Edit: I'd have to hear some pretty convincing arguments regarding anything as the "highest form" of sex (or of anything, really). What makes it penultimate? It can feel more intimate to some people, less or least intimate to others (for example, I find gentle kissing far more intimate than sex).
I think this needs to be stressed more in this thread, inline with my other comments.
Well, would you (thread goers) be more upset if your significant other kissed someone else or had penetrative sex with them?
Definitely the kissing, but that's because you phrased it as "penetrative sex" - I mean what the fuck is that really? The term pretty much nukes any sort of feeling or emotion from the thing.
Well, I wouldn't like either one and, depending on the circumstances, both would be a deal-breaker, but I think I'd find kissing more hurtful, granted that my SO felt the same way about it as I did. Sex, in that situation, may very well have just been carnal urges, but kissing implies, to me, something more romantic.
Edit: I'd have to hear some pretty convincing arguments regarding anything as the "highest form" of sex (or of anything, really). What makes it penultimate? It can feel more intimate to some people, less or least intimate to others (for example, I find gentle kissing far more intimate than sex).
I think this needs to be stressed more in this thread, inline with my other comments.
Well, would you (thread goers) be more upset if your significant other kissed someone else or had penetrative sex with them?
Definitely the kissing, but that's because you phrased it as "penetrative sex" - I mean what the fuck is that really? The term pretty much nukes any sort of feeling or emotion from the thing.
I think my question would be, where does "gentle sex" fall on that continuum?
If Trowizilla did not intend to suggest that coital sex is common principally because women's pleasure is subordinated to men's, I would be fascinated to know what she did mean. For myself, I just don't see any other way of reading the sentence I quoted. But you have an alternative interpretation, so let's hear it.
It's common because it's pleasurable for men and often at least somewhat pleasurable for women. That's not a bad thing. However, seeing it as the main focus of sex is pretty clearly because women's pleasure is and has been downplayed or discouraged entirely. Missionary position is called "missionary" because it allows intercourse with as little stimulation to the woman's erogenous regions as possible, and because other sexual positions were considered animalistic or "lustful."
The Hite Report — which is, in a large part, responsible for bringing awareness to the issue of women and penetration — stated that 70% of women do not orgasm during vaginal penetration. The wiki article on Shere Hite provide a decent overview, as well as some of the criticism of her methodology.
However, despite this criticism, most studies give numbers of between 50 and 75% for women who cannot orgasm from penetration alone. The female body simply isn't designed for simple in-and-out PIV sex in most common positions to bring us to orgasm. It's not a criticism of men, it's asking for acknowledgement that what feels best to a penis does not necessarily feel the best to a vulva and vagina.
I haven't been able to find any similar studies either confirming or refuting those results, or even what the criticisms of her methodology were. Given the enormity of the claim I think it's fair to ask for some more evidence.
If you'd bothered, a simple google search would net you plenty of results. There's a study in Biology Letters researching genetics as related to female orgasms, but alas, I don't have JSTOR. Honestly, you're being really defensive; nobody is saying you suck at sex or that the women you have sex with are mutants, but anatomically, orgasms purely from penetration are not very likely for most women.
Seriously, people, go to the link in my signature.
Adrien, many women (I'm not sure about the percentages) can not get off on penetration alone (that is, no stimulation of the clitoris or other erogenous zones by the male's pelvic bone, hands, etc). There are no nerve endings past the first two inches of the vaginal opening, and while there is certainly some sensation for some women (perhaps a feeling of "fullness") that could contribute to orgasm for another some women, it is often not pleasurable enough to cause orgasm.
And of course, I understand that. I simply question that that is most women, more or less for the sole reason that it doesn't mesh with my experience.
Connecting to that, I'd have to file "no other stimulation of erogenous zones" under "you're doing it wrong". I wouldn't blame someone for not getting off on being poled like a riverboat— that's not what sex is.
And the things beside "being poled like a riverboat" are the things people who claim that PIV (or Poled Like Riverboat) is the main focus of sex are discounting. If you're rubbing the girl's clit while you're penetrating her, she's more likely to get off, obviously.
Trowizilla on
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If Trowizilla did not intend to suggest that coital sex is common principally because women's pleasure is subordinated to men's, I would be fascinated to know what she did mean. For myself, I just don't see any other way of reading the sentence I quoted. But you have an alternative interpretation, so let's hear it.
It's common because it's pleasurable for men and often at least somewhat pleasurable for women. That's not a bad thing. However, seeing it as the main focus of sex is pretty clearly because women's pleasure is and has been downplayed or discouraged entirely. Missionary position is called "missionary" because it allows intercourse with as little stimulation to the woman's erogenous regions as possible, and because other sexual positions were considered animalistic or "lustful."
That makes sense given how much religions hated (and many still do hate) women enjoying sex or being anything other than property for a man.
I find the g spot to be, if it is some kind of sex myth, incredibly useful fiction.
Useful in order to convince women to allow you to penetrate them with your enormous penis? Or for some other reason?
Nah, I think i read somewhere a long fucking time ago where the g-spot was supposed to be, and I've been abusing the knowledge it ever since.
It has been invariably successful with essentially the same results every time. Granted, my sample size isn't overwhelming, but positive feedback compels me to stick with the plan.
I find the g spot to be, if it is some kind of sex myth, incredibly useful fiction.
Useful in order to convince women to allow you to penetrate them with your enormous penis? Or for some other reason?
Nah, I think i read somewhere a long fucking time ago where the g-spot was supposed to be, and I've been abusing the knowledge it ever since.
It has been invariably successful with essentially the same results every time. Granted, my sample size isn't overwhelming, but positive feedback compels me to stick with the plan.
Don't fix what ain't broke. Makes perfect sense.
themightypuck on
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
I find the g spot to be, if it is some kind of sex myth, incredibly useful fiction.
Useful in order to convince women to allow you to penetrate them with your enormous penis? Or for some other reason?
Nah, I think i read somewhere a long fucking time ago where the g-spot was supposed to be, and I've been abusing the knowledge it ever since.
It has been invariably successful with essentially the same results every time. Granted, my sample size isn't overwhelming, but positive feedback compels me to stick with the plan.
Don't fix what ain't broke. Makes perfect sense.
There is of course the chance that though it doesn't exist, the methods intended to stimulate it are still extremely pleasurable.
If I thought eating food increased my Electanic Charge and thus allowed my capacitors to function, it wouldn't stop it from keeping me alive.
I find the g spot to be, if it is some kind of sex myth, incredibly useful fiction.
Considering that it is entirely possible for the posterior of the clitoris to press against the inside of the vagina wall depending on the idiosyncratic anatomy of the particular person involved, I don't think it's a myth. It may not be terribly common, but it's not necessarily a myth.
Feral on
every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
It centers on the notion of the signifier and French feminism a la simone de bouvier. Sex is a symbolic act in which the man is the signifier, the phallic symbol.
That's nice, I'm glad you enjoy the whole "femininity on a pedastal" thing. There's no reason to think of sex as a sublime act or some sort of mystical "man as active, female as passive" thing, since a) that's not how sex works for many, many, many people, and b) for a vast number of women, the phallus is not something that's going to get them off. The numbers vary, but I've seen 7% as the percentage of women who can regularly get off through penetration. For possibly the majority of women, tongues and fingers are far more important than penises, and tongues and fingers are pretty gender-neutral.
spanwed 6 pages of bickering. The penis isn't the end-all-be-all of female pleasure. Oh noes.
I'd blame Poldly if I didn't want to blame the rest of you.
It centers on the notion of the signifier and French feminism a la simone de bouvier. Sex is a symbolic act in which the man is the signifier, the phallic symbol.
That's nice, I'm glad you enjoy the whole "femininity on a pedastal" thing. There's no reason to think of sex as a sublime act or some sort of mystical "man as active, female as passive" thing, since a) that's not how sex works for many, many, many people, and b) for a vast number of women, the phallus is not something that's going to get them off. The numbers vary, but I've seen 7% as the percentage of women who can regularly get off through penetration. For possibly the majority of women, tongues and fingers are far more important than penises, and tongues and fingers are pretty gender-neutral.
spanwed 6 pages of bickering. The penis isn't the end-all-be-all of female pleasure. Oh noes.
I'd blame Poldly if I didn't want to blame the rest of you.
My penis is your ha penis.
themightypuck on
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears.”
― Marcus Aurelius
P/V sex being considered standard rather than just one of many options is mostly due to Victorian bullshit where sex wasn't to be enjoyed.
Hrmmm.. isn't the g-spot the most intense orgasm for most women? I would just say that it's more a matter of men and women not knowing their bodies.
Thanks to the wonders of modern imaging tech, its well established that only a certain percentage of women even have one of those. You should probably read less Freud.
It centers on the notion of the signifier and French feminism a la simone de bouvier. Sex is a symbolic act in which the man is the signifier, the phallic symbol.
That's nice, I'm glad you enjoy the whole "femininity on a pedastal" thing. There's no reason to think of sex as a sublime act or some sort of mystical "man as active, female as passive" thing, since a) that's not how sex works for many, many, many people, and b) for a vast number of women, the phallus is not something that's going to get them off. The numbers vary, but I've seen 7% as the percentage of women who can regularly get off through penetration. For possibly the majority of women, tongues and fingers are far more important than penises, and tongues and fingers are pretty gender-neutral.
spanwed 6 pages of bickering. The penis isn't the end-all-be-all of female pleasure. Oh noes.
I'd blame Poldly if I didn't want to blame the rest of you.
Apparently a lot of guys really really want to be told that they're oppressive and bad at sex, to the point where they'll read it in where no one has said anything of the sort. I don't really get why they want this, though.
Apparently a lot of guys really really want to be told that they're oppressive and bad at sex, to the point where they'll read it in where no one has said anything of the sort. I don't really get why they want this, though.
Feeling like a victim allows for reciprocal victimization without guilt.
Apparently a lot of guys really really want to be told that they're oppressive and bad at sex, to the point where they'll read it in where no one has said anything of the sort. I don't really get why they want this, though.
Feeling like a victim allows for reciprocal victimization without guilt.
nerves and 'spongy tissue' on a spot on the upper inside of the vagina, about 2" in apparently. I don't know, don't seem to have one myself. There's some dispute about that imaging study too, because it apparently wasn't conducted on aroused women. Actually, there's a lot of dispute about the structure of the clitoris and the nerve connections down there. You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
nerves and 'spongy tissue' on a spot on the upper inside of the vagina, about 2" in apparently. I don't know, don't seem to have one myself. There's some dispute about that imaging study too, because it apparently wasn't conducted on aroused women. Actually, there's a lot of dispute about the structure of the clitoris and the nerve connections down there. You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
I'm going to install curtains so that my naughty bits can be shrouded in mystery too!
nerves and 'spongy tissue' on a spot on the upper inside of the vagina, about 2" in apparently. I don't know, don't seem to have one myself. There's some dispute about that imaging study too, because it apparently wasn't conducted on aroused women. Actually, there's a lot of dispute about the structure of the clitoris and the nerve connections down there. You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
I'm going to install curtains so that my naughty bits can be shrouded in mystery too!
Just remember to wash them every now and then to keep the ball sweat saturation down to a reasonable level.
nerves and 'spongy tissue' on a spot on the upper inside of the vagina, about 2" in apparently. I don't know, don't seem to have one myself. There's some dispute about that imaging study too, because it apparently wasn't conducted on aroused women. Actually, there's a lot of dispute about the structure of the clitoris and the nerve connections down there. You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
We all know the brain is the most important sex organ. I think it's safe to say a woman's mind is more on display than a man's mind normally is. Unless braindead people enjoy sex ... I haven't gotten around to looking around to see if they've conducted that study yet - I guess I was hoping I could get on an internet forum and use a form of informal fallacy and not be called out on it.
... Wait, what have I done.
PS no 'my dong is bigger than a brain' ... we don't care ... or do we? I don't.
You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
Not everything.
Every once in awhile I wonder "wait, that goes all the way down there?" or "What the fuck muscle is that?"
The human body is still a freaking mystery in general. I remember biology classes covering things like the lymphatic system with "We really have no fucking clue what that does."
--
Ronaldo: You really should think of the spine as well when you think of the brain.
You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
Not everything.
Every once in awhile I wonder "wait, that goes all the way down there?" or "What the fuck muscle is that?"
The human body is still a freaking mystery in general. I remember biology classes covering things like the lymphatic system with "We really have no fucking clue what that does."
--
Ronaldo: You really should think of the spine as well when you think of the brain.
You are really good at blowing
my mind. Damn this slippery slope. Then again, slippery slopes come in handy when you're in the bedroom. That is, if your house is built on a hill and you feel like getting from the top of the hill to the bottom in an amusing fashion that mostly utilizes the loss of friction from wet surfaces.
You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
Not everything.
Every once in awhile I wonder "wait, that goes all the way down there?" or "What the fuck muscle is that?"
The human body is still a freaking mystery in general. I remember biology classes covering things like the lymphatic system with "We really have no fucking clue what that does."
--
Ronaldo: You really should think of the spine as well when you think of the brain.
You are really good at blowing
my mind. Damn this slippery slope. Then again, slippery slopes come in handy when you're in the bedroom. That is, if your house is built on a hill and you feel like getting from the top of the hill to the bottom in an amusing fashion that mostly utilizes the loss of friction from wet surfaces.
...I'll have what he's having. (Seriously, Ronaldo, are you posting high?)
No, but it's 5 AM here and all my insignificant intellect can muster is the capacity to watch Smash Bros Brawl videos and procrastinate the further study of 3 exams that come by the end of this week. I've never actually even been high, unless you count the time my girlfriend silly string-ed my room as a joke and the only window in the room wasn't open and a couple of minutes later I realized I was extremely dizzy from the aerosol spray.
nerves and 'spongy tissue' on a spot on the upper inside of the vagina, about 2" in apparently. I don't know, don't seem to have one myself. There's some dispute about that imaging study too, because it apparently wasn't conducted on aroused women. Actually, there's a lot of dispute about the structure of the clitoris and the nerve connections down there. You fellers have it easy, everything's on display :P
It seems strange to me that there could be such a variation in nerve/tissue as far as female genitalia goes. I've met women who had nipples that were sensitive enough to be the center of the show, and other women that remarked that stimulating their nipples didn't even arouse them (and yet, other people tell me that getting your nipples pierced somehow heightens their sensitivity, this is - as far as my own knowledge is concerned at this point - hearsay, but I do not wish to give the notion that I know one way or the other, simply to say that I was once told such was true) so I guess I am not -that- surprised that downstairs land is equally ... varied, but I wonder if the 'tissue' existing is really on/off from person to person or if it's merely a matter of tastes/genetics/any other number of possible factors, but this is solely from a standpoint of curiosity and not to beg to differ or detract from your statements at all.
Posts
Kissed them where? :P
I've been engaging in anal sex for almost 3 years now on a more or less weekly basis. No santorum. It's not difficult.
I think my question would be, where does "gentle sex" fall on that continuum?
I mean, doesn't that pretty much include kissing?
It's common because it's pleasurable for men and often at least somewhat pleasurable for women. That's not a bad thing. However, seeing it as the main focus of sex is pretty clearly because women's pleasure is and has been downplayed or discouraged entirely. Missionary position is called "missionary" because it allows intercourse with as little stimulation to the woman's erogenous regions as possible, and because other sexual positions were considered animalistic or "lustful."
If you'd bothered, a simple google search would net you plenty of results. There's a study in Biology Letters researching genetics as related to female orgasms, but alas, I don't have JSTOR. Honestly, you're being really defensive; nobody is saying you suck at sex or that the women you have sex with are mutants, but anatomically, orgasms purely from penetration are not very likely for most women.
And the things beside "being poled like a riverboat" are the things people who claim that PIV (or Poled Like Riverboat) is the main focus of sex are discounting. If you're rubbing the girl's clit while you're penetrating her, she's more likely to get off, obviously.
That makes sense given how much religions hated (and many still do hate) women enjoying sex or being anything other than property for a man.
Useful in order to convince women to allow you to penetrate them with your enormous penis? Or for some other reason?
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Nah, I think i read somewhere a long fucking time ago where the g-spot was supposed to be, and I've been abusing the knowledge it ever since.
It has been invariably successful with essentially the same results every time. Granted, my sample size isn't overwhelming, but positive feedback compels me to stick with the plan.
Don't fix what ain't broke. Makes perfect sense.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
There is of course the chance that though it doesn't exist, the methods intended to stimulate it are still extremely pleasurable.
If I thought eating food increased my Electanic Charge and thus allowed my capacitors to function, it wouldn't stop it from keeping me alive.
Oh baby.
Considering that it is entirely possible for the posterior of the clitoris to press against the inside of the vagina wall depending on the idiosyncratic anatomy of the particular person involved, I don't think it's a myth. It may not be terribly common, but it's not necessarily a myth.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Well, BLAAARRRGHHHHH is a pretty big topic.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
One too many Hs and one too few Gs.
I think you are getting a little off-topic.
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
spanwed 6 pages of bickering. The penis isn't the end-all-be-all of female pleasure. Oh noes.
I'd blame Poldly if I didn't want to blame the rest of you.
Damn you high functioning autistics.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
My penis is your ha penis.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Podly is not a man of science. But he is a man.
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Apparently a lot of guys really really want to be told that they're oppressive and bad at sex, to the point where they'll read it in where no one has said anything of the sort. I don't really get why they want this, though.
Feeling like a victim allows for reciprocal victimization without guilt.
That's actually a pretty scary thought.
Men have the enviable trait of having an accessable and available g spot in the prostate I guess.
Essentially an extention of the clitoral tissue on the inside. Sometimes it extends that far sometimes not. Or at least that's my understanding.
I'm going to install curtains so that my naughty bits can be shrouded in mystery too!
Just remember to wash them every now and then to keep the ball sweat saturation down to a reasonable level.
We all know the brain is the most important sex organ. I think it's safe to say a woman's mind is more on display than a man's mind normally is. Unless braindead people enjoy sex ... I haven't gotten around to looking around to see if they've conducted that study yet - I guess I was hoping I could get on an internet forum and use a form of informal fallacy and not be called out on it.
... Wait, what have I done.
PS no 'my dong is bigger than a brain' ... we don't care ... or do we? I don't.
Not everything.
Every once in awhile I wonder "wait, that goes all the way down there?" or "What the fuck muscle is that?"
The human body is still a freaking mystery in general. I remember biology classes covering things like the lymphatic system with "We really have no fucking clue what that does."
--
Ronaldo: You really should think of the spine as well when you think of the brain.
You are really good at blowing
my mind. Damn this slippery slope. Then again, slippery slopes come in handy when you're in the bedroom. That is, if your house is built on a hill and you feel like getting from the top of the hill to the bottom in an amusing fashion that mostly utilizes the loss of friction from wet surfaces.
...I'll have what he's having. (Seriously, Ronaldo, are you posting high?)
It seems strange to me that there could be such a variation in nerve/tissue as far as female genitalia goes. I've met women who had nipples that were sensitive enough to be the center of the show, and other women that remarked that stimulating their nipples didn't even arouse them (and yet, other people tell me that getting your nipples pierced somehow heightens their sensitivity, this is - as far as my own knowledge is concerned at this point - hearsay, but I do not wish to give the notion that I know one way or the other, simply to say that I was once told such was true) so I guess I am not -that- surprised that downstairs land is equally ... varied, but I wonder if the 'tissue' existing is really on/off from person to person or if it's merely a matter of tastes/genetics/any other number of possible factors, but this is solely from a standpoint of curiosity and not to beg to differ or detract from your statements at all.