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How to create a democracy

Ethan SmithEthan Smith Origin name: Beart4toArlington, VARegistered User regular
edited February 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
I was thinking about this on the way home. I had been thinking for a long time about how a democracy goes from a democracy to an authoritarian state, in order to, in the future, be aware of what would be 'ideal' conditions for a coup, which would interests me, especially with the fact that I will probably live abroad for much of my life, so that would be about the time to leave.

However, then I realized something-most democracies we have in the world are rather stable. There are far fewer stable, 'uncorrupt' (which I will use to mean that there are multiple viable parties present, not that the system is uncorrupt. Compare America to, say, Nepal. Nepal might be less 'corrupt', but it hardly qualifies as a democracy) democracies than there are authoritarian nations.

So I was thinking-what DO you need to create a democracy out of a monarchy or a dictatorship? One that has multiple parties and little chance of falling back to dictatorship?

I have a couple ideas, but I can still think of counterexamples, and I technically have to write an essay on the advancements in Military tactics right now, so I'll wait until tomorrow before I post my ideas.

Ethan Smith on

Posts

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    There are actually formulae for getting a general idea of how long a democracy will last, once it's established. The one I was at one time familiar with factored in a bunch of economic, ethnic, and historical things in order to come up with a rough number. Anything like that is going to have some outliers, though, in this case, India, where they only had one thing going for them (being a former British colony, for some unknown reason, means more inherently stable democracy) and every other factor against them. According to the formula, they should have been overthrown long ago.

    Thanatos on
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  • MatrijsMatrijs Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Just throwing out a suggestion of one possible factor: whether the democracy in question is created by way of internal insurrection or by invasion and occupation.

    Matrijs on
  • Not SarastroNot Sarastro __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    You need a cultural & political history of growing democratic ideas and institutions. It simply doesn't happen overnight.

    Not Sarastro on
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  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I don't think you can reduce human society to basic formulas really, not unless there is someway to factor in emotion, luck and other similar concepts. You can of course look at a situation and say "of course, X and W occurred or are present so that is how Z happened" but there are too many situations where similar events in different places didn't have the same result to make it a valid formula.

    What kept France reverting to democracy throughout the 19/20th century despite frequent coups/monarchist revivals/depression/war etc?

    What made Germany revert to non democratic forms of government, despite a highly educated and advanced society?

    Who the fuck really knows?

    For modern examples (for the purposes of your essay) you should look at South Korea, Taiwan, Indonesia, Brazil, Chile, Argentina and Thailand. They are probably the best examples of dictatorship/military rule transitioning to democracy in the last couple of decades.

    Or if you want to be more adventurous you could look at the racial democracies of South Africa and Rhodesia (Zimbabwe) and how they first created democratic government, then limited it to to specified racial groups then transitioned to multi racial democracy in the last 30 years, then in Zimbabwe's case transitioned to one party rule and dictatorship.

    Or even Fiji - a former British colony that has suffered a bunch of coups, which led to a creation of a racially biased democracy that in the end didn't stop yet more coups.

    Kalkino on
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  • GoodOmensGoodOmens Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    There needs to be systems for the propogation of information and ideas to and between the citizens. Knowledge and information is crucial for a functioning democracy. This could take the form of a developed education system, vigorous and free media, widespread Internet access, etc.

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  • Loren MichaelLoren Michael Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    International pressure directed at elites and being outpaced by other liberal democratic countries are good incentives. Beyond that, the populace has to want it.

    I suspect that the former British colony things stems from them(frequently) trying to impose British government infrastructures into countries without ripping out local cultures by the roots.

    Thailand is kind of funny, as they're a democracy, but they have a coup every fifteen or twenty years.

    Loren Michael on
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  • Andrew_JayAndrew_Jay Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The old formula was economic development - people who are comfortable and with their needs reasonably met don't vote for, and don't tolerate, communists and fascists. They instead settle for a nice middle ground which has a greater chance of surviving. This remains more or less true today, with a high correlation between wealth and democracy, but not no so much as when Lipset carried out his original work in the 50's and 60's because of the new countries in Africa and elsewhere. It has worked in some (Botswana being an extreme example), and failed in many others.

    I think a major dimension is the nature of the economy, even more important these days with the high price of oil. Economies centered on one activity (like oil) create a "winner take all" problem. When you're the government of Nigeria, Gabon, Russia or Venezuela the consequences of losing power are just too great - you're shut off from not only political power (as happens everywhere) but also from economic power. Throw ethnicity into this and the problem is even worse. Sunnis in Iraq are afraid not only of being shut out of government by the numerically superiour Shi'ites, but losing access to the country's wealth (and a say in how it is disbursed) - there's no oil in the Sunni-populated western deserts.
    Kalkino wrote:
    What made Germany revert to non democratic forms of government, despite a highly educated and advanced society?
    Education is one very important factor that is identified, but there was also economic malaise that affected people's attitudes in Wiemar Germany. The Urban-Rural divide is also interesting - hardly anyone voted for the Nazis in Berlin or other major cities.

    To put this notion of "the people have to want it" into more formal terms - there needs to be a significant degree of civil society participation and autonomy for individuals and their organisations. That basically means people interacting an a political and non-political fashion outside of the state's sphere. If everyone's "extra-curricular activities" are limited to attending a meeting of the local chapter of the Hitler Youth or the neighbourhood's Revolutionary Defence Council, it's not going to work.

    I think the best example would be Burma - the people have demonstrated that they want democracy (and they elected a democratic government ages ago, it just never got to serve), they have networks through which to organise protests and political activity, such as their religion. Moreover, unlike Iraq, there is not the ethnic divide which creates a fear for any change in the status-quo.

    Andrew_Jay on
  • FirstComradeStalinFirstComradeStalin Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I've always assumed the #1 thing you need to create a democracy is stability. I mean, there are other factors that need to fall into place, but this is the main thing.

    FirstComradeStalin on
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  • bowtiedsealbowtiedseal Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    In order for democracy to function, capable institutions need to be present, people need to view themselves as sharing a communal identity, the state has to have authority and capacity (and be transparent and responsible), and there has to be the presence of political will among all the actors, among many other factors.

    bowtiedseal on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There are actually formulae for getting a general idea of how long a democracy will last, once it's established. The one I was at one time familiar with factored in a bunch of economic, ethnic, and historical things in order to come up with a rough number. Anything like that is going to have some outliers

    As in, "this theory is crap, so it will only loosely mimic past events and be useless for predicting the future"?

    Shinto on
  • JustPlainPavekJustPlainPavek Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Civil society organizations are a key precursor to representative democracy. They don't even have to be explicitly political. Taiwan's one-party rule under the KMT collapsed in part due to the protests of environmental groups and religious associations. The democracy movement came out of these groups in large part because traditional avenues for political dissent, like the formation of rival political parties, were blocked by the state. A bunch of tree-huggers and religious services were thought to be safe to ignore. It's no coincidence that the People's Republic of China licenses its priests and imams.

    edit - oops, I see Andrew_Jay sort of already made this point. Well, what he said too.

    JustPlainPavek on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Just throwing out a suggestion of one possible factor: whether the democracy in question is created by way of internal insurrection or by invasion and occupation.
    You've only got two examples of democracy created by invasion and occupation in the world, and both of those had at least some history of democracy before the invasion. No one has ever managed to create democracy wholly from external pressure without at least some pre-existing social infrastructure for it.

    Thanatos on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Shinto wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There are actually formulae for getting a general idea of how long a democracy will last, once it's established. The one I was at one time familiar with factored in a bunch of economic, ethnic, and historical things in order to come up with a rough number. Anything like that is going to have some outliers

    As in, "this theory is crap, so it will only loosely mimic past events and be useless for predicting the future"?
    Eh? Any theory you come up with is going to have an outlier or two. It's not supposed to be a hard and fast rule, in any case, just a guide.

    Thanatos on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Shinto wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    There are actually formulae for getting a general idea of how long a democracy will last, once it's established. The one I was at one time familiar with factored in a bunch of economic, ethnic, and historical things in order to come up with a rough number. Anything like that is going to have some outliers

    As in, "this theory is crap, so it will only loosely mimic past events and be useless for predicting the future"?
    Eh? Any theory you come up with is going to have an outlier or two. It's not supposed to be a hard and fast rule, in any case, just a guide.

    Yeah, I'd like to see it accurately predict anything more than two years in advance.

    I don't know if you could even rank me as extremely skeptical about this theory. I am beyond skeptical.

    Shinto on
  • MatrijsMatrijs Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Just throwing out a suggestion of one possible factor: whether the democracy in question is created by way of internal insurrection or by invasion and occupation.
    You've only got two examples of democracy created by invasion and occupation in the world, and both of those had at least some history of democracy before the invasion. No one has ever managed to create democracy wholly from external pressure without at least some pre-existing social infrastructure for it.

    Well, that's the point, isn't it? It's hard to get a democracy started via invasion and occupation. And actually, I can think of at least four countries which are nominally democracies where that form of government was instituted by invaders: Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, and Iraq are all at least nominally democracies created by invasion. Maybe Kosovo, too, if it manages to maintain its independence.

    Matrijs on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    Matrijs wrote: »
    Just throwing out a suggestion of one possible factor: whether the democracy in question is created by way of internal insurrection or by invasion and occupation.
    You've only got two examples of democracy created by invasion and occupation in the world, and both of those had at least some history of democracy before the invasion. No one has ever managed to create democracy wholly from external pressure without at least some pre-existing social infrastructure for it.

    Well, that's the point, isn't it? It's hard to get a democracy started via invasion and occupation. And actually, I can think of at least four countries which are nominally democracies where that form of government was instituted by invaders: Germany, Japan, Afghanistan, and Iraq are all at least nominally democracies created by invasion. Maybe Kosovo, too, if it manages to maintain its independence.
    Personally, I don't think it counts if they're still being occupied (and no, I don't count Japan or Germany as "occupied," despite the presence of U.S. bases).

    And Kosovo wasn't created by invasion and occupation. They were protected by NATO, but NATO didn't say "okay, you're declaring independence now, and forming your own country. Oh, and it's going to be a democracy." They did that on their own; NATO only kept their collective ass out of the fire.

    Thanatos on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    The think what it comes down to, what sums up all the usual answers to this question, is this: power should be dispersed and decentralized to multiple sections of society.

    Shinto on
  • KalkinoKalkino Buttons Londres Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    But that is a pretty broad answer which is almost so broad as to be unhelpful

    Kalkino on
    Freedom for the Northern Isles!
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