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Oh that Putin...
Heartlash
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So it's been a while since I've seen a good old Russian political thread. I figured a new one might be in order now that we've aparently re-entered the arms race.
Excerpt:
So, is he really trying to restart the cold war? Or is this just silly saber-rattling? How concerned are you?
There's certainly reason to believe that the "elections" about to occur will be, hmmmm, suspiciously one-sided. There's also the question of where Medvedev really stands. In general he's rhetorically gentler with the West, but he could also very well be a Putin puppet simply in place to carry on the man's legacy (or directly implement his positions from behind the scenes).
Excerpt:
Putin: 'New Arms Race Unleashed in the World'
By Peter Finn
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, February 8, 2008; 10:33 AM
President Vladimir Putin said Friday that "a new arms race has been unleashed in the world" as the United States moves forward with a missile defense system in Central Europe...
..."It's not our fault. We didn't start it . . . funneling multi-billions of dollars into developing weapons systems," Putin said in what may be his final major address before he leaves the Kremlin after presidential elections March 2. "Russia has and always will have a response to these new challenges. Over the next few years, Russia will start production of new types of arms, with the same or even superior specifications compared to those available to other nations."
So, is he really trying to restart the cold war? Or is this just silly saber-rattling? How concerned are you?
There's certainly reason to believe that the "elections" about to occur will be, hmmmm, suspiciously one-sided. There's also the question of where Medvedev really stands. In general he's rhetorically gentler with the West, but he could also very well be a Putin puppet simply in place to carry on the man's legacy (or directly implement his positions from behind the scenes).
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Putin has made it impossible for the russian media to disagree with the government without them saying you can disagree with them.
Welcome back soviet Russia
but they're listening to every word I say
I mean, Bush would give a good fight but.... Putin would just slam your ass down, break a arm or some shit.
Anyone got those holiday pictures of him with the gun and a rippling sixpack?
The guy is a fascinating read and looks like he will be making major moves behind the scenes when he leaves office. It's looks like the next decade is shaping up to be an interesting one.
My feelings regarding Putin changed a lot when I saw an interview with Garry Kasparov. The man's government literally has complete and utter control over any and all information regarding public opinion in Russia, meaning the perception that he is widely well liked in his own country could very well be artificial.
Here's some good footage from when he went on Bill Mahr's show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRvb9gO-XDA
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Russia's arguments with the UK have been two-sided and are remarkably reminiscent of a playground spat:
- Russia (may have) poisons Litvinenko
- Britain calls for extradition of suspect (which Russia has a legal right to refuse)
- Britain expels four Russian diplomats
- Russia expels four British diplomats
- Russia orders two British Council offices to shut
- Britain defies orders
- Russia forces the offices to shut
Really, both countries have been as bad as each other. Tit for tat. I'm not really sure it has anything to do with the arms race, though.
I don't know. I think it's hard to criticise Russia when the West's actions have hardly been stellar.
^^ This has some merit, although it's primarily being built to defend against Iran and North Korea, supposedly anyway. I don't see why the US is pushing for an NMD network that does not guarantee safety.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
Seriously, this ammounts to "OMGZ we wont be able to nuke Central Europe with short range ballistics!!! RAWR!!Those damned Americanz!!!".....Your still going to obliterate pretty much everything if the trigger is pulled, who the fuck cares? Do they not realize that this has no stopping capacity on most of what they have left for MAD?
And when you look at the geography, I dont know why they are bitching that we are putting missile interceptors in between them and the wonderfully stable ME......do they think we would be selective in what we shot down coming out of Iran? "Oh guys, I know we only have a limited capacity on intercepting a salvo, so lets try to track if they are being shot at Russia and if they are just ignore them."
I vote saber rattling from someone who has used Russian Nationalism to cement his political power for at least another decade.....it's what he does.
I can't watch it now since work blocks the tube, but I know about the media stuff. It prompts the question of how bad it was before Putin came into power. From what limited stuff I read it was pretty bad. Maybe the majority of the Russian people can put up with the government grip as long as their lives improve.
True, but the authoritarian regression is still really troubling, or at least I can imagine many people in Russia feel so (but can't say so).
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I don't really think that is the problem so much as Russia sees it as the US exerting its influence too close to home. They're essentially setting up military installations squat on the Russian border. Putin asked the US "Hey why not move them down here (forget where, think it was closer to Romania, more southward anyway) it gives the same protection and everything" but the US was all "nah".
I believe that was the big deal breaker for the Russians. If the US had complied, this wouldn't be a problem.
The argument for whether or not the missile shield is effective could be shot back and forth, but basically what Russia is seeing is America pre-empting Russia's strike capability, while not hindering the American's own
It's not that he's delusional so much as he's playing dumb. It's the equivalent of Hitler talking about Jewish conspirators trying to ruin Germany.
This
The guy is ex-KGB and is not stupid. If you think he really sees Russia like that, then you've just fallen into his trap.
He's by no means a good guy, but stability is a huge thing, and though I'm sure a fair amount of pubic appreciation is manufactured, stability is a good thing, and the people that lived through the 90s in Russia can tell the difference.
And that has the appearance of a bad analogy, Church. It looks like you're implying that Hitler was not delusional.
Stability doesn't make hell any less hot.
I fail to see the parallels, whether metaphorically or corporeally, between Hell and modern Russia.
Let's not go making silly analogies here.
EDIT = My point was more directed at Church, apologies.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
He's done precious little to actually help the country, and the price is political oppression on a scale not seen since Brezhnev and a war with a public approval rating that is dwarfed by that of the Iraq War's.
So no, living under his administration isn't quite as bad as an eternity in a lake of fire.
But nothing else is equal.
So...?
My point is that stability in and of itself is a desirable outcome, and people like it. They are willing to forgive some amount of transgressions on their liberties (and often, their neighbors) to acquire it. Putin has been delivering, and people are probably happy about at least the relative stability of today compared to ten years ago.
You know who ISNT happy about it?
The people of Chechnya.
You know where any semblence of the economic stability Putin has provided has come from?
Oil from Chechnya.
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Even if he was helping--and he's not--the fact that some people are willing to put up with it doesn't make it right.
This.
This.
A thousand times this.
My point exactly.
Plus, the Confederate States and Nazi Germany were doing pretty well and the Russian Federation isn't.
Hey, give the guy a break. He keeps the trains running on time.
He's actually wrong. There is a total of 11 people left in Chechnya by now. It's just a giant military base and has been for the last 5 years.
I'm from Komsomolskoye.
What are you talking about? Russian petroleum reserves are enormous and spread throughout the whole country. Russia certainly didn't go to war with Chechnya over oil - it was to reconquer a seperatist province.
You guys are comparing modern Russia to the Antebellum South and Nazi Germany. I hope you can see how absurd that is. Modern Russia is not a living hell, nor was 90s Russia a paragon of freedom that Putin destroyed.
I will agree with the bolded part. The amount of oil in Chechnya is miniscule compared to that in Russia. But that doesn't make the war any less of a crime.
And no, it's not a living Hell. There are worse places in the world. And some parts of Russia (Like most of Moskva, for instance) are actually pretty nice. Doesn't change the fact that it has way more problems than it should, and Putin's administration isn't doing shit to help. Just because the preceeding administration wasn't a bastion of human rights doesn't mean it's okay for him to treat the country the way he is.