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Fitness Thread v. 3.0

ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
edited October 2008 in Help / Advice Forum
To begin with, make sure you read this post before you start posting in this thread. If you have obviously not read this post before you started posting in this thread, I'm going to give you an infraction.

Any disagreements in this thread must be argued according to the following standards:
  • Anecdotal evidence and personal observation are completely unacceptable unless you can prove your credentials as a trained and more importantly, experienced individual in the field.
  • Any statements of fact must be verifiable and when challenged, citation must be provided. And calling it an opinion and therefore indefensible only makes me ban you for stupidity.
  • Disagreements must not degenerate to name calling, trolling, or any other non-constructive behavior that irritates me.
  • If your belief/argument/pet theory are challenged, and you cannot provide evidence to support it, while evidence is provided to call it into question, you will likely be asked to drop it. You may not bring it back up later in the thread, and if you persist, you will anger the gods (me).


On to the meat and potatoes:

Recommended Resources


www.bodyforlife.com
www.t-nation.com (good resource, but don't buy anything from them)
http://www.exrx.net (awesome exercise demonstrations)
www.bodybuilding.com (take with a pinch of salt)
Starting Strength

There are two main goals we see here as far as fitness goes. I'm going to be covering the basics for both goals. If you're 98 pounds and 7 feet tall and just looking to put on a bunch of muscle, you can pretty much skip right down to "bulking up," I'm not going to touch on much that will help you in this first section. However, if you're one of those people trying to lose weight, you're definitely going to want to take a look at the bulking up section as well, just skip the part about diet.

Weight Loss

The first goal we generally see is weight loss. There are two primary facets to weight loss: diet and exercise.

Diet

Basically, you're going need to eat less, and eat better foods. No more Big Macs. You're going to want to eat 5-6 small meals throughout the day (with breakfast being the largest, preferably about 1.5-2 times the size of the others), and you're going to want to be getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 1800-2200 calories as an average-height male, and 1600-2000 calories as an average-height female (yes, biologically, females get boned on this one; sorry). You're going to want to try to aim for a variety of foods that gives you a 30/30/40 mix, with 40% of your calories being protein, 30% of your calories being fat, and 30% of your calories being carbs. Keep in mind that protein and carbs are about 4 calories per gram, and fat is about 9 calories per gram, so that's substantially fewer grams of fat than carbs or protein. Also, cut out the fucking soda. It's terrible for you.

Now, if you just go that far, you'll probably have some success. The following is getting a bit more advanced, but is important as far as weight loss and long-term fitness go, and you'll do a lot better following this advice.

Now that we've established what we're doing as far as diet goes in general, we need to establish where we're getting our carbs, fats, and protein from. We'll start with carbs, since as far as weight loss goes, they're the most important. The best thing for you--and where you should be getting the vast majority of your carbohydrates from--are complex carbs. Complex carbohydrates take longer for your body to digest than simple carbohydrates, which means that they give you a longer-lasting boost of energy. In addition, your body tends to use complex carbohydrates as energy, whereas it tends to store simple carbohydrates (starches and sugars) as fat. Most complex carbohydrates come from whole grains (note: this does not mean wheat, but specifically whole grains), and complex sugars, like the type you find in fruits. A good breakfast will include quite a few complex carbohydrates, because that is a great way to start your day, giving your body a big boost of energy early in the morning.

In addition to complex carbohydrates, you want to make sure you're getting at least 25 grams of dietary fiber per day. You don't actually have to count most of this fiber as carbohydrates, because your body doesn't actually consume it. It works as a cleanser for your body; you'll find that you'll lose weight significantly faster when getting your RDA (Recommended Daily Allowance) of dietary fiber than when you're not.

Next, we'll move on to fats. Fats are pretty easy: you want to avoid bad ones, and eat good ones. Bad fats are saturated fats, which cause your cholesterol to go up, and your heart to become clogged, and trans-fats, which pretty much just make you die. Good fats are poly- and mono-unsaturated fats, which are used for muscle-building and nutrients for your body. In addition, there is a type of fat called "omega 3 fatty acids," that are excellent for losing weight; omega 3s are pretty much the best fats out there.

Finally, protein. Protein is the building-block of muscle, so it's important that you're getting enough of it, especially if you're weightlifting as part of your exercise regime. There are different types of protein that you can get from various foods, but generally, the stuff you get from dead animals is the good stuff.

Along with all that, you probably want to start taking a basic, generic multivitamin, to make sure you're getting all the nutrients you need. Women, you need to make sure you're getting enough calcium and iron, especially if you end up cutting a lot of red meat out of your diet.

As far as scheduling goes, as I said in the beginning, the best way to eat is to make a point of consuming 5-6 small meals at approximately evenly-spaced intervals throughout the day. Generally speaking, this means a 500ish-calorie breakfast, and 4-5 200-300-calorie meals throughout the day. Eating 1-2 big meals is about the worst thing you can do, because it tells your body "hey, I'm not eating all that often, so you need to store that energy for later." Your body stores energy in the form of fat, so eating 1-2 meals, even if you're not eating that many calories, will cause you to put on more fat. 5-6 meals a day tells your body "hey, I'm constantly taking in more fuel, keep burning it." The reason breakfast is the largest (and most important) meal of the day is that you just spent 8 hours without eating, and your body needs the extra food to jumpstart your metabolism in the morning. Eat a breakfast of that size even if you're not hungry. Eat those evenly-spaced meals even if you're not hungry. This especially goes for those of you eating 1-2 meals a day now, because your body isn't going to want to eat at the times you're not accustomed to eating.

Some suggestions on what to and not to eat (neither of these lists is exhaustive):

Good Foods & Meals

Whole-wheat tortilla wraps: Lots of dietary fiber, and the carbs are all whole grains, unlike flour tortillas, which are simple starches, and corn tortillas, which are simple sugars. Again, avoid anything with corn in it. You can use these instead of bread for sandwiches (tuna is an excellent choice, but stick to chunk-light if you're going to be eating it more than a couple of times a week) or just make burritos with them, brown rice, and black beans; chicken or fish optional.

White meats: Specifically, chicken, turkey, and fish. Low-fat (and what fat there is is good for you), high-protein meats. This is where you should be getting a lot of your protein from. If you're going to eat bacon, make it turkey bacon. A George Foreman Grill is a college student's best friend when it comes to chicken.

Whole-grain cereals: Essential part of your breakfast. These give you energy to make it through the rest of the day, and should, in addition to the whole grains, give you a bunch of dietary fiber, too. Kashii Go Lean cereal is a favorite on these boards; it's excellent for you, tastes okay, 100% whole grains, a bit of protein, and loaded with dietary fiber. You can find it pretty cheap at Trader Joe's and Raley's/Nob Hill. It goes great with...

Non-fat/1%/2% Milk: That's in order of preference. Personally, I can't stand non-fat, but don't taste a lot of difference between 1% and 2% milk. Do not drink whole milk. Ever. Soy and rice milks are generally loaded with sugars to make them taste good, so most of them should be avoided, too.

Eggs: Lots of controversy over these. Here's the skinny: eggs are awesome for you. We're talking lots of protein plus several vitamins and minerals plus pretty much the best fats you can find (poly- and mono-unsaturated). People talk about cholesterol in them, but saturated fat intake has way more to do with your cholesterol levels than cholesterol intake does, and eating eggs will not appreciably increase this. You also need to eat the yolk; that's where most of the nutrients and fats are. 2 eggs a day is not unreasonable, nor is 3 if you can fit them in. Hard-boiled eggs will keep for about a week pretty easily, so you can do a bunch at a time, and eat them in the morning with a bowl of cereal as a fast breakfast.

Whole Grain Bread: Make sure it's 100% whole grain. This is what you use for your sandwiches.

Olive Oil: This is your oil of choice when it comes to cooking oils. It's loaded with monounsaturated fats, and is one of the best ways to get your HDL cholesterol (that's the good cholesterol, as opposed to LDL cholesterol, which is the bad cholesterol) up.

Vegetables: The more colorful, the better. Carrots, squash, peppers, onions, garlic, broccoli, tomatoes... the list goes on and on. For health purposes, corn and potatoes are not vegetables.

Fruits: Complex sugars, vitamins, and some dietary fiber. These are great for snacking.

Brown Rice: This shit is great, especially if you've got a rice-cooker, and buy a shitload of it at a time. It's ridiculously cheap, too. I like to get it, and buy those packets of tuna steaks, have the tuna over the rice. Delicious.

Lean Pockets: Yes, I'm a shill. The best ones are the "Lean Pockets Whole Grain." The carbs are mostly whole grains, they've got a bunch of protein, and they've even got dietary fiber. 98 seconds in the microwave makes them a really simple meal.

Coffee: Not decaf, actual, honest-to-god coffee. A cup or two a day is good for your heart, and the caffeine helps your energy levels, as well as being a good way to wean yourself off of soda. It's also loaded with antioxidants. If you have stomach problems (like, say, an ulcer, or acid reflux) you probably want to avoid it, but otherwise, it's debatably better for you than tea.

Bad Foods/Meals

Corn: Corn should be avoided at all costs. This means corn chips, corn tortillas, corn in and of itself, regular soda (in the U.S.), and the incredibly vast array of things which you would never consider that contain high-fructose corn syrup (if it says "high fructose corn syrup and/or pure cane sugar," it's the former). This shit is simple sugars, and they pretty much turn straight into fat.

Potatoes: Simple starches. Turns straight into fat. This includes frying them.

Regular Soda: This one is so bad, it bears repeating. The stuff is basically liquid death. It's ridiculously calorie-dense (a single 12oz. can of Coca-Cola contains 130 calories of pure high-fructose corn syrup. The worst part is that your body doesn't even really interpret it as sustenance (it pretty much turns straight into fat, because the sugars are so simple), so it's easy to drink a ton of it. On a 2000-calorie diet, 2 cans of coke is over 12% of your intake for the day, in the form of pretty much the shittiest, most unhealthy calories you can have. If you absolutely can't quit, and replace it with something like coffee, drink diet. If you're drinking enough of it, quitting regular soda alone can cause you to lose weight, without any other dietary changes or exercise. Not to mention that obesity rates in the U.S. are pretty much directly correlated to soda consumption rates. This shit is awful for you.

White bread: Again, simple, processed starches. Pretty much anything with flour in it should be avoided. And yeah, the bun is probably worse for you than the burger at McDonalds.

Candy/cake/cheesecake/chocolate/etc.: This is pretty much a "well, duh."

Eating Out

So, we're mostly 20-somethings and teenagers, here, which means we do a lot of fast food and restaurants. Most fast food places now have all of their nutritional information on their websites. You can make the choice of either eating at relatively healthy fast food places, or sticking to the good stuff on the menu. Sometimes, you have to sort of make up your own good stuff, like going to McDonalds, ordering 2 chicken sandwiches, and throwing away both buns. Taco Bell is actually one of the healthier places when it comes to this, as you can order your meal "fresca style" (though, I've heard this tastes like balls), which makes it healthier, and the healthiest thing on the regular menu (the spicy chicken soft taco) is on the value menu, contrary to most fast food places having the healthiest options cost three times as much as the shitty stuff.


Now, for the second part of our weight loss discussion,

Exercise

This is the second cornerstone to weight loss, and while weightlifting is very helpful (and will be covered a bit later), it isn't, strictly speaking, necessary to weightloss, nor is it as helpful as aerobic or cardiovascular exercise ("cardio" for short). There are many, many varieties of cardio. They key is to get your heartrate up which helps you to burn calories. 20 minutes is generally the minimum amount of time you want to spend at cardio, with 30-40 or longer being preferable. There are several popular methods to take with cardio:
  • Standard Cardio: You start with a slower, less-intense warmup, ramp it up a bit for awhile, then have a cooldown.
  • Hill Training: You start with a slower, less-intense warmup, then slowly ramp it up until about halfway through the exercise, where you're doing some pretty intense workout, then ramp it down again, slowly, all followed by a less-intensive cooldown.
  • Interval Training: There is both low-intensity and high-intensity interval training. Low-intensity interval training is a slower, less-intense warmup, followed by "working" and "resting" periods of cardio, where you turn it up to pretty intense for a couple minutes, then back down to less intense for a couple of minutes, followed by a less-intensive cooldown. High-intensity interval training, the most popular (and arguably most effective) method of cardio is similar, but is usually 2-4 minute "resting" low-intensity periods, punctuated by short, incredibly intense "sprint" periods of about 1 minute, where you push your body as hard as it can go. This is thought to keep your body from getting accustomed to the level of cardio you're doing (as in standard cardio), and getting your heartrate way up for short periods is supposed to give your metabolism a big bost. This is arguably the best cardio to do if you're trying to lose weight.

There are also a variety of different ways to do cardio:
  • Running: The best cardio there is. Running is about as intense as you can get, and will burn calories faster than anything. Unfortunately, if you don't have a good surface to run on, you don't have weather that allows for regular running, you have bad legs/knees/whatever, or you are substantially overweight, running isn't such a good idea (it's pretty much the most high-impact form of cardio there is). However, if the option is there, take it. Running on a treadmill is also an option, but nowhere near as good for you as using a track.
  • Swimming: On the opposite end of the impact spectrum, we have swimming, which is pretty much as low-impact as it gets. Swimming laps is an awesome way to burn calories, but again, unfortunately, that doesn't work for those of us who don't have access to a sufficiently-sized pool, and/or don't have the weather for it.
  • Biking: Biking is pretty low-impact, and can be a lot of fun. If you're going to get into, say, mountain biking, though, it can have high entry costs (bikes are expensive), though stationary bikes are still an option.
  • Elliptical: The low-impact alternative to running. They pretty much have the same advantages and disadvantages of a stationary bike.
  • Stair machine: These are brutal, great exercise, and medium-to-high-impact. It's honestly difficult to do them for a long length of time, but they're very intense. Given the choice between a treadmill and a stair machine, I'd recommend the stair machine.
  • Walking: Medium-impact, if you really can't do anything else, walking is way, way better than nothing.

All that being said, cardio does a whole hell of a lot for your metabolism. You can get away with just adding exercise, or just eating healthier, and maybe lose weight, but the metabolic effects of exercise combined with the health effects of good eating are a much, much better way to lose weight than either of them alone. Together, they are much greater than the sum of their parts. In addition, you should be doing some weightlifting, in order to build more muscle, which will not only further help your metabolism, but make you look better as you lose weight, not to mention the general health benefits, including more energy, reduced likelihood of injury, and stronger bones.


Bulking Up

Diet

Diet for people bulking up is a bit easier than diet for people trying to lose weight. The most important thing is going to be making sure you're getting enough protein; it should be at least 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of lean body weight. This means that if you weight 120 pounds, you're going to want 120-180g of protein per day (that's about 540-800 calories). If you're closer to the ectomorph end of the spectrum (naturally very skinny, not very muscular), you're probably going to need to be eating more food. If you find that you're eating 2500 calories a day, and still not bulking at all in spite of working out, you probably need to be eating 3000-3500 calories a day. Every person is different. The bonus of the ectomorph body type is that you really don't have to worry about putting on fat as much; it's more important for you to worry about getting muscle, so if you want a greasy hamburger, eat a greasy hamburger; eating foods you want is going to make you eat more, and if you want to bulk up, you're going to have to eat more. You're probably going to want to focus on eating meat, but some soy is okay, and if you find that you're having trouble eating enough protein, you should consider using a whey protein powdered shake in order to supplement your diet.

Even for someone who's trying to lose weight, if you're doing weightlifting, one of the things you want to remember is to get a good, protein-rich meal as soon as possible after working out. Within 15 minutes is prime-time (the best-case scenario), but anytime within an hour will help your body to produce more muscle. If you're supplementing your diet with a shake, immediately after your workout is a great time to drink it.

Here is a good weights routine for beginner to intermediate lifters. Beginners might want to start with a 3x10 system, before moving onto 5x5 with heavier weights, which will increase strength gains significantly over the higher rep range. This program uses all of the big compound lifts, is fairly quick, and allows you a little bit of wiggle room for extra exercises. Don't add any isolation arm work until you've been doing it for 6 weeks.

Tube's Exercise Regime For Faggots
Monday

Bench Press 3x10, http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPress.html
Dumbbell Pullovers 3 x 10
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/DBPullover.html
Barbell Deadlifts (conventional stance)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBDeadlift.html
http://www.dieselcrew.com/articles/deadlift101.pdf

Wednesday
Incline Dumbbell Rows 3 x 10
http://www.shapefit.com/middle-back-exercises-middle-back-shrugs.html
Pullups (wide grip overhand) 3 x 10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pull-up_(exercise)
Pullups (Close reverse grip)
Calf Raises 3 x 10
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Gastrocnemius/LVStandingCalfRaise.html

Friday
Barbell Squats 3 x 10
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSquat.html
Standing Military Press 3 x 10
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidAnterior/BBMilitaryPress.html
Whatever isolation work you like
Examples would be barbell/dumbbell bicep curls, tricep extensions, whatever you feel like. If you’re not doing ab work on other days, do them on Friday. Whatever makes you happy.

Ab Work (do after every workout, or on Tuesdays and Thursdays)
Weighted bicycles 3 x 20
http://www.criticalbench.com/exercises/bicycle-crunch.htm
Side Leans 3 x 10
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Obliques/DBSideBend.html
Ball Crunches until you can’t do any more and wish you were dead

If your gym doesn’t have anywhere to do pull-ups, or you can’t do one (really can’t, no being a faggot) do pulldowns. Upgrade to pull-ups as soon as you can, pulldowns are for faggots). Do as many sets as you need to get to thirty, be it six by 5 or whatever. Once you can do 3x10, do it wearing a weight)
If your gym has a calf raise machine, use that. If not, use a barbell. Go heavy, your legs can take a lot of weight.

Tube's Regime For Faggots Mark Two (included in attachment)
Day 1
Bench Press
Pullovers
Pushups
Flies
Tricep Extensions

Day 2
Deadlift
Bent over or seated row (NOT upright row)
Pullups/pulldowns
Chinups/Chindowns (reverse, close grip. Palms facing you)
Barbell curls

Day 3
Squats
Military Press
Hamstring Curl
Calf Raises
Shrugs

Thanatos on
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Posts

  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Space reserved, just in case.

    Thanatos on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited March 2008
    The guy who used the squat rack after me yesterday used my work set weight to warm up :(

    Tube on
  • SolventSolvent Econ-artist กรุงเทพมหานครRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Last thread was awesome. What will this one bring?
    So, after about six months of lifting I think I've put on about seven kilos. Fuck I'm skinny. I just can't give up my precious cardio, I love it too much. Maybe I don't eat enough, I dunno...

    That, and trying to increase weights with dumbells can be damn hard. Especially, I'm finding, shoulder press. I've been stuck on one weight for my db shoulder press and arnold press for what seems like months. I just can't improve it, it is always extremely hard to get the last reps out. Weird.

    Solvent on
    I don't know where he got the scorpions, or how he got them into my mattress.

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  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The guy who used the squat rack after me yesterday used my work set weight to warm up :(

    Some guy who's always at my gym whom I've never seen do deadlifts put 50 pounds less than what I do on the bar and I thought I was awesome. He's a pretty huge guy, built like a linebacker. Then on his next set he added 150lbs. Then, on his next set he added 50 more lbs.

    mastman on
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  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    The other option is to accept your body type and exercise to an extent you enjoy it and it works you - if you're skinny and like cardio, keep your activities cardio based (running, etc)

    1ddqd on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited March 2008
    Accepting your body type is for pussies. If you want to put on weight you have to train accordingly, which means cutting down the cardio.

    Tube on
  • StarfuckStarfuck Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    You should try a 50's day or something CT, to feed your inner masochist.
    A guy that used to go to my old gym showed up at my new one and he brought his chains. I was excited to lift a bit with him, he is a huge fella.

    Starfuck on
    jackfaces
    "If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
    - John McCallum
  • StarfuckStarfuck Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    Solvent wrote: »
    Last thread was awesome. What will this one bring?
    So, after about six months of lifting I think I've put on about seven kilos. Fuck I'm skinny. I just can't give up my precious cardio, I love it too much. Maybe I don't eat enough, I dunno...

    That, and trying to increase weights with dumbells can be damn hard. Especially, I'm finding, shoulder press. I've been stuck on one weight for my db shoulder press and arnold press for what seems like months. I just can't improve it, it is always extremely hard to get the last reps out. Weird.


    When you get stuck on shoulder presses for an extended period of time and increasing food/rest isn't helping out, you may want to take an approach of working the weak point in your lift. This might be difficult when using only DB's, but you'd either want to work the lockout or the start of the lift. If you need to work the lockout, you'll want to find a way to push a heavy weight from about the halfway position. If you need to work the start, push presses would do you well.

    Like I said, it could be more difficult with DB's, but I'd give it a shot. Work them in maybe once a week.

    Starfuck on
    jackfaces
    "If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
    - John McCallum
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Is there a quick way to get rough estimates of body fat? I'm slowing down in the weight loss department, but I'm slowly but steadily increasing the weight I rep with on just about all of my lifts which wasn't happening when I was losing weight more quickly. I figure even if I'm only losing a pound every other week I have to be doing better than that if I'm also adding muscle, but I'll be damned if it's not discouraging to not have any reliable way to track progress when the scale's not moving much and I'd like to have some more reliable method to add to my weekly weigh-in.

    JihadJesus on
  • SoonerManSoonerMan Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Question to anyone.

    In the big post it says that the track is better for you than a treadmill would be. Why is that? I can't really think of any reason. The treadmill makes me go at a certain pace to get my mile in 10 minutes and so I don't become a pussy and start walking or something (once in a great while, usually towards the end, I start holding onto the handles.)

    Asplain.

    SoonerMan on
    Rah, Oklahoma! Rah, Oklahoma! Rah, Oklahoma~! O-K-U!
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    SoonerMan wrote: »
    Question to anyone.

    In the big post it says that the track is better for you than a treadmill would be. Why is that? I can't really think of any reason. The treadmill makes me go at a certain pace to get my mile in 10 minutes and so I don't become a pussy and start walking or something (once in a great while, usually towards the end, I start holding onto the handles.)

    Asplain.
    Ah...because one is actually running and moving all however many pounds of you, and the other is flailing your legs around on a self-propelled rubber belt? It seems that the only thing you prefer the treadmill for is the tracking info, and you could get that from a hear rate monitor with a split timer.

    JihadJesus on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    SoonerMan wrote: »
    Question to anyone.

    In the big post it says that the track is better for you than a treadmill would be. Why is that? I can't really think of any reason. The treadmill makes me go at a certain pace to get my mile in 10 minutes and so I don't become a pussy and start walking or something (once in a great while, usually towards the end, I start holding onto the handles.)

    Asplain.
    Ah...because one is actually running and moving all however many pounds of you, and the other is flailing your legs around on a self-propelled rubber belt? It seems that the only thing you prefer the treadmill for is the tracking info, and you could get that from a hear rate monitor with a split timer.
    Not to mention that you can't grab on to the handles on the track, a track has a corked surface that's easier on your joints, and you have no air resistance on a treadmill.

    Most tracks are some easy multiple of a mile (usually 1/4), so you should be able to observe your progress pretty easily.

    Thanatos on
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    SoonerMan wrote: »
    Question to anyone.

    In the big post it says that the track is better for you than a treadmill would be. Why is that? I can't really think of any reason. The treadmill makes me go at a certain pace to get my mile in 10 minutes and so I don't become a pussy and start walking or something (once in a great while, usually towards the end, I start holding onto the handles.)

    Asplain.
    Ah...because one is actually running and moving all however many pounds of you, and the other is flailing your legs around on a self-propelled rubber belt? It seems that the only thing you prefer the treadmill for is the tracking info, and you could get that from a hear rate monitor with a split timer.

    Well, I can see where SoonerMan is coming from. The treadmill actually keeps me moving at that pace for an extended amount of time.

    Penguin_Otaku on
    sig-1.jpg
  • TheMarshalTheMarshal Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    SoonerMan wrote: »
    Question to anyone.

    In the big post it says that the track is better for you than a treadmill would be. Why is that? I can't really think of any reason. The treadmill makes me go at a certain pace to get my mile in 10 minutes and so I don't become a pussy and start walking or something (once in a great while, usually towards the end, I start holding onto the handles.)

    Asplain.

    True, a treadmill will force you to maintain a fixed pace. However, it's usually loads easier, because you're not exerting as much effort on a treadmill as you would be when running on ground. That moving hunk of rubber is doing a fair amount to fling your feet backwards, so the most effort you're putting forth is in getting your legs forward in order to take another step.

    TheMarshal on
  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So squats... when I do them, I don't feel anything, but I'm sore as hell the next day. Is that a sign I'm doing it right?

    Kilroy on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited March 2008
    If you don't feel squats there is no way you're doing them right. How much weight are you using?

    Tube on
  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    40 lbs, but that was because it was my first time doing them and I didn't want to overload and accidently hurt myself. Should I add more weight and see what happens?

    I'm about 6', 210 lbs, if that helps.

    Kilroy on
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Kilroy wrote: »
    40 lbs, but that was because it was my first time doing them and I didn't want to overload and accidently hurt myself. Should I add more weight and see what happens?

    I'm about 6', 210 lbs, if that helps.
    40 pounds, or bar + 40 pounds?

    Thanatos on
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited March 2008
    Kilroy wrote: »
    40 lbs, but that was because it was my first time doing them and I didn't want to overload and accidently hurt myself. Should I add more weight and see what happens?

    I'm about 6', 210 lbs, if that helps.

    Oh right, 40lbs isn't very much so it's not surprising you didn't really feel it. You were right not to overload, obviously. On your next workout, add weight every set you can easily do until you get to a weight you find challenging.

    Tube on
  • KilroyKilroy timaeusTestified Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    It was 40+bar, Than.

    Thanks Tube, I'll do that next time and see how it goes.

    Kilroy on
  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Is there a quick way to get rough estimates of body fat? I'm slowing down in the weight loss department, but I'm slowly but steadily increasing the weight I rep with on just about all of my lifts which wasn't happening when I was losing weight more quickly. I figure even if I'm only losing a pound every other week I have to be doing better than that if I'm also adding muscle, but I'll be damned if it's not discouraging to not have any reliable way to track progress when the scale's not moving much and I'd like to have some more reliable method to add to my weekly weigh-in.
    If your weight is staying the same while you get stronger, you're replacing worthless fat with awesome muscles. Nice work.

    To get BF %, you could use calipers or a tape measure if you feel like a rough estimate. I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.

    PirateJon on
    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • ThanatosThanatos Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.
    Depending on how big you are, you may just notice it getting looser.

    Thanatos on
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.
    Depending on how big you are, you may just notice it getting looser.
    The pants test is great over the long run but I can't expect to learn much from it week to week because it just doesn't change that fast, and it's nice to have a quicker way of checking in on yourself since it sucks to look back a month down the road and go "Man, I've achieved fuck all over the last month, better do something different". Really it feel like almost all the fat I have left is in the belly and those fucking love handles, so just a tape around the waist might do it I guess.

    JihadJesus on
  • OctoparrotOctoparrot Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Just checked my body comp. this morning (I need to invest in a body fat scale), 7.6%, weighing at 184. I'm going to fight in almost exactly 2 months, and my trainer told me to shoot for under 180. After reviewing their divisions, I see they're divided (only showing the important ones):

    171-185
    186-200

    Anyway, since I'm sort of sitting at a bad location I have the sudden urge to shoot for a stable 178 or so (over 3%), and sweat it out before weigh in. Either that or I can try to bulk up more and stay at the same position.

    Octoparrot on
  • SaniusSanius Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Thanatos wrote: »
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.
    Depending on how big you are, you may just notice it getting looser.
    Oh yeah, I greatly noticed my chest. After working out on that for awhile it just sticks out. Not that I really mind, it used to be where my chest sunk in and my belly stuck out. Now it's the opposite.

    So bellyfat is really annoying. After working my ass off these last few days, i'm on my resting period. I've noticed that my hips are losing a lot of fat. Basically I have lost a lot of my "pear" shape. But my belly has only gotten a bit smaller. D: I'm really trying to get rid of it before the summer. I'm assuming I have enough time if I stick to my 25-30 minutes of cardio/strength training regiment?

    Sanius on
  • PirateJonPirateJon Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.
    Depending on how big you are, you may just notice it getting looser.
    The pants test is great over the long run but I can't expect to learn much from it week to week because it just doesn't change that fast, and it's nice to have a quicker way of checking in on yourself since it sucks to look back a month down the road and go "Man, I've achieved fuck all over the last month, better do something different". Really it feel like almost all the fat I have left is in the belly and those fucking love handles, so just a tape around the waist might do it I guess.

    It doesn't change that fast since YOU don't change that fast. A 1 lb drop in weight is less than 1% of your total bodyweight. You can read this for another datapoint about fat loss.
    http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=14


    If you really want to track it week to week, you can use a moving average with these excel charts and keep an eye on how you trend.
    http://www.fourmilab.ch/hackdiet/www/subsection1_2_4_0_4.html#SECTION0240400000000000000

    PirateJon on
    all perfectionists are mediocre in their own eyes
  • JihadJesusJihadJesus Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    PirateJon wrote: »
    JihadJesus wrote: »
    Thanatos wrote: »
    PirateJon wrote: »
    I don't usually bother with anything beyond the pants test: You should notice your pants get looser in the waist, and tighter in the thighs. Same with shirts - looser around the belly, tighter around the chest and biceps.
    Depending on how big you are, you may just notice it getting looser.
    The pants test is great over the long run but I can't expect to learn much from it week to week because it just doesn't change that fast, and it's nice to have a quicker way of checking in on yourself since it sucks to look back a month down the road and go "Man, I've achieved fuck all over the last month, better do something different". Really it feel like almost all the fat I have left is in the belly and those fucking love handles, so just a tape around the waist might do it I guess.

    It doesn't change that fast since YOU don't change that fast. A 1 lb drop in weight is less than 1% of your total bodyweight. You can read this for another datapoint about fat loss.
    http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=14
    Oh I know that, it's not like I expect to drop an inch of fat around my waist in a week. That's just the weakness of the pants test - it takes a long time to register, so if what you're doing isn't working it takes a long time to notice. And we all want to avoid that, since it's wasted time.

    [Edit]
    Also, why do all fitness, lifting and/or weight loss forums and websites fucking blow? There are only four people who go to them - overweight middle aged women, anorexic teenage girls, roided-up muscle heads, and people who think their free login came with a PhD in physiology. This thread is the only place I can find on the interwebs where there are just some normal guys looking to lift/eat well/lose weight and get in decent non-fatty shape.

    JihadJesus on
  • StarfuckStarfuck Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2008
    That's the nice McDonald forum.

    The real one is much more interesting.

    If you're a bug guy though and lifting and trying to lose weight, you shouldn't approach the weightlifting as a way to get stronger, but to maintain what muscle you have as you drop the weight. It's much better to pick a goal, get big or get unfat and stick with that goal, as trying to do both is going to drive you nuts.

    Starfuck on
    jackfaces
    "If you're going to play tiddly winks, play it with man hole covers."
    - John McCallum
  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    So what I need is a stronger back and chest area - arms are coming along nicely, but I hit a wall doing shoulder/chest work. I use pretty much every machine, but stagger them over the course of a week. I'm careful to watch what groups I'm working and give each group about 6 days worth to recover/rebuild.

    My muscles grew *a bit* but stopped. I've been doing this for about a month. I'm eating over 3000 calories a day (mostly breads/fruits) with a strong dose of alternative vitamins (selenium for one, just can't get enough of those anti-oxidants!). I'm just ... stuck. Any recommendations?

    1ddqd on
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Did the third day of the workout regiment for faggots like me. Man. I didn't believe in it, but I'm going to live by this.

    Also to what starfuck said about being a big guy? Definitely. I've had the wrong mindset approaching this. I've been saying, "I don't need to lift. I just need to run a lot and lose it that way." But I realize that I need to maintain my muscle and build on that and get rid of the fat that way as well.

    Penguin_Otaku on
    sig-1.jpg
  • TubeTube Registered User admin
    edited March 2008
    1ddqd wrote: »
    So what I need is a stronger back and chest area - arms are coming along nicely, but I hit a wall doing shoulder/chest work. I use pretty much every machine, but stagger them over the course of a week. I'm careful to watch what groups I'm working and give each group about 6 days worth to recover/rebuild.

    My muscles grew *a bit* but stopped. I've been doing this for about a month. I'm eating over 3000 calories a day (mostly breads/fruits) with a strong dose of alternative vitamins (selenium for one, just can't get enough of those anti-oxidants!). I'm just ... stuck. Any recommendations?

    Bread and fruits don't contain protein, which is what you need to build muscle. Just using every machine is a bad way to workout, because machines are for girls and paraplegics. Set a program using nothing but free weights, make sure it has squats, deadlifts, bench press and pullups and stick to it. Use the chart in the OP if you want something simple and effective.

    Tube on
  • 1ddqd1ddqd Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Gotcha; I do eat a decent amount of meats, chicken and red meat mostly. However, I'd say have about half the amount of protein intake that the list recommends. Any dietary suggestions to increase the amount? My usual selection of meats includes chicken strips from Raising Canes, sushi (usually only once every 2 weeks), some red meat (steak or a burger, mostly burgers though), and ham sandwiches. Problem is I need a quick way to get the meat, which is why my stuff is usually to-go items.

    1ddqd on
  • Muramasa18Muramasa18 Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Just use a whey protein powder, cheap and easy.

    Muramasa18 on
  • BulbasaurBulbasaur Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Regarding treadmills vs. streets or tracks, I heard from a few people that you can simulate the additional difficulty of running on the streets by setting a treadmills incline to 1%.

    Is there any validity to that? It's relevant to my interest because running outside during the winter is not an option where I live. (Not because of the cold, but the snow and the ice which make the sidewalks and roadsides uneven and treacherous) and as far as I know there aren't any conveniently located tracks in my vicinity.

    Bulbasaur on
    Brawl Code - 0216-0458-2046 | PM me if you've added me.
  • Penguin_OtakuPenguin_Otaku Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    1ddqd wrote: »
    Gotcha; I do eat a decent amount of meats, chicken and red meat mostly. However, I'd say have about half the amount of protein intake that the list recommends. Any dietary suggestions to increase the amount? My usual selection of meats includes chicken strips from Raising Canes, sushi (usually only once every 2 weeks), some red meat (steak or a burger, mostly burgers though), and ham sandwiches. Problem is I need a quick way to get the meat, which is why my stuff is usually to-go items.

    I don't think Cane's is a good idea, man.

    Penguin_Otaku on
    sig-1.jpg
  • Lizz the BlizzLizz the Blizz Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Hey there, H/A

    I have a little question about running. At this point, I'm not really interested in building a great deal of muscle. I may get to that at a later point, but currently I'm just focusing on losing some fat here and there. I hadn't been doing anything resembling regular exercise for years when I started some thing called the "Couch to 5K" running plan. It really got me hooked, and now that I've finished it, I wonder what I can do to increase the weight loss effects.

    I'm pretty sure I've got the diet right at this point, I'm keeping to 1400-1500 calories per day, and eating only fresh foods (lots of fresh fruits/veggies, white meats, whole grain products, etc)/drinking only green tea and water.

    I've been running 5k 3 times every week for a while now, and though it still pushes me hard, I don't get the impression I'm really making any big improvements by skipping a day each time. Would it hurt to start running the 5k daily at this point? Maybe alternate with some interval training/sprints now and then?

    Lizz the Blizz on
  • FatsFats Corvallis, ORRegistered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Bulbasaur wrote: »
    Is there any validity to that? It's relevant to my interest because running outside during the winter is not an option where I live. (Not because of the cold, but the snow and the ice which make the sidewalks and roadsides uneven and treacherous) and as far as I know there aren't any conveniently located tracks in my vicinity.

    Back in cross-country we'd make shoes like these, they work really well. I have heard of using 1 or 2% incline on the treadmill, but I find that I prefer a stationary bike if I'm really stuck indoors.

    Fats on
  • blue powderblue powder Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Right now for biceps I'm only doing hammer curls and 21's, all in one day of the three day cycle and I end up doing thi stwice a week.

    Is this going to build my biceps better than just doign normal bicep curls? I can't lift as much when doing the 21's, obivously.

    For those wondering, 21's is doing 7 reps of half lifts 7 reps of top half lifts then 7 reps of full biceps curls all at once and i do this 3 times. It fucking rips.

    I can only do this with 7.5Kg and that destroys me towards the end, where as i can do 12.5Kg as normal bicep curls.

    blue powder on
  • Matt_SMatt_S Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    I've heard good stuff about 21s, what results have you seen from them? Pretty decent?

    Matt_S on
  • BulbasaurBulbasaur Registered User regular
    edited March 2008
    Fats wrote: »
    Bulbasaur wrote: »
    Is there any validity to that? It's relevant to my interest because running outside during the winter is not an option where I live. (Not because of the cold, but the snow and the ice which make the sidewalks and roadsides uneven and treacherous) and as far as I know there aren't any conveniently located tracks in my vicinity.

    Back in cross-country we'd make shoes like these, they work really well. I have heard of using 1 or 2% incline on the treadmill, but I find that I prefer a stationary bike if I'm really stuck indoors.

    I find that I get a better aerobic workout through the treadmill then with the stationary bike. Since it seems like on the bike the only way to get my heart rate up to a reasonable level without going ridiculously fast is to jack the resistance, but at that point the muscles in my legs begin to limit my workout more then my aerobic capacity.

    Those screw shoes on the other hand look pretty interesting. I think I may have to see if there is any way I can get my hands on a cordless drill.

    Bulbasaur on
    Brawl Code - 0216-0458-2046 | PM me if you've added me.
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