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Superhero/Espionage: Can Bendis Pull It Off?
Crimsondude
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
"Espionage is always political, White Queen--"
Bad Samaritan (White Queen's Bishop). Checkmate #23.
Bad Samaritan (White Queen's Bishop). Checkmate #23.
One of the more interesting peculiarities of returning to comics was finding that a genre I had come to love while I wasn't reading comics had in fact come to comics. Actually, it seems to have been around for a while. It has come to pass that several high-profile writers have added elements of the crime and espionage genres (espionage is in a way just crime with higher stakes) into superhero comics, and as it stands there are quite a few books out that have incorporated these elements into the books thoroughly, as is the case with Ed Brubaker's run on Captain America and Warren Ellis' and the Knaufs' runs on Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D., or into elements of books with more grandiose visions like the Avengers books, but even moreso in Avengers: The Initiative.
Given my predilections towards Marvel, it's seemed to be in a way concurrent with their progressive move towards making the main universe more realistic in actions and consequences, but also a reflection of real-life events. One of the scenes that particularly struck me how things are in the 616 universe is when Captain America, Nick Fury and a team from S.H.I.E.L.D. storm into one of Kronas Corp's regional towers, taking on their fully legal military-trained security forces in order to arrest General Lukin only to have them be stopped chastized by the Vice President's Chief of Staff and an Assistant to the Secretary-General of the UN, who were meeting with Lukin at the time about a pipeline to Madripoor. That moment pretty much defined both the highest stakes for espionage in the Marvel universe, as well as established how thoroughly fucked the hero community is in dealing with some of the world's most dangerous threats head-on. And that is only on aspect of a world where Hydra is involving itself in anti-American terrorism in Iraq and in the U.S., and has engaged in its own surreptitious activities that have influenced events such as World War Hulk.
And then there are the Skrulls, who have presented an intelligence and espionage threat of the highest order (or so Marvel's Secret Invasion would have us believe). A threat that in some ways reflects the espionage threats which have plagued the Ultimates in their own universe. Meanwhile, the greatest spy in Marvel has been in hiding since Secret War. One of his contemporaries is now on the Mighty Avengers, and the former sidekick of his close friend is the new Captain America--a role he assumed after spending much of the Cold War and post-Soviet era as a KGB cyborg assassin.
It's a good time to be into espionage while reading comics. It's like James Bond with even crazier powers and toys. I've been a fan of the good old-fashioned Le Carre novels and the really "street-level" (excuse some of the terminology as it's been formed around my take on espionage and this stuff in RPGs I began playing after I stopped reading comics--specifically Shadowrun, a crime/espionage game described by one reviewer as about people [shadowrunners, eqv. generally to adventurers] "who shoot people in the face for money.") no-toys situations where it's two people at a table with one trying to get the other to become a traitor to their country or cause. But it's fun to read about the stealthy break-ins and covert collection and commando stuff as well. There isn't a lack of of this stuff to enjoy, from the aforementioned books to books and stories which involve S.H.I.E.L.D. or Checkmate or the various groups in the Wildstorm universe even to Devil's Due G.I. Joe run.
This is a thread for covering a lot of books and stories that can easily find their way to clutter up other threads. It was originally going to be a Captain America thread until I realized that somehow it doesn't seem to inspire the same level of discussion or enthusiasm as Iron Fist or the collection of X-books. So, this is for Cap. And Tony. And Checkmate.
Also, as a general matter I actually want this thread to discuss the politics in comics. Mainly so it doesn't clutter up other threads.
First issue comes up from another thread where I was commenting on the preview for Captain America #35. As it stands, the bad guys are winning and the heroes are fucked sideways. This is a situation where the heroes are expected and even forced to fight dirty and from the shadows. It's almost a classic thriller, where the bureaucrats and men and women on the ground are trying to do what they do best while faced with political leaders who are unwilling or outright hostile to their efforts for reasons ranging from being run by the bad guy to being influenced by money and world-view to not immediately see Kronas is acting in a more adverse way than just trying to boost its Q1 profits.
Recommended Books: Ongoing
Casanova
Captain America
Checkmate
Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Madame Mirage
BPRD: 1946
Captain America
Checkmate
Iron Man: Director of S.H.I.E.L.D.
Madame Mirage
BPRD: 1946
Recommended Books: Minis/Complete Series TPB
Sleeper
Point Blank
Queen and Country (Also, Q&C novels by Greg Rucka)
DMZ
Human Target
The Losers
The Ultimates/The Ultimates 2
Point Blank
Queen and Country (Also, Q&C novels by Greg Rucka)
DMZ
Human Target
The Losers
The Ultimates/The Ultimates 2
Upcoming Books
Captain Britain & MI:13
Invincible Iron Man
Punisher War Journal - Jigsaw Arc
Secret Invasion (Anything with Nick Fury or MI-13)
Spider-Woman
Anything OMAC-related
Individual OOP character minis/graphic novels (e.g., Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.; Black Widow, etc.)
Invincible Iron Man
Punisher War Journal - Jigsaw Arc
Secret Invasion (Anything with Nick Fury or MI-13)
Spider-Woman
Anything OMAC-related
Individual OOP character minis/graphic novels (e.g., Nick Fury: Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.; Black Widow, etc.)
Related: Crime ("Espionage is crime with higher stakes")
Criminal
Civil War: Underworld
Scalped
Gotham Central
Civil War: Underworld
Scalped
Gotham Central
Crimsondude on
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but it sounds to me like you should read sleeper right now, if you haven't already
To be quite blunt all of this is why I love Ed Brubaker so much.
now's the perfect time, then, because they just started releasing these, which are 20 dollar collections of three trades worth of queen and country. it's what i got virral for secret santron, actually. i think you'd really like it. it's very political.
edit- i don't mean 'politial' in like a right-wing/left-wing 'message' type of political, just that maneuvering and political machinations are a huge part of the series.
sorry, i guess this is a little off the superhero/espionage topic, but i love spy comics too and any time i get the chance to recommend some...
In fact, considering Xavier was running a whole thing, and he'd sent Sage undercover into the Hellfire Club before even forming an X-Men, it'd be pretty interesting if they did an 'Secret X-Men' or some such book taking place pre-M day.
God bless you, good sir.
I agree that Casanova's a great comic. I mean, frankly my pull list is pretty much composed of these books anymore.
Captain America
Iron Man
Casanova
Those are my big three, of course. But it also includes stuff like Madame Mirage and G.I. Joe and the Avengers books.
I like that Fraction's PWJ has G.W. Bridges putting together an all-woman Six Pack (of three) to catch Frank whose members can arguably (if not outright) be considered super-spies. I am digging the many levels of intrigue that has been built into Initiative.
To be honest, I'd be really pleased to see a SHIELD book like Checkmate. I know that there aren't a lack of books with SHIELD in them, but something focused more on the field work and less on the trevails of Tony Stark (although his own role in dealing with the espionage and political shit has been done to great effect in his and Cap's books). But the current arc has focused so much on his battle with Mandarin and less on the fact that SHIELD could (to borrow a bad joke I brought upon myself from another thread) be considered to be the domain of plant people.
Actually, Irredeemable Ant-Man had a good story going of some of the agents and their own machinations and squabbles.
On another note I love Ultimate marvel for the shady dealings that seem to be integral to its workings. Maybe because it's supposed to be more realistic or something, but I love it. It's like what Nick fury says in Ultimates #1 "crime is becoming super-crime, terrorism is becoming super-terrorism." and spying is becoming super-spying. I also like how so many hero/villain origins are tied into the super soldier serum. It makes the universe seem very coherent. I mean not everything is tied to that: x-men aren't, FF aren't, tony stark isn't, but spider-man and a lot of his villains are, not to mention the ultimates. And SHIELD seems to show up everywhere, which I like.
I've looked a little, but it's not that easy. The bitch of it is that the person who introduced me to comics was into Wolverine (excuse me. Patch) and Nick Fury, so if anyone I knew would have them, he would. Shame we're no longer on speaking terms.
From the Annihilation thread: But let's look at the flipside. Manyb humans distrust supers and mutants. And politicians are generally humans. You've got Hydra in Congress. You've got Red Skull doing God knows what. And you've got a President who since Secret Wars has been painted pretty blatantly as anti-super. Now you add all those people who blame the death of the electric car on Exxon. Well, Roxxon pays the RNC a lot in Marvel. And I have no doubt some of that money buys time to convince politicians putting your faith in the clean energy of mutants or supers is absurd, dangerous, or outright stupid. Unless you get the Flash's fate in DK2. And now there a whole apparratus to help impede supers: CSA, ONE, SHIELD, SWORD, Initiative. All staffed and generally led by humans, most of whom are appointed by the same President who has no respect nor regard for supers, especially because for every Hank Pym saving his life there's a million supervillains and "heroes" like Sentry, who are better off left in a cabin in Vermont. Plus there's a whole regulatory system to slow up and outwit even Richards and Stark.
If the supers had the time or inclination, maybe they could stop this or nudge things their way.
There was actually a saying in some book after M-day, that the mutants had put every nation on an even level. With the mutants gone, you were left with tech geniuses, science experiments, and alien types providing the majority of superhumans, and what nation had the most of those? M-Day won the superpower arms race for the US in one moment.
Well, given that thus-far in Marvel, the most any other nation had fielded (except for Canada's Alpha Flight) was the occasionally SINGLE villain or hero, it appears that the arms race had been won already.
I mean, despite those millions of mutants - remember, something like 6-9 million (I forget the exact #) died in Genosha, and that wasn't the majority of mutants on earth - it appears most of them were just worthless insofar as military might. Hell, half the mutants in Mutant Town appeared to just be physical variations without any major advantageous ability.
We can't forget that if Reed is sitting there trying to cure world hunger, Doctor Doom is probbly off reading the Necronomicon and the Books of Skelos in order to summon some long forgotten demon to destroy Reed's plans. Not because he doesn't want world hunger ended, simply because he wants to do it himself.
Point being that you can't sit down to solve real problems if you're always putting out fires. I don't know if the villain population is larger or smaller than the hero population, but if the heroes time is always devoted to stopping supercrime and super terrorism, they would never get the time to solve real world problems. And you can't say oh they should just ignore supercrime for a bit, because noone else can handle it. Real people can handle real world problems like hunger, genocide, etc. The whole nature of the superhero makes him a reactive force, like a cop or a firefighter.
You might want to check out BIG TOWN if you're interested in the idea of Richards/Stark/etc using advanced technology to change the world. Unfortunately, the book ran into editorial problems, detailed here:
http://www.mania.com/25689.html
I think it could have been successful with a writer like Morrison, Ellis, or Brubaker.
And Queen and Country rocks, I can't wait for the next definitive volume to be released so I can get another hit.
Why?
And how about superheroes with superheroes? Because every time somebody tries to do that (Gravity, anyone? Brand New Day?) the books either sell poorly or become "cult".
I've been waiting for over a decade now for the "let's do superheroes IN REAL LIFE" idea to stop feeling "modern" and "edgy" to creators and readers. I honestly didn't expect it to last this long, particularly when the fundational opus of the whole thing is also 20 years old and the best entry in it.
I don't need comics to feel archaic and I can accept elements of noir or spy novels to work their way into superhero comic books (at least some superhero comic books). I totally hate that a cynical approach has become the norm to every book.
As for politics in comics, it's the same deal. I love political works like Ex Machina and V of Vendetta. I don't really need more realistic or accurate deptictions than that, and the sci-fi elements are still fun in that context. I don't even hate the approach of the Civil War, though it felt... inconsistent, I guess. Creators seemed to disagree about the reality of the fake elements they were discussing. But, really, I don't want that to take over superhero books as the next fad.
I believe I read every superhero book that is currently published. I'm European, so imports aside I we're on a 6 months delay. I'm reading and loving Brand New Day, I really like Dan Slott's Avengers: The Initiative, and I liked his Hulka. It was, however, one of those good superhero books that never got a large following. It happened to Peter David, too, in pretty much everything he did, from Captain Marvel to X-Factor. Spider-Girl is always borderline cancelled, too... Nextwave was one of those "real superhero" books I hated and Iron Man has been good before, just not in the last 5 years. Heck, to be honest, not since Busiek was in the book.
And, to be fair with DC, things like Robin, 52 and a few Teen Titan runs have been excellent. I love what Morrison does with Batman, too.
I'm not saying there aren't books out there I love. There are. I'm saying the trend right now is for high-profile books to be "edgy" and "realistic", and I hate that trend. At the same time, though, really edgy and realistic books aren't allowed to go mainstream unless they are somehow superhero related. I hate that trend, too.
(Whatever you do, don't get Countdown. If you really have to, start at 15 weeks left or so. Teen Titans is also terrible lately.)
Wait. What.
I hate to break it to you, but Initiative is as much an espionage and political book as Cap and the Knauf's run on Iron Man (and I can't believe you don't think Extremis is good. I love it, and ask anyone here... I am not PA's biggest fan of Warren Ellis' work by any stretch). And Peter David's "Professor" Hulk arcs so fall under the umbrella of this thread.
I guess we're not taking about the same thing, then.
I guess you're talking about any instances of espionage or political intrigue within superhero books, I'm talking about the spy novel genre bleeding into superhero comic books.
I mean, I might be a few months behind on The Initiative, but the issues I've read are very much about a superhero group of teenagers, down to the World War Hulk issues. It's not like anybody's going black widow on anybody in that one.
As for Extremis, I never made it past the fact that Tony Stark ALREADY had his central nervous system replaced by machines back in the day. I mean, how many times is he going to go from normal human being to "guy who can mentally connect to machines"? He already could do that, which made Extremis an ok standalone take on Iron Man but a mess in continuity. I really hate that every writer with a limited run on Iron Man ends up going for the "Tony Stark is a cyborg" angle. Quesada did it too, remember? And so did Scott Card on his Ultimate mini.
I actually prefer the character when he does fall into the scope of this thread. I liked the older issues with Shield trying to take his company away from him to keep it making weapons from them with a new pacifist Stark looking for ways to turn that around.
yeah, i thought his entire body was made of brain tissue or something. that's not exactly how they word it, but it's something like that.
I enjoyed when:
So much for the whole he's just a smart guy with cool armor approach. Heh. I remember asking my roommate what was going on in that book since he read Vol. 1 and got issues 1 & 2 of Vol. 2 last week. I think response was along the lines of 'I'm still not quite sure....I think Iron Man is a giant brain and for some reason he has brown hair instead of black in volume 2.'
His cover's blown! HE'S ONE OF THEM!
Anyway, what's the barrier of entry for cyborg race? Normal Iron Man has, by now, a technological nervous system, not one but two layers of fake skin made of circuits and plastic that can spew goo to control his armor and a technological uplink to any machine that can be accessed remotely. Sounds kinda cyborg-y to me.
U-Iron Man is a giant hipersensitive walking brain covered by nanomachines to prevent him to be in constant pain. I guess that's more a freak than a cyborg, but still the same concept.
No, I read the first one, but it still makes very little sense. He's supposed to regenerate tissue and use all kinds of tissue to think or something like that, but it still makes very little sense.
I hate the concept, anyway. Why does everybody need to be freakish that way? What's the problem with a normal guy doing extraordinary things? They did the same thing with Reed Richards. All of a sudden he has no internal organs, no need to eat or breathe and his mind can wrap around anything because, you know, he's elastic.
Damn.
Let me add, completely out of context, that Mark Millar should stop writing now and everything he's done removed from continuity everywhere and sealed away so that the fumes won't affect any other writers.
Ok, so it's not that bad, but I completely hate the way he thinks, the way he plots and the way he writes dialogue.