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NINJA! In Game Theft Provokes Vic to Report to Police...
Zahaladeen
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
...and they told him to bugger off.
LINK: http://www.twincities.com/ci_8134692...nclick_check=1
According to the police dept., in-game or "virtual" items have no monetary value, hence there was no crime involved. According to the article, over $2 billion is spent on virtual goods a year, ie: gold, plat, etc...
Perhaps I'm missing a step, but how is this not theft if it does represent a specific monetary value? If I stole a $40 bread maker from Wal Mart, I'd get knicked. But if I stole a $400 toon from a flatmate, it wouldn't be a big deal.
An investment of time, energy, and wealth into a game should constitute an item of real worth - but it doesn't.
LINK: http://www.twincities.com/ci_8134692...nclick_check=1
According to the police dept., in-game or "virtual" items have no monetary value, hence there was no crime involved. According to the article, over $2 billion is spent on virtual goods a year, ie: gold, plat, etc...
Perhaps I'm missing a step, but how is this not theft if it does represent a specific monetary value? If I stole a $40 bread maker from Wal Mart, I'd get knicked. But if I stole a $400 toon from a flatmate, it wouldn't be a big deal.
An investment of time, energy, and wealth into a game should constitute an item of real worth - but it doesn't.
Zahaladeen on
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We want that to mean it's worthless. Otherwise my taxes will Suuuuuck on things I never intended to turn into cash.
It's entertainment. That's it. My soccer trophy? Not income.
Wouldnt you like to keep your in game goods?
It's pretty obvious that he shared his login information with someone. I don't know about FFXI, but on WoW, you have utterly no official recourse if you're stupid enough to trust someone who is untrustworthy, and the contract you sign to play says that everything your character "owns" is actually owned by Blizzard and has no dollar value.
I see Blizzard's model will probably set the standard, if it hasn't already, because it insulates them from corporate liability and puts the responsability on the individual player. Think of it like this: You pay to rent the court and the equipment: you spent the money so you can have fun, not so that you can invest in items. You don't suddenly own the court (though you might "pwn" the court if you get my drift... okay I'll shut up).
Keyloggers and hackers are another story entirely, but since this was supposedly perpetrated by someone the player knew, I'm guessing that he's just a moron.
No. Paying taxes on them versus losing them when I switch games...
I come out economically better to consider them entertainment that has no actual value.
Presume for a second that you play a game for years because you enjoy it. Games decline in net RMT value. An older game with tons of things in the economy? Your nest egg is worth quite a bit less. It's like asking if people would be willing to give up taxes on their car in order to get no resale value out of it. If you plan on owning that car for a very long time, you'd wind up better if you could opt out of taxes, because it's not worth Dick when you hold on to it.
As it is currently, sure you have no legal recourse. But on the other hand, it means your in hand RMT stock is untaxed until you actually sell it (at which point you Should file it as income). That's the best of both worlds.
That's sort of where I was going with my question. If the guy who stole his l33t sword of pwnage actually did something illegal in the process, charge him on that. If the thief just used in-game or otherwise non-illegal mechanisms to access the stuff, then boo-fucking-hoo, next time be more careful.
Though it would be helpful for this sort of thing if companies like Blizzard cracked down more effectively on the sales of in-game assets, and it would also benefit the gaming community.
I fleeced him. With a couple of friends, we cleaned him out completely. I severed my contact with him outside the game, of course, and had to create new characters.
To this day, I still feel like a complete and utter cock for doing that. I made an alt and went to the town some months later and he seemed to be just fine, but I'm sure I hurt him by violating his trust. Items for sale on eBay was a pretty new concept, but I'm pretty sure I snagged about $200 real world value (well, eBay value) of in-game goods from him. I never sold my account or goods and just let it lapse so I never saw that money. Is that actually theft?
No, just a total dick move. Things can be total dick moves and still be legal.
Anyway, if I was going to create a real-world analogue, it'd probably be a con and not theft.
If someone did something illegal to steal the guy's jive, through no fault of the victim, Blizzard would reset his stuff and ban the perpetrator, if it were known. At least that's what's been known to happen.
Blizzard has understandably determined that it is nigh impossible (from a financial and strategic standpoint) to easily prosecute individuals or small sites who engage in gold selling or account stealing, so what they do is they gather information for a quarter or so and then reveal everything at once and shut down a few sites at once and ban a fuckload of accounts. Inevitably, new sites and fraudulent accounts pop up, but at least they've hit as many as possible with one swing of the [Corrupted Ashbringer] or whatnot.
Electronic items have been legally upheld in two major areas of law: electronic accounts of money, and music. If you get someone else's debit card number, it is still illegal to transfer the "money" in his account to yourself. People have been charged for the production and distribution of electronic media not belonging to them. In both these cases, things with no mass have been held to be stolen.
You would not be taxed for these items because, while they still have value, they are at most M2 in liquidity, and so are not classifiable as income. They would probably be closest in classification to mushrooms, which are often undomesticated but professionally gathered. In such a case, the tax would most likely be applied when items are sold.
In both cases (electronic funds and music) they have actual physical representations, and the transaction is simply digital.
The value of an item IS determined by what people pay for it, though what is considered value to The Government is different. The value of my infant son? Well, I'm sure I could find a buyer and put out some feels for bids. However, that does not give it a monetary value as far as The Government is concerned.
Heck, in this case, it's closer to me selling cans of soda from a box I bought. Sure, they have value in that people will pay for them. However, they're all labeled Not For Resale. Now it gets legally murky as to who can actually sell them.
In this case, people WILL pay money for in game items. However, the EULA specifically forbids said sales. So their value is up for legal debate. Then you get into ownership. The rules state you don't actually own any of the items. Only the owner can sue for theft.
Actually, the government does assess the value of human lives, both to figure out how to weigh the benefits of a traffic light v. its cost and for the 9/11 victims' fund.
However, if someone steals my child, it's not Theft, nor assessed by value of the child. Nor is actual value taken into account, it's a net average. My smart kid is obviously worth more than a C student, but you don't see it changing much.
RMT has no value, you can't sell it without breaking a shitload of rules you agreed to. If it's stolen via a legitimate out of game means, you can sue them for various hacking laws. If you gave them account access and they took shit, no suit unless you had a contract with them (and then you're likely in violation of your contract with the game company per the current agreements)
This is really, Really low on the legal radar, and if it starts becoming some huge money deal, it WILL be taxed. It's already come up in congress twice to tax shit like this.
So, does that mean that, per your earlier example, it is not theft if you take soda that I have already bought because I am not allowed to sell it, but instead can only consume it?
The Australian government has come out and said if you're making an income from second life, the it's to be treated like normal money and there's even stuff like GST to consider.
At the point where it turns into real money, it makes sense. But if I'm selling my writing at a buck a word, that doesn't mean everything I write is a valued asset.
The economy in FFXI is in a deep ass recession and RMTs in China have resorted to hacking FFXI accounts by putting viruses and shit on FFXI-related sites to meet their quotas by stripping accounts. I think about 500 accounts got hacked since November so the idea of losing your shit doesn't just apply to Sots but on a wider level. I don't know how bad it is with other MMOs with this shit but it would be nice to get it out in the open here so discuss.
Best way to avoid this shit is to suspect everyone is out to get you and don't give your password to anyone, not even the dog...
Alternatively: I relish the notion of lawyers having to deal with that many furries and Asperger's sufferers.
I agree but it would make for some funny convos around the water cooler on a Monday morning lol.