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American Primaries: The Maine Event!

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Posts

  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Ramius wrote: »
    So, has this been posted already? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwqEneBKUs


    I just saw it, and it only has ~200 views, so I thought I might be something new.


    It is good for a smile or a laugh or a cry.

    D:


    I thought it was serious for a minute

    oh man... that was freaking hilarious.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ScooterScooter Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    dot_star wrote: »
    Which makes the one not-stupid point in the article that much clearer: if Obama wins, that's basically everybody telling the Clintons they're over, and putting them out to pasture: thanks for your service, now go play shuffleboard or watch some Matlock or something while we clean up your mess.
    This brings up a good point:

    We need to start scheduling all election days to correspond with Matlock marathons.


    Ha ha...

    Ha...

    Hmmmmm...:!:



    Seriously though, I totally expect Hill to make another attempt in 2012 if she loses this one.

    Scooter on
  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Clinton will still be an important part of the leadership if Obama wins.

    Fencingsax on
  • ElendilElendil Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    skyknyt wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Yes, how could I possibly forget that one.

    I can honestly say that, regardless of who wins the Dem nomination, this campaign season is going to one for the ages. The depths to which the attack machines, particularly on the Republican side, will go is going to be fucking nauseating. I'm resigning myself to just spending half the year seething with anger and rage.

    I'm hoping that McCain, who got his ass kicked by the very same attack machinery, isn't going to let it be used on his behalf.
    Yeah, about that.

    Elendil on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    So I was talking with a friend of my mom's over the weekend. He's the sort to spam you with emails about how God uses tornadoes to punish people who vote incorrectly. Apparently it's really important that we vote for a Republican, because in the next four years eleven supreme court justices will be retiring. He didn't seem to believe me when I said we only had nine, and asserted that either way, all but one would be leaving. He had this from a good source.

    Later, the guy asked me about Huckabee, and what his campaign was. I told him, "Well, uh... He really likes God." So Huckabee now has one extra supporter, I guess.

    ElJeffe on
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  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Fencingsax wrote: »
    Clinton will still be an important part of the leadership if Obama wins.

    I really think she'd be an ideal majority leader or something. She knows the game and the party really well. I think people have said before she seems to be a more of a legislator than a leader.

    nexuscrawler on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Does anyone have poll numbers from Ohio and Texas? I know Texas has a HUGE latino population, which sides heavily for Clinton. Those states are what I'm worried about for Obama.

    Obama is making some inroads (a former Richardson supporter and latino labor rep just spoke up for him), but I think it's folly to equate what's happened with coastal latinos to their Texas counterparts. Their situations are fairly different, and we all know that everyone in Texas has a fairly unique character and it sure seems like most have an independant streak a mile wide.

    Obama has a great chance in Texas as long as he campaigns there. Also wearing the hat won't hurt.

    Dracomicron on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    No, it was a good bit after that. And Rezko isn't just some sketchy developer guy, he's a 'kingmaker' of sorts in local/state politics. Typical pay to play type stuff, and he makes a bunch off of state contracts from the governor. A governor he happens to have donated large sums of money to and is one horrible motherfucker.

    There's nothing wrong with it, but it's a horrible association to have.

    Ah, so there's even less to the scandal than I thought.

    You know, I bet that at some point in my life I held the door open for a serial rapist, or something. Clearly I'm unfit for office.

    ElJeffe on
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  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    That McCain video is wicked

    Senjutsu on
  • dot_stardot_star Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    moniker wrote: »
    Houn wrote: »
    I just got done debating the Rezko thing with my friend. He couldn't offer anything solid, just a general feeling that "he's corrupt!" I think the poor guy's become so bitter and cynical that he can't accept that this is a guy that he's actually politically in line with. He's simply looking for reasons to hate him, so he can continue believing that US Politics are all a sham.

    It's his Whitewater of sorts. If you really want to see corrupt, though, point him to Rezko and Blago. Obama really didn't do anything wrong or corrupt, just something stupid that looks bad.

    The only similarity to Whitewater is that real estate is involved, really.

    I think it's pretty great that this shit is the worst anyone's found on him. Because it really is nothing.

    dot_star on
  • skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Elendil wrote: »

    Ugh, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :|

    skyknyt on
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  • wwtMaskwwtMask Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Man, if it weren't for Obama, I'd have no hope for this country. All these anecdotes about crazy ass co-workers/friends/relatives are depressing. They actually make the cynical rantings of my own relatives ("Obama won't win because white folks won't let a black man win") seem reasonable by comparison. :|

    wwtMask on
    When he dies, I hope they write "Worst Affirmative Action Hire, EVER" on his grave. His corpse should be trolled.
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  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Does anyone have poll numbers from Ohio and Texas? I know Texas has a HUGE latino population, which sides heavily for Clinton. Those states are what I'm worried about for Obama.

    Obama is making some inroads (a former Richardson supporter and latino labor rep just spoke up for him), but I think it's folly to equate what's happened with coastal latinos to their Texas counterparts. Their situations are fairly different, and we all know that everyone in Texas has a fairly unique character and it sure seems like most have an independant streak a mile wide.

    Obama has a great chance in Texas as long as he campaigns there. Also wearing the hat won't hurt.

    Hopefully he starts soon. Clinton is visiting my town tomorrow, and supposedly Chelsea and Bill may make stops later on the month.

    Kyougu on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Didn't someone comment on how Texans loathe the Clintons before?

    nexuscrawler on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Elendil wrote: »
    skyknyt wrote: »
    wwtMask wrote: »
    Yes, how could I possibly forget that one.

    I can honestly say that, regardless of who wins the Dem nomination, this campaign season is going to one for the ages. The depths to which the attack machines, particularly on the Republican side, will go is going to be fucking nauseating. I'm resigning myself to just spending half the year seething with anger and rage.

    I'm hoping that McCain, who got his ass kicked by the very same attack machinery, isn't going to let it be used on his behalf.
    Yeah, about that.

    Motherfucker.
    McCain wrote:
    It's not so much whether I approve of his tactics or not. It's that he has a very good, great political mind. Any information or advice and council he can give us, I'd be glad to have. I don't think anybody denies his talents. So I'd be glad to get any advice and council. We would obviously decide whether to accept it or not.

    A very good, great political mind that has spelled doom for the Republican party after being handed a practical carte blanche after the Clinton years.
    McCain wrote:
    I've always respected Karl Rove as one of the smart great political minds I think in American politics. I've always respected him. We never had any ill will after the initial South Carolina thing. After we had the meeting with President Bush we moved on.

    I would have cut the motherfucker for messing with my family. There are some things you just don't do, even in tough politics, and that's one of them. Adopting that girl was one of the best things McCain has ever done as a person; I view this as worse than Kerry's Swift Boating because it drew a 9 year-old innocent into the crossfire. McCain's like, "Sure he made false allegations that might traumatize the fuck out of my school-age daughter, but let's let bygones be bygones, right?"
    McCain wrote:
    He beat me. I certainly would be glad to get his advice. I don't think I'd want to revisit how he did it. And I mean that. Not about South Carolina. I mean I don't feel like reliving my defeat.

    I feel like reliving your defeat, asshole.

    Dracomicron on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »

    Ugh, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :|

    I can't wait to see that used on Obama...

    "Would you be more or less likely to vote for Barak Obama if you knew he fathered a black child..."

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    He'll get murdered in the general if he doesn't make a clean break from Bush

    nexuscrawler on
  • dot_stardot_star Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Kyougu wrote: »
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Does anyone have poll numbers from Ohio and Texas? I know Texas has a HUGE latino population, which sides heavily for Clinton. Those states are what I'm worried about for Obama.

    Obama is making some inroads (a former Richardson supporter and latino labor rep just spoke up for him), but I think it's folly to equate what's happened with coastal latinos to their Texas counterparts. Their situations are fairly different, and we all know that everyone in Texas has a fairly unique character and it sure seems like most have an independant streak a mile wide.

    Obama has a great chance in Texas as long as he campaigns there. Also wearing the hat won't hurt.

    Hopefully he starts soon. Clinton is visiting my town tomorrow, and supposedly Chelsea and Bill may make stops later on the month.

    Wow, is Clinton really starting in Texas already?

    Ignoring WI to get a week's head start in TX seems really dumb. But I'm not a renowned strategist like McAulliffe or Penn, so what do I know? Clearly they know what they're doing.

    dot_star on
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Pushpolling and smear tactics, all part of the straight-talk express

    Senjutsu on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Way to show the maverick streak McCain

    nexuscrawler on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    dot_star wrote: »
    Wow, is Clinton really starting in Texas already?

    Ignoring WI to get a week's head start in TX seems really dumb. But I'm not a renowned strategist like McAulliffe or Penn, so what do I know? Clearly they know what they're doing.

    Wisconsin doesn't have too many delegates and is already strongly supporting her, according to the polls. Clearly it's safe to let Obama run amok there unchecked, because he's demonstrated no ability at all to change people's minds, given some face time.

    To be honest, though, if those articles are correct, Clinton might not have as much money as they say they do and can't really afford to book venues that aren't in her last-chance states.

    Dracomicron on
  • SenjutsuSenjutsu thot enthusiast Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Guys, Wisconsin doesn't count, because it's small and smells of cheese.

    Unless she wins it then it counts

    Senjutsu on
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »

    Ugh, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :|

    It reminded me of Obama reacting to questions about whether Hillary might be his running mate. He was trying to say "Fuck that, no way in hell would I use Rove's smear tactics," in as polite a way as possible and without actually insulting the man. He probably figures that directly criticizing Rove would be seen as directly criticizing Bush, and he's probably correct.

    ElJeffe on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Senjutsu wrote: »
    Guys, Wisconsin doesn't count, because it's mall and smells of cheese.

    Unless she wins it then it counts

    It also borders Illinois, so doesn't count.

    enlightenedbum on
    The idea that your vote is a moral statement about you or who you vote for is some backwards ass libertarian nonsense. Your vote is about society. Vote to protect the vulnerable.
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    Maybe Wisconsin could borrow some delegates from Michigan or Florida. I hear they're not doing much these days.

    ElJeffe on
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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Wisonsin is after the Beltway Primaries, right?

    Thanatos on
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Hilary has to win Texas or Ohio or both to stay in the race

    She can lose Wisconsin tho.

    nexuscrawler on
  • DracomicronDracomicron Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »

    Ugh, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :|

    It reminded me of Obama reacting to questions about whether Hillary might be his running mate. He was trying to say "Fuck that, no way in hell would I use Rove's smear tactics," in as polite a way as possible and without actually insulting the man. He probably figures that directly criticizing Rove would be seen as directly criticizing Bush, and he's probably correct.

    Yeah, it also makes the Lee Atwater reference from a couple weeks ago a little more clear. Invoking Karl Rove's name is going to inflame people in either direction. Obama is far too sanguine to really want to evoke that kind of rage.

    Actually, I think "invoking" Karl Rove's name is probably the best way of putting it. I wonder if Cheney uses a pentagram to contain him when they have strategy sessions.

    Dracomicron on
  • dot_stardot_star Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Krugman, you fucking dipshit.
    In 1956 Adlai Stevenson, running against Dwight Eisenhower, tried to make the political style of his opponent’s vice president, a man by the name of Richard Nixon, an issue. The nation, he warned, was in danger of becoming “a land of slander and scare; the land of sly innuendo, the poison pen, the anonymous phone call and hustling, pushing, shoving; the land of smash and grab and anything to win. This is Nixonland.”

    The quote comes from “Nixonland,” a soon-to-be-published political history of the years from 1964 to 1972 written by Rick Perlstein, the author of “Before the Storm.” As Mr. Perlstein shows, Stevenson warned in vain: during those years America did indeed become the land of slander and scare, of the politics of hatred.

    And it still is. In fact, these days even the Democratic Party seems to be turning into Nixonland.

    The bitterness of the fight for the Democratic nomination is, on the face of it, bizarre. Both candidates still standing are smart and appealing. Both have progressive agendas (although I believe that Hillary Clinton is more serious about achieving universal health care, and that Barack Obama has staked out positions that will undermine his own efforts). Both have broad support among the party’s grass roots and are favorably viewed by Democratic voters.

    Supporters of each candidate should have no trouble rallying behind the other if he or she gets the nod.

    Why, then, is there so much venom out there?

    I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody. I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

    What’s particularly saddening is the way many Obama supporters seem happy with the application of “Clinton rules” — the term a number of observers use for the way pundits and some news organizations treat any action or statement by the Clintons, no matter how innocuous, as proof of evil intent.

    The prime example of Clinton rules in the 1990s was the way the press covered Whitewater. A small, failed land deal became the basis of a multiyear, multimillion-dollar investigation, which never found any evidence of wrongdoing on the Clintons’ part, yet the “scandal” became a symbol of the Clinton administration’s alleged corruption.

    During the current campaign, Mrs. Clinton’s entirely reasonable remark that it took L.B.J.’s political courage and skills to bring Martin Luther King Jr.’s dream to fruition was cast as some kind of outrageous denigration of Dr. King.

    And the latest prominent example came when David Shuster of MSNBC, after pointing out that Chelsea Clinton was working for her mother’s campaign — as adult children of presidential aspirants often do — asked, “doesn’t it seem like Chelsea’s sort of being pimped out in some weird sort of way?” Mr. Shuster has been suspended, but as the Clinton campaign rightly points out, his remark was part of a broader pattern at the network.

    I call it Clinton rules, but it’s a pattern that goes well beyond the Clintons. For example, Al Gore was subjected to Clinton rules during the 2000 campaign: anything he said, and some things he didn’t say (no, he never claimed to have invented the Internet), was held up as proof of his alleged character flaws.

    For now, Clinton rules are working in Mr. Obama’s favor. But his supporters should not take comfort in that fact.

    For one thing, Mrs. Clinton may yet be the nominee — and if Obama supporters care about anything beyond hero worship, they should want to see her win in November.

    For another, if history is any guide, if Mr. Obama wins the nomination, he will quickly find himself being subjected to Clinton rules. Democrats always do.

    But most of all, progressives should realize that Nixonland is not the country we want to be. Racism, misogyny and character assassination are all ways of distracting voters from the issues, and people who care about the issues have a shared interest in making the politics of hatred unacceptable.

    One of the most hopeful moments of this presidential campaign came last month, when a number of Jewish leaders signed a letter condemning the smear campaign claiming that Mr. Obama was a secret Muslim. It’s a good guess that some of those leaders would prefer that Mr. Obama not become president; nonetheless, they understood that there are principles that matter more than short-term political advantage.

    I’d like to see more moments like that, perhaps starting with strong assurances from both Democratic candidates that they respect their opponents and would support them in the general election.

    Wow. Just, wow. The cognitive dissonance required to write this article is staggering.

    Yes, it's the Obama supporters who are making the race dirty. Was Krugman asleep or something the week of SC?

    Your own last paragraph, you sycophantic douche, is the reason why many Obama supporters will be very, very sad if they have to pull the lever for Clinton in November.

    dot_star on
  • skyknytskyknyt Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    skyknyt wrote: »
    Elendil wrote: »

    Ugh, that just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. :|

    It reminded me of Obama reacting to questions about whether Hillary might be his running mate. He was trying to say "Fuck that, no way in hell would I use Rove's smear tactics," in as polite a way as possible and without actually insulting the man. He probably figures that directly criticizing Rove would be seen as directly criticizing Bush, and he's probably correct.

    I really hope your interpretation is right, because I have a lot of respect for the man. But I really hoped that the one place you'd be allowed to say "Fuck that guy" is when he'd been responsible for badmouthing your family.

    skyknyt on
    Tycho wrote:
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    PSN: skyknyt, Steam: skyknyt, Blizz: skyknyt#1160
  • matisyahumatisyahu Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?

    matisyahu on
    i dont even like matisyahu and i dont know why i picked this username
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    So I've seen a couple references to emails allegedly circulating in upcoming primary states urging Pubs to come out and vote for Clinton, since Obama will trounce McCain come November. Anyone know offhand in what states this is even possible (ie, which states have open primaries)? Regardless, I don't see it as being a huge factor - I think Clinton revulsion amongst Pubs will overpower generic Dem revulsion.

    ElJeffe on
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  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    matisyahu wrote: »
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?

    He could always bring up Afghanistan.

    Couscous on
  • dot_stardot_star Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    matisyahu wrote: »
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?

    In a previous debate, Barry said something like "the violence in Iraq was intolerable, then completely ridiculously intolerable, and all the surge has done is bring it back to intolerable." Except way classier.

    dot_star on
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    matisyahu wrote: »
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?

    Well, I imagine the "keeping troops in Iraq for 12,000 years" pitch might do something.

    Sentry on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • saggiosaggio Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    matisyahu wrote: »
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?

    There are no troops left to maintain the surge?

    saggio on
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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    edited February 2008
    matisyahu wrote: »
    McCain's "the surge is working" line seems to be gaining a lot of traction with people, any ideas what Barack can use to counter this?
    Something like "the surge is broken. It has not accomplished what was it was intended for, and keeping these soldiers in Iraq would be folly. We cannot keep throwing more American youth into a civil war we should have no part in. We should restructure our forces in Iraq to such a level that high capacity training centers exist for the military of their duly elected government, while our soldiers are shifted out of the country entirely."

    "The only surge Iraq should be seeing at this point is a surge in their own trained military and police force, as we reduce and remove our presence from their sovereign nation."

    syndalis on
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  • SamiSami Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I don't agree with the overall thesis of Krugman's argument, I do agree that people are getting a bit carried away with the appeals to authority and pseudo-deification.

    I love the guy, but I think the amount of attention on the man himself makes it easier to dismiss him as a fad. Shit like this is just downright scary. I'm supporting Obama for the presidency in '08, not for god-emperor.

    Sami on
  • whitey9whitey9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    That secret Muslim shit really needs to stop being talked about. I had a friend that told me he's afraid of Obama because he swears in on the Koran. Holy shit that's stupid and not true. Fox New's delegate vote page has comments and they're all anti-Obama, but that's not entirely shocking.

    STEALTH MUSLIM!

    whitey9 on
    llcoolwhitey.png
  • DocDoc Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited February 2008
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    So I've seen a couple references to emails allegedly circulating in upcoming primary states urging Pubs to come out and vote for Clinton, since Obama will trounce McCain come November. Anyone know offhand in what states this is even possible (ie, which states have open primaries)? Regardless, I don't see it as being a huge factor - I think Clinton revulsion amongst Pubs will overpower generic Dem revulsion.

    It's expected. I honestly doubt that many people will do that. A tighter Pub race would have made it even less likely, but based on how few people vote in the primaries for candidates that they actually like, I have a hard time believing that more than a few will show up to vote for someone they really despise.

    Doc on
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