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Would/Could you be a hero? (ITT: How much is your life worth compared to others)
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Recently I started gearing up for a possible career in private security. As in security guards, not ex-SAS hardheads who can't adjust to normal life.
Anyways, in Canada they're passing a few new laws in regards to security and private investigators. As of August, 2008 every PI and security guard needs to be fully trained to their province's standards and in possession of a license. Since nobody will hire me on unless I have a license, I went out and found a place to get my training.
I found a 2 day course at a security firm. The instructor, while nice and personable, was also your stereotypical veteran ex-cop. He didn't have anything good to say about the courts, 911 conspiracies, or certain political parties. Which was fine. I just found it strange that he started the first class with a "find a job that you love, it's the only way to be happy" speech, and ended it with a "you are now an authority figure and everyone will hate you. Also, they'll think you're an idiot." Being a security guard does have that sort of stigma, but I can live with that. I'm thinking about doing it because it looks relatively easy and is becoming very customer service oriented, which I like. Also, the pay is nice, and the benefit packages are great, too.
But I digress. What I really want to talk about is the way he constantly drilled into us that we are not supposed to actually do anything. Like, ever. Our jobs would be as uniformed deterrents, and as extra sets of eyes. You see a crime, you write it down and call the cops. You don't chase people, you don't confront people. That was also fine with me; I'm not risking my life, or anyone else's, over an $.85 chocolate bar, or any other property. As far as I'm concerned, no property or territory is worth any amount of human life.
What I really had a problem with was the topics we got around to right near the end of the second day. Specifically helping people. He told us that it's the police, fire and EMS personnel who are supposed to deal with people in distress, and that we should only act if we really, really have to. For instance, he told us to go out and buy a special tube used to give artificial respiration (mouth to mouth) without having to come in contact with the other person. And that if we didn't have the tube with us then we shouldn't do anything. To illustrate the reasons for this he told us a story:
A man walks out a King St. (one of the main financial districts in Toronto) office tower and collapses on the sidewalk. Nearby people start calling for help, some dial 911. A pair of police officers are patrolling or something not a block away, and when they notice the commotion they come and investigate. They find the man lying on the sidewalk and notice that he's not breathing. Neither of them have their little first aid tubes, so they do nothing and just wait for an ambulance to arrive. When paramedics arrive they load him up and rush to a nearby hospital, where the man is declared DOA. Meanwhile, one of the paramedics confronts the two cops and asks them if they administered mouth to mouth to the man. They both say no, and he tells them that's good news. The man had just lost a fortune on the stock market and used cyanide to commit suicide. If either of the police had tried mouth to mouth they would likely have been killed because the man's lips and mouth were coated in cyanide.
I didn't argue with the guy because I wanted to finish the class and get out of there, but what the hell? That happened once ever, and therefore you shouldn't risk your life to save someone else? I don't buy it. Chasing someone down because they've run off with a pair of shoes under their jacket is stupid, but risking your life to save someone else's? I can't see anything wrong with that. Maybe I'm still naive, but I'd like to think that I'd do something. I'm going to be taking first aid training just in case, and if I get hurt, or even killed, because I tried to save someone else's life then I can live or die with that. Especially when the risks are so small. Running into a burning building, I don't know. But mouth to mouth? In a heartbeat.
What do you think?
Anyways, in Canada they're passing a few new laws in regards to security and private investigators. As of August, 2008 every PI and security guard needs to be fully trained to their province's standards and in possession of a license. Since nobody will hire me on unless I have a license, I went out and found a place to get my training.
I found a 2 day course at a security firm. The instructor, while nice and personable, was also your stereotypical veteran ex-cop. He didn't have anything good to say about the courts, 911 conspiracies, or certain political parties. Which was fine. I just found it strange that he started the first class with a "find a job that you love, it's the only way to be happy" speech, and ended it with a "you are now an authority figure and everyone will hate you. Also, they'll think you're an idiot." Being a security guard does have that sort of stigma, but I can live with that. I'm thinking about doing it because it looks relatively easy and is becoming very customer service oriented, which I like. Also, the pay is nice, and the benefit packages are great, too.
But I digress. What I really want to talk about is the way he constantly drilled into us that we are not supposed to actually do anything. Like, ever. Our jobs would be as uniformed deterrents, and as extra sets of eyes. You see a crime, you write it down and call the cops. You don't chase people, you don't confront people. That was also fine with me; I'm not risking my life, or anyone else's, over an $.85 chocolate bar, or any other property. As far as I'm concerned, no property or territory is worth any amount of human life.
What I really had a problem with was the topics we got around to right near the end of the second day. Specifically helping people. He told us that it's the police, fire and EMS personnel who are supposed to deal with people in distress, and that we should only act if we really, really have to. For instance, he told us to go out and buy a special tube used to give artificial respiration (mouth to mouth) without having to come in contact with the other person. And that if we didn't have the tube with us then we shouldn't do anything. To illustrate the reasons for this he told us a story:
A man walks out a King St. (one of the main financial districts in Toronto) office tower and collapses on the sidewalk. Nearby people start calling for help, some dial 911. A pair of police officers are patrolling or something not a block away, and when they notice the commotion they come and investigate. They find the man lying on the sidewalk and notice that he's not breathing. Neither of them have their little first aid tubes, so they do nothing and just wait for an ambulance to arrive. When paramedics arrive they load him up and rush to a nearby hospital, where the man is declared DOA. Meanwhile, one of the paramedics confronts the two cops and asks them if they administered mouth to mouth to the man. They both say no, and he tells them that's good news. The man had just lost a fortune on the stock market and used cyanide to commit suicide. If either of the police had tried mouth to mouth they would likely have been killed because the man's lips and mouth were coated in cyanide.
I didn't argue with the guy because I wanted to finish the class and get out of there, but what the hell? That happened once ever, and therefore you shouldn't risk your life to save someone else? I don't buy it. Chasing someone down because they've run off with a pair of shoes under their jacket is stupid, but risking your life to save someone else's? I can't see anything wrong with that. Maybe I'm still naive, but I'd like to think that I'd do something. I'm going to be taking first aid training just in case, and if I get hurt, or even killed, because I tried to save someone else's life then I can live or die with that. Especially when the risks are so small. Running into a burning building, I don't know. But mouth to mouth? In a heartbeat.
What do you think?
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Of course, I never had to do it, but I like to think I'm pretty sure as to how I would act.
edit: also, what sort of places would you most likely be providing security for? Malls and department stores and such?
the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
Totally. I think the last thing on my mind would be a stupid plastic tube if I saw someone dying on the ground.
Where would I be? Not sure yet. I'm still waiting for my license to be processed, then I have to wait for placement. The companies I'll be dealing with are all over the place, but they were nice enough to ask for my closest major intersection so that they could find something close to my home. It'll probably be a bank or some retail outlet. Or some night work, which I wouldn't mind at all.
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Yeah, he mentioned that, too. That just makes the tube a good idea. His point was: if you don't have your tube then don't do it.
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The course was mandatory at my high school. A year and a half later, a girl I was spending the night with in an abandoned wing of a building went into cardiac arrest as a result of a drug overdose. The only reason she's alive today is because -- very fortunately for her -- I had randomly gone to a very good school and paid attention when we were learning proper CPR technique.
In an event where I knew what to do, or imagined I knew what to do, I probably would be fairly bullheaded in providing assistance ... just the same, I don't think I would be able to think creatively while in a panic. I wouldn't be focusing on self-preservation, I just don't think that I would be able to focus so coherently on the preservation of others that I would be able to do anything but root myself in thought.
That said, I have a fairly high opinion of the value of my own life, so while I'm willing to go through a certain degree of calculated risk, I WILL calculate that risk. I'm not dying for some random stranger who is most likely someone I wouldn't give a shit about anyways, but I'll stand up to something if I think I can survive it with most of my body parts intact.
Hit the nail on the head.
Everyone thinks they have a "hero complex" until they are actually put in that situation. That's why it's easy for people like the typical ex cop to teach two or three day courses on that kind of stuff. I'm sorry, but the guy teaching it made a lot of good points. People have a hero complex because they have this notion that it's the right thing to do, brought upon by years of movies, media, books, or whatever else you get your entertainment from.
I received a four year degree in criminal studies, with coursework focusing on everything from criminal psychology, basic law, sociology, police procedure, and a wide array of other topics. In that four years never once did I take a class on life saving techniques, or firearm use, or anything else. Even in the academy that's second place to proper investigation and paperwork training.
Unfortunately, an accident in college made it so that I can't be a part of law enforcement on a higher scale other than a beat cop, and it ended any real chances of a military career. That's fine, I've got a lot of computer training to fall back on, and I did, but never the less I didn't just forget what I learned in school.
The fact is, when it gets to a moment, between the life of a stranger or your own life. The vast majority of the population does calculate risk, and that's a good thing. They teach women to yell "fire!" instead of "rape!" when attacked because most people are too scared to face some crazy asshole with a knife if the situation presents it. As sad as it sounds, this isn't a bad thing. There's a reason those plastic tubes were invented, and their use in the field has stopped more cases of disease transmission or choking than I'd ever care to google. A smart person is one who will calculate those risks.
There's nothing wrong with being the brave one. They're needed. They're a balance in the system for those that fall to the far extreme of the other end of the bell curve, the people that WILL kill another human being if they feel a need to. It's also stupid and careless though to go around thinking that every time some asshole pulls a knife or starts a fire you're going to run into a building or at an attacker and think nothing of it. The people that really do that, more than once in a lifetime, are the ones who spend months, even years, getting trained to. The ones that don't, well, they usually only get to do it once in a lifetime, if you catch the meaning.
I wish you the best of luck in your field. I find an inherit nobility in wanting to guard something that belongs to someone else, especially if you agree with the cause. But I'd pay more attention to what your instructor was teaching you and not get delusions of grandeur. If you see someone getting attacked, or a building on fire, call the police or the fire department. They're better trained then you, have better protective equipment, and on top of the inherent danger to your own life, which is JUST as important as anyone else's, you also put the person you feel so dead set on saving at a greater risk by not knowing what you're doing.
Calculated risk is fine. Running into a burning building? I probably wouldn't do that, unless it was someone I knew or the fire wasn't that bad. But mouth to mouth? There's no real risk there, that I can think of.
And about standing back during a medical emergency: Certainly. I'm not trying to get in the way of someone who's more qualified and has more authority than me. But if I'm waiting for EMS or whoever to arrive, I can't even imagine not doing anything just because the person might puke on/in me.
First Aid should be mandatory. Or at least count as a credit or something in high school.
amateurhour: I think you may have missed my point. I do not want to be a hero. I will not chase someone down because they stole some chips or whatever, and I'm not going to try and do things I'm not capable of. If I see something going down I'm going to call the cops and sit it out, which is what we're trained to do, and it's what our employers expect us to do. If I'm on patrol and a bunch of guys are doing some shit, I'm going to get a description and that's it. I'm not even going to tell them to stop.
What I'm talking about is a situation where the risk isn't obvious or implied, but it's still possible. And I'm also not talking about confronting anyone, either. It's strictly a First Aid type of situation, where a first responder might be the difference between life and death.
We were also told about the whole yelling fire thing. I'd heard that before, but I thought it was a myth. I can certainly understand why it exists, and I don't think there's anything really wrong with it. That's a completely different situation, too. If I find someone being attacked or in danger of being attacked I don't know what I'd do. I really don't. I can't fight, that I know of, and I don't really want to. Plus, we're not armed. I think I'd just call the cops and hope, hope, hope they arrive in time. The one positive would be that I'd know the area very well and would be able to give them precise instructions on where to find the crime. It would be some help, at least.
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Thing is though, by making that phone call and not rushing in headfast, you've already done a considerable amount of good in the situation. Every minute the police or fire department can get a head start exponentially increases the chance of saving a life.
I imagine you're an upstanding and loving person, but I can't shake the feeling that 90% of the people that say they'd give mouth-to-mouth until EMS arrived would be much less inclined to do so if the victim was especially poor and/or ugly looking.
I like to think that I'd work things out rationally on a risk/reward scheme, where would risk broken finger to save someone's car, take a mild risk to my life to save someone else's life, and severely risk my life to save many other people's lives... but if it ever came down to it, I imagine I'd be doing little calculating and even less risking. I'm probably a coward at heart
I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
I'll be fine, just give me a minute, a man's got a limit, I can't get a life if my heart's not in it.
Yeah. I'd like to think I'm not like that, but I really don't know. Thing is, ideally I'd like to help, even if I wasn't on the job. If shit ever really hits the fan then I'll find out how I really work, but I can decide what I'd like to do.
And calling for an ambulance (we were told that it's usually the firefighters who do the actual first response medical saving, and the ambulance is just for transport) would be the first thing I'd do, but if help wasn't going to make it on time, well... I don't know.
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kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
That's kind-of-sort-of illegal here. Anyone with first aid training is obliged to offer help, and once you've started helping you can't just up and stop because you're bored or they smell. On the other hand, you're not obliged to risk your life to help anyone, although I'd find it hard to stretch 'I might get puke or blood on me' to 'OMG dead', HIV aside. The tube thing is a really important thing to have, but I wouldn't feel right refusing help if I didn't have one.
At best, you can do the compression part of CPR without the the breathing anyway. Its just not quite as good.
Reading that gave me chills. And then I pictured how far that shit had to fly and felt a little better.
...Ugh.
The best thing we have on the Federal levels are the "Good Samaritan" laws guarding people that do try to help from being held liable for anything that happens as a result of their assistance.
And according to the Good Samaritan law, if you don't have one of those little tubes you can stop giving assistance as soon as you deem it "unsafe" (like if they would puke or start coughing up blood)
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I took a pretty massive first aid course for my hiking, and the nurse teaching us told us about the tube stuff and how in a 'standard' course we would be taught to use tubes only.
Nurse: "But lets be realistic. you're out in the bush. What are the odds you have a tube with you? If we REALLY expected you to only do this if you have a tube, we wouldn't even teach you this stuff. It would be a waste of time."
I was thinking the same thing.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
I would have to say yes. At the very least, it's a risk I'd be willing to take.
And I do plan on getting the tube, and carrying it around when I'm on the job. But if I was ever in a situation where first aid was necessary and I didn't have the tube on me then I think I'd do it anyway. I'd sure as hell want someone to help me out regardless.
Same thing applies for bleeding. Someone's bleeding all over the place, I'm going to try and stop it if I know how. Even if that means I'll get blood all over me and my uniform.
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I dunno. Does it mean I can get some of their stuff?
only seratic (sp?) hepatitis. Hep C, like what tommy lee has, means you can still drink.
of course, I could be mistaken.
I think you are either mangling septic or improperly adjectiving serum(serum hepatits is the b variant we were discussing)
Still, it's one of the few pathogens out there that actually give me much in the way of pause, because it is spread rather easily.
They did. but the bureacratic nonsense of using a tube is still there.
Call 911, make sure that you give accurate information as to where the fire is so that firefighters can get there in a minimum amount of time.
Do anything you can to make sure that anyone still inside the building knows that there is a fire. Bang on windows, doors or whatever and yell a whole damn lot. Walk around the building and check in back if its safe. Be aware of where the fire is and if it is in contact with where the electrical service connects to the building.
Remember that its smoke that more often then not kills people, not the heat or the flames. Even small fires are dangerous if you don't know what the hell you are doing.
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On the security guard thing and not touching - this is still a noble role in my opinion. Sure you are no policeman but imagine how many incidents or events you might stop from happening because you made someone (or their friends) take pause because they see someone in uniform. I know this works, hell, I've been saved at least once by city council supplied street patrollers (they are security guard trained). I was walking down one of the three busiest main streets in my old home town and some guy (drunk or out of it on something) decided to pick a fight with me and my buddy - we were just getting to the point where fists were about to fly and the guards turned up and started talking to the guy and we were able to keep walking on to the pub. All it took were two guys in bright yellow gear to keep me out of a fight.