360 Without a Digital TV

The Dude With Herpes

Since search is disabled atm, I can't find out if there's already a thread discussing this.

Soo....

I'm considering picking up a 360 sometime soon, but here's the thing. I have an older TV. It's a big screen but it came out right before digital TV's started being the norm. It doesn't even do progressive scan.

Though the thought occurred to me to maybe save up a little more money and buy a new TV instead and scrap the 360 idea for now, well, meh.

What I want to know, really, is how "bad" is the quality for the 360 on a standard display television, if any of you out there play on a normal TV without progressive scan or anything? I do have one component input on the TV, even though it's not in any way digital, so I can get at least decent cables for what I have. But I don't want to go spend the money on a 360 if it's just honestly going to look like trash on my TV, when the chances of me getting money for a TV too are pretty slim.

Another option, I suppose, I have a 19in LCD I use for my secondary PC in my "office" (read: room where I can keep all my geek crap to not annoy my wife); is there a way to hook up a 360 to a LCD PC screen? It just has the generic DVI and VGA inputs.

So help me out, if you can.

redstormpopcorn

http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-VGA-HD-Cable/dp/B000B6MLTG

That oughta do it with the LCD.

TheSonicRetard

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Since search is disabled atm, I can't find out if there's already a thread discussing this.

Soo....

I'm considering picking up a 360 sometime soon, but here's the thing. I have an older TV. It's a big screen but it came out right before digital TV's started being the norm. It doesn't even do progressive scan.

Though the thought occurred to me to maybe save up a little more money and buy a new TV instead and scrap the 360 idea for now, well, meh.

What I want to know, really, is how "bad" is the quality for the 360 on a standard display television, if any of you out there play on a normal TV without progressive scan or anything? I do have one component input on the TV, even though it's not in any way digital, so I can get at least decent cables for what I have. But I don't want to go spend the money on a 360 if it's just honestly going to look like trash on my TV, when the chances of me getting money for a TV too are pretty slim.

Another option, I suppose, I have a 19in LCD I use for my secondary PC in my "office" (read: room where I can keep all my geek crap to not annoy my wife); is there a way to hook up a 360 to a LCD PC screen? It just has the generic DVI and VGA inputs.

So help me out, if you can.

The 360 certainly doesn't look bad on a SDTV (I used mine on an SDTV for a while) and will still look quite a bit better than last gen, but on an HDTV it looks much, much improved.

You're in luck, though. They sell 360 VGA cables, specifically for computer monitors. Just pick one up and you're good to go on your LCD monitor.

zanetheinsane

A big problem with SDTVs and 360 games is some of the text can be difficult to read. Dead Rising and Gears of War were especially bad with this.

Malvient

There are some games that kinda suck on a standard resolution TV. Dead Rising is a popular mention, the text is barely readable.

I played Gears of War, Armored Core, GRAW and a variety of XBLA arcade games on my shitty 20" tube tv before I invested in a relatively small 26" HDTV. The games were still fun and very playable. If you've never played games in HD, you probably won't hate it too much. I could never go back though.

The Dude With Herpes

Thanks guys.

So then, with the LCD what "resolution" should I expect? I'm not really terribly well versed on the console/HDTV use of terms. I know "i" is interlaced and "p" is progressive scan. I know the numbers correspond to some aspect of the resolution, but not exactly how they equate.

So, for example, this LCDs default resolution is 1440x900; what would that correlate to for a 360 resolution?

brynstar

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Thanks guys.

So then, with the LCD what "resolution" should I expect? I'm not really terribly well versed on the console/HDTV use of terms. I know "i" is interlaced and "p" is progressive scan. I know the numbers correspond to some aspect of the resolution, but not exactly how they equate.

So, for example, this LCDs default resolution is 1440x900; what would that correlate to for a 360 resolution?

A 360 with a VGA Cable or HDMI to DVI converter cable will put out a wide variety of resolutions, all the way up to 1920 by 1080. Sadly, it doesn't properly output at a 16:10 ratio so on a 1440 by 900 monitor you'll get a little image stretching. Still, it'll look pretty good and you can run it at 1280 by 768, for instance.

I've been running a 360 on monitors since launch almost, and it's great. My current setup is a 24 inch Gateway monitor with an HDMI to DVI cable, but I've used the VGA cable extensively in the past. You'll also need an RCA or Digital Optical capable sound device of some kind to receive the audio.

The Dude With Herpes

Thanks again. I was reading the reviews for that VGA cable and saw you can set your resolution in the 360 console. That's pretty cool. Too bad it's VGA and not DVI, but since I use DVI for my PC the VGA slot is open, so I wouldn't need to buy a switch.

Sounds good. I need to put some crap up on ebay then to get the rest of the money I need.

Is there any reason to get the Elite instead of the Pro since I don't have HDMI and probably won't for the life of the 360? And probably a stupid question, but is the Pro worth the $80 more it is over the Arcade? I know the Arcade doesn't come with a hard drive, but how hard is it to upgrade the hard drive on your own? If it's easy it really doesn't seem like the Pro is worth the money, because a 20gig hard drive costs considerably less than $80.

EDIT: Plus, the Compusa going out of business in town is selling the Arcades for $230 making it $120 less than the Pro. So how easy/difficult upgrading the hard drive is will be rather important.

redstormpopcorn

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

I know the Arcade doesn't come with a hard drive, but how hard is it to upgrade the hard drive on your own? If it's easy it really doesn't seem like the Pro is worth the money, because a 20gig hard drive costs considerably less than $80.

EDIT: Plus, the Compusa going out of business in town is selling the Arcades for $230 making it $120 less than the Pro. So how easy/difficult upgrading the hard drive is will be rather important.

The 360 HDD comes in its own enclosure and clips into one end of the console; I'm pretty sure you can't just go out and pick up a drive and slap it on. It also comes in 20 and 120 GB flavors.

TheSonicRetard

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Thanks again. I was reading the reviews for that VGA cable and saw you can set your resolution in the 360 console. That's pretty cool. Too bad it's VGA and not DVI, but since I use DVI for my PC the VGA slot is open, so I wouldn't need to buy a switch.

Sounds good. I need to put some crap up on ebay then to get the rest of the money I need.

Is there any reason to get the Elite instead of the Pro since I don't have HDMI and probably won't for the life of the 360? And probably a stupid question, but is the Pro worth the $80 more it is over the Arcade? I know the Arcade doesn't come with a hard drive, but how hard is it to upgrade the hard drive on your own? If it's easy it really doesn't seem like the Pro is worth the money, because a 20gig hard drive costs considerably less than $80.

EDIT: Plus, the Compusa going out of business in town is selling the Arcades for $230 making it $120 less than the Pro. So how easy/difficult upgrading the hard drive is will be rather important.

You can pick up a used hard drive from gamestop for $60, or a new one if you can find them at Toys R Us for $50. Go with the arcade.

Also, all 3 models come with HDMI now.

The Dude With Herpes

Ah. I assume just buying the enclosure and replacing the drive is out of the question.

So...is 20gb enough? I'm sure I'd download the demo here and there but probably just remove them when I'm done. I also understand that very few games require the hard drive, though apparently you need it for the old Xbox BC?

Kind of silly the only options are 20gb and 120gb. I don't even need 120gb on my main PC, I can't imagine ever needing it on a console. A nice 40gb or 60gb seems more sensible.

The Dude With Herpes

So sweet, $320 for the system/HD/VGA cables.

A game would probably be ideal too.

I can probably scrounge up $400 before the compusa closes. Maybe I should just pick up the 360 now just in case.

Gdiguy

redstormpopcorn wrote: »

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

I know the Arcade doesn't come with a hard drive, but how hard is it to upgrade the hard drive on your own? If it's easy it really doesn't seem like the Pro is worth the money, because a 20gig hard drive costs considerably less than $80.

EDIT: Plus, the Compusa going out of business in town is selling the Arcades for $230 making it $120 less than the Pro. So how easy/difficult upgrading the hard drive is will be rather important.

The 360 HDD comes in its own enclosure and clips into one end of the console; I'm pretty sure you can't just go out and pick up a drive and slap it on. It also comes in 20 and 120 GB flavors.

This is accurate; you need to buy one from MS (that're overly expensive)


As for non-hd tv's - I use an SDTV, and there haven't been any really horrible text games in a while... Dead Rising is the example everyone uses, and some games haven't been great about it (Vegas and GRAW were a bit tiny), but most of the recent AAA games haven't had any issues

*edit

The size question basically comes down to whether you plan on downloading movies (especially HD movies), and how much of a demo-packrat you are... my 20gb is always almost full, but I have at least 7gb of demos that I haven't played yet (or haven't touched in 6 months) that could certainly be deleted. The xbox originals thing might also start eating up large amounts of space if you're going to buy a bunch of those games, but XBLA games/patches/downloadable content, for the most part, is all pretty small

TheSonicRetard

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Ah. I assume just buying the enclosure and replacing the drive is out of the question.

So...is 20gb enough? I'm sure I'd download the demo here and there but probably just remove them when I'm done. I also understand that very few games require the hard drive, though apparently you need it for the old Xbox BC?

Kind of silly the only options are 20gb and 120gb. I don't even need 120gb on my main PC, I can't imagine ever needing it on a console. A nice 40gb or 60gb seems more sensible.

You can buy a specific type of HDD and pop it in the enclosure, but you'll need to get the enclosure first. So either way, you're gonna have to go with a hard drive.

20 gbs fills up fast, but honestly, I went a year with only 64 mb on a memory card and never filled it up. The 20 gb HDD fills up because of demos or downloadable content, all of which can be redownloaded from the xbox live server.

Again, I recommend an arcade and a used 20 gb HDD or the new $50 20 gb HDD at toys r us if you can find it.

The Dude With Herpes

Well, 9 billion questions.

So I just noticed the wireless adapter costs a freaking fortune. Are there any other options there? Affordable ones? My router is in the living room and my whole house is wireless. Can you hook up the 360 to a PC as a gateway? Or are there affordable options (3rd party) for the wireless?

Thanks for all the answers so far. I'll stop by toysrus on my way home from campus tomorrow and check out what they've got for hard drives. $60 for a factory refurbished one is perfectly fine too (EBGames).

RavynBlackheart

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Well, 9 billion questions.

So I just noticed the wireless adapter costs a freaking fortune. Are there any other options there? Affordable ones? My router is in the living room and my whole house is wireless. Can you hook up the 360 to a PC as a gateway? Or are there affordable options (3rd party) for the wireless?

Thanks for all the answers so far. I'll stop by toysrus on my way home from campus tomorrow and check out what they've got for hard drives. $60 for a factory refurbished one is perfectly fine too (EBGames).

For the connectivity, I have my router in the basement, my 360 is connected to my PC which has ICS enabled and is connected wirelessly to the router, so you don't have to spend $100 on the Wireless Adapter. Just enable ICS on your PC and you're good to go.

The Dude With Herpes

Cool, thanks.

The Dude With Herpes

Ok, last question; I promise.

maybe

The official xbox page lists the Arcade as not having backward compatibility. Is this only because of the lack of hard drive? If I pop that hard drive on will it for sure be able to play old xbox games? I'd rather not pick up an arcade only to find out that it had any necessary hardware needed for BC stripped out and the hard drive doesn't make a difference.

shryke

So, do I need a special cable to hook up the 360 to a computer monitor?


Also, what's the connection most monitors use called again?

The Dude With Herpes

use the VGA cable linked above.

Gdiguy

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Ok, last question; I promise.

maybe

The official xbox page lists the Arcade as not having backward compatibility. Is this only because of the lack of hard drive? If I pop that hard drive on will it for sure be able to play old xbox games? I'd rather not pick up an arcade only to find out that it had any necessary hardware needed for BC stripped out and the hard drive doesn't make a difference.

Yep, it's only because of the hard drive... in truth, other than some randomness with the HDMI ports, and the color of some of the front parts (is that still true?), there's really zero difference between the physical Pro and Arcade consoles, it's just that the Pro comes with the hard drive/other accessories. If you pop a hard drive on you basically have a Pro console, and all the backwards compatibility is software based

So, do I need a special cable to hook up the 360 to a computer monitor?


Also, what's the connection most monitors use called again?

VGA is the one that's been around for a while, and that most people use; I don't think there's a DVI cable for the 360 (though I could be wrong about this), and I guess there are now some monitors that have HDMI input, but VGA is most likely what you're looking for (the one with the trapezoid-shaped blue plug)

slash000

My friends all play their 360s on 32" SD tvs, and we all agree that it looks great. Sure, it doesn't look as good as it would on an HDTV, but it still looks fantastic.

Just be wary of Dead Rising and it's too-small-for-SD text.

The Dude With Herpes

Gdiguy wrote: »

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Ok, last question; I promise.

maybe

The official xbox page lists the Arcade as not having backward compatibility. Is this only because of the lack of hard drive? If I pop that hard drive on will it for sure be able to play old xbox games? I'd rather not pick up an arcade only to find out that it had any necessary hardware needed for BC stripped out and the hard drive doesn't make a difference.

Yep, it's only because of the hard drive... in truth, other than some randomness with the HDMI ports, and the color of some of the front parts (is that still true?), there's really zero difference between the physical Pro and Arcade consoles, it's just that the Pro comes with the hard drive/other accessories. If you pop a hard drive on you basically have a Pro console, and all the backwards compatibility is software based

So, do I need a special cable to hook up the 360 to a computer monitor?


Also, what's the connection most monitors use called again?

VGA is the one that's been around for a while, and that most people use; I don't think there's a DVI cable for the 360 (though I could be wrong about this), and I guess there are now some monitors that have HDMI input, but VGA is most likely what you're looking for (the one with the trapezoid-shaped blue plug)

Thanks; yeah I found somewhere that stated explicitly that it would work with a HD.

The difference between the Core and the Arcade is that the Arcade comes with a memory card and a wireless controller instead of the Core wired one. The Pro comes with the hard drive and no memory card; BUT it comes with a headset which the arcade inexplicably lacks.

HarshLanguage

Yeah, put a hard drive on your Arcade and it's essentially a Pro. Headsets are easy to come by, and ultimately skippable. God, a lot of the time you won't want to hear or speak to random idiots on Live.

I used my 360 on both a large and small-screen SDTV for a while, and thought the quality was fine. Perfectly playable. Didn't have any trouble reading text at all, but I never played Dead Rising or Gears on those TVs.

Oh, and if you're looking for 20gb drive, PM me. I have one that's new/unused from my Pro that I was going to put up on eBay since I upgraded to a 120gb. Would prefer to give a good deal to PAer.

The Dude With Herpes

I'm going to link this here in case more people read this than the Tech forum.

http://forums.penny-arcade.com/showthread.php?p=4451030#post4451030

I want to connect my 360 directly to a PC to use the PC's wireless connection. I've turned on the network sharing and all that jazz but I can't make it past the DNS test on the 360.

The Dude With Herpes

Got that problem solved.

Now, can someone tell me why it says I only have 13.8gb free on the hard drive when there's only about 30megs of stuff showing up on the hard drive menu?

brynstar

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

Got that problem solved.

Now, can someone tell me why it says I only have 13.8gb free on the hard drive when there's only about 30megs of stuff showing up on the hard drive menu?

Several Gigabytes of the 360 Hard Drive are reserved for the Operating System, a system cache for 360 games, and emulating the 8 Gig Hard Drive of the original Xbox for backwards compatibility. So, 13 Gigs is all you get access to I'm afraid.

LewieP

I always hear about resolution issues surrounding 16:10/16:9 stuff with playigna 360 on a widescreen monitor, I have a 19" 4:3 (is it actually 4:3? it looks like it...) monitor. How would a 360 be on that?

The Dude With Herpes

You can manually change the resolution in the console if you have the VGA cables hooked up. There are several 4:3 resolutions you can choose from.

LewieP

The Dude With Herpes wrote: »

You can manually change the resolution in the console if you have the VGA cables hooked up. There are several 4:3 resolutions you can choose from.

Cool. Such as?

The Dude With Herpes

640x480
1024x768
1280x1024

The Dude With Herpes

Is there a way to set my system in standby or something? And keep the download list downloading?

Willeth

Yep. In System>Shutdown, you can enable background downloading. This'll keep your download queue active in a low-power mode (indicated by a green blinking power LED) and it'll auto-shutoff your 360 when it's done.

fuelish

*I have an older Akai rear projection unit 54"(Maybe 55" whatever it takes) The 360 looks fine on it. I would even argue that low-def can be better because it masks the mistakes. Do you really want to see EVERYTHING?

*To my shame, answered without reading the whole thread.

The Dude With Herpes

I ended up picking up the VGA cables for it and hooking it up to my monitor. Toysrus had them for sale for 19.99 which is about half off, so that was nice.

And it works well not having the 360 on the main TV because 1) it looks better on the LCD in HD. 2) My wife can still watch TV or a movie and I can play, without disturbing each other.

Sadly the Compusa I was going to buy the Arcade at had sold out so I ended up just picking up a pro. It came with Ultimate Alliance and Forza 2 (the latter of which I'll never touch) and a headset (no memory card though); it worked out to only be about 15 bucks more than a base Arcade and a Hard Drive would have been. I got Blue Dragon while I was there for the hell of it, it was on sale too. I'm enjoying it so far. Reviews just say it's pretty generic, but oddly that's the kind of JRPG I like so good times.

I'm really looking forward to picking up some more recent games that push the system somewhat to see what this thing can do. I've downloaded about a dozen demos already and am going to check them out now.

Hensler

Hmmm, wish I would have read this thread before I dropped $450 on an Elite this week. Oh well, at least black looks good with all my other stuff.

Anyways, it was asked in this thread already, but then solved before an answer was given: Is there a cheaper alternative to the offical 360 Wireless adapter? That's a ridiculous ammount to pay for a wireless card.

Hotlead Junkie

Sorry if it's been mentioned but I'd thought I'd chip in my advice. I found DMC4 became much, much easier to read and clearer when I bumped the settings down to 50hz instead of 60. On my regular tv I mean

Willeth

Wireless bridges work with the 360. Just plug in the ethernet cord and connect it to your bridge and set it up that way. It's bulky but it works.