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On driving stick v2
anonywho
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Three questions:
1. Is there something I could do to make the shift into 2nd gear smoother?
2. Is it bad/good to skip gears? I usually do 1-3-5, and shift at 3500-4000
3. Does the above make better mpg?
1. Is there something I could do to make the shift into 2nd gear smoother?
2. Is it bad/good to skip gears? I usually do 1-3-5, and shift at 3500-4000
3. Does the above make better mpg?
anonywho on
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2. It's not bad for the engine if when you hit 5 the revs are close together. It's kinda like if you thrash first then shift to second you can hear the engine really slow down it isn't the best for it.
3. I'm not too sure.
Satans..... hints.....
No, probably not.
probably not terribly useful, but I had a truck where you were not supposed to use first gear except for towing shit. Supposed to start it in second.
My uncle also taught me how to shift gears without using the clutch, although you need a loose transmission, and I have a feeling this is bad for you car.
The higher gears do give you better gas mileage, but skipping gears won't necessarily. If you really rev it up in third so you can jump to 5th you may waste more gas than doing a more gradual 3-4-5. Honestly I don't think it will be that big of a difference in gas either way though.
Well the I way I look at it is, I shift at 4k once, as opposed to shifting at 3k then going up another 3k to shift.
EDIT: it does save the clutch though, right?
2. Its neither good nor bad, well, its bad for acceleration :P The shift RPM bracket is pretty good, what RPM does it drop you to going from 1-3?
3. I doubt it.
CUZ THERE'S SOMETHING IN THE MIDDLE AND IT'S GIVING ME A RASH
Shifting through your gears should not be a problem. Likewise, skipping gears should not be a problem either as long as you are properly rev matching. Which means that your gear shifts should be smooth even when going from 2-4. Hell, I shift from 5 to 2 on the highway at times when merging onto an off ramp but i'm a bit of an aggressive driver.
Oh and shifting without using the clutch does nothing to the synchros if the engine and transmission are synchronized. That's what makes it possible. Unless of course you'rechanging gears with excessive force, that can cause grinding. Although there's really no reason to do this it can help you determine appropriate shift points.
Getting the best economy requires light loading(easy acceleration) and using the highest gear that will move the cars. So you might light accellerate thru the first three gears and then skip fourth and cruise in fifth.
Smooth shifting comes from practice. You can get a good feel for the clutch by starting(in first) from a dead stop with out using the gas. Do this in a parking lot. This will help you in all gears.
You could also have problems because you have a damaged motor mount. I know my rallyX car has busted the rear mount(again) when it starts shifting jerky. Poor shifting can also come from an oiled clutch, but this will usually make it chatter in first as well.
make a stop somewhere on the hill without the brake (use the clutch and the gas to find the perfect spot) if your car is goign back and forward, or shuts off, you are doing it wrong. this is the easiest way to get a feel for clutch control
after that just drive for a while with the radio off
listen to the engine. when it starts reving louder than normal it's usually time to shift
that's how i learned and I'll never understand how most people who drive stick have to slam the car to get it to shift properly without it being a seamless transition
Isn't this a good way to melt a clutch?
This. The gears are there for a reason, in any normal situation they're what you should be using. It's not exactly 'bad' for anything to skip gears, although higher RPM = faster engine/transmission wear. Your MPG will almost certainly suffer.
Also why bring up clutchless shifting? O_o Are you trying to needlessly complicate the situation?
1. As above, get better at working the clutch. Maybe get out of first earlier, first is usually sort of a dog-leg thing just meant to get the car moving, once you're solidly moving you should be able to go into second easily enough. There's no need to speed-shift or anything, either. In fact if you just do things smoothly you'll end up with a faster shift anyway.
2. Doesn't hurt anything, really.
3. No. Optimum gas-mileage in stick from a British study is to briskly bring the car to about the RPM range you're talking about (lower on larger/torqueier/lower-revving engines) and then going to the next gear and doing the same until you reach your cruising speed, at which point you put your car in the highest gear it'll cruise easily at. If I'm going 45 mph I'm probably a bit above idle in my top gear.
If you do it for a month straight half-riding the clutch the entire time nonstop 24/7 then yes.
The best way to avoid jerks is just to get used to the clutch. I know when I'm riding my motorcycle I don't even try to think about shifting, I just let my hand release the clutch as much as I know it needs to go by doing it again and again.
It's all about getting used to the clutch.
(My experience is based on a 8th Civic FA)
1. Shifting from first to second is always going to be your roughest gear change (assuming northing's getting worn out.) As has been said, release the clutch slowly until you/the cpu rev match. Your shifts will be jerky if you're popping the clutch out quickly, which I assume you're doing.
2. So I assume you're using this method of 1-3-5 "usually" as in on 40mph roads and highways? This really isn't going to give you any benefit over running through the gears normally. If you're interested in the life of your car (longevity) I'd just run the normal course through 1 to 5. As Dizaster said, what you're doing is taxing the engine slightly. While this isn't going to cause your block to explode, it can lead to engine stress if you car isn't fully warmed up.
3. No. If you're looking for the best mpg, just drive by the book. Find a shift point where the car doesn't seem to "strain" once in the higher gear and try to keep your cruising rpm close to that point. As a rule of thumb, if you're hitting the gas and you don't notice an acceleration pull, you're too low in the rips to provide a healthy amount of engine movement.
If you absolutely hate the 1st to 2nd "jolt" a shortshifter can make it better, but it doesn't eliminate the need for good, soft clutch control.
And if you're interested in blowing your transmission go ahead and powershift without the clutch. You are required to be a very specific rpms when the transmission will release one gear and engage another without help. THIS is playing with fire, and it's much more probable you'll end up screwing something up. If you take nothing else away from this, it should be that powershifting takes a lot of know-how, practice and risk for little-to-no actual gain (other than picking up teenage girls who were extras in Fast and the Furious films.)
vytrox, starting in second is needlessly hard on the clutch and transmission. Don't shift without the clutch unless you dislike your transmission and feel the need to show off. It's good for neither the synchros nor the tranny gears.
anonywho,
1. It's tough to guess what's making the change less than smooth. You might be dis/engaging the clutch at the wrong point with respect the the accelerator. Is the not-so-smooth part when you put the clutch in or take your foot off? If it's the latter, try getting back on the gas smoother and later. Again, it's tough to see what the problem is from the description.
2. It's not really bad, but why bother? When you're upshifting, try to get the rhythm of the RPMs falling from the lower gear close to where they'll be on the higher gear when you take the clutch out. It's easier on the clutch and tranny, while making for a smoother ride.
3. I'm not 100% sure, but my guess would be that your milage will decrease from skipping shifts. The engine will have an RPM range where it is most fuel efficient (air friction which is related to speed, not withstanding) and staying in that range will give you the best efficiency.
When it comes to shifting, as with most things for driving, aim for smooth. Don't hammer the shifter, clutch, or gas. Be quick, but try to be as graceful as possible.
Edit: The crowning one is quite right about the short shifter. What is does is to take away some of the leverage and give you a much better feel of what you're doing which helps you to workt the shifter more smoothly.
If you ever need to talk to someone, feel free to message me. Yes, that includes you.
Back to point. Practice. You need to practice. Find a place where you can shift up and down without running over any school children and work on it. Also you really need to check out your car and make sure that you do not have damaged motormounts or shift bushings. Also remember you are just driving to the store, not exiting the corkscrew at Laguna. You might be "overdriving"
This is because your gear is better matched at 2500 revs. What you probably want to be doing is hitting around 35k revs in first gear, depress the clutch, release the accelerator, shift into second, wait for the revs to drop to around 25k and then release the clutch and just touch the accelerator ready to compensate for a big drop off in revs when the gears re-engage.
This should, of course, all happen in a fluid movement. The revs will naturally drop due to you releasing the accelerator and shifting through the gears, I've put 'wait for revs to drop' near the end, but really if you haven't tried to go to fast in first gear and you've fully released the accelerator, that combined with the fact that you are upshifting which naturally causes the revs to drop should mean that by the time you are in second gear and ready to release the clutch, the revs should have already dropped to around the right amount.
To be honest, it's a hell of a lot easier just to ignore the rev counter and just feel where your car shifts most happily, not least of all because staring at your rev counter and wait for it...wait for it...SHIFT NOW! is a pretty terrible way to take your attention away from the road.
A common technique amongst casual drivers is to only partially raise the clutch after shifting the gear and gradually depressing the accelerator again before fully releasing the clutch once the revs stabilise in the new gear. Raising the clutch slowly like this means you don't have to be ridiculously precise with changing gears at exactly the right point on the rev counter. It probably leads to the clutch wearing out slightly faster, but it won't be nearly as bad as releasing the clutch completely when there's to much RPM for the gear you're shifting into (which, I understand, brutalises your clutch as well as being pretty uncomfortable).
My car doesn't even have a tach, and this is how i drive it. I'm much better at it just driving on engine feel and sound than i ever was watching my RPMs like a hawk in my last manual.
I can't think of a good reason for skipping gears. You're taking your engine and transmission further out of their regular happy zones and either revving them hard or under revving them, instead of keeping them within a few hundred RPMS of their ideal speed.
Shifting 1 to 2 is always the roughest transmission. You can compensate initially by letting the clutch out slower and revving the engine slightly more than you would for the other gears, though you'll wear the clutch a bit faster that way. Not "clutch will die next week" faster, but "clutch may die a couple months sooner in a few years" faster. The more you get comfortable with the transmission, the faster you'll find yourself able to come off the clutch without jerking the car. Practice is the best medicine here.
Yeah I do most of my acceleration in second but of course differing cars will have different power bands. So it could be a v6 thing. I think the OP needs to learn how to adjust pressure on the clutch better. That's the skill that really started to smooth out my driving. I felt comfortable getting the car to roll with just the clutch in first gear and then making into second with a bit of acceleration was no problem.
My first car didn't have a tach, so that's how I learned - just hear/feel the car and shift whenever you think is best. Eventually you will figure out what the engine sounds like when it's ready to shift. Now, whenever I drive a stick, I never even look at the RPMs. As everyone has said, cars have different RPM levels that they want to shift at. But what I've found is that most cars at least FEEL similar when they reach that level.