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American Primaries: How dumb are the Democrats?

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    Sword_of_LightSword_of_Light Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    But wait, theres still some hate left for Duh-bya and Emperor Cheney

    http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEWS02/801290309/0/BUSINESS

    Yay, Victor Tango!

    Sword_of_Light on
    "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. "
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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    We want Obama, but don't be a personality cultist. Your predictions of the future mean fuck-all when change needs to happen now.

    You seem to think Hillary will change anything.

    I do not agree with that assumption.

    Hillary will hurt any chances for progressive change. She will hurt them NOW, and four years from NOW, if she is elected.

    There you go with your Magic 8-Ball. I really want to know how you know these things. Is time travel actually possible within my lifetime, Sam Beckett?

    Clinton won't install conservative federal or supreme court justices (to think that SCotUS is the only Judicial issue is deluding yourself; precident is set lower in the chain as well).

    Clinton won't veto the Congress's reforms coming form Feingold, Obama, Webb, and others.

    Clinton will try to get us out of Iraq.

    You're deluding yourself if you think these don't matter. If elected, she's not going to be up there by herself. She'll just be the quarterback; the rest of the team is still there and making plays.

    These points are essentially true. I also suspect that she will continue her Husband's policy of being essentially pro-corporation. I view Hillary and Bill as Republican-lite.

    Now they may not be as friendly to corps as Bush was (Bush has outright sucked corporate cock), but they still pushed through some measures that primarily benefited businesses, not necessarily the people who worked for them. NAFTA in particular.

    Rchanen on
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    AtomikaAtomika Live fast and get fucked or whatever Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    mtvcdm wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    How do the superdelegates work? What is that?
    Congresspeople, governors, people like that. They back whoever the hell they want and can change their pick at any time. Meaning if Clinton gets bad enough, some of her supers could flip to Obama if they want.

    Am I wrong in thinking CNN's current delegate scorecard already counts votes that aren't cast yet? It seems implausible that Clinton already has 238 delegates, somehow.

    Atomika on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    BBC suggested that McCain would tap Rudy Giuliani as AG if he won the presidency.
    Link?

    Thanatos on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    I think the Kennedy endorsements carry a lot more mileage in Mass than they would anywhere else (and probably more mileage than most endorsements would, anywhere).
    Oddly, since I've moved here I don't think I've heard any kind words about Ted Kennedy. I mean - he keeps winning elections, but I'm not really sure how he does it. Weak Republican candidates and a gigantic proportion of democrats, maybe.

    However, my cleaning lady told me this morning that Obama is extremely popular among Brazilians, and Mass has a lot of Brazilians. So maybe that's good.
    Uhhh, weak Republican candidates? I didn't even think any Republican candidates ran against Kennedy in Massachussetts.

    And have you checked your cleaning lady's papers?

    She tells me that she is a citizen.

    And yeah they generally get some "local businessman" scrub to run against Ted.

    Irond Will on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    BBC suggested that McCain would tap Rudy Giuliani as AG if he won the presidency.
    Link?
    Don't have one. Heard it on NPR's BBC feed on my way in to work.

    Irond Will on
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Kagera wrote: »

    You're deluding yourself if you think these don't matter. If elected, she's not going to be up there by herself. She'll just be the quarterback; the rest of the team is still there and making plays.

    Michael Vick was a quarterback too you know, and look how that turned out.

    Oh, yes, I'm sure Hillary has a dogfighting operation in her basement. She also murdered Vince Foster and causes AIDS.
    She is corrupt, she is backstabbing, and she is self-serving, she'll do what brings her the most power, not what's good for America.

    What currently brings her the most power is doing what the Democratic base wants her to do. She won't become president and immediately turn into Sauron.
    And the only reason she has any chance of being President is because she married Bill.

    How does that apply to anything? She's here and she has a chance of becoming presdient, she's not some callow young bride thrust into her husband's business... this has been her life, her plan, all along, and suggesting that she's just some uppity, conniving woman feeds into the claims of sexism that actually fuel her campaign, so I strongly suggest knocking it the fuck off.

    Dracomicron on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    mtvcdm wrote: »
    MrMister wrote: »
    How do the superdelegates work? What is that?
    Congresspeople, governors, people like that. They back whoever the hell they want and can change their pick at any time. Meaning if Clinton gets bad enough, some of her supers could flip to Obama if they want.

    Am I wrong in thinking CNN's current delegate scorecard already counts votes that aren't cast yet? It seems implausible that Clinton already has 238 delegates, somehow.
    They're counting her supers. Without them, Obama leads with 60-something.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    BBC suggested that McCain would tap Rudy Giuliani as AG if he won the presidency.

    Holy shit, yeah there's no way I'm voting for a Republican, that's for sure.

    Elki on
    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • Options
    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    But wait, theres still some hate left for Duh-bya and Emperor Cheney

    http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEWS02/801290309/0/BUSINESS

    Yay, Victor Tango!

    Moonbats! I love it.

    Dracomicron on
  • Options
    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    BBC suggested that McCain would tap Rudy Giuliani as AG if he won the presidency.
    Link?
    Don't have one. Heard it on NPR's BBC feed on my way in to work.
    Any idea what their source was?

    Thanatos on
  • Options
    MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    It always seemed to me that Edwards' message was usually more similar to Obama. It seems logical to me that he would give him his endorsement. But then again, I have not been paying incredibly close attention.

    Marathon on
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    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    fjafjan wrote: »
    Breaking news on the interblags, geek webcomic xkcd endorses barack obama

    Beat'd by like 30 pages yesterday.

    And for the love of God, Edwards needs to endorse Obama. I really, really don't want to be campaigning for Hillary over the summer here in Florida (but I will because we need to fucking redeem ourselves after the last couple of elections).

    So Florida falling on its sword and getting it's primary delegates kicked out doesn't count for this?

    She's using it as a feather in her cap and might still get the delegates seated, so no.

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7216869.stm
    About half of voters said character was most important in deciding who to vote for, and they went strongly for Mr McCain; while those who said issues were more important tended to back Mr Romney.
    This is what got us Bush.
    There was effusive praise though for former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee, who came in fourth place here.

    Mr McCain praised the governor for his humour and grace, two things he said which are too often lacking in this campaign.

    Is he looking to Mr Huckabee as a potential running mate? Or does he just want to reach out with kind words to all those Christian conservatives who support the governor so enthusiastically?
    God no.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    But wait, theres still some hate left for Duh-bya and Emperor Cheney

    http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080129/NEWS02/801290309/0/BUSINESS

    Yay, Victor Tango!

    "I'll make note not to visit Vermont … too many moonbats!" wrote Bob Bogart of Chattanooga, Tenn.

    Well fuck I guess I can mark my upcoming "First Annual Vermont Bogart Meetup" right off my calendar.

    Irond Will on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    Irond Will wrote: »
    BBC suggested that McCain would tap Rudy Giuliani as AG if he won the presidency.
    Link?
    Don't have one. Heard it on NPR's BBC feed on my way in to work.
    Any idea what their source was?

    I don't. They were interviewing someone I believe they identified as an RNC chairman, though the way he was talking he sounded like a McCain campaign guy. NPR streams pretty much all their stuff - you could probably find the feed.

    Irond Will on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Dear lord I hope they don't seat the delegates. There is no justifiable excuse for making a rule, having everyone but one person follow said rule, then turning around on it. It would make the entire convention system look like nothing but a predetermined scam.

    edit: moreso than the superdelegates already make it absolutely stupid.

    kildy on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Well, it's unlikely that the election will be close enough for it to matter either way by the time we get to the convention.

    Hoz on
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    Bad KittyBad Kitty Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    So, I've been thinking as to why Edwards would drop out NOW of all times and why not continue to get more delegates. I'm hoping he's going to outright endorse Obama to cancel out Hillary's "win" in Florida.

    Bad Kitty on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    I suspect that Edwards is dropping out because he knows he doesn't have a chance and thinks it will help Obama. I'm just not really sure that Edwards has the stones to actually come out and endorse Obama in a full-throated way.

    Irond Will on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    kildy wrote: »
    Dear lord I hope they don't seat the delegates. There is no justifiable excuse for making a rule, having everyone but one person follow said rule, then turning around on it. It would make the entire convention system look like nothing but a predetermined scam.

    edit: moreso than the superdelegates already make it absolutely stupid.
    Spoilered for length...
    The players are all gathered around, obviously having been
    called together by Brown.

    BROWN
    (addressing the group)
    I got somethin' I think you oughta
    know about. I wouldn't have known
    about it myself if Charlie Donovan
    hadn't told me, although I shoulda
    guessed it from everything that's
    happened. It seems that Mrs. Phelps
    doesn't think too highly of our worth.

    We take several CUTS OF FACES around the room.

    BROWN
    She put this team together because
    she thought we'd be bad enough to
    finish dead last, knockin' attendance
    down to the point where she could
    move the team to Miami.
    (pause)
    And get rid of all of us for better
    personnel.

    Taylor, Vaughn, Hayes, Dorn, and the others can hardly believe
    what they're hearing.

    DORN
    Even me?

    BROWN
    Even you, Dorn.

    Silence descends on the room.

    HAYES
    In other words, Phelps thinks we're
    all dinks. That we don't belong in
    the big leagues.

    BROWN
    That's about it.

    HARRIS
    What if we don't finish last?

    BROWN
    She'll replace you with somebody who
    will. After this season, you'll all
    be sent back to the minors or given
    your outright release.
    (pause)
    So, all we're gonna get is this one
    year.

    Taylor surveys the bowed heads around the room. He stands to
    address the group.

    TAYLOR
    I don't know about the rest of you,
    but I've been playin' baseball since
    I was five years old. I've had some
    good years and some years to forget.
    I've burned out my knees... I don't
    think I have three fingers that work
    right... I've lost most of the money
    I made and baseball has messed up my
    personal life from time to time. But
    I know one thing... I can still play
    this game a little. And I'd like to
    know who in this room thinks they're
    the kinda bum Mrs. Phelps is lookin'
    for?

    Eyes dart around the room, then come back to Taylor. No hands
    are raised...

    TAYLOR
    Well, then, I guess there's only one
    thing to do.

    DORN
    What's that?

    TAYLOR
    Win the whole fuckin' thing.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • Options
    wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    We can only hope because otherwise...oh god I'm going to be waving Clinton 08 signs for six months. :(

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
    Twitter - @liberaltruths | Google+ - http://gplus.to/wwtMask | Occupy Tallahassee
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    If he's gonna do it, you'd think he'd either do it now, or wait until Monday morning/Sunday night, so Obama gets control of the news cycle.

    Thanatos on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    It's a good idea to wait after the debate, so he can point to the debate and say "that's why I'm endorsing Obama" and just spin it to imply Hillary fucked up or something.

    Hoz on
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    kildykildy Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Or just throw a rock into a pond during his concession speech and endorse gravel.

    kildy on
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    DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    If he's gonna do it, you'd think he'd either do it now, or wait until Monday morning/Sunday night, so Obama gets control of the news cycle.

    I agree. We can't go into Super Tuesday thinking that Obama was impolite to Clinton. Not after she implied that she might feel sorry about the lies and race baiting she and her husband have heaped on him.

    That would look bad.

    Dracomicron on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    If he's gonna do it, you'd think he'd either do it now, or wait until Monday morning/Sunday night, so Obama gets control of the news cycle.

    I agree. We can't go into Super Tuesday thinking that Obama was impolite to Clinton. Not after she implied that she might feel sorry about the lies and race baiting she and her husband have heaped on him.

    That would look bad.

    She extended her hand in friendship, Draconominomicriocronomicon.

    And it was rebuffed.

    And yet she still has it extended. In friendship. Because she is a noble and generous soul.

    Irond Will on
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    If he's gonna do it, you'd think he'd either do it now, or wait until Monday morning/Sunday night, so Obama gets control of the news cycle.

    I suspect that if it's coming it will come in his concession speech. He won't have this kind of press opportunity from this point on out, and one would think that he would realize this.

    Irond Will on
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    KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I wonder why now though...I hope it's not something to do with his wife getting worse or something. :(

    Kagera on
    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    nyt wrote:
    Top advisers said that Mr. Edwards would not be endorsing another candidate today when he makes his announcement at 1 p.m.

    :(

    Irond Will on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm hearing a lot about how Edwards voters are all in Hillary's demographic camp. I think I was saying something to that effect a few days ago.

    It might be a bit underestimated that Edwards voters might have common demographics such as be older and white, but that they also are all in the demographic that was not supporting Hillary Clinton. In fact, within the Edwards world view narrative, Hillary is a pretty unappetizing sell out funded by corporate interests.

    So tought to say.

    I think John Edwards is going to be determining my view of him pretty decisively by what he does at 1:00.

    Shinto on
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    ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    nyt wrote:
    Top advisers said that Mr. Edwards would not be endorsing another candidate today when he makes his announcement at 1 p.m.

    :(

    Damn it.

    Shinto on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    nyt wrote:
    Top advisers said that Mr. Edwards would not be endorsing another candidate today when he makes his announcement at 1 p.m.

    :(

    I hate that son of a bitch.

    Couscous on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    I'm willing to put a wad of cash down on a bet that he'll endorse Obama after the debate.

    Hoz on
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    ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Shinto wrote: »
    I'm hearing a lot about how Edwards voters are all in Hillary's demographic camp. I think I was saying something to that effect a few days ago.

    It might be a bit underestimated that Edwards voters might have common demographics such as be older and white, but that they also are all in the demographic that was not supporting Hillary Clinton. In fact, within the Edwards world view narrative, Hillary is a pretty unappetizing sell out funded by corporate interests.

    So tought to say.

    I think John Edwards is going to be determining my view of him pretty decisively by what he does at 1:00.
    I think it's really hard to say. If you were to force me to make a call, I'd actually say it's gonna be a wash between Hillary and Obama, but that would be a total guess.

    Maybe we'll get lucky, and it'll turn out that most Edwards voters just really don't like Hillary.

    Thanatos on
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    GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Kagera wrote: »
    I wonder why now though...I hope it's not something to do with his wife getting worse or something. :(
    This is what I'm hearing, unfortunately.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
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    geckahngeckahn Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Hoz wrote: »
    I'm willing to put a wad of cash down on a bet that he'll endorse Obama after the debate.

    What his people are saying is he wont endorse anyone "at this moment".

    Which leaves open the possibility of an endorsement before February 5th.

    geckahn on
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    DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Irond Will wrote: »
    Moe Fwacky wrote: »
    If he's gonna do it, you'd think he'd either do it now, or wait until Monday morning/Sunday night, so Obama gets control of the news cycle.

    I agree. We can't go into Super Tuesday thinking that Obama was impolite to Clinton. Not after she implied that she might feel sorry about the lies and race baiting she and her husband have heaped on him.

    That would look bad.

    She extended her hand in friendship, Draconominomicriocronomicon.

    And it was rebuffed.

    And yet she still has it extended. In friendship. Because she is a noble and generous soul.



    If Cthullu extended a tentacle to me, in professed friendship, I might not take it.

    Just saying.
    especially after the destroyer of worlds tried to paint me as the soul-brother-black-mans-candidate by proxy of her husband with such quips as "Jesse Jackson hee-yuk!"

    Derrick on
    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
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    Irond WillIrond Will WARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!! Cambridge. MAModerator mod
    edited January 2008
    geckahn wrote: »
    Hoz wrote: »
    I'm willing to put a wad of cash down on a bet that he'll endorse Obama after the debate.

    What his people are saying is he wont endorse anyone "at this moment".

    Which leaves open the possibility of an endorsement before February 5th.

    That's not all that helpful for us really. An endorsement from Edwards would really need to happen right now in order for it to carry much weight both in terms of media attention and in terms of momentum.

    Irond Will on
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    HozHoz Cool Cat Registered User regular
    edited January 2008
    Yeah but if he does it now then it'll get stomped by whatever bullshit narrative the media spins about the debate.

    Hoz on
This discussion has been closed.