TIE Fighter - The Last Straw

Arcelebor

As happens occassionally in normal game-related web-browsing or conversation, but exceptionally often this week and capped off by Gabe's post today, TIE Fighter is held up as a shining example of space sim-dom. While I played and enjoyed TIE Fighter, I have to ask...why is this the example people choose to use when either of its brethren are superior?

In my mind TIE Fighter was the airbrushed sequel to the superior original X-Wing and then blown away by X-Wing: Alliance. I'd rather play either of those than TIE Fighter. (But don't bother trying, as X-Wing Alliance was left behind by DirectX and is no longer supported.)

Is there some quality to TIE Fighter that I missed that elevates it from a mere chapter in the X-Wing sim legacy to the pinnacle of space simmery? Or did TIE Fighter just manage to come out when more people were able to find/run the game and is used to refer to the entire LucasArts sim series?

If the former, please enlighten me. I am hard-pressed to expect, however, that I merely missed the option that improved the graphics, set Leia as my sassy copilot, and sent little jolts of pleasure to my cerebellum via the joy (get it?) stick.

If the latter, I rescind my post and agree wholeheartedly that X-Wing needs a modern treatment. My experience with the original X-Wing, a player-created custom campaign that tasked you with defeating a fleet of ISDs single-handed like they were a race of Titans, TIE Fighter and its expansions, and the in-every-way-excellent-except-for-a-weak-subplot-ending Alliance have never been even approached by all the other terrible space sims out there.

~Mark

Tube

TIE Fighters are cooler than X Wings.

Zeromus

tl;dr

But really, all of them are awesome.

mrsnackroad

Its the first time I remember you having a chance to play as an Imperial soldier in a video game... and, I don't think that's an idea that gets explored really deeply.

Echo

Cardboard Tube wrote: »

TIE Fighters are cooler than X Wings.

Real men don't hide behind shields!

TyrantCow

you get those tattoos and shit, and it's awesome.

Man... TIE Fighter was an amazingly fun game.

see317

I loved TIE fighter because it was the only game of the genre (that I was aware of) that let you be the bad guy without painting you or your faction as a bunch of psychotic douche bags. You weren't butchering refugee's for shits and grins, you where destroying dangerous rebel cells in order to bring peace and order to the galaxy.

It's also the first I played in the series. At the time I was mostly a console gamer and I was already sick of flying in circles on Hoth to destroy my umpteen billionth AT-AT, or staying in the trench to hit the torpedo button so I could blow up the deathstar for the 42nd time. I wanted to be the bad guy. I wanted to be the guy blowing the shit out of X-wings.

Plus it had the Tie Interceptor. That thing was a space-ninja.

Kagera

The Empire rocks, the Rebellion is for hippie bitches.

Inner Circle FTW

Tube

I didn't like X Wing Alliance because if you didn't have a joystick, you couldn't play it, and about two games come out a year that need a joystick so I'm not buying a fucking sidewinder or whatever for one game. TIE Fighter you could play with a mouse.

HyperAquaBlast

I think it was because of the story. They really made you want to side with the Empire and made it seem like a good thing.

Plus deploying from a Star Destroyer in a swarm to attack Rebel terrorists is just cool.

Tube

see317 wrote: »

I loved TIE fighter because it was the only game of the genre (that I was aware of) that let you be the bad guy without painting you or your faction as a bunch of psychotic douche bags. You weren't butchering refugee's for shits and grins, you where destroying dangerous rebel cells in order to bring peace and order to the galaxy.

It's also the first I played in the series. At the time I was mostly a console gamer and I was already sick of flying in circles on Hoth to destroy my umpteen billionth AT-AT, or staying in the trench to hit the torpedo button when it told me to. I wanted to be the bad guy.

You weren't really the bad guy though, that was the best thing. Like you said, you were fighting dangerous terrorists, seperatists and pirates. The game never went "AND THEN DESTROY THEM BECAUSE AAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" it played the whole thing totally straight.

Plus, in one of the status screens they showed that your character was in possession of a lightsaber.

TyrantCow

TIE Fighter also got me in to the genre as a kid. The training missions were a ton of help.

Then I went back and played my old games like F15: STRIKE EAGLE, and I could actually play them.

Speakeasy

Zeromus wrote: »

tl;dr

But really, all of them are awesome.

You. Your avatar.

Anyhow, I liked suicide runs with a Interceptor. And X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter (BoP) was the best game.

Kagera

I mean, come on, playing that game whilst Imperial March plays in my head, that's the fucking shizzle there.

see317

Cardboard Tube wrote: »

Plus, in one of the status screens they showed that your character was in possession of a lightsaber.

What? When did that happen? Was it part of the inner circle, cause I never kicked enough ass to get very far into it. 3rd or 4th tattoo IIRC.

Tube

see317 wrote: »

Cardboard Tube wrote: »

Plus, in one of the status screens they showed that your character was in possession of a lightsaber.

What? When did that happen? Was it part of the inner circle, cause I never kicked enough ass to get very far into it. 3rd or 4th tattoo IIRC.

It was just on a profile screen or something, there was a lightsaber handle down one side of the screen right from the start. I wonder if you got anything for getting all the inner circle tatoos. I went through once trying to get every bonus objective and stuff.

Bloods End

TIE Fighter was superior because you got to fight while being lead by Admiral Thrawn.

captaink

It even came with that awesome story about how your character was a swoop rider and stuff.

Andorien

Collector's CD edition + flying with Vader missions = badass.

JerikTelorian

Tie Fighter was the first game in the series I beat, actually. I loved it for all the reasons listed here. The Secret Order Objectives were so sweet, and added a cool new edge to the game.

My favorite mission was...

Where you were sent into a super-dense minefield on a "demonstration run" for two rookie pilots. The Secret Order Objectives, however, were nowhere to be seen-- the guy who gave the missions simply said that something was wierd and you should call for reinforcements at the first sign of a problem.

Once the missions started, Zaarin started speaking to you in a really odd way, and once you cleared the minefield, sent the wingmen to kill you. When you called for reinforcements, the Secret Order Frigate hypered in and flew cover for you, before asking you to run the gauntlet and ID Zaarin's escape craft.

It was such an awesome mission. So well choreographed.

Also, it was the last one to use iMuse (Though I admit, I always played the newer version with all the expansions.)

see317

JerikTelorian wrote: »

Tie Fighter was the first game in the series I beat, actually. I loved it for all the reasons listed here. The Secret Order Objectives were so sweet, and added a cool new edge to the game.

My favorite mission was...

Where you were sent into a super-dense minefield on a "demonstration run" for two rookie pilots. The Secret Order Objectives, however, were nowhere to be seen-- the guy who gave the missions simply said that something was wierd and you should call for reinforcements at the first sign of a problem.

Once the missions started, Zaarin started speaking to you in a really odd way, and once you cleared the minefield, sent the wingmen to kill you. When you called for reinforcements, the Secret Order Frigate hypered in and flew cover for you, before asking you to run the gauntlet and ID Zaarin's escape craft.

It was such an awesome mission. So well choreographed.

Also, it was the last one to use iMuse (Though I admit, I always played the newer version with all the expansions.)

I loved that mission. I always targeted using the "Nearest enemy" key (was it R?).

imagine my suprise when the nearest enemy was sitting on my ass in an interceptor...

Ringo

Oh goddamnit. Now I want to play TIE fighter.

Andorien

JerikTelorian wrote: »

Tie Fighter was the first game in the series I beat, actually. I loved it for all the reasons listed here. The Secret Order Objectives were so sweet, and added a cool new edge to the game.

My favorite mission was...

Where you were sent into a super-dense minefield on a "demonstration run" for two rookie pilots. The Secret Order Objectives, however, were nowhere to be seen-- the guy who gave the missions simply said that something was wierd and you should call for reinforcements at the first sign of a problem.

Once the missions started, Zaarin started speaking to you in a really odd way, and once you cleared the minefield, sent the wingmen to kill you. When you called for reinforcements, the Secret Order Frigate hypered in and flew cover for you, before asking you to run the gauntlet and ID Zaarin's escape craft.

It was such an awesome mission. So well choreographed.

Also, it was the last one to use iMuse (Though I admit, I always played the newer version with all the expansions.)

That was actually Harkov. Zaarin was later.

Ergandar

see317 wrote: »

JerikTelorian wrote: »

Tie Fighter was the first game in the series I beat, actually. I loved it for all the reasons listed here. The Secret Order Objectives were so sweet, and added a cool new edge to the game.

My favorite mission was...

Where you were sent into a super-dense minefield on a "demonstration run" for two rookie pilots. The Secret Order Objectives, however, were nowhere to be seen-- the guy who gave the missions simply said that something was wierd and you should call for reinforcements at the first sign of a problem.

Once the missions started, Zaarin started speaking to you in a really odd way, and once you cleared the minefield, sent the wingmen to kill you. When you called for reinforcements, the Secret Order Frigate hypered in and flew cover for you, before asking you to run the gauntlet and ID Zaarin's escape craft.

It was such an awesome mission. So well choreographed.

Also, it was the last one to use iMuse (Though I admit, I always played the newer version with all the expansions.)

I loved that mission. I always targeted using the "Nearest enemy" key (was it R?).

imagine my suprise when the nearest enemy was sitting on my ass in an interceptor...

YOU...THE EMPEROR'S STOOL PIDGEON-TIME TO DIE! (paraphrased)

Greatest mission of all time.

I usually eliminated my wingmen in the initial few seconds, then dogfighted (dogfaught?) with those irritating advanced fighters and bombers which had shields, where my interceptor merely had speed.

I never called in reinforcements, I assumed that they would not arrive.

Lord Yod

TIE Fighter was very slightly superior to X-Wing in terms of graphics and stuff, as I recall, but what really made it better was how different it was. Not only did you play as an Imperial, you were also a good guy. It showed a side of the Empire that, to my knowledge, hadn't been showed before; you weren't just rehashing the tired 'fight the empire' plot anymore.

Also there was a demo for it that came with something or other that I had, and I played that like a thousand times or something before I got the game.

steejee

I found that the X-Wing controls (original X-Wing) were jerky and imprecise while TIE Fighter's were very smooth. Not sure what the cause was, but it made TIE Fighter more enjoyable to play.

Plus most of the other stuff people have mentioned.

Kagera

Ergandar wrote: »

see317 wrote: »

JerikTelorian wrote: »

Tie Fighter was the first game in the series I beat, actually. I loved it for all the reasons listed here. The Secret Order Objectives were so sweet, and added a cool new edge to the game.

My favorite mission was...

Where you were sent into a super-dense minefield on a "demonstration run" for two rookie pilots. The Secret Order Objectives, however, were nowhere to be seen-- the guy who gave the missions simply said that something was wierd and you should call for reinforcements at the first sign of a problem.

Once the missions started, Zaarin started speaking to you in a really odd way, and once you cleared the minefield, sent the wingmen to kill you. When you called for reinforcements, the Secret Order Frigate hypered in and flew cover for you, before asking you to run the gauntlet and ID Zaarin's escape craft.

It was such an awesome mission. So well choreographed.

Also, it was the last one to use iMuse (Though I admit, I always played the newer version with all the expansions.)

I loved that mission. I always targeted using the "Nearest enemy" key (was it R?).

imagine my suprise when the nearest enemy was sitting on my ass in an interceptor...

YOU...THE EMPEROR'S STOOL PIDGEON-TIME TO DIE! (paraphrased)

Greatest mission of all time.

I usually eliminated my wingmen in the initial few seconds, then dogfighted (dogfaught?) with those irritating advanced fighters and bombers which had shields, where my interceptor merely had speed.

I never called in reinforcements, I assumed that they would not arrive.

Well you made an ass of you and...well just you really.

Henroid

see317 wrote: »

I loved TIE fighter because it was the only game of the genre (that I was aware of) that let you be the bad guy without painting you or your faction as a bunch of psychotic douche bags. You weren't butchering refugee's for shits and grins, you where destroying dangerous rebel cells in order to bring peace and order to the galaxy.

This. Time a billion.

I never even beat TIE Fighter, but mostly because I had to give the game back when I was borrowing it from a friend.

Anyone remember the Emperor's Hammer? That online community which was essentially a clan for all things Starwars? I joined up in the TIE Fighter Corps, but this was when X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter was the new hot shit.

StormyWaters

I think I was actually in Emperor's Hammer? TIE Fighter was just phenomenal, the problem was later on it got too much into missile spam where 95% of fights were doing loops while seeing 'missile warning, key to target?' pop up.

Parkingtigers

TIE Fighter was certainly much glossier and well produced than X-Wing, but it was an inferior game overall. Mostly because of the fact that it fails at the first hurdle, namely that you are in a small, nippy as fuck, yet unshielded craft. Your entire advantage lies in speed and mobility, but then you find yourself slowing down to a crawl behind a tank of a Y-Wing, slowly grinding down his zillion shields. This is both not fun, and exposes you to spacey death, which is double not fun. If you play it straight and just strafe and run as TIEs actually would, the shields of the enemy craft would often as not recharge before your second run.

Cardboard Tube is right, TIE Fighters are cooler than X-Wings, but this is as enemies that swarm you and that you can bat down with two or three clean hits MAXIMUM. The Rebel craft may be fun to fly, or to look at, but they are just dull to shoot at.

TIE Fighter also lost it for me when it brought in too many gunboats and missile ships and various TIE experimental craft that just looked like the teaboy was allowed near the AutoCAD machine. The fantastic voice acting and overall storytelling never made up for the fact that the game stopped feeling like Star Wars to me. Long dogfights grinding down the shields of ships, missiles filling the sky, this is not the nippy "two hits your are dead" combat we see in the movies. So, failure.

I'd love a next gen X-Wing remake. The fact that it ripped off Wing Commander's format in many ways was a plus point for me. I'm sure I'm not alone in getting back from a scout mission in an A-Wing, having taking down an entire fleet of Star Destroyers, and getting chewed out for having risked my life in the engagement and maybe the Alliance would have lost out on the intel in the process. This pilot never ran away from a fight with the Empire, no matter the odds.

The Wolfman

I remember the later missions when they started letting you use the experimental TIE's that had shields on them.

Naturally, the first order of business was to dump all shield power to the engines, letting you fly around at the speed of God. Even with laser energy bumped up, you could still outfly an A-Wing.

'Cuz shields are for the weak.

Kagera

Parkingtigers wrote: »

The fantastic voice acting and overall storytelling never made up for the fact that the game stopped feeling like Star Wars to me. Long dogfights grinding down the shields of ships, missiles filling the sky, this is not the nippy "two hits your are dead" combat we see in the movies. So, failure.

So I guess you won't be looking forward to The Force Unleashed eh?

And when did Rebel fighters have shields in the movie? I do not remember this at all.

TVs_Frank

Well I hated X-Wing for being absurdly difficult. It's really hard for me to choose between TIE Fighter and Alliance though. TIE Fighter had a lot of missions and always found a way to keep things fresh. Missile Boats were fun to pilot too. I loved taking out waves of capital ships with those. TIE Defenders were fun too. Alliance's missions may not have been as creative as TIE Fighter's but it had a nice subplot for an all too familiar story and the ability to fly Corellian Corvettes.

EngelNUL

TIE Fighter was superior in so many ways.

The Presentation was beyond excellence. Not the graphics. Back when TIE Fighter came out (before the Windows version), it still looked like Hutt at an all you can eat buffet. It wasn't until the 640x480 HIGH RESOLUTION version of the game came out that it looked pleasing.

But just the overall feeling they were able to convey in the game. The mission orders we're presented the same way as in X-Wing, or X-Wing vs TIE Fighter, but the writing for the briefings was top notch. Every once and while the briefer would remind you, subtly, that the Empire was right. The rebels were terrorists, the pirates we're preying on honest, hard working civilians, the civil war that sprung up was because some Dimoks and Ripublus (yes, I remember...but I have been playing this game on and off for almost 13 years now) could not decide on what color they wanted to paint their ships!

Then, there were the questions to the CAG. Every question, he answered with the righteous authority that was the Imperial Navy. You now have "advanced concussion missiles" which should allow you to deal with any Rebel craft (read: scum) you should encounter. BRILLIANT!

The secret order....ooooh the Secret Order! What a better way to actually make you feel like you are part of the Galactic Empire than by giving you a direct line to the Emperor? I mean, sure its one thing to fly around, launching from Star Destroyers, outnumbering X-Wings 3 to 1 and inspecting a freighter that says "Rebels"....but to actually get orders from a guy that plays cards with the Emperor himself? Where in X-Wing do you even hear about the leaders of the Rebellion? You get your orders from some guy thats stuck in a podium like he is some sort of I/O Port Guardian. You occasionally get to see Mon Mothma, but she never gives you any tattoos.

Before this gets too long, the in game banter was exceptional as well. I will leave with a quote I'm sure you will all remember.

"Those rebels must want to die flying those Z-95 Headhunters!"

cj iwakura

TIE Advance: best starfighter ever.

It's the armor of an X-Wing with the death dealing capacity and agility of a TIE.

Basically the Excalibur of Star Wars. Or maybe Excalibur's the TIE Advance of Wing Commander; one of the two.

Too bad they didn't think to give X-Wing VS TIE Fighter an actual story; I bought the game at launch expecting another epic campaign, and found an empty multiplayer vehicle.

JerikTelorian

The Wolfman wrote: »

I remember the later missions when they started letting you use the experimental TIE's that had shields on them.

Naturally, the first order of business was to dump all shield power to the engines, letting you fly around at the speed of God. Even with laser energy bumped up, you could still outfly an A-Wing.

'Cuz shields are for the weak.

When playing XW:A I still make custom missions where I fly around in an interceptor. What use are shields when I can run rings around you?

Don't get me wrong though, I still loves me some X-Wing. Interceptors, however, are the shit, and I always feel accomplished when I take out a wing of shielded fighters in one.

TVs_Frank wrote: »

Well I hated X-Wing for being absurdly difficult.

I got to the mission where you're supposed to save Ackbar while in a Y-Wing and let it go. I was so terribly outmatched, it pissed me off so much.

JerikTelorian

EngelNUL wrote: »

:words:

Everything you said is absolutely true.

And thanks to you, you asshat, I now have 5.5 agonizing hours of being at work before I can go play Tie Fighter.

Way to go.

Henroid

EngelNUL wrote: »

"Those rebels must want to die flying those Z-95 Headhunters!"

The economy class starfighter!

Echo

Andorien wrote: »

Collector's CD edition + flying with Vader missions = badass.

"Careful, Alpha 1! The Emperor has plans for you!"

Kagera

JerikTelorian wrote: »

EngelNUL wrote: »

:words:

Everything you said is absolutely true.

And thanks to you, you asshat, I now have 5.5 agonizing hours of being at work before I can go play Tie Fighter.

Way to go.

At least you still HAVE the game.

Pb

cj iwakura wrote: »

TIE Advance: best starfighter ever.

I'm sorry, I think you have some piece of shit confused with a Missile Boat.