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The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hopRegistered User regular
edited February 2008 in Debate and/or Discourse
So I heard a report on NPR a while back about Gotcha Capitalism, a book apparently (and an absolutely terrible title, if you ask me), which deals with all the hidden fees that companies charge consumers.

It's kinda amazing, really -- just today my company was double-billed by UPS for emptying one shipping canister, because there were technically two shipments that had been consolidated inside one canister. So for doing the same work they do in another canister, they charged twice (to the tune of an extra $450 or so), simply because there were "two" shipments in there. When paying my internet bill, I was also informed that starting in March Comcast will charge $3.95 if you speak with a real, live customer service representative when paying your bill. Lord knows expecting businesses to help their customers is asking something above and beyond what a normal customer should do. Working at a rental car company, I also see how they charge $4.10/gal. if you return the car less than full, because like gas is more expensive when I pump it as opposed to someone else, you know, my services are at a premium, and I even heard about another company charging a flat $2 "top off" fee to all returning customers.

So anyway it's all over the place. The best example that I heard from the book was cell phone companies who charge a fee, with some kind of clever wording, along with all the local state and municipal taxes, simply for collecting those taxes. So there's the $49.99 fee you're quoted, then taxes on top of that, then a small fee collected simply for collecting the taxes.

You get the point -- it goes on.

So the pertinent question, as I see it, is -- should the government do anything about this? Personally I wouldn't have any problem if this type of bullshit was outlawed and consumer protections were written into the law. Comcast is essentially a monopoly for cable service in the area, and they now fucking charge you for supplying customer service? The mind reels. The DMV may be a pain in the ass, but at least they don't bill you simply for walking up to the counter.

Unfortunately, writing consumer protections would obviously be insanely difficult. What is a legitimate fee and what isn't? Where do we draw the line? Can competition really fix this when the 7 or 8 cell phone providers all engage in the same fucking bullshit? When the only cable company in town bilks you ever which way they can?

So anyway talk about government regulation, how shitty the private sector is (seriously, the myth that the private sector is more efficient than the public one is one of the bigger lies ever told -- it's just more profitable), the stupidest fee you've ever paid, whatever.





--I was going to put a silly disclaimer down here about what will happen to you in this thread if you post wrong or something, but then I didn't feel like it. Just imagine how funny it would have been, though, and like relevant to underscoring my point and such. It would have been very much of both, let me tell you.

The Green Eyed Monster on
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Posts

  • whitey9whitey9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The new Wired has an article from Chris Anderson* about companies offering things for free or extremely cheap and then making money on hidden fees. To the company, costs are increasing and they don't want to raise prices, so they start with the hidden fees to make up the difference, but I think that ends up leaving a far worst taste in the customer's mouth, and will ultimately F them in the A.

    *The Long Tail is probably the worst offender in the category of "using an entire book to convey a point that could be illustrated in two paragraphs".

    whitey9 on
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  • The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    whitey9 wrote: »
    The new Wired has an article from Chris Anderson* about companies offering things for free or extremely cheap and then making money on hidden fees. To the company, costs are increasing and they don't want to raise prices, so they start with the hidden fees to make up the difference, but I think that ends up leaving a far worst taste in the customer's mouth, and will ultimately F them in the A.

    *The Long Tail is probably the worst offender in the category of "using an entire book to convey a point that could be illustrated in two paragraphs".
    Except when ever company is hiding fees all over the place, where do you turn?

    Portland Comcast's customer service is one of the most abysmal I've ever encountered (and local cable companies are pretty bad) but what else are my options for cable TV? There's Direct TV, obviously (I haven't done my homework on that), but from what I hear, it's not like they're the paragon of transparency and forthrightness with their customers, either.

    Or cell phone service, for example. Is there a provider that doesn't tack on $6-7 above whatever the advertised price is? If so, why aren't they advertising that fact? I think mainly every company hides fees because they can, and it's not like they're skimming money off consumers like this to save a faltering business model, that money is going straight into shareholders' pockets.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I was just thinking how criminal banks can get away with being. It used to be, insufficient funds meant your card was declined. Now they let you charge all day so as to rack up a $30 fee per charge (conveniently processing the larger charges first so as to accrue more fines) and a negative balance fee of $fuckingyou/day. I requested that they make my card decline in event of insufficient funds, and they apparently can't.

    When I go to pay my credit card bill online, the balance is on the front page of my account screen, but I have to copy/paste it because it appears nowhere on the bill-paying screens. Tricky bitches.

    Don't get me started on cellphone companies.

    Also, Consumerist.com

    edit: and fucking Christ, I have a decently large TV, and if I can't read the fine print, it's too damn fine.

    TL DR on
  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Don't some cell phone companies charge you a fee if you DON'T use long distance? That always seemed completely ridiculous to me.

    YodaTuna on
  • whitey9whitey9 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    whitey9 on
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  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    YodaTuna on
  • LaOsLaOs SaskatoonRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Don't some cell phone companies charge you a fee if you DON'T use long distance? That always seemed completely ridiculous to me.

    Is that true?

    LaOs on
  • stiliststilist Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I believe the traditional ‘solution’ has been to require companies clarify their billing procedures for the public. Not that anybody actually pays attention, of course.

    Sneaky little fees are the main remaining way for companies to act out on their hatred for customers.

    stilist on
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  • YodaTunaYodaTuna Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    LaOs wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    Don't some cell phone companies charge you a fee if you DON'T use long distance? That always seemed completely ridiculous to me.

    Is that true?

    I think it was cell phone companies. You're not using a service they are offering and they claim it costs them money so they charge you.

    YodaTuna on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I was just thinking how criminal banks can get away with being. It used to be, insufficient funds meant your card was declined. Now they let you charge all day so as to rack up a $30 fee per charge (conveniently processing the larger charges first so as to accrue more fines) and a negative balance fee of $fuckingyou/day. I requested that they make my card decline in event of insufficient funds, and they apparently can't.

    On the one hand, I'm with YodaTuna on the "you know what you have in the bank" train. On the other hand, I do think it's cheap that they run the charges is descending order based on size, to maximize fees.

    Also, I'm often honestly curious just exactly how those fees are justified. I mean, $30 on a single check or charge is one thing...there may well be an average cost of collections involved. But charging somebody like $300 when they'd only have (in theory) been like $16 over their balance (yay for small charges)? Is there any earthly way to actually justify that fee other than "because they can?" Especially since the entire system is automated now?

    Which brings me to the issue I really wanted to bitch about. So I have overdraft protection on my checking account. All it does is, if I overdraw with a check or charge, transfer that amount from my savings to my checking. Sounds pretty spiffy. The charge for this? Like $25 per transaction. An overdraft is $35.

    Now, if instead I simply transfer the funds myself then make the charge, how much do I pay? $0.

    So I'm paying a computer program $25 a pop to transfer money for me automatically. There is no human being involved here. Are computer cycles really this valuable?

    Basically, banks will take any and every opportunity to charge you a fee in my experience. Some justifiable, some less so.


    You know what else I love? Only tangentially related, but anybody looked at a student bill lately? Discounting housing and heath insurance, I pay like $2500 a semester in tuition and another $1500 in fees. On the one hand, maybe having a nice little itemized list of exactly what each amount goes towards makes some students feel good. On the other hand, many scholarships and other financial incentives (including some offered, coincidentally, by the school or state) are based on the amount of tuition and not fees. So maybe there's a reason they don't just roll that $60 athletic fee and $40 computer lab fee into your tuition. Fuckers.


    Oh, and for charging for not using long distance: our old phone company did this. Though it wasn't so much a fee for not using long distance, but rather a fee for blocking it so it can't be used on your line. If having long-distance access is a default state (and I'd assume it is) I can imagine perhaps this might cost at least some small amount extra to implement...but not per month. No, rather it's an obvious ploy to convince you to carry long distance service in the hopes that you'll wind up using it.

    mcdermott on
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    the main issue with overdraft fees is that they wait until you get back above 0 to charge you the overdraft. so you then get overdrafted for the overdraft

    so basically, until you can pay off all your fees, plus the overdraft fees you incurred, you will just be overdrafted again back into debt.

    its a scam.

    Disrupter on
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  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The solution isn't to try to regulate fees; the solution is to regulate how they're allowed to advertise their prices. This "$49.99 a month" then having $20 thrown on top of that in fees is fucking ridiculous. Their should be a law that your final bill isn't allowed to be more than what they advertise plus a la carte services.

    Thanatos on
  • IreneDAdlerIreneDAdler Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    As much as I hate these dumb fees myself, I'll just play Devil's Advocate for a second here and propose that the fees aren't so much to generate revenue as to encourage certain types of customer behavior to make things easier on their end. Taking the rental car example, I think it's likely that they charge that much extra for gas in order to encourage customers to fill up the tank themselves (the $2 top-off charge makes no sense this way, though, so maybe those guys are just being dicks) so that the rental place doesn't have to deal with it; or, more specifically, pay people to fill it up, because the time an employee spends on filling the tank is time they could be spending doing something else. Thus, by incentivizing customers to fill up themselves, they are decreasing the demands on the man-hours at the branch.

    Anyway, I don't think these retarded fees are fun to pay or anything. You might even argue that it's the company's job to give you the service you want, not for you to accomodate their operational procedures. But I just wanted to raise the point that those fees aren't always just another attempt to nickle-and-dime the consumer out of house and home.

    IreneDAdler on
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  • DelzhandDelzhand Hard to miss. Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    celery77 wrote: »
    Or cell phone service, for example. Is there a provider that doesn't tack on $6-7 above whatever the advertised price is? If so, why aren't they advertising that fact? I think mainly every company hides fees because they can, and it's not like they're skimming money off consumers like this to save a faltering business model, that money is going straight into shareholders' pockets.

    www.tracfone.com

    This is what I use. The customer service is great, too. The people don't speak the best english, and you have to repeat your name/address a few times in general, but they don't hang up until you're taken care of, even when it's weird shit that has to be sorted out at the actual cellular towers (I have no idea, but it's what happened to me).

    They also send out mailers pretty frequently that give you bonus minutes when you buy minutes, and you get bonus minutes automatically for random shit, like your birthday and Valentine's day.

    Delzhand on
  • TL DRTL DR Not at all confident in his reflexive opinions of thingsRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    While we're at it, what the fuck, gas stations?

    "Gas today is $3.149 a gallon"

    You should not be able to charge an extra fucking 9/10 of a cent on every gallon, just because you know people don't pay attention and it looks slightly cheaper. There is no good reason for that shit.

    TL DR on
  • PodlyPodly you unzipped me! it's all coming back! i don't like it!Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Here's what happened to me a few days ago. I'm a poor college student, and it was a day before pay day, which means I had VERY little money in my checkings account. How little? $4.40. Yep. Well I hadn't eaten all day, and I needed some protein because I hadn't had meat in a few days and the fridge was empty. I got some chicken and peppers for like $4.30. I didn't overdraft. However, Bank of America has "keep the change," so they rounded up and fucked me over $35. Luckily I've never overdrafted before and I was able to get them to overturn it after twenty minutes or so, but this is the kind of stuff that Banks do to make sure that they make money -- a lot of programs that look helpful, but actually are harmful to the consumer.

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  • FunkyWaltDoggFunkyWaltDogg Columbia, SCRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    While we're at it, what the fuck, gas stations?

    "Gas today is $3.149 a gallon"

    You should not be able to charge an extra fucking 9/10 of a cent on every gallon, just because you know people don't pay attention and it looks slightly cheaper. There is no good reason for that shit.

    Everyone does it the same, and everyone has for my lifetime at least, so I don't see the problem.

    FunkyWaltDogg on
  • Marty81Marty81 Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    The system only works when consumers are fully informed, so yes something should be done. What, I don't know. Thanatos's suggestion might be a good place to start.

    Marty81 on
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I like Comcast's internet pricing. The teaser 3 or 6 month rate usually runs at $19.99 a month. For new customers. For existing customers, it's around $42 a month. If you also bundle it with TV. If you want only cable internet from Comcast, it's $60 plus. But you don't see that anywhere on their website, until you're setting up the install appointment. They advertise the teaser with the disclaimer that it jumps to the regular rate, but bury the non-TV rate 9/10ths of the way into registration. I dropped Comcast TV because it was utter crap in exchange for DirecTV, my $42 a month internet and $55 a month TV bill turned into a $72 a month internet bill. They did nothing but shut off a service, by unscrewing a connector. I can't wait for FiOS to finally come to Chicago.

    matt has a problem on
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  • METAzraeLMETAzraeL Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Delzhand wrote: »
    celery77 wrote: »
    Or cell phone service, for example. Is there a provider that doesn't tack on $6-7 above whatever the advertised price is? If so, why aren't they advertising that fact? I think mainly every company hides fees because they can, and it's not like they're skimming money off consumers like this to save a faltering business model, that money is going straight into shareholders' pockets.

    www.tracfone.com

    This is what I use. The customer service is great, too. The people don't speak the best english, and you have to repeat your name/address a few times in general, but they don't hang up until you're taken care of, even when it's weird shit that has to be sorted out at the actual cellular towers (I have no idea, but it's what happened to me).

    They also send out mailers pretty frequently that give you bonus minutes when you buy minutes, and you get bonus minutes automatically for random shit, like your birthday and Valentine's day.

    LIES! You obviously work for them!

    kidding, but I absolutely hated my tracfone. Yeah, they don't tack on hidden fees because they can't, but they do actively waste your minutes that you buy. One example is how they send you ad-texts talking about deals and whatnot. It wouldn't be a big problem, but you have to read each text if you want to see any of the others in your inbox, and it costs units to read texts. Another problem is that the phones randomly switch to reading your location as out of the local area, meaning you get charged double units. I would be sitting in my room, call one person fine, then call another and realize I was roaming or whatever the term is that they use.

    After dealing with them, and realizing I hated having a phone with me all the time, I switched back to a wired phone plan with decent prices.

    METAzraeL on

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  • DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    On that topic... cell phone contracts in general are bullshit in the US. In Europe you can buy your phone from a store and THEN choose what service provider you want. Here in the US it's all "you have to use our provider if you want this brand of phone".

    DarkPrimus on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I saw a local news segment a few years back where they showed how there were 43 hidden taxes and fees on a case of beer contributing a few more cents to the price. Stuff like a 'sin tax' and stocking and a bunch of others that added some nickels and dimes to the final price.

    Oh, and the stupidest fee here in Houston is Comcast charging $25 to come out and fix your cable internet or TV connections. I'm not talking about replacing a modem - I mean coming out and fiddling with the wiring and cable lines. But wait! If you pay $3 a month on top of your bill, they'll waive that fee. That's right - we're paying a kind of insurance to protect consumers from their faulty equipment. Installing a cable also costs $100 but they don't mention that in their ads, of course.

    emnmnme on
  • 12gauge12gauge Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Some of your stories - especially the bank ones - are horrifying. How do businesses get away with this? I have an account that can go up to 500 Euros in the minus without any problems (as I don't pay any fees on a student account) and my girlfriend (not a student anymore) just blocked her card from going into the minus - the cost? 0 Euro. I am with T-Mobile here in Austria. I pay exactly 25 Euros a month to call any other person with an austrian phone number, no matter if landline, same provider or other provider, and no matter how long - no hidden fees.
    Hell, they even start requiring the cheap airline companies to quote complete prices in advertisements soon - right now the prices can still be something ridiculous like 0.01 Euro (with taxes and airport payment you end up paying around 30 anyway).
    How can you people accept being fucked over by banks that hard?

    12gauge on
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  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited February 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    The solution isn't to try to regulate fees; the solution is to regulate how they're allowed to advertise their prices. This "$49.99 a month" then having $20 thrown on top of that in fees is fucking ridiculous. Their should be a law that your final bill isn't allowed to be more than what they advertise plus a la carte services.
    You said what I came here to say.

    Elki on
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  • hoodie13hoodie13 punch bro Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Fun story.

    Girlfriend knew she was going to be overdrafted, so she put money into her account on a Sunday online to avoid this. Online, as she was told by a CSR, meant that the money would instantly be there, just wouldn't be posted. The CSR even said the money she'd just put in was there. As an arbitrary number, let's say she had 20 in there, put 50 in, and then spent 40. This isn't far from the truth, it was a small number like this. So, if she HADN'T put the money in, she would definitely have been overdrawn 20 dollars.

    So she goes and spends the money, but the 40 was spent about 5 different ways. And at Compass Bank, the overdraft fee is $37, for each and every transaction that goes over. And no, they don't just take the extra money out of your credit card or savings account if you have one and say "it's ok, try not to do it again," they just take the money from your checking. And then ream you some more by charging you 5-7 dollars every day it sits in the bank, not being fixed.

    So on Thursday she checks her account and she's completely in the red, by about 2-300 dollars. She panics, calls customer service, who tell her that hey, that CSR she talked to the other day was wrong-o, the money didn't even touch her account until Tuesday, and she still has to pay. Her entire savings account later (400 dollars worth), she's finally in the black, crying her eyes out on my bed, and the next day Wachovia had a new customer.

    edit: page dedicated to Compass Bank and its suckage.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Podly wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Here's what happened to me a few days ago. I'm a poor college student, and it was a day before pay day, which means I had VERY little money in my checkings account. How little? $4.40. Yep. Well I hadn't eaten all day, and I needed some protein because I hadn't had meat in a few days and the fridge was empty. I got some chicken and peppers for like $4.30. I didn't overdraft. However, Bank of America has "keep the change," so they rounded up and fucked me over $35. Luckily I've never overdrafted before and I was able to get them to overturn it after twenty minutes or so, but this is the kind of stuff that Banks do to make sure that they make money -- a lot of programs that look helpful, but actually are harmful to the consumer.

    Here's what Washington Mutual would do to me all the time when I was doing a lot of consulting and didn't have a full-time job:

    Monday: Check balance: $100. Deposit personal check from client, $200.
    Tuesday: Check balance online. $100. Client check hasn't come through yet. I buy dinner for $20 and gas for $50.
    Wednesday: Check balance online. $100. No transactions from the last three days have been posted yet. Buy dinner for $20.
    Thursday: Check balance online. $300. Deposit from Monday has been posted, but no withdrawals have been posted yet. I buy groceries totaling $190.
    Friday: Check balance online. Negative one hundred dollars. The deposit that was posted on Thursday is now listed as being posted on Friday despite showing up the day before. All withdrawals are posted in the following order: $190, $50, $20, $20, and all are posted with Thursday's date. Overdraft fees on all four transactions.

    I don't see how that was remotely possible without human intervention.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

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  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Also, Thanatos is right and we should make him king of the world just so he can pass that law and then overthrow him before he passes a second law banning pants.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ÆthelredÆthelred Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Banks in the US are awful in general. Here's two stories from the UK:

    At the moment, there's a huge court case going down against the banks on cheque-bouncing. The fee the customer is charged for this 'inconvenience' to the bank is only supposed to cover the actual cost to the bank of checking the too-much amount against your account balance and rejecting the cheque. However, at the moment they've been charging ridiculous amounts like £30, which clearly isn't what it's cost them. Proper estimates (i.e., working out how long it would take a low-paying clerk) put the price at a fraction of that.

    Also, very recently, Ryanair were ordered to make their flight-price advertising more in line with the actual price the flight costs after you add in taxes etc. They were advertising "1p to Amsterdam!" and the like, which, needless to say, ended up more like £60 with surcharges totalled up.

    Æthelred on
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  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    hoodie13 wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Fun story.

    Girlfriend knew she was going to be overdrafted, so she put money into her account on a Sunday online to avoid this. Online, as she was told by a CSR, meant that the money would instantly be there, just wouldn't be posted. The CSR even said the money she'd just put in was there. As an arbitrary number, let's say she had 20 in there, put 50 in, and then spent 40. This isn't far from the truth, it was a small number like this. So, if she HADN'T put the money in, she would definitely have been overdrawn 20 dollars.

    So she goes and spends the money, but the 40 was spent about 5 different ways. And at Compass Bank, the overdraft fee is $37, for each and every transaction that goes over. And no, they don't just take the extra money out of your credit card or savings account if you have one and say "it's ok, try not to do it again," they just take the money from your checking. And then ream you some more by charging you 5-7 dollars every day it sits in the bank, not being fixed.

    So on Thursday she checks her account and she's completely in the red, by about 2-300 dollars. She panics, calls customer service, who tell her that hey, that CSR she talked to the other day was wrong-o, the money didn't even touch her account until Tuesday, and she still has to pay. Her entire savings account later (400 dollars worth), she's finally in the black, crying her eyes out on my bed, and the next day Wachovia had a new customer.

    edit: page dedicated to Compass Bank and its suckage.

    In that situation, unless they automatically take the money out of your savings account (which if they can do, there shouldn't be overdraft fees at all) I would take my business elsewhere and let my balance stay at -2300 or whatever the hell kind of insane amount they want to charge.

    I once had Commerce Bank dock a 1000 dollars for an overdraft I incurred when I went to Canada. I overdrafted by about 50 bucks in total, but it all came as double ATM fees, both for being foreign (the 1-2 dollars you agree to in just about any ATM) and for literally being out of the US (a hidden 11 cent charge per withdrawal.)

    So let's say that during the trip I used the ATM 14 times, in small withdrawals. 14 times 2 is 28, times 35 is 980. Just in overdraft fees.

    I went and told them I thought it was ridiculous that they just post all those 11 cent charges at once, (they all came in around a day after I got back) and that in general, I was willing to wager most banks wouldn't make me pay 1000 for something like that. They ended up only charging me 50 on top of the amount I overdrafted, which ended up being around 60. 110 in total.

    I think that banks are perfectly capable of setting up accounts that don't have delayed debits though. Before coming to the US, I'd never had a bank that even let me overdraft with a debit card or checking account. When you're at zero, it's zero, and debits go through pretty much instantaneously. Of course, why pay to update your shitty infrastructure when having it that way not only saves but earns money...

    Sam on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    hoodie13 wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Fun story.

    Girlfriend knew she was going to be overdrafted, so she put money into her account on a Sunday online to avoid this. Online, as she was told by a CSR, meant that the money would instantly be there, just wouldn't be posted. The CSR even said the money she'd just put in was there. As an arbitrary number, let's say she had 20 in there, put 50 in, and then spent 40. This isn't far from the truth, it was a small number like this. So, if she HADN'T put the money in, she would definitely have been overdrawn 20 dollars.

    So she goes and spends the money, but the 40 was spent about 5 different ways. And at Compass Bank, the overdraft fee is $37, for each and every transaction that goes over. And no, they don't just take the extra money out of your credit card or savings account if you have one and say "it's ok, try not to do it again," they just take the money from your checking. And then ream you some more by charging you 5-7 dollars every day it sits in the bank, not being fixed.

    So on Thursday she checks her account and she's completely in the red, by about 2-300 dollars. She panics, calls customer service, who tell her that hey, that CSR she talked to the other day was wrong-o, the money didn't even touch her account until Tuesday, and she still has to pay. Her entire savings account later (400 dollars worth), she's finally in the black, crying her eyes out on my bed, and the next day Wachovia had a new customer.

    edit: page dedicated to Compass Bank and its suckage.

    In that situation, unless they automatically take the money out of your savings account (which if they can do, there shouldn't be overdraft fees at all) I would take my business elsewhere and let my balance stay at -2300 or whatever the hell kind of insane amount they want to charge.



    Then you get to deal with the wonderful world of credit reports and collection agencies.


    The best way to deal with banks is to put most or all your money in one bank (This doesn't work for college students and the like, you need a significant amount of money in CDs and such or so for it to work.) Then whenever anyone does something like charges you overdraft fees, just call the manager and tell them you wish to withdraw all of your money, and explain exactly why. (Make sure to mention exactly what caused it, and make sure the bank doesn't have some insane early withdrawal fee, but for the most part it's only 90 days interest to withdraw a CD which is trivial on a 5 or 10 year CD)

    99% of the time they'll apologize and fix whatever you complained about rather than letting you walk. Especially if you have a significant amount of money (say on the order of $25,000+) in the bank.

    Jealous Deva on
  • HappylilElfHappylilElf Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    hoodie13 wrote: »
    YodaTuna wrote: »
    whitey9 wrote: »
    My bank made more money on the sneaky bastard overdraft fees last year than all of their other moneymaking ventures combined.

    I don't see any problems with overdraft fees. I always take the approach of "Know how much money you have and don't spend more than that." I never feel sorry for people with overdraft fees.

    Fun story.

    Girlfriend knew she was going to be overdrafted, so she put money into her account on a Sunday online to avoid this. Online, as she was told by a CSR, meant that the money would instantly be there, just wouldn't be posted. The CSR even said the money she'd just put in was there. As an arbitrary number, let's say she had 20 in there, put 50 in, and then spent 40. This isn't far from the truth, it was a small number like this. So, if she HADN'T put the money in, she would definitely have been overdrawn 20 dollars.

    So she goes and spends the money, but the 40 was spent about 5 different ways. And at Compass Bank, the overdraft fee is $37, for each and every transaction that goes over. And no, they don't just take the extra money out of your credit card or savings account if you have one and say "it's ok, try not to do it again," they just take the money from your checking. And then ream you some more by charging you 5-7 dollars every day it sits in the bank, not being fixed.

    So on Thursday she checks her account and she's completely in the red, by about 2-300 dollars. She panics, calls customer service, who tell her that hey, that CSR she talked to the other day was wrong-o, the money didn't even touch her account until Tuesday, and she still has to pay. Her entire savings account later (400 dollars worth), she's finally in the black, crying her eyes out on my bed, and the next day Wachovia had a new customer.

    edit: page dedicated to Compass Bank and its suckage.

    In that situation, unless they automatically take the money out of your savings account (which if they can do, there shouldn't be overdraft fees at all) I would take my business elsewhere and let my balance stay at -2300 or whatever the hell kind of insane amount they want to charge.

    I actually tried that route after being fed up with the fee structure my bank adopted after being bought out. It's a long story but it doesn't work and you end up paying money to collection agencies.

    HappylilElf on
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
    especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?

    Sam on
  • ShintoShinto __BANNED USERS regular
    edited February 2008
    Ralph Nader 2008!

    Or something!

    Shinto on
  • Jealous DevaJealous Deva Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Sam wrote: »
    they send collection agencies for amounts under $1000?
    especially if the actualy overdrafted amount that the bank actually lost is often not even half that of the total amount owed?


    At the very least they'll put a flag on your credit report and you'll have a very hard time getting anyone to loan you money until you pay it off.

    Jealous Deva on
  • Dulcius_ex_asperisDulcius_ex_asperis Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I just love that Cingular/AT&T happens to 'accidentally' charge our family plan twice in one month as they did in December (my mom just paid it without questioning it), and -- this is my favorite...We resigned with them for another two years in August, and our plans were supposed to be the same (just my mom and I on the plan, pretty basic, we're paying and extra $10/month for 1000 texts for me, otherwise nothing extra). Come October, for some reason, they changed the plan without consulting us or telling us. My mom never bothers to itemize the bill until last month, when she's finally like, "why the hell is this $60 higher than usual?" which leads her to call Cingular/AT&T, then to call me, saying "why did you use 800 texts when you only have 200?" (since she doesn't use them she forgot how many we are supposed to be paying for). Texts are, of course, $0.10/each, meaning the 600 I used charged up to $60. I end up having to call Cingular/AT&T and tell them basically that they can't just conveniently fuck us over because of a 'glitch' that just happens to benefit them, and we sure as hell better get credit to our account.

    Coupla clicks later, done. "Sorry, ma'am, you now have a balance of -$35". But wait...who the hell changed the plan in the first place?

    This has happened before, too. Damnit, why are we still with them?

    Dulcius_ex_asperis on
  • FloofyFloofy Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I haven't experienced the massive fees etc, but my bank is very well schooled in Dickery.

    I have a student bank account with the Co-operative bank. It's meant to have a big, interest-free overdraft available. In the first year I run up a bit of overdraft, so this year I'm more careful with my money, saving up in my other bank account until I can pay the debt off. Which I do. I go in to check my balance and see that my money's gone in and am told I now have a Current Account and have been charged interest for my previous overdraft.

    Surely there's something legally prohibiting banks changing their service without telling you? What if my ISA turned into a current account overnight? It's total bullshit and it really annoys me. The Cooperative have pulled this stunt a few other times previous to the above incident, claiming at the start of a new school year that I'd finished my course, and also fucking up when I OPENED the account and giving me some sort of hideous "Premium" account that had the same possible overdraft, but was designed to rape you anally with interest charges.

    All in all they lose out though, because when the current issue is settled, I'll just quietly move my business to a different bank.

    Floofy on
  • NarianNarian Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    ScotiaBank has been pretty good to me here in Canada. No complaints... yet.

    Narian on
    Narian.gif
  • SamSam Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    I once had a money order for 800 debited twice. That was fucking scary. I called (it was the middle of the night) and they said they'd post a "note" on my account about it. It was back the next morning, but that's some fucking bullshit. I was told that if it didn't automatically resolve, I'd have to return to the branch where I made the money order. that would've sucked because I have no car and only went there because it was near where I have to pay my rent.

    Sam on
  • SanderJKSanderJK Crocodylus Pontifex Sinterklasicus Madrid, 3000 ADRegistered User regular
    edited February 2008
    Man, US overdraft fees are nuts. I pay 7.2% annual (student discount, normal is 14.6%) on overdraft.

    SanderJK on
    Steam: SanderJK Origin: SanderJK
  • DakalDakal Registered User regular
    edited February 2008
    there is a class action lawsuit against Bell Canada for unnessesary charged downloaded onto the users. For example, $5 connection fees when your house is already connected to the system and all they have to do is assign your location a new number.

    It could create a precedent for these kinds of cases.

    Dakal on
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