The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
Oy vey, here's a girl thread.
Drez
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
So, in a nutshell...
I went out with a Girl the other night. I'm going to call her Girl. She has a boyfriend. I'll call him Guy. I've known Girl for about three years now. I worked at the same company as Girl though we were never in the same department. Girl and I became very close friends. I fell in love with Girl. Girl either didn't want me in that way or didn't know what she wanted. After five and a half months of trials and tribulations that ran the emotional gamut from serenity and satisfaction to solitude and sorrow, I gave up and decided to put distance between us. We liked each other, but I wanted an actual relationship and she either didn't want one or wasn't ready for one. We needed distance. I loved her and our hanging out would always devolve into drama (scratch that, melodrama). She's a few years younger than me, but that is irrelevant; we're both adults. At least I guess we are.
I put Girl out of my mind. I realize now that I was slowly but surely building a shell, a protective emotional barrier against her. I mean, she and I would hang out for like eight hours every other day and talk about everything shallow and deep. I stopped. I stopped calling her. I stopped returning her calls. Basically I pretended that I felt nothing toward her. I did a pretty good job at self-deception, actually, and I think I convinced myself more than I convinced her because for all our distance, she would still email or IM or call me at random. I admit I called now and then but it was usually perfunctory and hollow and I think I was trying to convey deadness, because that's what I was trying to feel.
I don't want to betray her confidence so I won't go into unnecessary specifics, but long story short she found me on Facebook a few months ago and invited me to her housewarming party (she moved in with two girls). There I met Guy. He's another coworker and they were dating for a few weeks or so at that point. Guy and Girl have now been dating for about four months.
Anyway, we had plans I kept delaying about going out together. In January, after New Years, she messaged me saying "so when are we hanging out." I invited her to "drinks and dinner" the next week. This was Friday.
We had a pretty long and deep conversation, longer and deeper than I had ever remembered us having, even before. I wasn't expecting much: a catch-up, really - me telling her about my new job, her telling me about her boyfriend Guy and current events in her life. Et cetera. But that's not what happened. Our meeting was the opposite of superficial and catch-uppy. Well we caught up, but not in the traditional "oh this is what I've been doing for the last 18 months" kind of way.
That shell I had built? Gone, dissolved completely in six hours of conversation.
Girl told me that she really missed me all this time. That was the beginning, before we even started drinking. Then after a few beers, Girl tells me "I should hang out with you more often. I should see you more than I see Guy."
What...did...that...mean?
I didn't get the impression that she was just looking for attention, but could it just have been that? I suppose that's a hard judgment to make without knowing her and even your advice here might not be relevant as you don't have all the context and history I have, but the impression I got from our conversing is that she wasn't ready for a relationship when I was hanging out with her two or so years ago, that I caught her at a bad time or whatever, but that now isn't such a bad time anymore.
I'm trying to figure out if that comment meant what I think it meant.
Overally, I've never been happier or felt more comfortable with someone, and she told me the same thing on Friday...that she trusts me more than anyone else, that I was a better friend than any other, and that she was sad that we hadn't hung out or spoken in so long. In fact, she told me she missed me when I got her alone for a few minutes at her housewarming. I was not expecting or prepared for any of this and I think that comment is telling...or maybe it isn't and I'm reading too much into it, which I can do and which gets me into trouble. Though I've no idea what else she could mean. Can anyone provide an interpretation?
P.S. Just to get this out of the way, this is my opinion on the morality of stealing Girl from Guy: I don't care. I saw her first, they've only been going out for four months, and I'm ultimately not responsible for her decisions. All's fair in love and war, blah blah blah. I'm really just looking for interpretation of her behavior and comments. I mean, feel free to say what you want about me but as far as I'm concerned I'm wholly justified in taking her from Guy if I could and even if I'm not justified I'd do it anyway given the chance.
I went out with a Girl the other night. I'm going to call her Girl. She has a boyfriend. I'll call him Guy. I've known Girl for about three years now. I worked at the same company as Girl though we were never in the same department. Girl and I became very close friends. I fell in love with Girl. Girl either didn't want me in that way or didn't know what she wanted. After five and a half months of trials and tribulations that ran the emotional gamut from serenity and satisfaction to solitude and sorrow, I gave up and decided to put distance between us. We liked each other, but I wanted an actual relationship and she either didn't want one or wasn't ready for one. We needed distance. I loved her and our hanging out would always devolve into drama (scratch that, melodrama). She's a few years younger than me, but that is irrelevant; we're both adults. At least I guess we are.
I put Girl out of my mind. I realize now that I was slowly but surely building a shell, a protective emotional barrier against her. I mean, she and I would hang out for like eight hours every other day and talk about everything shallow and deep. I stopped. I stopped calling her. I stopped returning her calls. Basically I pretended that I felt nothing toward her. I did a pretty good job at self-deception, actually, and I think I convinced myself more than I convinced her because for all our distance, she would still email or IM or call me at random. I admit I called now and then but it was usually perfunctory and hollow and I think I was trying to convey deadness, because that's what I was trying to feel.
I don't want to betray her confidence so I won't go into unnecessary specifics, but long story short she found me on Facebook a few months ago and invited me to her housewarming party (she moved in with two girls). There I met Guy. He's another coworker and they were dating for a few weeks or so at that point. Guy and Girl have now been dating for about four months.
Anyway, we had plans I kept delaying about going out together. In January, after New Years, she messaged me saying "so when are we hanging out." I invited her to "drinks and dinner" the next week. This was Friday.
We had a pretty long and deep conversation, longer and deeper than I had ever remembered us having, even before. I wasn't expecting much: a catch-up, really - me telling her about my new job, her telling me about her boyfriend Guy and current events in her life. Et cetera. But that's not what happened. Our meeting was the opposite of superficial and catch-uppy. Well we caught up, but not in the traditional "oh this is what I've been doing for the last 18 months" kind of way.
That shell I had built? Gone, dissolved completely in six hours of conversation.
Girl told me that she really missed me all this time. That was the beginning, before we even started drinking. Then after a few beers, Girl tells me "I should hang out with you more often. I should see you more than I see Guy."
What...did...that...mean?
I didn't get the impression that she was just looking for attention, but could it just have been that? I suppose that's a hard judgment to make without knowing her and even your advice here might not be relevant as you don't have all the context and history I have, but the impression I got from our conversing is that she wasn't ready for a relationship when I was hanging out with her two or so years ago, that I caught her at a bad time or whatever, but that now isn't such a bad time anymore.
I'm trying to figure out if that comment meant what I think it meant.
Overally, I've never been happier or felt more comfortable with someone, and she told me the same thing on Friday...that she trusts me more than anyone else, that I was a better friend than any other, and that she was sad that we hadn't hung out or spoken in so long. In fact, she told me she missed me when I got her alone for a few minutes at her housewarming. I was not expecting or prepared for any of this and I think that comment is telling...or maybe it isn't and I'm reading too much into it, which I can do and which gets me into trouble. Though I've no idea what else she could mean. Can anyone provide an interpretation?
P.S. Just to get this out of the way, this is my opinion on the morality of stealing Girl from Guy: I don't care. I saw her first, they've only been going out for four months, and I'm ultimately not responsible for her decisions. All's fair in love and war, blah blah blah. I'm really just looking for interpretation of her behavior and comments. I mean, feel free to say what you want about me but as far as I'm concerned I'm wholly justified in taking her from Guy if I could and even if I'm not justified I'd do it anyway given the chance.
Switch: SW-7690-2320-9238Steam/PSN/Xbox: Drezdar
Drez on
0
Posts
However, if you do go for it, and things get awkward again, or she doesn't return the interest, you need to let it go.
Yes. It could have been.
Don't get your hopes up, is my advice to you.
What it was, instead of being awkward, was a complete disaster all across the board. Its like we had a bipolar relationship way back when: extreme highs, extreme lows. When discussing it with people, I usually compared it to War of the Roses, minus the marriage.
edit: No, we don't all work together anymore. Though Girl and Guy are in the same group, though the relationship is clandestine there.
If you're comparing a relationship to war of the roses then maybe you do need to consider letting this one go.
Maybe something. Probably nothing. I done that man, the whole obsessing about one single line of conversation, trying to figure out just exactly what it meant. Don't do that to yourself.
The girl knows how you feel about her right? If she does, I would suggest just being upfront about her. Not necessarily telling her you love her, but saying something like "I have strong feelings for you, and I can't just hang out with you if there's not a chance of it going somewhere".
Don't steal the girl, don't push her, but if you guys go out more and something starts to happen, you MUST tell her that she has to break up with Guy if you guys start to get serious. That's what will cause the tension and will either make or break the relationship. If it turns out to be nothing, you should take that as a sign that nothing's ever going to change and you should either stay only her friend or nothing at all.
I told her that long ago. Both of those things. "I love you" and "I can't just hang out with you if there's not a chance of it going somewhere" though I worded the latter differently. She knows that's why we haven't really spoken in so long. In fact, we discussed even that on Friday. I just acted as smoothly as possible without committing myself to any kind of emotion on Friday but she was all over the map.
Then the ball is in her court right? Her saying "I should hang out with you more often. I should see you more than I see Guy" is kinda crap though, especially if she knows how you genuinely feel. It sounds kinda manipulative to me, like keeping you on the hook (providing her energy/support/companionship) while she goes and has some other guy as a boyfriend.
If you already were in a relationship with someone, would they be OK with how you feel for "Girl" and the kind of relationship you have with "Girl"?
this is tricky as I'm sure you've figured out by now. I always promised myself to never be the "other guy." Let her know your feelings for her, as I'm sure she does, but in a more direct manner. Tell her. Go out, sit down and talk about this. But tell her that while you have these feelings, you have more respect for yourself than to let her play along with whatever game she's playing. She needs to make a decision. If she wants to be with you more, if she wants to talk to you more, or whatever... she needs to quit leading the other guy astray.
Correct. I don't have much advice on the girl situation; the whole friend to relationship is on this forum so much it's depressing to me how many guys (including myself) have suffered that problem. However, you can't worry about any prior relationship that doesn't involve a ring, especially one as young as this one. I've noticed people posting stuff like "How would you feel blah blah" and all I have to say is that whether they know it or not everyone's girlfriend has been approached by guys who know she's not single. If the relationship is right she'll rebuff and if it's not you'll start seeing shit like what you're describing (in my opinion, I think this looks promising for you).
PSN: TheScrublet
I hear ya, and I think there's merit in this approach but at the same time - and I know this from personal experience - full disclosure/full honesty is not always the best policy. It's quite easy to talk yourself out of a relationship before it starts even if you are compatible with the person you are, ah, courting.
She doesn't want you, she enjoys your adulation. She is going to take your compliments and unfaltering love, be a nice girl and never let you down too harshly and you will continue thinking that she might some day return your feelings. But that day will not come.
This might not be true, but history and statistics are on my side.
Tell me, what on earth has changed between now and last time that makes you think she wants you this time?
https://medium.com/@alascii
That's a good question and there have been changes for both of us. I'd rather not get too personal or divulge anything she told me in confidence because it just wouldn't be right and I feel her trust in me would be misplaced. But I definitely got a "different person" sense from her. Also, her body language was very different. She kept hugging me. She kept coming close. I am nearly positive I could have kissed her without her pulling away but I just acted a bit aloof anyway. Also, the nature of our talk was...intimate.
So ultimately, what's changed between then and now? I think she's grown up. And I think I have too.
I do trust her. Whether she is ready to be in an intimate relationship with me or not, I don't doubt that she misses me. I'm sure she wants my attention, but whether she wants it for attention's sake or if she specifically wants mine is something I actually tussled with for the last two years. Basically, on Friday, she made me feel like my attention was worth more than so many others and I am pretty sure she's being honest because I understand her on some level, psychologically. I know where's she's from, where she's been, and to an extent I know how she thinks. She knows how I think too. I think she really wants a confidant and she really wants me to be there for her. Whether or not she's interested in me romantically is what I'm trying to figure out, but I doubt she's just looking for attention even though I posed that as a hypothetical. That doesn't mean I'm not wrong, but I don't think she's using me. That wasn't even our problem last time. The fact that I loved her is what drove us apart. She didn't want the flattery last time. What she wanted was a friendship and what I wanted was a relationship. It was that disparity that ended our friendship for so long. She never used me. I don't think she's looking to do that now either.
Sorry, I know it sounds like I'm arguing, and I am, and I appreciate your opinion. I guess this is kind of therapeutic: to look at other perspectives and judge them based on what I know. Because it's easy to blind oneself; trust me, I know that. It's helpful to get other opinions, look at them, and weigh them out. So, thank you even if I don't agree.
You've been messed up by this whole situation for so long that it really should come to a closing now. There's always other people who could be just as awesome as this girl, but you won't notice them if you're going to keep hanging out with her so much. This wouldn't be a problem if your relation with this girl was a satisfactory one for you, but it isn't. I say you should make it absolutely clear to Girl that she should make a decision and that she shouldn't wait long with it.
That's a good point. When I hang out with her, I tend to let other people slide away.
I didn't mean to make her sound manipulative or anything. She never, ever was. Our problem stemmed from me wanting one type of relationship and her wanting another type of relationship. We got along very, very well together in the beginning. We still did even when things went sour. It was never that, and we both wanted a relationship with the other person, but I wanted a romantic one and she didn't or wasn't ready or whatever. She even admitted she was attracted to me but she had emotional problems or whatever and just wouldn't start one. Plus I went about it entirely the wrong way two years ago.
I'm certainly not trying to manipulate her in return, but always being mister quick with the truth isn't always the most healthy way to interact with someone you like either, that's all I'm saying. Basically when you do that it sounds like an ultimatum. "Hi, I love you, either love me in kind or get the fuck away from me." I don't want to do that, even if most of that is subtext.
Also I wasn't trying to say that you guys don't have a good friendship, I'm sure you do. I'm sure your both very open with each other, which gives you an advantage over most of the people who find themselves in these sort of threads.
Okay- here's the thing. I've tried to type out a few different ways to convince you that she (probably) isn't interested in you. I realise that I can't. Just know that emotional intimacy does not prelude physical intimacy.
Why are you so sure she wanted a relationship with you?
https://medium.com/@alascii
Then again, I hate subtlety and like making decisions fast.
Only thing I can advice you is to keep your head cool and make it clear to her that you are looking for a romantic relationship. She has some decisions to make and hopefully she'll make the right one and hook up with you.
"From what you've said it sounds pretty clear to me that she is not romantically interested in you."
Can you please be more specific? Most people in the thread seem to disagree with you insofar as it not being at least a possibility. A few others are merely skeptical. You've only stated that "statistics and history" are on your side, but nothing else. Can you please tell me what, in particular, I've communicated that specifically makes you think she's not romantically interested? Right now what's coming across in your post is just cynicism.
I mean, it seems as if you think people cannot change their minds about who they are romantically interested in. And it was never a problem of lack of physical attraction between us. We were both, if I believe her, attracted to each other then and she seemed even more...interested...now. Like I said, her body language was different. More inviting and she was generally a lot closer than before.
I'm not sure at all. If I were, this thread wouldn't exist. But her language did seem like she had a new interest in me. I'm not saying she's definitely interested in me, but you seem to think there is no possibility and I don't see what you are getting from all I've said to draw that conclusion. Help me out?
That's not what I'm getting from DodgeBlan. There's a difference between "don't get your hopes up, this may not mean anything romantic" or "I don't see anything romantic in what you're saying" and "no, I can almost guarantee she's not romantically interested in you." That latter, which is what DodgeBlan is basically saying, implies that something I've said doesn't indicate the absence of romantic interest but rather implies the opposite of romantic interest. If I'm reading too much into this, that's fine. But to say "no, based on all that she definitely doesn't want you" is another thing entirely.
I should also note that I relayed the details of my...meeting...with a (married) female friend that I've known for 10 years. I'm not saying that males cannot give good relationship advice or anything, but I do have to give my female friend's opinion a little more weight, and yes that is partly by nature of her being female. She's awfully brutal too...in fact, she was the one that told me that it would probably never work out with this girl two years ago. And granted she's just getting the details from me but I think I laid them out fairly objectively. In her opinion, this was the girl's way of nudging me romantically. So I suppose my friend's opinion is kind of contributing to my hope, somewhat.
First of all, I see several red flags.
The number one being that she has a boyfriend. The same boyfriend she had before, no less.
The number two being that you've been down this road before, and you're only thing that you can say to convince me that she has developed feelings for you is 'a change in body language' and a 'changed person vibe'.
The fact is, you are so smitten with her you are going that as soon as you guys have a deep conversation I'm sure you will immediately feel that bond rekindled.
I'm assuming Evyl is a girl (its a pretty damn girly name) but thats a good insight into whats probably going on in her head.
And if you are so sure that she wanted you last time, what the hell went wrong?
I know I sound like a dickhead- but the fact is I don't have to prove that she doesn't like you, you have to prove that she does like you. I'm arguing the neutral state and you are arguing the changed state.
Basically hugs, and "I should hang out with you more often, more than my boyfriend" don't mean shit. As a matter of fact that phrase itself is a huge read flag. We've seen it here in a million variations to the same result.
If she was really attracted to you, the thing would feel risky and dangerous, because she is in danger of betraying her boyfriend who regardless of what she says to you I'm sure she cares about. Basically the night you describe is a warm gathering with a one sided sexual tension that she feels perfectly comfortable in, because she knows she is in control.
And again, I'm sorry I sound like a cynical dickhead.
https://medium.com/@alascii
First of all, I see several red flags.
The number one being that she has a boyfriend. The same boyfriend she had before, no less.
The number two being that you've been down this road before, and you're only thing that you can say to convince me that she has developed feelings for you is 'a change in body language' and a 'changed person vibe'.
The fact is, you are so smitten with her you are going that as soon as you guys have a deep conversation I'm sure you will immediately feel that bond rekindled.
I'm assuming Evyl is a girl (its a pretty damn girly name) but thats a good insight into whats probably going on in her head.
And if you are so sure that she wanted you last time, what the hell went wrong?
I know I sound like a dickhead- but the fact is I don't have to prove that she doesn't like you, you have to prove that she does like you. I'm arguing the neutral state and you are arguing the changed state.
Basically hugs, and "I should hang out with you more often, more than my boyfriend" don't mean shit. As a matter of fact that phrase itself is a huge read flag. We've seen it here in a million variations to the same result.
If she was really attracted to you, the thing would feel risky and dangerous, because she is in danger of betraying her boyfriend who regardless of what she says to you I'm sure she cares about. Basically the night you describe is a warm gathering with a one sided sexual tension that she feels perfectly comfortable in, because she knows she is in control.
And again, I'm sorry I sound like a cynical dickhead.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Put it this way -- He already told her way back when "I'm into you." She said "sorry, not gonna work." Now, she's getting ahold of him again. She *knows* he was into her, and they have a history of already going through the honesty thing and the not gonna work thing. Yet she's trying to hang out with him more, and no doubt he has more information that would make it seem more intimate to him than he's letting on (because, as he said, he respects her privacy etc.).
But that also means that there really isn't a ton of advice to give. I mean, we could have a 5 page thread of people saying she's either into him or not, and him responding with his hunches, but at the end of the day it doesn't solve anything. I think the best course of action is to just not be "that guy" who tries to date a girl with a boyfriend. If she wants to do more things with you, but doesn't say anything about the boyfriend other than reiterating their "together" status, then assume it's a friendship. If she says things aren't working out, then say you support her decision but you're not going to jump in and break them up, even if you like her. And if she starts putting moves on you and is still seeing Guy, you probably want to tell her to dump Guy if she's serious, or walk away and say you can't do it. It'll just lead to more ugly drama usually leaving you single and heartbroken.
Has she talked about the boyfriend? That's the more important element of the conversations, at this point. She obviously likes you enough to hang out with you, but if she's happy with her boy and not looking to leave him, then that sort of answers your question.
Of course you think it's objective. Usually whenever someone wants another person to like them they'll agonize over little details and they'll paint things positively when they relay it to friends because they want to hear that the person likes them. Now maybe that hasn't happened in this case and you're truly being objective.
In any case, she seems like the type that's going to jerk you around for the attention/whatnot as someone suggested.
Since you said that you're both fairly open and honest and blunt with each other, just ask her if she's interested and go from there. It doesn't help anyone to sit around analyzing it forever. If she is then great, go ahead. If she isn't then fine. If she isn't and it gets weird, no big deal because before now you were trying to distance yourself from her anyway, so no loss.
I'm not sure what you mean by this? This boyfriend is brand new.
As to the rest, you may well be right. I DO have a tendency to read too much into things which is what worries me. It cuts both ways...either I'm too optomistic or too pessimistic. Sometimes I get it right though.
Probably true and I kind of knew that going in but I wanted to get all this out there into the aether anyway.
Well, I don't have a problem stealing her away but it'll definitely have to be one or the other if it comes to that. I'm not going to cheat with her or anything.
Yes...a lot actually and while I've wanted to talk about this I'm not sure how to without getting too specific and if I'm too general I feel I may convey the wrong thing. To sum it up as best as possible, this is what she said: "I know he loves me and he treats me better than I deserve." That was one thing. I said "it seems like he likes you more than you like him" and she said "definitely." But then there is one thing bothering her about him. And she was asking me for my opinion on it. And she kept coming back to it, asking for my opinion. And she even...cried at one point.
Thoughts?
It could be that she's subconsciously either a) feeling a little guilty about that and - as people do from time to time - playing herself into the "I don't deserve it" scenario or b) could be looking for validation that she is desirable and should, in fact, be treated well.
It just feels to me like the whole thing is very much the same situation we see here so often.
If I were you the fact that she was talking about her bf alot would set off alarm bells that he is the one who occupies her mind, not myself.
But you want my advice?
I say go for it, be direct and passionate and try to win her over. Don't say "I'm here for you when you need me". Say "Hop on my magic rocket ship and lets take a ride to some awesome dimension".
I just don't think she likes you in that way that you like her.
You should still go for it though.
https://medium.com/@alascii
Also, any relationship that starts w/ one person cheating on their old boyfriend with you is doomed.
Ignore any of this at your own peril.
Seemxs to me she just needed a shoulder to cry on. Like someone said, if the conversation kept coming back to her bf, then he's on her mind more than anyone else.
Just lay it all on the table man. Don't pussy foot or wait for her to make the move. Cause then everytime you see each other, you'll be the same, going through everything she said and trying to figure out what it means.
Now she wants to get back to the point before you killed the relationship... obviously she's going to try something new to win you back as a friend since what she was doing before wasn't working.
I'm sorry, but that's that. You cast her away because she wasn't interested in you and now you want her back... moreover you feel justified in wanting her back. To the point where you'd steal her away from her current guy. You saw her first? What the hell kind of a justification is that? Yeah, she voiced her concerns about her current boy toy with you... she "trusts" you. "Trust," in this context, most likely means, "I can be open with you about my personal problems and issues, even the most intimate of them, and you wont take advantage of my vulnerability and exploit it to your own personal gain." Basically, she needs you as a friend right now. If you don't want to be her friend then tell her. Don't just disappear again.
You've put this girl through enough.
See, I said I wouldn't argue and that you can say what you want about my morality and whatnot, but you have absolutely no justification for saying "you've put this girl through enough." What the fuck kind of statement is that? I "put her through enough" by distancing myself when it was clear that our disparity was ruining both of our lives? What would have been the right thing to do two years ago? Keep as close as possible until we both killed ourselves? Our separation obviously came up on Friday. She said she understood why it happened. If you want to judge me for stealing her or belittle my "I saw her first" I don't care. As I said, I don't even care to justify myself. I don't need to. I don't even care what *I* think about the moral implications here, much less what you think. But to tell me that I "put this girl through enough" based on this thread? Holy shit I want to smack you. You have no idea what the two of us "put" each other "through."
To everyone else: I think you may be right. Who knows. I'm probably just looking for someone to trust myself, because I really enjoyed my time with her even though it was painful. But it's probably not to be.
Here's what happened to me: Paul, let's call him, was a very good friend of mine. We'd talk about everything, trade massages, etc. I know he liked me but he also knew I wasn't interested, going so far as dating other people. He finally told me, "Well, if you don't want to be intimate with me, then just don't talk to me anymore." That was so incredibly hurtful: you've basically just told her that her company wasn't worth it if she wouldn't give you teh sweet lovins (exaggeration).
It seems like your heart's in the right place, but if you really are as close as you say you are, I think her comments about her relationship are just her enjoying having a confidant who, as you said yourself, knows how she thinks. She would probably be telling a close girlfriend the same things if she was close to anyone else the way you are.
As for the "attention seeking," yes, she probably does care about your attention and regard more than other people. That doesn't mean it's romantic! I want my dad to think the world of me -- and that's where that stops.
Perhaps someday she might change her mind. People do change, and she might realize that, hey, I do like Drez, I wonder if he might still be into me. But then, she may not come to that conclusion ever. Yes, you have every right to pursue her/show interest, and there's nothing wrong about her leaving her boyfriend for you. But, do know that if she turns you down, don't push it. Obsession is not cute.
And please, please, enjoy her as a person if she's as wonderful as you say she is. You say you want someone to trust: you can do this with friends! Try it.
Thank you...that is helpful.
I just want to note that I never ever told her "if you don't want to be intimate with me, we can't be friends." It's precisely because I didn't want to give her such an ultimatum that I kind of...faded away. I didn't want o hurt her. I didn't want to hurt myself either. I just didn't want to upset her all the time; I mean it's really hard to explain it here...we would hang out and it would be very meaningful but also extremely painful, and for both of us. I wanted too much of her attention. But I know people that have been friends, biding their time, and that is not what I did with her. Never. I told her right away how I felt. I didn't hang on to her because I thought she might change her mind about me...I told her how I felt and we struggled through it. Sometimes you struggle and you just can't strike a balance...and two years ago, a balance just wasn't possible for us.
She knows I love her. We spoke about love on Friday. She mentioned something about how a few guys have said it to her but only one or two have meant it. I told her that I meant it when I said it. I don't care: the truth is I did and do love her. It was never about sex. I wanted her love. I mean, sure, I wanted to love her in that way too, but that was the least important thing.
What happens now is up to fate, chance, she, and I, I guess. I just...I know guys that do that, that remain friends with someone hoping for something that'll never happen and that's not me. I'm not saying I can't put love aside and be friends anyway, but if you're mature enough to make that choice then you need to stick by it.
Sorry, I'm not trying to insult Paul either, but I know someone like "Paul" so I have an inkling of what you mean there.
I think I'm probably just romantically retarded.
But don't feel like you have to prove something by being her friend if she does turn you down. It sounds like you recognized that this friendship was bad for you. No one is going to think less of you if you stay out of a hurtful situation.