The new forums will be named Coin Return (based on the most recent vote)! You can check on the status and timeline of the transition to the new forums here.
The Guiding Principles and New Rules document is now in effect.
That is not brand standards- A Black Thread
Spectral Swallow
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
Today I was fired for using the descriptive word 'black'.
Let me set it up for you. I do(did) security work at Target and once a day I have these huddles where we talk about people we're looking for, that kind of thing. For the past month I'd been describing a lady we were looking for as 'A short black lady, with a shaved head' and then showing pictures.
Now two days ago one of the higher ups decided to take time out of their busy day and attend this huddle with the rest of the lower levels instead of me giving them a one on one. After the huddle she informed me that 'black' is an offensive word and that I should instead be using 'African American'.
Normally I go along with the stupid Target Talk(using Guest instead of customer, team member instead of employee) but on this one I told her it wasn't going to happen. You see my best friend in the whole wide world is black, he's never been to Africa, has no desire to go to Africa. He absolutely hates being called African American. Several other team members in the store(who I consider friends and are also black) feel the exact same way. I will ask them 'Hey who are we looking for' to which they'll respond, 'The black lady with the shaved head'.
So the next day during my huddle another higher up attends and again pulls the 'African American' card, to which I again refuse.
A short time later I was told to either call blacks African Americans or I'd be fired. I told them to do what they felt like they needed to do, because I was not going to bend on this one.
So today I go in do my shift and about 15 minutes til I have to leave I'm called into the HR office, she gives me this song and dance about not appealing to 'brand standards' and that you can't say 'black' in a professional manner. I pointed out that the 'brand standards' were saying 'white' instead of Caucasian, so if I were to say Caucasian I'd be in the exact same position. A point which she twice glossed over.
And so I was relieved. Over a non-offensive descriptive word.
So black is no longer socially accepted? But am I even in the right here? Opinions?
Let me set it up for you. I do(did) security work at Target and once a day I have these huddles where we talk about people we're looking for, that kind of thing. For the past month I'd been describing a lady we were looking for as 'A short black lady, with a shaved head' and then showing pictures.
Now two days ago one of the higher ups decided to take time out of their busy day and attend this huddle with the rest of the lower levels instead of me giving them a one on one. After the huddle she informed me that 'black' is an offensive word and that I should instead be using 'African American'.
Normally I go along with the stupid Target Talk(using Guest instead of customer, team member instead of employee) but on this one I told her it wasn't going to happen. You see my best friend in the whole wide world is black, he's never been to Africa, has no desire to go to Africa. He absolutely hates being called African American. Several other team members in the store(who I consider friends and are also black) feel the exact same way. I will ask them 'Hey who are we looking for' to which they'll respond, 'The black lady with the shaved head'.
So the next day during my huddle another higher up attends and again pulls the 'African American' card, to which I again refuse.
A short time later I was told to either call blacks African Americans or I'd be fired. I told them to do what they felt like they needed to do, because I was not going to bend on this one.
So today I go in do my shift and about 15 minutes til I have to leave I'm called into the HR office, she gives me this song and dance about not appealing to 'brand standards' and that you can't say 'black' in a professional manner. I pointed out that the 'brand standards' were saying 'white' instead of Caucasian, so if I were to say Caucasian I'd be in the exact same position. A point which she twice glossed over.
And so I was relieved. Over a non-offensive descriptive word.
So black is no longer socially accepted? But am I even in the right here? Opinions?
Spectral Swallow on
0
Posts
I don't think they'd feel any differently about their robots.
Not that anyone would refer to a customer like that within earshot, or for any other reason than to distinguish the person in a crowd, but suits are overzealous and like to assume their team members are idiots.
And what's with "Caucasian"? Caucasians are from the Caucasus. Most white people trace their ancestry elsewhere.
Do you just not know how to pick your fights, or were you looking to quit anyways? I'm leaning toward the latter, right now.
Like I briefly touched on before, many of the blacks in the store feel that African American is offensive. So I have to choose who I don't want to offend, the blacks who don't care if black is said, or the whites, who think they know what blacks want.
No secret though, the way they said it did send me into defensive mode, "You'll either say 'Black' or be fired" kinda thing.
And no, you're pretty much in the wrong. Target has a very strong policy of crafting a reputable brand and while you may disagree with it, actively going against it and defying your supervisor's attempts to correct the situation, make your firing justifiable to me. A more reasonable approach would have been writing to corporate, documenting that both team members and guests found the term offensive and attempting to correct it that way.
The Cat hit it dead on.
African American may be a stupid term (I generally use Black and it's what I hear used 99.9% of the time around here), but this is a job. You shut your mouth and do what they say, or they fire you.
I find it hard to be outraged at anyone here. Corporations just work like that. They try to cover as much ass as possible.
I don't see why you would take a stand over something so stupid and unimportant, but whatever. Also, you may very well have committed a crime by recording the conversation, which would really compound the stupid on your end. Good work.
My thing is more on the double standard of getting in trouble for saying black instead of African American, but not white.
It's just a general description that helps cut who you're looking for by half.
Why make a stand over such a pointless issue when you've already rolled over on similar stuff?
You think it's dumb? That's fine. But realize that's how all corporations operate.
Sounds like losing that job's not going to put you on the streets, so I say good for you for standing up against stupidity, even if it's a Sisyphean endeavor.
Is this going to turn into one of those racism threads?
It's more about how black is no longer P.C. and the double standard of getting in trouble for saying 'black', but not for saying 'white'.
I don't think that has anything to do with this situation. And if you are talking about Jim Crow laws, the term used was "colored."
Wait... what's wrong with Target? That's an honest question. I've mostly only ever heard bad things about Wal-Mart, so I'm missing the misdoings of the other large chain stores.
And I think the problem here is their adamant reinforcement of a policy with shitty priorities, choosing PC over pragmatism, for one.
No, I'm actually talking about the pervasive cultural overtones that influence all relations between white and black in America. While I find nothing wrong with the word 'Black' not understanding how the corporate overlords might object displays a profound lack of awareness of American society.
Essentially while there is a double standard the why of it is not nonsensical and is obvious to anybody who pays the least amount of attention.
Why would any of the higher-ups worry about it? Corporations with boards dominated with whites don't normally run into any trouble with policies, practices, or PR slips having to do with whites.
Good measure, etc.
Anyways, it seems like what you wanted to do was seem all "uncompromising" and "consistent." Well, good for you, you lost your job over something silly.
Blacks were not systematically oppressed with the word black, they're oppressed by much less tasteful words (one of which juice for jesus has named). Dark-skinned or dark-complexioned would definitely be the more PC term, since "black people" aren't black at all, and could come from anywhere.
But since we're more concerned with Today than The Olden Days, white, black, asian, are all used alone without inherent bias. However, conjunctively with derogatory words and intent they acquire that tone. I can't count the number of times I've had to call someone a "dumb fucking wasp".
Somehow I don't think the laptop is going to be offended by you calling it a notebook, nor is the coffee maker going to consider "brewer" to be offensive.
When some doof in corporate tells you to use a term you think is retarded, you use it whenever he and his ilk are around. When he and his ilk aren't around, use whatever term you want. Everyone wins. Occasionally maybe you'll slip and use the wrong term in front of the corporate doofs, in which case you say, "Shoot, I'm sorry, I slipped. Won't happen again."
ATTENTION:
Due to heightened sensitivities, use of the word "brewer" is now forbidden on the PA forums. You must refer to that word as "the b-word" or "b*****". Note that such pejoratives as "mud maker" and "counter monkey" are still acceptable.
And, this whole story really has nothing to do with the actual person being referred to being offended. This has everything to do with the people you're around being offended, perhaps on the behalf of others, perhaps needlessly, but offended anyway, just cause they can be. Shoving your head in your ass and saying "it's ridiculous" doesn't mean you get to keep your job or make them any less empowered to enforce their idea of morality on you.
SEE?!? Now you get to follow this one cause "they said so." Want to know why? They said so. You know why they get to say so? It's their board.
I work with a girl who is Apache; some people prefer the term Native American, and some prefer Indian. Now if I didn't know her preference, I probably would use Native American since that's considered more neutral.
PC terms become ridiculous but it's always easier to fall back on these for people you don't know . If I were to take anything out of this situation, it would be that.
The OP's problem is that to himself and his circle of acquaintances, the supposedly PC term African American is ignorant and mildly racist.