has made me greatly consider that it's time to accept I have the wrong major with the wrong job.
In high school I was premed bound, even shadowing doctors after school, but after years of watching my father bounce in and out of hospitals I grew weary of the places. Thus, I got out of the sciences. I regret this now, as I've had a chance to observe science courses taught at my school and find myself wishing I was that teacher.
I have reached the conclusion that a career in medicine is one of the most exciting and daunting prospects I can envision. Right up my alley. As evidenced by my desire to be a teacher, I do wish to engage in public service and help others. Still, part of what is so daunting is that I am giving up an excellent job, pay, and benefits. For example, the school system will pay for most of my graduate degree work (assuming it is in education or English, of course). The idea of leaving behind this stability is hard to accept after working to get it.
I understand that I will be required to take the medical school required courses with labs. From what I have read, this can be done as a non-degree student. Then, as I complete them, apply to medical school.
I will be seeking the advice and guidance from a family member, a graduate of Harvard medical, as well as a co-worker, a Yale medical graduate. I expect both to be tremendous resources, but I wish to leave no stone unturned in this life altering decision. This is where you come in.
If anybody could help me by providing me insight on the obstacles and challenges I face, that would be most helpful. It would be helpful to hear from medical students, graduates, or people who have gone back to school to change careers. Some challenges that come to mind: being out of study with science for over 4 years, financial burden of more undergrad/medical school, not completing my training for another 7+ years. Are there ways I can begin preparing myself, on my own time, before I even head back to school in the fall?
Cheers,
Hewn
TL;DR: English teacher wishes to change careers and go to medical school. Seeks advice from medical students, graduates, or people who have changed careers.
I am currently halfway through my first year of teaching high school English. My degree in literature, while interesting, never fully engaged me the way I had hoped. And not surprisingly, it has already become stale teaching Of Mice and Men and The Great Gatsby. Looking back, it's clear I never fully had a passion for literature. I'm a serviceable writer and able to teach fundamentals quite well, but in my four years of undergrad work I never truly applied myself. I still graduated with a 3.6 GPA, which I am slightly ashamed of as that number reflects the absolute minimum amount of work I'm capable of.
This is not to say the job is not fun. I actually work a tremendous school with an amazing faculty and bright students. It's a dream first year teaching position, as I was even given the opportunity to design a course curriculum from scratch - quite rare for a first year. However, my general dread at the thought of pursuing this for any length of time has made me greatly consider that it's time to accept I have the wrong major with the wrong job.
In high school I was premed bound, even shadowing doctors after school, but after years of watching my father bounce in and out of hospitals I grew weary of the places. Thus, I got out of the sciences. I regret this now, as I've had a chance to observe science courses taught at my school and find myself wishing I was that teacher.
I have reached the conclusion that a career in medicine is one of the most exciting and daunting prospects I can envision. Right up my alley. As evidenced by my desire to be a teacher, I do wish to engage in public service and help others. Still, part of what is so daunting is that I am giving up an excellent job, pay, and benefits. For example, the school system will pay for most of my graduate degree work (assuming it is in education or English, of course). The idea of leaving behind this stability is hard to accept after working to get it.
I understand that I will be required to take the medical school required courses with labs. From what I have read, this can be done as a non-degree student. Then, as I complete them, apply to medical school.
I will be seeking the advice and guidance from a family member, a graduate of Harvard medical, as well as a co-worker, a Yale medical graduate. I expect both to be tremendous resources, but I wish to leave no stone unturned in this life altering decision. This is where you come in.
If anybody could help me by providing me insight on the obstacles and challenges I face, that would be most helpful. It would be helpful to hear from medical students, graduates, or people who have gone back to school to change careers. Some challenges that come to mind: being out of study with science for over 4 years, financial burden of more undergrad/medical school, not completing my training for another 7+ years. Are there ways I can begin preparing myself, on my own time, before I even head back to school in the fall?
Cheers,
Hewn
TL;DR: English teacher wishes to change careers and go to medical school. Seeks advice from medical students, graduates, or people who have changed careers.
Steam: hewn
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
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Being an english teacher means you can read well, which actually serves you really well on one of the biggest blocks to getting into Med School, the MCAT. That test is a total PITA. It tests you on one year of physics, biology, general chemistry, organic chemistry, verbal reasoning, and a writing sample. It's best to take it in the spring during classes to get applications in earlier, rather than in the summer. You take it after your 2 years are up. It's difficult in that it presents totally novel information and requires you to use your background information that you have learned in classes to answer questions.
Any research you can get involved in is helpful for the application process. If you do really well in a course, you might want to talk to a professor about getting involved. Don't feel like you have to have it though, if you can't fit it into your schedule. Do make sure you do some things that you can talk about at an interview. Volunteering can be really simple, a few weekends here and there type stuff. A little bit of shadowing or clinical experience helps to show you are really interested in medicine.
I am a 2nd year med student right now. Every med student will tell you it's not worth it, that it's horrible and soul crushing and medicine is the wrong path. Like me, you will ignore them and think it's not that bad. It actually is that bad. Hopefully once I am done completely with residency and my education I won't feel that way anymore.
Med school is just about the most soul crushing experience I have ever had, and I have had some doozies before. It eats away all your time and ambition, and generally makes you a worse human being than you were when you started. Especially first year, I really only got a weekend off from cramming maybe once every two months, right after exams. I'm told it starts getting better in 3rd year however. I'm sure some others have had better experience, but everyone I know feels the same way. I am doing very well by the way, and almost no one does poorly in med school despite how difficult it is. This all can vary a bit depending on the school, but it's always difficult. The actual material itself is not to hard in medical school, it's just the sheer volume of it.
When it finally comes time to apply for med school, be sure to apply to a ton of schools. I would say 10 as an absolute bare minimum, and ideally around 20. Schools are getting more and more competitive, with too many students and too few slots.
The only reason I am in medicine is because I really could not possibly imagine doing anything else. I think it's the only reason to do it. If you would be happy in anything else, do that. I'm looking at half a million in debt and 10 years of my life pretty much squandered studying and working. Feel free to ask any other questions.
Truly I can't help but feel that yes, I am ignoring all those people that say, "It's not worth it." I can't help but feeling having the sort of knowledge and training to help people with their lives, on an extremely tangible level, is worth it. Am I truly that naive? You also referenced medical school crushing your soul. Aside from overwhelming amounts of information, is there anything else specifically that is detrimental?
I've considered the possibility of doing a variety of professions, but perhaps this is the only one that lights a fire in me that makes me think it is worth strife and struggle. I've learned at this point in my life it is not enough to merely have a good job, because I have that now. I require something that is personally challenging and fulfilling, and medicine feels like a natural fit. Canned naive answer?
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
Keep in mind that historically, different medical schools have required different pre-med courses, but they are slowly standardizing it so, for the most part, you'll need the following undergrad classes:
1 year of biology with lab
1 year of physics with lab
1 year of english
2 years of chemistry with lab (1 general/inorganic chem, 1 year organic chem)
1 year of calculus
Some schools might require 2 years of biology or 1 year of a foreign language, but those are becoming rarer. The lab requirements are the biggest pain in the ass here, because while you can CLEP out of calculus and english, you can't generally CLEP out of lab courses. (Although be forewarned that not all schools accept CLEP for all classes.)
A lot of 4-year universities offer pre-med programs specifically for career changers where some or all of the courses are offered during the evenings.
I will admit, though, that I'm having second thoughts. I haven't met a single medical school student who doesn't regret the decision, and I've met a number of physicians who have advised me very strongly not to go through with it. A couple of things that make it easier these days is that residencies are usually paid, now, where they weren't 10 or 20 years ago; also residency programs have adopted (or, in some cases, have been mandated by state law) maximum work week and shift length requirements. A 16-hour or 24-hour-long shift is fucking hard, but it's doable; I can't imagine working a 30-hour or 36-hour long shift like they did in the 1970s.
One paragraph that set off alarm bells in my head was this:
So you grew weary of hospitals while in high school... this doesn't sound like you want to be a doctor, this makes it sound like you want to be a science teacher. Medicine is like music, you make it a career only if you absolutely cannot imagine yourself doing anything else.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
As a side-note. Who really thinks they're going to do better than the Yale and Harvard grad students? :-p
My first year of university I was studying journalism, and I was doing it on a full ride. I was doing great it in, but after a year I realized I would have hated doing it for my entire life. I love writing, but, as I found out, I hate journalism.
It was a pretty big decision for me, but I gave up my full ride and transferred to another school to study engineering. I've only been doing that for about a year now, but I find it so much more interesting and challenging. With journalism, I felt like I was just trudging through it every day...I was doing great, but I didn't care. Now I'm being challenged a lot more and it definitely is hard, but it's a lot more rewarding. I was nervous about the curriculum too, jumping straight into Calc II when I had Calc I over a year earlier, but it wasn't bad at all. Your four years is a lot longer than my one, but it shouldn't be that bad if you're willing to give it your all. No matter how hard it may be to recall at the moment, everything you know about the sciences is still in your brain somewhere. :P
What helped me make my decision was just to consider the rest of my life.
Looking only a few years into the future, it was hard: Do I want to give up the campus, professors and friends I already know and start all over? No. Do I want to give up a full ride and start paying thousands out of pocket for my education? Ha, definitely not.
But looking down the road....yes, I do definitely want to be making good money at the job that keeps me challenged, interested and happy as opposed to making mediocre money at the boring job that was cheap and easy to qualify for. So...I sucked it up and went for it, and it's already starting to pay off as far as my own satisfaction with what I'm studying and the effort I'm putting forth.
From your post though, I have to ask...why med school instead of science education? You said you really do like teaching, just not English. You might have some luck in convincing your school to pay for you to go back and become a science teacher so you could have your cake and eat it too.
I didn't want to get too muddled in the personal background, but maybe it will help. My father has a medical rap sheet that could fill a textbook. Basically some of my first memories are of him in the hospital. There was a time I thought I wanted a break from that, as it got overwhelming, but as I said, I now regret that decision.
Recently visiting my father during his stays in the hospital has made me admire the work the staff has done for him. We've seen our share of average to exceptional physicians, and it is the exceptional ones that inspire this attitude in me. Seeing the difference it has made in his life, and thereby giving me a father that should have been dead when I was a child, is remarkable. I'd like to be apart of that, if possible.
The rest of your post, Feral, is laced with invaluable information. Thank you.
I'll field both Feral's and Taximes' question here. While I do believe teaching science would be more enjoyable, I'm quite certain I'd like to get out of education. As expressed, it's a very solid job with nice perks. I have fun some days. Still, it doesn't fuel me. I look around at my coworkers, and I certainly don't have the same drive and desire for education that they do. I could have a long and successful career, I'm certain, but what's the point if I feel indifferent about what I'm doing.
Taximes, as for the rest of your post... dead on. Specifically:
I, too, trudge. I'm getting exceptional evaluations from the English curriculum leader, but it doesn't seem to matter.
Everybody's questions and insights are helpful. Questioning myself is what I need to be doing here, and why this is a valuable exchange. My thanks.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
I just began classes on Tu/Th from 6-9 two weeks ago and I'll be taking the state exam in June.
The way I see it, its gonna allow me to see if I can even handle working with medicine and having people die right in front of you, basically.
It's a great field to get into as well, with Paramedics able to make upwards of 80k/yr.
Also, it's possible to juggle working as an EMT with being a teacher. One of my (four) instructors is a full-time 8th grade math teacher as well as an EMT-Intermediate (requires a year's experience as a EMT-B, usually referred to as Trauma Techs, which means they can start medications and do IVs and such) AND teaches our EMT class every couple of weeks.
So thats just my two cents.
I totally understand that you will ignore all the people who say it isn't worth it. That's what you do in your position. It's what I did. I guess I still think it's worth it. It's really hard though, and you just can't fathom how hard it is until you actually do it. I've never been one to have problems studying, but med school is just different somehow.
Medical School sucks the life out of you and residency sucks out whatever is left. At the end you have an average $160K in debt which forces you to choose fields of practice that pay highly, whether you like it or not. My passion was family practice and I chose it because I didn't want to be doing something I didn't enjoy. But I know *many* that have chosen to be a subspecialist, just for the money, with disregard to whether they actually enjoy it or not. This leads to frustration and eventually burnout. If you are going to do something day in and day out for the rest of your life, you have to be sure you like it.
The healthcare system as it is turns you into a secretary half the time, filling out parking permits, prior authorisation to get insurances to cover services and medicines patients need, appealing said prior authorisations when insurances deny them (usually by a desk monkey who knows nothing about medicine) because your concsience won't simply let it go, dealing with attorneys filing for people with disability, looking up diagnosis codes so that medicare will pay for needed labs, sometimes lying so the patient gets what he/she needs... the list goes on.
I would suggest that you spend some time shadowing a physician, preferably in primary care (where you will see a variety of diseases, patients, frustrations etc.) for a good month or two and then making your decision. I do not know many in my field that are actually happy with their careers even though we all came into this for the right reasons.
Best of luck.
There was a part of me that dreaded the idea of retail pharmacy with all the stereotypes of pill counters and such but I learned that there are great opprotunities elsewhere. I am graduating and will work in a hospital and I know that I will make a difference in patient's lives, I get to work collaboratively with other health care professionals and work with patients to improve care. I part of me is jelous of the education background that you have because that can be a huge benifit to patients.
So why did I type all of this? Well, remember that doctors are not the only ones that help people in the health care system, and there are a variety of "science based" things that you could pursue. Don't forget about them, some of them finish a lot quicker than a doctor, and while they never are the top of the totem pole, look up a few posts and you will see the doctor say that even doctors aren't always the top of the totem pole (which in a lot of ways seems silly but that is the way it is...)
Anyways I hope to get you thinking anyways, I love pharmacy
I want to comment on this. I'm in med school right now, and I really have not found it to be this way. Sure you can spend 10-12 hours a day studying...there's always something you could be studying, but not everyone does. Not everyone needs to or wants to, and they still do fine. Some treat it as an 8-5 thing, like a job, then maybe ramp it up the week before a test. I have class from 8-12 every weekday. A couple afternoons a week, I have obligations like communication labs, physical diagnosis + patient visits, small group discussion, or electives. The other afternoons are completely free if I want them to be. Lots of the people in my class are pretty co-operative - lots of people see it as a team effort. Sure, there's going to be Gunners, but your going to run into those no matter what you do. So what if there's some people who work way more than you, who are way more intense. Who cares? Get a good GPA, do good on your boards, get good recs, do good on your interviews, then get a residency you hopefully want. How does some jackass gunner affect that in the long run? Those responsibilities fall in your hands, not theirs. Will they try and outshine you on rotations? Yeah. But guess what? Nobody likes a gunner. Most of the time on your rotations you're going to be with a resident anyways, and they just got out of med school and remember exactly what it was like to have one asshole trying to make everyone else look bad. If it bothers you, just don't let it happen. There's people in my class with wives, with children, with jobs, and they still do ok.
You can have a life, you can have friends, you can have fun, you can have free time (just less of it than some would like). If people can have and raise kids during med school, internship, and residency, and still do well, then you can make time for anything. There are some people who spend all day, every day in the library. There are some people who are rarely there, and who party when they feel like it. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. You can strike a balance at whatever point works best for you.
Is it hard? Yeah. Is our healthcare system pretty broken? Yeah. Will you have to deal with assholes? Always, whether you're a doctor, a lawyer, a bum, or a professional kite-flyer - always (and you'll especially have to deal with them if you want to be a proctologist....zing?). Is there a lot of stuff to be bitter about? Yeah, and it only gets worse, but it's not worth the effort to put out all that bitterness. Work hard, relax when you can, and focus on what you need to do to get the job done and not what other folks are doing.
It's challenging, but that's one of my favorite things about it. If you're lucky, you get great teachers and you learn lots of incredible things. It's a very long road, though. Time to prep before med school + MCAT, then 4 years of med school, then one year of internship, then 3-5 years of residency, then 1-3 years of fellowship if you want. I highly recommend spending more time shadowing and just talking to doctors. There's lots of stuff to deter anyone from wanting to take this path. If you still want to do it after learning all the downsides, then you should consider it. If you have doubts, then be careful. You don't want to get to med school and then become bitter, depressed, and disillusioned. I already see it happening with my classmates. For that last part you should go ahead and dispell any illusions you may already have. It's not a romantic conquest, where the hero doctor saves lives all day every day. Some people may treat you like shit. Some patients may hate you, some may flat-out ignore you completely.
I'm already rambling, so I'll try and tie it up pretty quick. Think long and hard about it, spend more time with various doctors. If you want to do it, make a solid plan, and go for it. If you're worried about how long it takes, there's a few people around 30 years old in the first year class, some with kids, so don't worry about being too old to start.
I still agree with a lot of stuf Svelte says, though. It will crush you. It will shatter your spirit and your motivation. It will be the hardest thing you've ever done, don't get me wrong. You will miss some of your friends. I just wanted to say it was doable, and you can still have a life. It's just not as easy as it used to be. The stuff about the residency hours is definitely true, but it depends on what specialty and which hospital you work at. Some surgery residents clock out after the 80 hour limit, then get right back to work. Other places are very strict about it. Slowly, the idea of "the doctor who sleeps the least and works the longest is the best" is fading. Some schools and some hospitals are realizing they would rather have happier doctors, healthier doctors, not doctors with impaired skills and judgement after a forced 100 hour work week.
I suggest you consider other roles you might play in the same environment: physician assistant, nurse practictioner, nurse, physical therapist. All of these and others contribute in no small part to how well a patient is treated and cared for. They also don't require you to go through the gauntlet that is medical school. Whatever you decide, definitely take some time to volunteer at a hospital or shadow a physician for a couple of months.
I am in medical school as well and I want to reiterate what he said. You will have free time, it is not all work. I find that most people I know that are still in school by now for whatever reason (law, business, grad) all have a lot of work to do as well. One thing that really compelled me to do medicine is that even after you do medschool and you find out "damn i hate this job" there are tons of other job opportunities out there for you that have very little to do with actual patient care. It is an incredible flexible degree. Everything in life is what you make out of it. If anything persuades you not to do the med thing, don't let it be bitter old frustrated docs that have been in their profession for 20 years and got stuck in a rut.
If you guys have time to read old and contradictory studies I googled in about 10 minutes, I recommend a peek:
http://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/news/happy_docs.html
http://www.hms.harvard.edu/news/releases/0103landon.html
http://www.med-ed-online.org/res00089.htm
http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/employment/2005-05-23-prestige-usat_x.htm
http://www.gpscholar.uthscsa.edu/gpscholar/FacultyScholars/cr/genmed/library/aimvol162pg1577.pdf
You always end up asking yourself: Would i have been happier studying biology, engineering, chemistry? It doesn't matter, at some point in your life you just have to strap yourself in and go for it. There will be plenty of opportunities for fulfillment along the way. Plus, with all those sub specialities, if you find out you really liked biology more than anything else, you can study specialize in something that is right up your alley like virology or parasitology.
That's a good point I didn't think of. There are so many sub-specialties you can eventually go into. Every specialty has several different paths to take depending on what you want to do. Internal Medicine alone has at least a dozen choices. You can even sub-sub-specialize if you so desire. There's a fit for whatever you could possibly want to do as a doctor. You could even go into academic medicine and teach the next generation of students.
Btw, the people in my class all come from different backgrounds, too. There's several English majors in there.
I'd also like to echo the point witch_le made about the support/allied health roles. There are tons of jobs in healthcare that you may be happier with.
Personally, I'm really happy with where I am. It's really hard work, but I love what I'm learning and I'm looking forward to practicing medicine.
Just out of curiosity, how long did it take you to become a pharmacist, and how difficult was your graduate program?
I'll point out that I work for a pharma consulting firm right now... some of our consultants and many of our clients are non-practicing MDs. MDs end up working in a lot of different areas in pharma and insurance, whether they're interpreting clinical trial data or trying to get regulatory bodies to approve drugs. So what X3x3non says here rings true for me.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Interestingly enough in my province they recently allowed pharmacist the ability to adapt and continue prescriptions, opening up a lot more support for MDs in the community and some novel support areas in hospital.
Medical school courses here are largely (90%) undergraduate, lasting 5-6 years for the most part. The workload increases year on year, but from the replies in this thread so far, I can say with some certainty that our workload (from the first 2 years) is nowhere near your guys, at least outside of exam period.
Anyway, the point of my post; you should consider applying abroad. The costs for international students are still significantly lower for you than being a home student in America, so it's certainly worth having a look into. You should also consider Australia, which uses a similar system.
I did my student teaching in New Zealand, and it was the best few months of my life.
This certainly piques my curiosity. Thanks for the heads up.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf
There's quite a few internationals on the course at my university (I'd say 15-20%), many unis won't accept overseas students so it's best e-mailing all the institutions and finding out. There are also graduate courses at some schools which tend to last 4 years, these are more competitive though.
The obvious downside to all this is, you'll have to take extra exams in order to practice in America.
I thought I would update all you good folks on what I've been up to the last few months. I am, of course, still teaching high school English with a respectable amount of success. My school has made it clear they'd like to retain me (not true of several new teachers this year, ouch for them). There has been days where I recognize this could be a great place for me to carve out a niche, but ultimately it would feel like settling, and that scares me more than any brand of failure.
With that in mind, I have decided to give my full attention to attending medical school. I have talked extensively with folks attending medical school, as well as nurses, and physician's assistants. Many people cited "time" as one of the contributing factors as to not pursue being a physician, but as a 24-year-old with no attachments, I find myself with heaps of time. Granted, this may change, but I'd rather not plan my time commitments on "what if."
I have already spoken with several pre-med directors at the universities I'm considering attending. Their message was very positive about students they have witnessed in my position, and it helped restore some confidence in my decision after I have heard some very negative opinions expressed. Certainly, they all grilled me upon my intentions and commitment to the program, and so I seem to have a solid understanding of what is ahead of me for the next two years and beyond.
For the first time in my life I feel like I have found myself and I'm actually doing something about it. I can't remember ever being so excited about school. So excited about anything, really! Friends have offered me alternative routes, even jobs, but nothing else captures me the same way.
Thank you to everybody that contributed to this thread. I've read it dozens of times. I have no doubt I will seek your advice again, as this is only the first step in a long journey, one that will be filled with hardships and more difficult questions.
Warframe: TheBaconDwarf