It's even more of a pain in the ass to be that go-to guy for hardware installs. I get calls all the time asking what video card is better than X. "What do you mean the 6800 is better?! That's bullshit, the numbers are higher!"
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
the manufacturers aren't really helping either. I got a 8400GS (on purpose mind you, I know it is a piece of shit, was just a cheap replacement for my home computer) that all over the box in big letters stating: "DIRECTX 10 CAPABLE" etc. Yeah... it barely can run games better than my (now) ancient 6800GT (on a much more powerful system too) so saying it is "capable" is not technically wrong, but it is hugely misleading since the games will run like shit anyway.
"DX10 capable" in the same way that most PC's were "Vista capable" when Vista was released. When they continue to play around with semantics and terminology like that, it's no wonder buying a good PC is viewed as a confusing experience. I mean, I'd say buying a car is more complex in what you need to know and look out for, but most people seem to manage that just fine.
You never see a see a car labelled "Diesel Capable!" becuase you can fill it up with Diesel and then get out and push it.
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
the manufacturers aren't really helping either. I got a 8400GS (on purpose mind you, I know it is a piece of shit, was just a cheap replacement for my home computer) that all over the box in big letters stating: "DIRECTX 10 CAPABLE" etc. Yeah... it barely can run games better than my (now) ancient 6800GT (on a much more powerful system too) so saying it is "capable" is not technically wrong, but it is hugely misleading since the games will run like shit anyway.
"DX10 capable" in the same way that most PC's were "Vista capable" when Vista was released. When they continue to play around with semantics and terminology like that, it's no wonder buying a good PC is viewed as a confusing experience. I mean, I'd say buying a car is more complex in what you need to know and look out for, but most people seem to manage that just fine.
You never see a see a car labelled "Diesel Capable!" becuase you can fill it up with Diesel and then get out and push it.
maybe you've heard, but there is actually a lawsuit going on over the "vista capable" stuff.
My current computer was self-built, and its the only computer I've ever had that didn't have major problems of some kind. PC makers deserve getting that sort of shit.
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
Ugh. I know what you mean.
I miss Voodoo
Or how about a 8800GT vs. 8800GTS vs. 8800GTX vs. 8800GS...
Rakai on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]XBL: Rakayn | PS3: Rakayn | Steam ID
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
the manufacturers aren't really helping either. I got a 8400GS (on purpose mind you, I know it is a piece of shit, was just a cheap replacement for my home computer) that all over the box in big letters stating: "DIRECTX 10 CAPABLE" etc. Yeah... it barely can run games better than my (now) ancient 6800GT (on a much more powerful system too) so saying it is "capable" is not technically wrong, but it is hugely misleading since the games will run like shit anyway.
"DX10 capable" in the same way that most PC's were "Vista capable" when Vista was released. When they continue to play around with semantics and terminology like that, it's no wonder buying a good PC is viewed as a confusing experience. I mean, I'd say buying a car is more complex in what you need to know and look out for, but most people seem to manage that just fine.
You never see a see a car labelled "Diesel Capable!" becuase you can fill it up with Diesel and then get out and push it.
maybe you've heard, but there is actually a lawsuit going on over the "vista capable" stuff.
Yeah, I heard about that on slashdot.
I actually like Vista, but the marketing behind it was just wrong. And whilst I can say I'd like for this to teach MS not to be so ridiculous in how they push their OS's, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
Ugh. I know what you mean.
I miss Voodoo
Or how about a 8800GT vs. 8800GTS vs. 8800GTX vs. 8800GS...
There is nothing worse. ESPECIALLY if they have no idea the good/bad of PCI-E/AGP/PCI.
My current computer was self-built, and its the only computer I've ever had that didn't have major problems of some kind. PC makers deserve getting that sort of shit.
Well what can you say? They skimp on all the components and then cram crapware onto them. These days if you can't build a machine yourself and you need reliability, you really are better off just getting a Mac.
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
Yeah I'm a little pissed off at the PC hardware situation that's going on around here. Like he said, there are thousands of video cards/sound cards that a game has to cater to now. If we could have some sort of standardization when it comes to video cards, it would make it a little easier.
Heck, I would appreciate standardisation in just the naming conventions. How exactly is the average person supposed to know that a GeForce 7200 performs worse than a GeForce 6800?
Ugh. I know what you mean.
I miss Voodoo
Or how about a 8800GT vs. 8800GTS vs. 8800GTX vs. 8800GS...
There is nothing worse. ESPECIALLY if they have no idea the good/bad of PCI-E/AGP/PCI.
Oh Lord. I remember having to explain all of that bullshit to my brother a couple of months ago.
Can we just go back to having the bigger numbers be better?
surprised no one else talking about how he also blames integrated video and audio as well as people getting the cheapest stuff and thinking they can run with max settings. These points were spot on and will always be a problem until integrated crap is much much improved.
I understand its a problem for PC Devs in general. But I honestly can't see Titan Quest running on integrated video. It runs worse than Oblivion on my PC.
It probably does but you get <10 frames. It is a problem for devs in general, since they haven't been improved in years. Like I have said in other threads, integrated video that comes with PCs (the intel garbage) can't even run Quake3 very well on default settings, a game from 1999. That is just unacceptable. Now imagine all these people buying pre-built brand name computers which most come with this shit and people trying to play games released in the present, not gonna happen.
Actually, I'm running a Compaq store-bought computer, one of the cheap ones they had 2 years ago. Nothing fancy, just a 3400+ processor, 1.5 gb RAM, and integrated gfx card (I threw in a 8600GT a month or so ago). The integrated graphics were actually able to run Oblivion on low settings and stuff like Half-Life 2, Dark Crusade, and Call of Duty 2 on medium-high. Granted, there was no AA/AF or HDR/bloom, but overall it wasn't that bad. I have no experience with the Intel integrated stuff, though, which from what I've heard are uniformly shitty. AMD's stuff might be different.
Working in retail at the time of this was rough. At first I would actually go into detail, but after explaining it about 100 times, I just eventually went with: "PCI-Express is faster. Get that one." Saved a lot of time.
I have a proposal on how to explain the numbering conventions that NVidia uses.
First rule: If CardA + 700 <= Card B, then CardA < CardB, else CardA > CardB.
Second rule: The more letters following the number, and the lower the letter of the alphabet, the more powerful it is. GS < GT< GTS < GTX.
For example, take a 7900 GT. It is superior to everything in the 8000 series until it hits the 8600GT, where it's roughly similar, but lacks the DX10 support. 7900 + 700 = 8600, which is where it starts to lose.
Another example: take the 7900 GT again, but this time add only 200, making it a 8100 card. Higher numbers mean better for normal folks, but according to this equation (which I just pulled out of my ass) the 7900 is better than the 8100, which we all know to be true.
What about the 6600GT, that would make it 7300, which is a pretty bad card.
It's a general rule. :P
Plus, I skipped from a Riva TNT to AMD integrated GFX to an 8600GT, so I might've skipped some things here and there.
Yeah, you see I think it would hurt my brain less to just memorise the sequence. Like the multiplication tables, only without any real sense and only the most vague patterns behind it.
What about the 6600GT, that would make it 7300, which is a pretty bad card.
It's a general rule. :P
Plus, I skipped from a Riva TNT to AMD integrated GFX to an 8600GT, so I might've skipped some things here and there.
Yeah, you see I think it would hurt my brain less to just memorise the sequence. Like the multiplication tables, only without any real sense and only the most vague patterns behind it.
ITT we mercilessly give back to NVIDIA what it gave to us.
I do suspect the numbers are on the high side, piracy in China for example has decreased, maybe even under 90%.
Are they really closing because of piracy? Impossible hardware configurations? (maybe this will be a hint to release games EVERYONE can play) Wasn't Titan Quest pretty demanding?
I also love how the producer said that most people are stupid, how true. How true..
What makes you say that. During GDC at least four different PC developers were talking piracy as being this huge monstrous thing. The message board community seemed to dismiss them all, Why is that? What reason do they have for lying?
Because developers use piracy as a catch-all excuse for flagging PC gaming sales. They always have. Not that long ago, Infinity Ward released some statement about the number of people playing COD4 online with pirated CD keys, and basically said "We can't tell you how many it actually is, but trust us, it's huge!"
There's really no reliable way to track the percentage of pirated copies that exist of games - the numbers are always just guessing at absolute best.
The better question is "What evidence do you have that they're lying?". Until someone presents actual numbers you can't make that claim. Meanwhile developers looking at the number of pirated copies used on servers compared to legit copies keep mentioning that the numbers are "staggering."
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Except that the person, in this case a failed developer, has everything to gain by blaming piracy for their problems. Iron Lore closed because it's games weren't good enough to get funding for more. True that the circumstances of TQ's piracy sucked, but piracy didn't stop plenty of other developers from making enough money to keep making games.
Nobody wants to admit "Hey, that game I made wasn't very good and didn't sell well because of it." when they can blame anonymous internet thievery for it.
There are plenty of successful PC developers who deal with piracy and still manage to not run their companies into the ground.
What's your excuse for Infinity Ward saying piracy numbers are huge then? They made they highest selling game of the Christmas season (on consoles). Also this isn't the developer. It's the producer who's not out of a job.
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Because it explains PC sales drops in a way that totally removes responsibility from developers or publishers. Saying "Holy crap piracy is a huge problem!!!" and in the same breath saying "But I can't tell you how huge because I mysteriously cannot release my self-found figures..." doesn't smack of highly scientific methods of study.
But without hard evidence, it's difficult to make a statement about the state of piracy, no? Developers have more information on the subject than you do, and I'm inclined to believe the guys who have the facts.
But without hard evidence, it's difficult to make a statement about the state of piracy, no? Developers have more information on the subject than you do, and I'm inclined to believe the guys who have the facts.
That's kind of the exact same thing that I'm saying. Nobody releases "hard evidence" on the state of piracy. Nobody can, because even if you have exact numbers across the various methods of pirating a game, you still have literally no idea how much it affects sales. Holding it responsible for all of the problems with PC gaming sales is irresponsible at best, scape-goating at worst.
He didn't blame piracy for the poor sales. He blamed poor word-of-mouth... because pirates were online bitching about the sneaky copy protection dumping them out of the game.
He didn't blame piracy for the poor sales. He blamed poor word-of-mouth... because pirates were online bitching about the sneaky copy protection dumping them out of the game.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
edited March 2008
I'm all for Hardware DRM that releases thermite onto your computer if it detects pirated software.
They really should have seen that coming. Hindsight and all, but damn. That was stupid.
Like others in the thread, I blame the lack of great success of Titan Quest to no Closed Server Multiplayer. It needed it, and then you can't really bitch about piracy if it's a main part of your game.
This coupled with the no-return policy on software makes for a very difficult market. Players have to know the game is good and runs well on most systems before they can feel safe buying it. You can't chance it, because you can't return it. That's wrong. Obviously you can steal a game just as easily without the original disc these days, so what's the point really?
[edit] Also I had to crack several of my pc games that I bought legitimately in order to get them to run. I wouldn't even know how to pirate games if it weren't for DRM. Talk about self-defeating.
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And then having to explain it all is real fun.
"DX10 capable" in the same way that most PC's were "Vista capable" when Vista was released. When they continue to play around with semantics and terminology like that, it's no wonder buying a good PC is viewed as a confusing experience. I mean, I'd say buying a car is more complex in what you need to know and look out for, but most people seem to manage that just fine.
You never see a see a car labelled "Diesel Capable!" becuase you can fill it up with Diesel and then get out and push it.
maybe you've heard, but there is actually a lawsuit going on over the "vista capable" stuff.
Or how about a 8800GT vs. 8800GTS vs. 8800GTX vs. 8800GS...
Yeah, I heard about that on slashdot.
I actually like Vista, but the marketing behind it was just wrong. And whilst I can say I'd like for this to teach MS not to be so ridiculous in how they push their OS's, I don't think that's going to happen any time soon.
There is nothing worse. ESPECIALLY if they have no idea the good/bad of PCI-E/AGP/PCI.
Well what can you say? They skimp on all the components and then cram crapware onto them. These days if you can't build a machine yourself and you need reliability, you really are better off just getting a Mac.
Oh Lord. I remember having to explain all of that bullshit to my brother a couple of months ago.
Can we just go back to having the bigger numbers be better?
Actually, I'm running a Compaq store-bought computer, one of the cheap ones they had 2 years ago. Nothing fancy, just a 3400+ processor, 1.5 gb RAM, and integrated gfx card (I threw in a 8600GT a month or so ago). The integrated graphics were actually able to run Oblivion on low settings and stuff like Half-Life 2, Dark Crusade, and Call of Duty 2 on medium-high. Granted, there was no AA/AF or HDR/bloom, but overall it wasn't that bad. I have no experience with the Intel integrated stuff, though, which from what I've heard are uniformly shitty. AMD's stuff might be different.
"What's the difference between PCI Express and AGP?"
Krunky's head blows the fuck up at that point.
That's exactly how I explained it to my brother.
It's the official "tl;dr" of PCI-E vs AGP explanation.
First rule: If CardA + 700 <= Card B, then CardA < CardB, else CardA > CardB.
Second rule: The more letters following the number, and the lower the letter of the alphabet, the more powerful it is. GS < GT< GTS < GTX.
For example, take a 7900 GT. It is superior to everything in the 8000 series until it hits the 8600GT, where it's roughly similar, but lacks the DX10 support. 7900 + 700 = 8600, which is where it starts to lose.
Another example: take the 7900 GT again, but this time add only 200, making it a 8100 card. Higher numbers mean better for normal folks, but according to this equation (which I just pulled out of my ass) the 7900 is better than the 8100, which we all know to be true.
I am a mathematical genius.
It's a general rule. :P
Plus, I skipped from a Riva TNT to AMD integrated GFX to an 8600GT, so I might've skipped some things here and there.
Yeah, you see I think it would hurt my brain less to just memorise the sequence. Like the multiplication tables, only without any real sense and only the most vague patterns behind it.
ITT we mercilessly give back to NVIDIA what it gave to us.
That formula was pretty solid though.
Tofu wrote: Here be Littleboots, destroyer of threads and master of drunkposting.
I am appalled that PC piracy might be 70-80%.
I do suspect the numbers are on the high side, piracy in China for example has decreased, maybe even under 90%.
Are they really closing because of piracy? Impossible hardware configurations? (maybe this will be a hint to release games EVERYONE can play) Wasn't Titan Quest pretty demanding?
I also love how the producer said that most people are stupid, how true. How true..
Anyone who says PC piracy is that high is lying.
What makes you say that. During GDC at least four different PC developers were talking piracy as being this huge monstrous thing. The message board community seemed to dismiss them all, Why is that? What reason do they have for lying?
There's really no reliable way to track the percentage of pirated copies that exist of games - the numbers are always just guessing at absolute best.
That's why I don't think they are lying.
Nobody wants to admit "Hey, that game I made wasn't very good and didn't sell well because of it." when they can blame anonymous internet thievery for it.
There are plenty of successful PC developers who deal with piracy and still manage to not run their companies into the ground.
I suppose you could easily substitute "commercially viable" for "good".
That's kind of the exact same thing that I'm saying. Nobody releases "hard evidence" on the state of piracy. Nobody can, because even if you have exact numbers across the various methods of pirating a game, you still have literally no idea how much it affects sales. Holding it responsible for all of the problems with PC gaming sales is irresponsible at best, scape-goating at worst.
Like others in the thread, I blame the lack of great success of Titan Quest to no Closed Server Multiplayer. It needed it, and then you can't really bitch about piracy if it's a main part of your game.
This coupled with the no-return policy on software makes for a very difficult market. Players have to know the game is good and runs well on most systems before they can feel safe buying it. You can't chance it, because you can't return it. That's wrong. Obviously you can steal a game just as easily without the original disc these days, so what's the point really?
[edit] Also I had to crack several of my pc games that I bought legitimately in order to get them to run. I wouldn't even know how to pirate games if it weren't for DRM. Talk about self-defeating.