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The Great D&D Programming Project
Nerissa
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
The subject came up in [chat] of pooling the available talent and developing our own little game server for board-type games.
This thread is for those who would like to participate in designing and/or implementing such a thing. For now, the main thing is to see if there are sufficient available resources (human and otherwise) to even try. Once we determine the project is feasible, we can worry about what specific game(s) we would like to start with.
Due to legal issues, we may be unable to actually implement games currently under copyright, but I'm sure with a little research we can find some under public domain, or even make up our own. After all, we're a pretty creative bunch, if the Phallas are anything to go by.
Summary of ideas as of 8am EDT Monday, March 24
Summary of status as of 3pm EDT Wednesday, March 26
ProBoard dedicated to this project so we can divide discussions out with separate threads for each sub-project and keep things a bit more organized
So... what we need: (anyone feel free to suggest additions to the list)
Server space -- at bare minimum an FTP server if we end up with peer-to-peer games, we'll need have them in a central location, but a web / database server would be better
Artists -- We're talking board games here, not FPS or something, I think 2D is where we want to go with this, at least at first
Sound Effects -- For board games, there will probably be a minimum of sound, but it would enhance game play a bit
Programmers -- Once we see what skill sets we have available, we can judge a bit better how we want to proceed in that respect. We'll probably want both web programmers and client programmers.
Ideas -- again, this can wait a bit until we see if we have sufficient resources to actually get anywhere, but feel free to throw some out -- sometimes an idea will intrigue someone who otherwise wouldn't have volunteered.
So, if you are interested in helping, please post your relevant skills. If you have an idea for a game, either post the name (if it already exists and is in the public domain) and some sort of description for anyone who might be interested, or a summary if you've got an idea for something not already under copyright by someone else.
Summary of volunteers so far:
Uh, I guess I seem to have volunteered to be project manager by virtue of simply putting forth the effort to gather volunteers. I can be contacted via this thread, PM here, or e-mail at nerissagoldenrose (at) gmail -- this is not the same e-mail address I have associated with my account here, I'd like to keep the stuff for this project all on one account separate from my every-day e-mails, though, to help keep things organized. You can also IM me if I'm around, usually during the work day (minus long lunch and picking up the kid from school). Check my profile for my various IM handles.
Computing resources (servers & admin)
Art and/or Sound
Programming volunteers with skill self-assessments
Numeric values are on a range of 0 ("not a clue") to 10 ("I use this every day and I'm pretty good at it")
Feel free to suggest any other skills that might be relevant
Ideas
This thread is for those who would like to participate in designing and/or implementing such a thing. For now, the main thing is to see if there are sufficient available resources (human and otherwise) to even try. Once we determine the project is feasible, we can worry about what specific game(s) we would like to start with.
Due to legal issues, we may be unable to actually implement games currently under copyright, but I'm sure with a little research we can find some under public domain, or even make up our own. After all, we're a pretty creative bunch, if the Phallas are anything to go by.
Summary of ideas as of 8am EDT Monday, March 24
Summary of status as of 3pm EDT Wednesday, March 26
ProBoard dedicated to this project so we can divide discussions out with separate threads for each sub-project and keep things a bit more organized
So... what we need: (anyone feel free to suggest additions to the list)
Server space -- at bare minimum an FTP server if we end up with peer-to-peer games, we'll need have them in a central location, but a web / database server would be better
Artists -- We're talking board games here, not FPS or something, I think 2D is where we want to go with this, at least at first
Sound Effects -- For board games, there will probably be a minimum of sound, but it would enhance game play a bit
Programmers -- Once we see what skill sets we have available, we can judge a bit better how we want to proceed in that respect. We'll probably want both web programmers and client programmers.
Ideas -- again, this can wait a bit until we see if we have sufficient resources to actually get anywhere, but feel free to throw some out -- sometimes an idea will intrigue someone who otherwise wouldn't have volunteered.
So, if you are interested in helping, please post your relevant skills. If you have an idea for a game, either post the name (if it already exists and is in the public domain) and some sort of description for anyone who might be interested, or a summary if you've got an idea for something not already under copyright by someone else.
Summary of volunteers so far:
Uh, I guess I seem to have volunteered to be project manager by virtue of simply putting forth the effort to gather volunteers. I can be contacted via this thread, PM here, or e-mail at nerissagoldenrose (at) gmail -- this is not the same e-mail address I have associated with my account here, I'd like to keep the stuff for this project all on one account separate from my every-day e-mails, though, to help keep things organized. You can also IM me if I'm around, usually during the work day (minus long lunch and picking up the kid from school). Check my profile for my various IM handles.
Computing resources (servers & admin)
- iTunesIsEvil (maybe servers)
- Satan. (servers)
- amateurhour (admin)
Art and/or Sound
- JamesKeenan
- amateurhour
- MikeMan
- piL
Programming volunteers with skill self-assessments
Numeric values are on a range of 0 ("not a clue") to 10 ("I use this every day and I'm pretty good at it")
Feel free to suggest any other skills that might be relevant
Ideas
- EmperorSeth
- Tomanta
- Wonder_Hippie
- ege02
- hesthefastest
- Medopine
- Tofystedeth
- Loren Michael
- Spawnbroker
- Quid
Nerissa on
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I'm primarily a VB6 programmer, I can muddle through C, I have done some Perl (guild web site / interactive roster system plus installing and customizing UBB forum modifications), but it was quite a while ago. I'm just now learning Java / J# and .NET. I'm passable working with XML and SQL, as well as HTML.
Also, I love a challenge and anything that lets me learn new programming tricks.
Also I'm totally up for trying something new and using Python w/ Pygame. It looks like a hell of a lot of fun.
That could be good. I'd also toyed with the idea of an IRC-based client that can connect to a particular channel of a public IRC server, and implement all of the communication between clients as pre-defined IRC messages.
I did concept and system programming work for the Harvest Moon Online fan project as well a few years back (C++), but that was relegated to the game system and functions and not the client/webserver netcode. I'm not really confident doing netcode from scratch.
I prefer organic, top-down solutions ... the downside of this is that it's usually very inefficient, but the upside is that the approaches are very easy to grok and advances in processing power make the inefficiency a moot point in most situations.
A little, I'd like to stay in practice.
I'm mostly a .NET developer with C# being my language of choice. I can make my way through C++ if I must (boooo memory-management), and I've got a decent amount of Java experience as well. Most of my work is client-side development now, but I've written most of my company's server-side code as well. It's client-server database stuff. Nothing really uber-fancy.
I'd be more than happy to dedicate what I can web-server wise, but would need to know what kind of space and bandwidth we're talking about. My site does diddily-crap, so I've probably got plenty of both though.
EDIT: Okay actually you wouldn't need a regex parser. And on second thought maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, or what the nature of this application is. But it seems like an unnecessary step to me.
I'm a C++/C# programmer primarily, as it's what I focus on day to day. I've also worked with VB6/VB.Net, Java, Python, etc, etc. On the web side, I have some javascript knowledge, HTML, and PHP. I might have a web server available if necessary. Most of my programming knowledge is not in the game/graphics development side of things though, not that I haven't programmed a few before.
Oh, and I have programmed an IRC game in Java before, but that was ~4 years ago now. It was just a simple text Blackjack game.
I'm not too sure what my time outlook is, but I can help some if need be.
I also do some programming, but I already program at work, so I don't know how much time and/or enthusiasm I have for also doing it as a hobby.
From the chat thread, I think that while a browser based client is certainly the best experience there is a massive amount of money and time investment there. Also would need to add a Database server to the list of requirements under Server Space in the OP.
For client dev it depends on the game. For most board games WPF is actually an awesome platform. It's library of controls and their flexibility are hands down the best available on any platform in any language. Course it's not really designed for "games" dev but turn based board games are a bit outside the mainstream of what games platforms like XNA or OpenGL are desinged for anyway.
Certainly not an original thought but it is especially clear in this genre that a game is just a database with a fancy UI. WPF offers awesome tools for displaying and manipulating data. What it lacks is good 3d support (it has some really basic 3d capability but definetly not something you would use in a game engine).
Edit: Forgot the important bit. If there arises a design that interests me, does not obviously infringe on someones IP and is acheivable with the resources available I would certainly be willing to help code.
You bring the code etc. and I'll bring the servers.
The bad news is I've only been working with databases for a few weeks and haven't worked with internet protocols.
3D isn't exactly a requirement for board games. Sure, the games would look better with 3D buildings and animations and all, but really for board games 2D is enough. So given the choice between a quick and easy tool that limits us to 2D or a hard and complicated tool that gives us 3D capabilities, I know I'd vote for the 2D one.
EDIT: Also, thanks Nerissa for picking up the idea.
I think the system should work like Facebook's Scrabulous games. Players log in when they have time and play their turns in the games they have going on. Since we're a very diverse group, living in different time zones all over the world and with different family and professional obligations, I think this would be most convenient for everyone.
The alternative of course is a real-time system, which requires that all players be logged in and play the game at the same time. The advantage of that system is that the games are played right away, when you feel like playing, and are not dragged on for weeks or months. But that advantage can be replicated in the Scrabulous model, if all players are logged in at the same time.
[edit]: I'd also be up for working on Sound Effects since it'd be the only way I could contribute really, since I have no servers or coding skills.
I imagine ideas will come from everyone, though of course I have my own.
I'm good with C#, Java, VB.Net, Flash/ActionScript, Ruby and Python as far as programming languages go.
RiemannLives - I don't really think there will be a money investment, unless Nerissa is secretly the founder of your employer and wants to pay us all to do this
Also, you're right that WPF is the new hotness (and we could use LINQ! glee!), but it's worth considering that that limits participants to the Windows platform. I'm not sure how many Mac/Linux folks we have here but it seems to me that for a hobbyist project like this, keeping the end product as open and portable as possible would be nice.
It sounds like a fun project, I hope something neat comes of it whether you have any need of me or not.
But still toss myself out as a developer / idea person / maybe writer. Have a Comp Sci degree and have done some programming off and on the last few years, primarily C#. Done a little bit with databases and XML. Actually working on a personal project for Decipher's Star Wars CCG right now (collection/deck manager maybe extending into online table, THEN maybe extending into computer AI. I'll never get that far).
Not against learning / brushing up on a different language.
I know Java and HTML, I can flub my way through C#, and I wouldn't mind leaning a new language if need be.
If there are already to many programmers I would be down with helping with sounds
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Well, if we get too many programmers, there's nothing saying we can't divide into teams and work on more than one game in parallel.
I suspect there will be legal issues with that... if you can either show it's public domain or obtain the appropriate permission, we can add it to the list.
You're right that it means each client would have to be maintaining game state, but I wasn't sure we would be able to get a server to host games, so I wanted to keep options open for peer-to-peer as well.
Game commands wouldn't necessarily have to be regex, it could be any format we could come up with I've spent the better part of the past 10 years coming up with ways to get airline reservations to convey information that the airline's system was never designed to convey in ways that were recognizable / readable by both humans and software and that the humans are unlikely to mess up... if I don't have to worry about humans, it gets easier.
But yeah, it was just a random thought on the "if we have to go p2p" line, if Satan. or someone else has enough server power for us, it won't be an issue.
I say four teams of five to seven coders, and a few art and sound people.
Is there any majority vote on what game is being made here?
edit: my ideas:
1) Card games, always fun. Any game with a betting system would be great.
2) JRPG tactics battle game, or like a battlechess type of game. Classes, weapons, the taking of land, the whole shebang.
3) PHALLA game. Everyone connects to the server, makes an avatar with the character creator, and registers for one of many games. You have boxes to vote or use your skills based on a login timer, and a little box to make comments to suspect others of being the killer. It would take a lot of confusion out of playing in forums.
I'd thought about Phalla, but wasn't sure how to go about it in such a way as to allow all the comments & interaction without implementing a good section of a forum, complete with private messaging, which seemed rather daunting when we already have an infrastructure in place here. (On the plus side, with such a significantly smaller user base, we could have a larger PM box.) However, with some variations, it could be a launching point for designing something workable. Anyone want to start tackling the design?
I am pretty sure I got everyone who has posted so far... if I missed you, or if you would like to be in lists other than the ones I put you in, let me know.
Also, if you decide you haven't got the time or interest to continue PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let me know ASAP. If we start out on 4 projects and lose half our team, we'll have to decide whether to continue with slower progress on all 4 or to put some on the back burner to get others done faster. However, we do need to know if you can't / don't want to continue so we can make the appropriate decisions.
Well, even legal issues aside there are already good Catan clients available. Would seem odd to build something when we can already play it.
When 20 people volunteer for a project usually between 0 and 1 of them actually write any code.
In general I didn't mean "money" by "nescessary resources". Most of the needed resources are skilled work-hours.
That aside, any project that involved one or more dedicated servers will eat up cash. Servers need maitenence (especially databases) and bandwidth is never free.
Yeah. Just doing a Google search for "settlers of catan online" returns a ton.
1) We can have all the games we want in one place, rather than signing up on and constantly checking several different websites.
2) We can play against each other rather than stragers.
3) We can implement the features we want.
Another question is, if we don't implement a known board game, what do we do? Do we create our own new board game?
If someone comes up with a good design doc that would be the best possible case IMO. DMCA takedown orders when you have spent a lot of time and effort on a project suck. Look at what happed to those guys who recently got shut down for making that awesome implementation of the Space Hulk board game.
Also, just as an aside, Nerissa and Riemmann, asking people if they will drop out or not is all well and good, but this is the internet, and the PA forums at that. I would say a good rule of thumb is to outright assume 25% or more people will drop out and/ or not have enough interest, and set up redundancies that will cover the worst case scenario.